Scottish Rock Garden Club Forum

Bulbs => Crocus => Topic started by: Thomas Huber on October 01, 2009, 10:58:00 AM

Title: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Thomas Huber on October 01, 2009, 10:58:00 AM
Some photos from my rockgardens:

04: Crocus mathewii, the soft blue throated form, received as mathewii Albus
05: the dark blue throated mathewii
09: Crocus gilanicus from Iran
16: C. asumaniae, next relative to C. mathewii has done well in the open garden
08: C. hadriaticus from Anne W. Meanwhile we found, that this form was formerly named as h. saundersianus.
48: Closeup of a beautiful hybrid between C. speciosus and pulchellus
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Thomas Huber on October 01, 2009, 11:03:31 AM
13+35: Still not many crocus out here, but nevertheless the photographer found some nice angles for an overview photo:
18: Crocus nudiflorus flowering between this beautiful Campanula alsinoides Alba, grown from FH-seeds
08: C. niveus, a good blue form ex Schnabel-nursery
14: C. boryi, flowering well this year, not only for Janis and Tony
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: ashley on October 01, 2009, 12:56:10 PM
Some photos from my rockgardens:
...  08: C. hadriaticus from Anne W. Meanwhile we found, that this form was formerly named as h. saundersianus.

Great photos Thomas, and your weather and gastropods are obviously cooperating ;D

Googling tells me that the distinguishing characteristic is a 'richly-coloured violet base' for (what was formerly known as) var. saundersianus & 'a yellow throat feathered at the base with reddish lines' for var. chrysobelonicus.  Is this difference reasonably clear in practice would you say?

Anyway a lovely thing 8)
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Paul T on October 01, 2009, 01:18:06 PM
Wonderful to see your Crocus again Thomas.  I love that blue niveus.  That species has such a nice form, and with the blue shading it definitely adds another note to it.  Thanks for the pics.
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Thomas Huber on October 01, 2009, 01:56:27 PM
Ashley, Neustadts gastropod doesn't need to be gastropod anymore - he has a rotatable display now  ;D

Re hadriaticus saundersianus and chrysobelonicus we already had one or two discussions here on the forum, without getting a reasonable answer. Both names were given by Herbert in 1847 - in a time when only a few hadriaticus were in cultivation. Meanwhile lots of collections were made and the whole variability of hadriaticus lead to the conclusion, that both names are invalid now. Wild hadriaticus populations are mixed with all kinds of throat colour (white, yellow, purple like in saundersianus) and flower colour from white to blue and even striped or feathered forms.

So Annes plant is "just" one wonderful dark throated variant of the whole hadriaticus complex.
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: mark smyth on October 01, 2009, 02:30:12 PM
October already!  :o

I'm assuming my skinny asumaniae is wrong when comparing it to Thomas' flowers
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: tonyg on October 01, 2009, 02:47:31 PM
Its variable Mark.  Check the sytle to be sure but it looks like it is C asumaniae to me.
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: mark smyth on October 01, 2009, 02:56:04 PM
THanks Tony.

Next query is how variable is pulchellus? Most of mine a pale except for these intense coloured forms

I've just added a side by side comparison
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Janis Ruksans on October 01, 2009, 03:47:45 PM

Next query is how variable is pulchellus? Most of mine a pale except for these intense coloured forms

I've just added a side by side comparison


Both (assumaniae and pulchellus) are quite variable. Both looks true. Brian Mathew even expressed opinion that possibly would be worth to join pallasii and assumaniae and even mathewii under common name. Seeing how variable are petals of pallasii no wonder that similar can be with assumaniae, too.
Janis
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: mark smyth on October 01, 2009, 03:59:20 PM
Thanks Janis
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: mark smyth on October 01, 2009, 05:02:59 PM
1. This was obtained in August as goulimyi leucanthus white form. Shouldn't it simply be goulimyi 'Alba'?

2. Because of their height I'm thinking my pulchellus Alba is speciosus Alba

3. nudiflorus with pale style from a friend's garden

4. serotinus 'Gwendoline Edwards'. Very poor last year with tiny flowers but lovely this year.
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Janis Ruksans on October 01, 2009, 06:00:45 PM
1. This was obtained in August as goulimyi leucanthus white form. Shouldn't it simply be goulimyi 'Alba'?
2. Because of their height I'm thinking my pulchellus Alba is speciosus Alba

There are no sharp line between typical goulimyi and var. leucanthus and I would prefer to regard it as goulimyi albus.
Yours pulchellus looks more as speciosus albus (anthers are yellow, in pulchellus white), but possibly it is hybrid. Typical speciosus cultivar bringing name 'Albus' has pointed flower segments. See attached picture.
Janis
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Sinchets on October 01, 2009, 06:06:17 PM
Okay mental note as I change my watch- only 30 days in September...
Looks like it has been a lovely sunny start to the month across much of Europe.
Flowering here in the sunshine today:
Crocus speciosus
Crocus banaticus
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Gerry Webster on October 01, 2009, 06:09:35 PM
Crocus niveus

From Archibald seed (pop ref 348.806) ex a  D. Hoskins coll., Greece, Lakonia, N of Pirgos Dirou.
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: mark smyth on October 01, 2009, 06:19:00 PM
Thanks Janis.

Here is a wider shot. I checked outside and see all have rounded tips
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Oron Peri on October 01, 2009, 06:33:33 PM
1. This was obtained in August as goulimyi leucanthus white form. Shouldn't it simply be goulimyi 'Alba'?
2. Because of their height I'm thinking my pulchellus Alba is speciosus Alba

There are no sharp line between typical goulimyi and var. leucanthus and I would prefer to regard it as goulimyi albus.
Yours pulchellus looks more as speciosus albus (anthers are yellow, in pulchellus white), but possibly it is hybrid. Typical speciosus cultivar bringing name 'Albus' has pointed flower segments. See attached picture.
Janis

Janis

Maybe the fact that Gulimyi leucanthus grows in large numbers in the wild ranked it as a var. level and differs it from The 'Albus,Album, Albidum' that are given to few plants that rarely or very rarely appear Albino.
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: ashley on October 01, 2009, 06:48:40 PM
Fine niveus Gerry 8)
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Michael J Campbell on October 01, 2009, 07:00:12 PM
Crocus tournefortii, coll. Isle of Skiros.
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Hristo on October 01, 2009, 08:11:32 PM
I'll second Ashley, very nice C.niveus Gerry, and all the better for being seed grown.
We have seed from this collection but they had to wait to be sowed so no flowers
yet, but thanks for the preview, hope ours will look as good!

Hi Michael. super shot of your C.tournefortii!
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Lesley Cox on October 01, 2009, 08:57:35 PM
All are lovely as always but the lilac forms of C. niveus especially so. The two batches I've bought as niveus lilac form have both turned out white. I'll keep trying though. Can't have too many, whatever the shade.
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Gerry Webster on October 01, 2009, 09:00:07 PM
Ashley & Chris - Thanks, I like it too. Jim Archibald says that this coll. has "pastel lilac pinks" as well as bicoloured forms. All mine are the latter. Chris, if you get the pinks, it would be interesting to see.

Michael - great photo of C. tournefortii, in my opinion the most beautiful Autumn crocus.
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Gerry Webster on October 01, 2009, 09:16:24 PM
1. This was obtained in August as goulimyi leucanthus white form. Shouldn't it simply be goulimyi 'Alba'?
2. Because of their height I'm thinking my pulchellus Alba is speciosus Alba

There are no sharp line between typical goulimyi and var. leucanthus and I would prefer to regard it as goulimyi albus.

Janis
Janis
Maybe the fact that Gulimyi leucanthus grows in large numbers in the wild ranked it as a var. level and differs it from The 'Albus,Album, Albidum' that are given to few plants that rarely or very rarely appear Albino.
It seems that C. goulimyi leucanthus( from collections made near Monemvassia) was originally given subspecific rank for no good reason that I can see. I agree with Janis that even varietal status is dubious - it seems to be simply an albino form of C. goulimyi. However, it is certainly different to the cultivar 'Mani White' (which arose in cultivation).
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: tonyg on October 01, 2009, 09:48:34 PM
I have also formed the same opinion.  I originally thought that there was believed to be geographical separation of ssp leucanthus.  As I have not observed them in the wild I can only repeat what I have heard from other travellers - that pale or white forms occur in most areas of the distribution of Crocus goulimyi.  If so the distinction is hardly worth subspecific rank.  That said, the very pale often slightly bicolored forms are very attractive and it is useful to have a name to distinguish them by.

One observation of my own which might counter the above argument:  I have now raised Crocus goulimyi leucanthus from seed a number of times.  I have had seed from wild plants and also raised 2nd generation plants from these.  They have always bred true, all very pale or white flowered.  There has not yet been a single lilac flowered offspring.  This suggests some kind of genetic stability.
 
Seed that I received of C goulimyi 'Main White' which arose from cultivated stocks of Crocus goulimyi (lilac flowered) bred all lilac flowered plants at the first generation.  The 2nd generation gave around 20% white flowered plants.  Ian Young has observed similar behaviour in seedlings of white forms of Crocus nudiflorus.

So, does the stability of the 'white gene' in ssp leucanthus support the rank it is given?   ... Hopefully someone  with 'the knowledge' can advise.
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: ashley on October 01, 2009, 10:15:23 PM
Ashley, Neustadts gastropod doesn't need to be gastropod anymore - he has a rotatable display now  ;D

Re hadriaticus saundersianus and chrysobelonicus we already had one or two discussions here on the forum, without getting a reasonable answer. Both names were given by Herbert in 1847 - in a time when only a few hadriaticus were in cultivation. Meanwhile lots of collections were made and the whole variability of hadriaticus lead to the conclusion, that both names are invalid now. Wild hadriaticus populations are mixed with all kinds of throat colour (white, yellow, purple like in saundersianus) and flower colour from white to blue and even striped or feathered forms.

So Annes plant is "just" one wonderful dark throated variant of the whole hadriaticus complex.

Thanks for this clear explanation Thomas.  Yes once 'species' are recognised as a complex it becomes meaningless to try distinguishing forms except in very broad terms.

Tony, your observations on genetic stability seem to me to support the taxonomic status of goulimyi var. leucanthus.
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Gerry Webster on October 02, 2009, 12:19:11 AM
I have also formed the same opinion.  I originally thought that there was believed to be geographical separation of ssp leucanthus.  As I have not observed them in the wild I can only repeat what I have heard from other travellers - that pale or white forms occur in most areas of the distribution of Crocus goulimyi.  If so the distinction is hardly worth subspecific rank.  That said, the very pale often slightly bicolored forms are very attractive and it is useful to have a name to distinguish them by.

One observation of my own which might counter the above argument:  I have now raised Crocus goulimyi leucanthus from seed a number of times.  I have had seed from wild plants and also raised 2nd generation plants from these.  They have always bred true, all very pale or white flowered.  There has not yet been a single lilac flowered offspring.  This suggests some kind of genetic stability.

 
Seed that I received of C goulimyi 'Main White' which arose from cultivated stocks of Crocus goulimyi (lilac flowered) bred all lilac flowered plants at the first generation.  The 2nd generation gave around 20% white flowered plants.  Ian Young has observed similar behaviour in seedlings of white forms of Crocus nudiflorus.

So, does the stability of the 'white gene' in ssp leucanthus support the rank it is given?   ... Hopefully someone  with 'the knowledge' can advise.

I seem to remember postings on this Forum showing that the plants at Monemvassia are not all white-flowered. However, Jim Archibald describes "var. leucanthus", derived from a Steve Keeble collection, as "evenly & consistently white-flowered" & plants I have raised from seed produced by  his cultivated stock have all been white. So it seems the albinism is stable. I don't know what the criteria are for ascribing either subspecific or varietal status (& it is too late to look it up)  but maybe one or the other is justified after all.
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Alex on October 02, 2009, 07:58:03 AM
Thomas,

Great pictures - I'm impressed that you are growing such great plants outside - do you give C. gilanicus much extra attention in the rock garden? Is it uncovered all year round?

Alex
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Thomas Huber on October 02, 2009, 08:37:22 AM
Alex, my gilanicus grow outside since 2006. So far without trouble, except some losses in the last, very hard winter (-24°C). It is planted under a hazelnut bush which gives some protection from heavy rainfalls and additionally dries the soil in summer. All my tender plants are planted under shrubs while the "better" species are planted in the open. Both in sandy soil, just given some compost in summer.
By the way: In their natural habitat they also grow "outside"  ;D The plants always look better in the garden than in pots.

Re goulimyi / leucanthus I found, that all the plants I have as leucanthus have very dark sheeting leaves, while the ssp goulimyi plants have white or only soft spotted ones.
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Paul T on October 02, 2009, 08:58:47 AM
Crocus niveus

From Archibald seed (pop ref 348.806) ex a  D. Hoskins coll., Greece, Lakonia, N of Pirgos Dirou.

Beautiful, Gerry.  I love the side shot with the two colours to the petals, and the bright style poking out.  Gorgeous!!
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Sinchets on October 02, 2009, 09:03:03 AM
By the way: In their natural habitat they also grow "outside"  ;D The plants always look better in the garden than in pots.
Hurrah!  ;D
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Janis Ruksans on October 02, 2009, 09:36:45 AM
After yesterdays snow, hail, rain all the night - morning greated with moderate frost and clean blue sky. A lot of pictures but I must hurry to visit Lithuania an so only 1 picture at moment, more tomorrow evening.
Janis
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: mark smyth on October 02, 2009, 09:42:41 AM
My goulimyi leucanthus has green sheaths
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Luc Gilgemyn on October 02, 2009, 10:17:19 AM
Great pix everyone !!!
Thomas, your rock garden looks fabulous.. and it's only starting.  8)
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Janis Ruksans on October 02, 2009, 10:44:20 AM
Still have few minutes till comes car to pick up me and I'm using those for few more pictures, Today I made picture (a little helped with opening of flower) of inside of this crocus grown as seedling of cartwrightianus CEH-613 (see September entry). Interesting that mother plants and other corms in this pot only started to show noses. It looks quite nice and I marked it for seperating. On another - form of C. kotschyanus leucopharynx which I got this autumn from Dirk. (Dirk, many thanks!). It is very different from form grown under name leucopharynx in my youth. The last form still didn't come up. And the last - one of most georgous autumn crocuses - C. robertianus.
Janis
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Gerry Webster on October 02, 2009, 10:45:24 AM
Janis - very interesting to see C. hadriaticus 'Dodona' - the shape is very distinctive. I presume this is from the Antoine Hoog collection (AH8690)?

By the way, & in relation to the discussion of Herbert's varieties of C. hadriaticus, var. saundersianus was said to have come from Dodona. 
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Janis Ruksans on October 02, 2009, 10:56:31 AM
Gerry, hadriaticus Dodona comes from Antoine and several others of his named varieties.

Now 3 more pictures. In September I showed white pallasii from Crimea. Today sun opened this flower and you can see inside. Next is traditional purple form of subsp. pallasii from Crimea. And the last - pulchellus hybrid ZEPHYR ( I can't to distuingish it from Leonid's speciosus LATE LOVE.)
Janis
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Thomas Huber on October 02, 2009, 11:28:45 AM
And the last - pulchellus hybrid ZEPHYR ( I can't to distuingish it from Leonid's speciosus LATE LOVE.)
Janis

Janis, the photo on Leonids website shows clearly a plant with yellow pollen - not white as in Zephyr.
The throat in 'Late Love' looks white, not yellow.
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Thomas Huber on October 02, 2009, 11:29:14 AM
My goulimyi leucanthus has green sheaths

Mark my photo is made from plants I received from you in 2005
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Thomas Huber on October 02, 2009, 11:29:54 AM
Great pix everyone !!!
Thomas, your rock garden looks fabulous.. and it's only starting.  8)

Luc, I hope you are right - if that's all I have a big problem  :-\
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Boyed on October 02, 2009, 11:58:57 AM
And the last - pulchellus hybrid ZEPHYR ( I can't to distuingish it from Leonid's speciosus LATE LOVE.)
Janis

Janis,
Even without observation of pollen and throat colours, 'Zephyr' is quite easy to distingush from 'Late Love'. 'Zephyr' is much vigorous, rather large and has very beautiful flower shape, whlile 'Late Love' has modest look, smaller and its shape of blooms is not as perfect as 'Zephyr's'. Besides, 'Zephyr' is extremely floriferous. I consider it as the best autumn garden crocus.

I showed comparison pictures in Crocus Sptember 2009 thread (page 23).
http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=4099.msg111465#msg111465
You can also notice that 'Zephyr' has longer pistils.
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: mark smyth on October 02, 2009, 12:20:12 PM
I had spare Crocus in 2004!? Are they as supplied?

I said in September that Leonid's web site shows either correct photos but supplies wrong corms or correct corms and wrong photos
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Boyed on October 02, 2009, 12:33:21 PM
Mark,
I always has suspections about what you said.
In Leonid website crocus 'Late Love' (photo below) has very pale lavender colour. Mine were always greyish-white, even having somewhat different flower shape; and they've never shown even a slight lilac tint.  But one thing is clear - crocus 'Late Love' looks radically different from 'Zephyr'

Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Gerry Webster on October 02, 2009, 12:57:36 PM
Crocus thomasii

From Archibald seed (pop. ref. 342.802), supposedly C. cartwrightianus. After a number of mishaps only two bulbs survive from this sowing. That shown here is not C. cartwrightianus.  I think it is probably C. thomasii  - as can be seen the style divides at the base of the anthers.
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: mark smyth on October 02, 2009, 01:06:24 PM
Boyed your 'Late Love' has yellow pollen -adding - I see you have Leonids photo. Mine have white so I will relabel mine as pulchellus. My new policy is to write the name of the supplier on my labels but for some reason I didnt write it on my ?'Late Love'. Is Leonid the only supplier?
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Luc Gilgemyn on October 02, 2009, 01:14:37 PM
Whatever the name, it's a little beauty Gerry !!
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Boyed on October 02, 2009, 01:31:42 PM
Boyed your 'Late Love' has yellow pollen -adding - I see you have Leonids photo. Mine have white so I will relabel mine as pulchellus. My new policy is to write the name of the supplier on my labels but for some reason I didnt write it on my ?'Late Love'. Is Leonid the only supplier?

Mark,
Yes, indeed. Yours also have longer pistils and much resemble 'Zephyr'
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: udo on October 02, 2009, 03:54:33 PM
Great shots from all.
Here a cross from hadriaticus x sativus 'Cashmerianus'.
The F1 hybrid with yellow anthers and set good seed.
First flower from F2 in this autumn with white anthers  :-*.
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Hristo on October 02, 2009, 07:03:53 PM
Gerry,
Will without doubt post pictures when they flower, all the exxcitement of growing from seed!
Again your thomasii is a super specimen, and, once again we have this species as 1 year old corms from seed purchased from Monocot ( coll. Italy not Croatia? )  in 2005 sowed in 2007 and germinated autumn 2008! Flowering 2011,2012?????
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Lars S on October 02, 2009, 08:26:20 PM
I agree, that thomasii looks fabulous Gerry !  :)

Lars
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: ian mcenery on October 02, 2009, 10:28:45 PM
Great shots everyone here is my tournefortii in the garden and just starting
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Armin on October 02, 2009, 10:30:52 PM
Super start into October!
Great species pictures from everybody.
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Hagen Engelmann on October 03, 2009, 08:49:08 AM
Your Crocusworld in October looks phenomenal and especially the pics of Janis`s DODONA and Ian`s C. tournefortii show the plants in best light.
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: tonyg on October 03, 2009, 09:40:56 AM
Posted in a new thread but repeated here.  Can you help?
Dear Tony- I am looking to film Crocus sativus for the Christmas special of the series and wondered if you knew anywhere we could film this plant flowering in a garden setting? I would be most grateful for any help you could offer.
Thanks very much
Michael Kerr

Michael Kerr dip. Hort (Kew)

Horticultural Researcher

‘Grow Your Own Drugs’

Silver River TV

0207 907 3438

 
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Hagen Engelmann on October 03, 2009, 10:06:43 AM
A little step into the crocusworld, Crocus vallicola with fine purple lines and yellow yellow spots. Thomas, my C.v blooms now. - I meant double spots ;)-
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Eric Locke on October 03, 2009, 08:06:16 PM

Some Autumn beauties from my garden today.
Crocus Banaticus
Crocus Goulimyi var Leucantha

Eric
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Anthony Darby on October 03, 2009, 08:47:01 PM
This is Crocus niveus 'Blue form' from Jānis. I think it is beautiful with its delicate pastel shades. 8)
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Anthony Darby on October 03, 2009, 08:56:16 PM
Here is my pot of Crocus goulimyi from SRGC seed.
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: dominique on October 04, 2009, 06:53:35 AM
Nice all these pics. Thanks at the authors. Here a Crocus I suppose serotinus ssp salzmannii from seeds mixed with Merendera pyrenaica that I received of a friend. It blooms for the first time. First time too for this seedling (3 years) of Crocus boryi. Is it boryi true or boryi x tournefortii ?
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Paul T on October 04, 2009, 07:33:23 AM
Lovely pics all!!

Hagan, that vallicola is stunning!!  I love the striping, and the elongated tips.  Never seen anything quite like it before.  Thanks so much (and to everyone else posting pics too!)  8)
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Sinchets on October 04, 2009, 09:23:00 AM
Anthony, is the colour of your Crous true or is it an artefact of the camera? Whatever- a pretty stunning colour combination.  :)
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: tonyg on October 04, 2009, 12:06:50 PM
Nice all these pics. Thanks at the authors. Here a Crocus I suppose serotinus ssp salzmannii from seeds mixed with Merendera pyrenaica that I received of a friend. It blooms for the first time. First time too for this seedling (3 years) of Crocus boryi. Is it boryi true or boryi x tournefortii ?
If your Crocus boryi has tournefortii genes it will probably stay open at night.
I have plants labelled C boryi x tournefortii which appear identical to C boryi .... and they close up in dull weather!  It can be very difficult to tell where natural variation ends and hybrid influence begins.
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: mark smyth on October 04, 2009, 01:07:23 PM
Over the last few weeks I have been updating the Crocus pages of my web site. If you see any mistakes feel free to tell me.
http://www.marksgardenplants.com/crocus.htm (http://www.marksgardenplants.com/crocus.htm)
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Alex on October 04, 2009, 01:48:41 PM
Crocus mathewi (the other pot but same clone) and C. goulimyi
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: johnw on October 04, 2009, 02:06:17 PM
Over the last few weeks I have been updating the Crocus pages of my web site. If you see any mistakes feel free to tell me.
http://www.marksgardenplants.com/crocus.htm (http://www.marksgardenplants.com/crocus.htm)

Brilliant job Mark.

I love those tommies. Too bad they are so scarce here. We just got Roseus from Holland and hope it is true, the rest I have never seen offered aside from Whitewell Purple.   We got the latter last year as Roseus from BC, I wonder if it's correct.

johnw
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Gerry Webster on October 04, 2009, 02:16:29 PM
Nice all these pics. Thanks at the authors. Here a Crocus I suppose serotinus ssp salzmannii from seeds mixed with Merendera pyrenaica that I received of a friend. It blooms for the first time. First time too for this seedling (3 years) of Crocus boryi. Is it boryi true or boryi x tournefortii ?
If your Crocus boryi has tournefortii genes it will probably stay open at night.
I have plants labelled C boryi x tournefortii which appear identical to C boryi .... and they close up in dull weather!  It can be very difficult to tell where natural variation ends and hybrid influence begins.

I agree with Tony  that probably the only reliable way to tell is the behaviour of the plants at night. I have probable hybrids that look like C.boryi & others that look quite close to C. tournefortii. I also have the impression that quite a lot of current trade forms of C. tournefortii are probably hybrids.
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: mark smyth on October 04, 2009, 02:16:37 PM
John if you are getting bulbs next year I'll send you some tommies
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: johnw on October 04, 2009, 02:20:07 PM
John if you are getting bulbs next year I'll send you some tommies

Mark - Here is a close up of our "Whitewell Purple", it may not be typical as it was forced and the light was low.

The tommies and sieberis do very well here. We planted 24 sieberi 'Violent Queens' about 8 years ago and dug over 500+ this summer.

johnw
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: mark smyth on October 04, 2009, 02:32:22 PM
That looks right by what I have. Thomas H will say yes or no.
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: johnw on October 04, 2009, 03:20:08 PM
John if you are getting bulbs next year

Is there such a thing as not getting bulbs next year?   ::)

johnw
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: mark smyth on October 04, 2009, 03:21:50 PM
You never know.

Are you coming this way again next year?
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Gerry Webster on October 04, 2009, 03:26:26 PM
Over the last few weeks I have been updating the Crocus pages of my web site. If you see any mistakes feel free to tell me.
http://www.marksgardenplants.com/crocus.htm (http://www.marksgardenplants.com/crocus.htm)

Very nice Mark.

However, there is no such plant as "C. hadriaticus chrysanthus". I suspect this is a misreading of "chrysobelonicus" which is no longer an accepted name.

Also - C. goulimyi 'Mani White' doesn't look right. As I know it, the open flower has a very characteristic triangular shape when viewed from above.
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: johnw on October 04, 2009, 03:41:36 PM
You never know.

Are you coming this way again next year?

We have to go to Germany in May (bad timing work-wise) so unless there's a miracle we'll miss the UK this time round. :'(

johnw
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Janis Ruksans on October 04, 2009, 03:43:09 PM
And the last - pulchellus hybrid ZEPHYR ( I can't to distuingish it from Leonid's speciosus LATE LOVE.)
Janis

Janis, the photo on Leonids website shows clearly a plant with yellow pollen - not white as in Zephyr.
The throat in 'Late Love' looks white, not yellow.
My LATE LOVE I got dirrectly from Leonid, so possibly some mix is in stock (or label misplaced).
Janis
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Janis Ruksans on October 04, 2009, 03:47:22 PM
Boyed your 'Late Love' has yellow pollen -adding - I see you have Leonids photo. Mine have white so I will relabel mine as pulchellus. My new policy is to write the name of the supplier on my labels but for some reason I didnt write it on my ?'Late Love'. Is Leonid the only supplier?

LATE LOVE is breed by Leonid and he is single one who supplies it.
Janis
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Janis Ruksans on October 04, 2009, 03:49:32 PM
Great shots from all.
Here a cross from hadriaticus x sativus 'Cashmerianus'.
The F1 hybrid with yellow anthers and set good seed.
First flower from F2 in this autumn with white anthers  :-*.

Dirk, Excellent! Especially F-2.
Janis
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Janis Ruksans on October 04, 2009, 03:51:37 PM
Gerry,
Will without doubt post pictures when they flower, all the exxcitement of growing from seed!
Again your thomasii is a super specimen, and, once again we have this species as 1 year old corms from seed purchased from Monocot ( coll. Italy not Croatia? )  in 2005 sowed in 2007 and germinated autumn 2008! Flowering 2011,2012?????
My earliest blooming of Crocus (spring) was 17 monthes after sawing of seeds (cross between abantensis and ancyrensis).
Janis
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Janis Ruksans on October 04, 2009, 03:58:11 PM
Nice all these pics. Thanks at the authors. Here a Crocus I suppose serotinus ssp salzmannii from seeds mixed with Merendera pyrenaica that I received of a friend. It blooms for the first time. First time too for this seedling (3 years) of Crocus boryi. Is it boryi true or boryi x tournefortii ?
If your Crocus boryi has tournefortii genes it will probably stay open at night.
I have plants labelled C boryi x tournefortii which appear identical to C boryi .... and they close up in dull weather!  It can be very difficult to tell where natural variation ends and hybrid influence begins.

On Crete I collected specimen looking as typical tournefortii and labeled it so - but it closed at night confirming Brian Mathews opinion that on Crete both hybridise.
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: mark smyth on October 04, 2009, 04:24:40 PM
I have two plants with lost label ::)

The outer 3 are palest blue and the inner three are almost white. Any idea? It looks like speciosus to me.

And another lost label that looks like a very form of specious - unless you know better!?
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: mark smyth on October 04, 2009, 04:28:42 PM
Here is a comparison of ochroleucus and ochroleucus Valerie Finnis
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Janis Ruksans on October 04, 2009, 04:37:21 PM
An hour ago returned from sunny Lithuania to rainy and very cold Latvia. Not visited yet garden so few pictures from last shots. Hope more flowers will come tomorrow when I again will be in my nursery.
Here two forms of Crocus kotschyanus, two aquisitions of Crocus vallicola and Crocus assumaniae white form.
Janis
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Janis Ruksans on October 04, 2009, 06:04:18 PM
One more picture overlooked during previous entries (pictured on Friday) - blue form ofCrocus niveus.
Janis
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: mark smyth on October 04, 2009, 06:08:17 PM
wolf whistle!
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Janis Ruksans on October 04, 2009, 06:33:32 PM
Here is a comparison of ochroleucus and ochroleucus Valerie Finnis
Excellent albino (ochroleucus Valerie Finnis), never saw it before.
Janis
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Janis Ruksans on October 04, 2009, 06:38:32 PM
I have two plants with lost label ::)

The outer 3 are palest blue and the inner three are almost white. Any idea? It looks like speciosus to me.

And another lost label that looks like a very form of specious - unless you know better!?

Both seem to be speciosus but I would like to know about corm tunics.
Janis
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Melvyn Jope on October 04, 2009, 06:40:13 PM
Three forms of Crocus goulimyi in flower today.
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Oron Peri on October 04, 2009, 07:11:32 PM
Janis
The Kotscyanus from Hatay is beautiful, pattern and form of the style!!
Could you please show assumaniae white form when it opens, I'm curious about  it.
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Janis Ruksans on October 04, 2009, 07:52:42 PM
Janis
The Kotscyanus from Hatay is beautiful, pattern and form of the style!!
Could you please show assumaniae white form when it opens, I'm curious about  it.

Oron,
Here you can see the inside, picture is from last year. If will be sun in following days (very doubtful checking weather broadcast) - I will try to make better.
Janis
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Anthony Darby on October 04, 2009, 07:57:59 PM
Janis, your Crocus niveus blue form appears to have more colour than mine? It may be a pigment of my imagination, or perhaps the light, my camera or how long the flowers have been open. Do they vary?
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Gerry Webster on October 04, 2009, 08:29:38 PM
Crocus tournefortii hybrid?

On Crete I collected specimen looking as typical tournefortii and labeled it so - but it closed at night confirming Brian Mathews opinion that on Crete both hybridise.


This was obtained as C. tournefortii 2 years ago from a well-known bulb supplier in the UK. It  does not remain open at night. I think it is probably a hybrid (with C. boryi?).  
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Armin on October 04, 2009, 08:40:56 PM
Over the last few weeks I have been updating the Crocus pages of my web site. If you see any mistakes feel free to tell me.
http://www.marksgardenplants.com/crocus.htm (http://www.marksgardenplants.com/crocus.htm)

Hello Mark,
wonderful crocus pictures on your web site. Like it.
I took you by word and found some typos/errors... ;) (I hope did not make any typos too :D)
Headers:
assumaniae -> asumaniae
kossaninii -> kosaninii
lavaegatus -> laevigatus
tournfortii -> tournefortii
versicolor picturatus -> versicolor "Picturatus" (cultivar name)
Pictures:
C. chrysanthus "Prince of Orange" -> it is C. flavus "Prince of Orange"
C. kotschanus laecupharynx -> C. kotschyanus var. leucopharynx
C. laevigatus fontenyi -> C. laevigatus "Fontenayi" (cultivar name)
C. pulchellus leucopharyax (?) -> picture from the side looks C. kotschyanus var. leucopharynx to me
C. speciosus "Artibar" -> C. speciosus "Artabir" (cultivar name)
C. speciosus aitchinsonii -> C. speciosus "Aitchinsonii" (cultivar name)
brgds
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Armin on October 04, 2009, 08:55:54 PM
I have two plants with lost label ::)

The outer 3 are palest blue and the inner three are almost white. Any idea? It looks like speciosus to me.

And another lost label that looks like a very form of specious - unless you know better!?

Hi Mark,
Label2: resembles C. cancellatus mazziaricus ? But I'm not sure.
Label1: resembles C. speciosus "Aino" . "Aino" has strong contrasted venes when opening.
brgds
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Armin on October 04, 2009, 09:44:18 PM
Janis,
the blue forms of C. niveus and C. kotschyanus ssp. kotschyanus from Hatay province are superb. :o 8)

In my garden C. kotschyanus ssp. kotschyanus HKEP9027 opened whitish during a short time of sunshine last Friday.
Today flower was closed due to a dull day. Overall color has changed to a fine rose` :D

In the second picture the hairy throat can be seen. Actually I was a bit surprised about my tiny camera, a Canon IXUS 80IS, to get the hairs focused.

Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Paul T on October 04, 2009, 10:08:18 PM
I have got to find a source here in Aus of the blue form of niveus (or else track down seed to try it).  I think of the Crocus I grow, niveus is the favourite shape to it, but the blues (be they all blue or bicolor) as shown here are just so beautiful.

Mark, that striped speciosus is striking. 

So many other glorious pics here from everyone.  Thanks.
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: tonyg on October 04, 2009, 11:34:26 PM
Flowering today - 2 forms of Crocus gilanicus ... at least that is what the labels say.

The first is seed raised from an old collection (?1970's) while the lovely lilac form is a recent gift from a friend who I assume has others from the same source but none this colour.  I have never knowingly seen Crocus autranii 'in the flesh' but from recent postings here I am wondering if the lilac plant is in fact Crocus autranii.  I'd be interested in Janis opinion and anyone else who has grown both. 
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Graeme Strachan on October 04, 2009, 11:55:03 PM
Hello - I'm new to growing autumn crocus and am enjoying the results even though what has grown was not what I had bought. I purchased Speciosus albus but the lack of the colour white indicates to me that they are not exactly the crocus I had ordered. Would I be correct in saying that they are Crocus Pulchellus? The photos were taken today  - they survived the high winds we had here yesterday.

             Thanks

                Graeme
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Janis Ruksans on October 05, 2009, 05:29:34 AM
Janis, your Crocus niveus blue form appears to have more colour than mine? It may be a pigment of my imagination, or perhaps the light, my camera or how long the flowers have been open. Do they vary?
Niveus color is variable in nature. This one was the single plant with so deep blue shade which I collected S of Monemvasia in Pelloponess.
Janis
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Janis Ruksans on October 05, 2009, 05:37:19 AM
Flowering today - 2 forms of Crocus gilanicus ... at least that is what the labels say.

The first is seed raised from an old collection (?1970's) while the lovely lilac form is a recent gift from a friend who I assume has others from the same source but none this colour.  I have never knowingly seen Crocus autranii 'in the flesh' but from recent postings here I am wondering if the lilac plant is in fact Crocus autranii.  I'd be interested in Janis opinion and anyone else who has grown both. 
The first looks as true gilanicus and the second is autranii, although could be hybrid with gilanicus, F-1 hybrids are very similar to autranii only slightly bluer in shade, but this one looks typically deep lilac as it must be with pure autranii. I wait blooming of F-2 to see the variability of splitting.
Janis
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: I.S. on October 05, 2009, 05:44:12 AM
Hello - I'm new to growing autumn crocus and am enjoying the results even though what has grown was not what I had bought. I purchased Speciosus albus but the lack of the colour white indicates to me that they are not exactly the crocus I had ordered. Would I be correct in saying that they are Crocus Pulchellus? The photos were taken today  - they survived the high winds we had here yesterday.

             Thanks

                Graeme


Graeme this does not looks like a clear pulchellus to me. It looks more like C. pulchellus x speciosus !
But a very nice form.
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Janis Ruksans on October 05, 2009, 06:32:45 AM
Hello - I'm new to growing autumn crocus and am enjoying the results even though what has grown was not what I had bought. I purchased Speciosus albus but the lack of the colour white indicates to me that they are not exactly the crocus I had ordered. Would I be correct in saying that they are Crocus Pulchellus? The photos were taken today  - they survived the high winds we had here yesterday.

             Thanks

                Graeme

I agree with Ibrahim that those more looks as hybrids between both.
Janis
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Thomas Huber on October 05, 2009, 08:18:48 AM

Mark - Here is a close up of our "Whitewell Purple", it may not be typical as it was forced and the light was low.

johnw

Looks correct to me, John.

When exactly and in which area will you be in Germany next May?
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: tonyg on October 05, 2009, 08:42:47 AM
Flowering today - 2 forms of Crocus gilanicus ... at least that is what the labels say.
I'd be interested in Janis opinion and anyone else who has grown both. 
The first looks as true gilanicus and the second is autranii, although could be hybrid with gilanicus, F-1 hybrids are very similar to autranii only slightly bluer in shade, but this one looks typically deep lilac as it must be with pure autranii. I wait blooming of F-2 to see the variability of splitting.
Janis
Thank you Janis.  I have selfed the one flower of supposed autranii and hope for seed. 
Hubi - if it sets seed half will be on its way to Neustadt!
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: jnovis on October 05, 2009, 12:12:11 PM
Help please,can someone identify these 3 crocus?
1.seed collected in Peloponnese from Bi-florus melantherus site,obviously not correct, pity as I need it.
2.seed received as Serotinus salzmannii
3.possibly cancellatus mazziaricus
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Janis Ruksans on October 05, 2009, 12:20:17 PM
Between clouds came some sun. I closed windows and doors in greenhouse to rise up temperature and to force flower opening. By first picture you can judge about amount of water falling from sky during 2 days of my absence in nursery. Second shows one bed of Crocus pots - in front are those which need some moisture - kotschyanus, speciosus, pulchellus. At far end blooms those which need dry summer - cancellatus, pallasii, thomasii, asumaniae etc. And the third is traditional blue form of Crocus niveus. More pictures later.
Janis
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: tonyg on October 05, 2009, 12:26:06 PM
Help please,can someone identify these 3 crocus?
1.seed collected in Peloponnese from Bi-florus melantherus site,obviously not correct, pity as I need it.
2.seed received as Serotinus salzmannii
3.possibly cancellatus mazziaricus
All the flowers look like Crocus niveus.
The first 2 corms could easily be niveus.
The final corm is certainly cancellatus if autumn flowering - location probably your best guide to which ssp.
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: David Nicholson on October 05, 2009, 12:27:19 PM
Janis, are you able to say when your new book will be published please?
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Janis Ruksans on October 05, 2009, 12:50:22 PM
Help please,can someone identify these 3 crocus?
1.seed collected in Peloponnese from Bi-florus melantherus site,obviously not correct, pity as I need it.
2.seed received as Serotinus salzmannii
3.possibly cancellatus mazziaricus
All the flowers look like Crocus niveus.
The first 2 corms could easily be niveus.
The final corm is certainly cancellatus if autumn flowering - location probably your best guide to which ssp.

I agree.
Janis
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: johnw on October 05, 2009, 12:50:31 PM

Mark - Here is a close up of our "Whitewell Purple", it may not be typical as it was forced and the light was low.

johnw

Looks correct to me, John.

When exactly and in which area will you be in Germany next May?


Thomas  - We will be there from the 14th -24th of May.  Probably we will fly into Munchen as I haven't been back for years since working there, onto Weimar for a day and then to the meeting in Bremen 20-23 and back home.  Alot of driving & I haven't checked the kilometers, maybe train is wiser!

johnw
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Janis Ruksans on October 05, 2009, 12:51:31 PM
Janis, are you able to say when your new book will be published please?

In August, 2010. In November I will have text back from editor to confirm corrections.
Janis
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Thomas Huber on October 05, 2009, 01:29:30 PM
Tony, the dark autranii/gilanicus originates from a person who grows both plants.
This single corm was between standard gilanicus corms when I received it and
sent it further to you, so I assume it was a seedling, probably with autranii.
Good luck for pollinating - I will be happy to receive some seeds next year.

Janis, your "hundreds" of blue niveus look very special - hope mine will increase as well in future.

John, German Autobahn makes travelling by car very relaxed - if you avoid rush-hour. If you have time between
Weimar and Bremen you're invited to visit me here in Neustadt (one and a half hour extra drive).
Crocus will be over at that time but meeting a forumist is always worth the effort  ;D
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Sinchets on October 05, 2009, 02:06:01 PM
Some more C.niveus flowering in the xeric garden and a C.pulchellus albus. Is the splitting near the petal tips a sign of virus or maybe just stress? The leaves of all these plants were strong and healthy last spring.
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: olegKon on October 05, 2009, 02:12:42 PM
We are having a spel of nice wheather autumn crocuses so obviously enjoy
1.Crocus speciosus albus
2.Crocus kotchianus (light form)
3.Usual crocus kotchianus
4.The same in a trough
5.6 Crocus speciosus
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Janis Ruksans on October 05, 2009, 02:36:30 PM

Janis, your "hundreds" of blue niveus look very special - hope mine will increase as well in future.


Thomas, I started with very few, but it takes time to increase stock.

Regarding autranii/gilanicus - comparing on picture it looks just as my pure autranii. But picture is picture, different cameras, different lights.

Janis
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: David Nicholson on October 05, 2009, 02:40:05 PM
Janis, are you able to say when your new book will be published please?

In August, 2010. In November I will have text back from editor to confirm corrections.
Janis

Janis, many thanks. My thoughts were turning to my Christmas 'Wish List' but I shall now start off my 2010 List ;D
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: David Nicholson on October 05, 2009, 02:43:47 PM
My Crocuses seem to have made a late start this season but now it is a little cooler (and wetter!) the action is starting.

Crocus speciosus 'Albus' and Crocus pulchellus 'Inspiration', looking a little worse for wear!

Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Janis Ruksans on October 05, 2009, 02:55:45 PM
Few more pictures from today. Just opened C. speciosus xantholaimos. Few of Leonids selections of speciosus are blooming. My favourites are BLUE WEB and LITHUANIAN AUTUMN - cv. with strongest contrast between color of outer and inner flower segnents (3 pictures).
Janis
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Janis Ruksans on October 05, 2009, 02:58:27 PM
Few more pictures. Crocus asumaniae Alba opened flowers, so it is possible to picture inside. First runner of mathewii started blooming, others only shows noses. Nicely blooms C. thomasii from Italy.
Janis
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Anthony Darby on October 05, 2009, 03:52:44 PM
Tony, the dark autranii/gilanicus originates from a person who grows both plants.
This single corm was between standard gilanicus corms when I received it and
sent it further to you, so I assume it was a seedling, probably with autranii.
Good luck for pollinating - I will be happy to receive some seeds next year.

Janis, your "hundreds" of blue niveus look very special - hope mine will increase as well in future.

John, German Autobahn makes travelling by car very relaxed - if you avoid rush-hour. If you have time between
Weimar and Bremen you're invited to visit me here in Neustadt (one and a half hour extra drive).
Crocus will be over at that time but meeting a forumist is always worth the effort  ;D
I had one corm from Janis last year. I now have two, so yes it increases even for me.
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Michael J Campbell on October 05, 2009, 04:33:38 PM
A late flowering Crocus mathewii
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: johnw on October 05, 2009, 04:34:15 PM

John, German Autobahn makes travelling by car very relaxed - if you avoid rush-hour. If you have time between
Weimar and Bremen you're invited to visit me here in Neustadt (one and a half hour extra drive).
Crocus will be over at that time but meeting a forumist is always worth the effort  ;D

Very kind Thomas.  I will let you know if it is possible to do a quick visit.

The Autobahn relaxing? ;D

johnw
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: tonyg on October 05, 2009, 04:39:19 PM
Crocus mathewi (the other pot but same clone) and C. goulimyi
Meant to say this earlier - That's the two best pans of Crocus mathewii I have ever seen.  Individually candisates for a Farrer Medal, combine the two and you're on a winner.  Well Done!   (I have a pot of this clone ... just the one in flower this year!)
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Tony Willis on October 05, 2009, 05:25:09 PM
some pots in flower today

Crocus hadriaticus
Crocus niveus
Mixed Crocus niveus and Crocus goulimyi
Crcosu pulchellus
Crocus asumaniae
Crocus pallasii ssp diaspathaceus
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Ragged Robin on October 05, 2009, 05:27:16 PM
A feast for the eyes, thanks to everyone for posting their collections - something to dream about  :D
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Graeme Strachan on October 05, 2009, 06:02:36 PM
Hello - I'm new to growing autumn crocus and am enjoying the results even though what has grown was not what I had bought. I purchased Speciosus albus but the lack of the colour white indicates to me that they are not exactly the crocus I had ordered. Would I be correct in saying that they are Crocus Pulchellus? The photos were taken today  - they survived the high winds we had here yesterday.

             Thanks

                Graeme

Quote
Graeme this does not looks like a clear pulchellus to me. It looks more like C. pulchellus x speciosus !
But a very nice form.
ibrahim

Quote
I agree with Ibrahim that those more looks as hybrids between both.
Janis

ibrahim, Janis - thank you your identification of my C.pulchellus x speciosus. Am I correct in the following assumptions?
1) The perianth segments, the white anthers and its size make it part pulchellus and
2) Its lighter throat and larger style branches make it part speciosus.
regards

     Graeme
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Gerry Webster on October 05, 2009, 06:03:55 PM
Some more C.niveus flowering in the xeric garden and a C.pulchellus albus. Is the splitting near the petal tips a sign of virus or maybe just stress? The leaves of all these plants were strong and healthy last spring.
Simon - that's a very nice form of C. niveus; I really like the delicate colours.
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Sinchets on October 05, 2009, 07:32:50 PM
Thanks, Gerry.  :)
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: mark smyth on October 05, 2009, 07:44:36 PM
I didn't believe when I got C. goulimyi large flowered form that it would be any different until today. Large it is and here it is in my hand. My fingers were holding the top of the tube. The flower is just over 6cm cross
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Janis Ruksans on October 05, 2009, 08:23:31 PM
Crocus goulimyi variability.
Janis
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: John Aipassa on October 05, 2009, 08:25:47 PM
Hi all,

Here is my first flowering autumn Crocus. It is speciosus Oxonian.

Cheers,
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Anthony Darby on October 05, 2009, 09:02:31 PM
What a lovely deep colour John! 8)
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: John Aipassa on October 05, 2009, 09:20:51 PM
Lovely isn't it Anthony? It is my favourite one so far, but I don't have many species or cv's in my garden (yet  ;)!), so not much to compare.

My few other autumn flowering species and/or cv's are just sticking out their nose in the garden, so I hope to post some more pictures later on.

Cheers!

What a lovely deep colour John! 8)
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: BULBISSIME on October 05, 2009, 09:31:47 PM
Thomas, Mark, Janis, and all others, many many thank's for all this species pics !
Incredible choice, variations and what a job to do a correct monograph  :o
Fabulous genus of which I only grow very very few species, .... for the moment  ;)
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Alex on October 05, 2009, 10:09:55 PM
Crocus mathewi (the other pot but same clone) and C. goulimyi
Meant to say this earlier - That's the two best pans of Crocus mathewii I have ever seen.  Individually candisates for a Farrer Medal, combine the two and you're on a winner.  Well Done!   (I have a pot of this clone ... just the one in flower this year!)

Very kind, Tony - these are all from one pot full from Peter Moore (probably 2 or 3 corms) about 7 or 8 years ago. I'm very pleased with it, but sadly everything doesn't grow like this (in fact nothing else, really).

Alex
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Lesley Cox on October 05, 2009, 10:40:59 PM
Stunning crocus from so many growers. Hard to pick a favourite but I do admire your lilac niveus Janis. Such good news about the book too. A Christmas present for 2011. :)

Would you like to start on a Fritillaria book next? I know Martyn Rix is said to be doing this, but I may be in my grave before we see it. :'(
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Martin Baxendale on October 05, 2009, 10:58:55 PM
Such good news about the book too. A Christmas present for 2101.

Bit optimistic on the longevity front, Lelsey? Or have you been at the virgins' bloody again? I'd stick to the pinot noir; it's easier to get out of the table cloths.
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Gerry Webster on October 05, 2009, 11:41:08 PM
Would you like to start on a Fritillaria book next? I know Martyn Rix is said to be doing this, but I may be in my grave before we see it. :'(
You will Lesley. Me too.
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Janis Ruksans on October 06, 2009, 05:21:58 AM
Would you like to start on a Fritillaria book next? I know Martyn Rix is said to be doing this, but I may be in my grave before we see it. :'(
You will Lesley. Me too.

I'm afraid that I too. I'm not so clever in frits to write book about them although I'm thinking about writing job for winter 10/11. Still have no idea about topic.
Janis
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Thomas Huber on October 06, 2009, 10:20:20 AM
Welcome back John (A) - it's been one year now since we met last time. Hope you and your family are well!?

Fred, you can't avoid to be caught by the crocus virus if you read and watch regularly in this thread  ;D

Simon, are all those blue niveus flowers from just one single corm??  :o If so, it's a very good form, my own
plants of niveus have only 1 or 2 flowers even from large corms.
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: David Nicholson on October 06, 2009, 10:38:59 AM
Such good news about the book too. A Christmas present for 2101.

Bit optimistic on the longevity front, Lelsey? Or have you been at the virgins' bloody again? I'd stick to the pinot noir; it's easier to get out of the table cloths.

Lesley, you will be about 158 in 2101-are you sure you will make it ;D
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Sinchets on October 06, 2009, 11:18:32 AM
Thomas, I am not sure how many corms there are there now. I intend to split the patch up next summer.
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Paul T on October 06, 2009, 11:50:37 AM
Simon,

How blue is that little clump of the niveus of yours?  I've just realised it looks like it is bicolored.... I thought it was white until I went looking for it after Thomas' comment about being blue.
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Janis Ruksans on October 06, 2009, 12:17:50 PM
Here some pictures from today. Fortunately it is sunny, although cold, but excellent for pictures.
Janis


 Crocus cancellatus pamphylicus.JPG
 Crocus cancellatus RIGA-074 -02.JPG
 Crocus goulimyi Mani White.JPG
 Crocus pulchellus Alba.JPG
 Crocus vallicola - last flowers.JPG
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Luc Gilgemyn on October 06, 2009, 01:07:20 PM

 Crocus cancellatus pamphylicus.JPG
 


A real stunner Janis !!
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: John Aipassa on October 06, 2009, 01:35:34 PM
Welcome back John (A) - it's been one year now since we met last time. Hope you and your family are well!?

Thanks Thomas,

All is well here in the Eastern parts of Holland. I hope you and your family are well too dear friend.

Time goes fast, it is indeed one year since we have seen each other. It is as if I have been at your place only a few months ago. Although that could't be the case, since I would not be able to make some pictures of your beautiful autumn Crocus I did last year. Any interest in which photos I took back then? I could post them, but that would be some of your Crocus in 2008, which I believe should flower at this moment too, so much difference should not be the case.... ;)?

I must admit that seeing your Crocus last year inspired me to plant some autumn species in my garden too. I only had a few spring flowering ones, so thanks for giving me the "virus".   

Cheers,


 
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Thomas Huber on October 06, 2009, 01:48:48 PM
Yes, John, everything fine here with the Hubi's.
Would love to see some of your photos from last years visit - my own plants still seem to sleep.
Some are up, but most plants just begin to show their noses. And weather isn't good for photographing now  :-[
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: mark smyth on October 06, 2009, 03:22:57 PM
How does Crocus cancellatus pamphylicus differ from pulchellus Zephyr?
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: tonyg on October 06, 2009, 03:39:06 PM
I can see why you ask Mark but if you had them side by side it would be easy to see they are different.  Corm tunic is the easy way, pulchellus has papery tunic, cancellatus have very clearly netted fibrous tunic.  The flowers are not so much alike as the picture suggests.  Unless the form Janis shows is twice the size of the ones I grow, C cancellatus pamphyllicus is much smaller than C pulchellus Zephyr which has very large flowers.  There are other subtler differences too.
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: mark smyth on October 06, 2009, 03:48:02 PM
Thanks
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Janis Ruksans on October 06, 2009, 04:10:32 PM
I can see why you ask Mark but if you had them side by side it would be easy to see they are different.  Corm tunic is the easy way, pulchellus has papery tunic, cancellatus have very clearly netted fibrous tunic.  The flowers are not so much alike as the picture suggests.  Unless the form Janis shows is twice the size of the ones I grow, C cancellatus pamphyllicus is much smaller than C pulchellus Zephyr which has very large flowers.  There are other subtler differences too.

Tony, the size of my form is normall. Only camera shows them larger.
Janis
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Sinchets on October 06, 2009, 05:06:40 PM
Simon,

How blue is that little clump of the niveus of yours?  I've just realised it looks like it is bicolored.... I thought it was white until I went looking for it after Thomas' comment about being blue.
It's more of a bicolor, Paul. The colder nights here seem to accentuating the difference between the 3 outer and 3 inner petals. My other 2 forms are pure white. I don't have the pure blue form- yet  ;)
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Janis Ruksans on October 06, 2009, 05:33:54 PM
Some more pictures for today. Today started blooming of purple C. banaticus. I used last pollens of C. banaticus FIRST SNOW to pollinate them and vice verse. Next is another Crocus boryi stock, later blooming but otherwise almost identical with early blooming. Two pictures showing variability of Crocus cancellatus subsp. mazziaricus (note the diferences in branching of style in second picture) and the last for this entry - white form of Crocus caspius which I got just now from my Belgium friend. Another stock grom Ian Young only shows its noses. Pity - didn't succeed to restore bluish colored stock from Norman Stevens. I lost all my caspius stocks last winter. It was too cold for this species.
Janis
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Janis Ruksans on October 06, 2009, 05:44:32 PM
Some more pictures. The best today was C. mathewii selection 'Brian Mathew' although flowers this year is not as large as usually and flowering isn't so abundant as normally. Excellent flowershape has this Crocus hadriaticus form from Alepohori. With help of T.H. I finally got healthy C. ligusticus. All comercial stocks got earlier turned virus infected. Pure white C. niveus stock collected S of Gythion is nothing special, then follows early form of Crocus pulchellus. As the last for today is Crocus serotinus subsp. clusii. I have only one stock of it and I'm a little doubtful about correctness of name. Style should be more divided. Would like to know your opinion.
Janis
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: mark smyth on October 06, 2009, 06:13:38 PM
Janis is there a hybrid seedling in the pot of Crocus cancellatus subsp. mazziaricus ?
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Janis Ruksans on October 06, 2009, 06:26:57 PM
Janis is there a hybrid seedling in the pot of Crocus cancellatus subsp. mazziaricus ?
I don't think so, it is labeled as wild stock (LST-402). It comes from surroundings of Denizli where was collected together with C. baytopiorum. It turned very variable there.
Janis
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Anthony Darby on October 06, 2009, 06:48:22 PM
Can't wait for these to open!
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: mark smyth on October 06, 2009, 07:07:20 PM
Armin I didnt notice you reply about 6 pages back. I'll sort it out now thanks.
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: John Aipassa on October 06, 2009, 07:45:30 PM
Can't wait for these to open!

Wow Anthony, stunning ones. Is it a mathewi form?

Cheers,
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Ragged Robin on October 06, 2009, 07:48:10 PM
Can't wait for these to open!

Nor can I, Anthony, they look gorgeous  :)
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: John Aipassa on October 06, 2009, 07:55:10 PM
Yes, John, everything fine here with the Hubi's.
Would love to see some of your photos from last years visit - my own plants still seem to sleep.
Some are up, but most plants just begin to show their noses. And weather isn't good for photographing now  :-[

Hi Thomas,

Here they are. I forgot the labels, but I am sure the darker ones are Oxonian. Maybe you can help me to ID your Crocus.

Cheers,
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: mark smyth on October 06, 2009, 07:58:08 PM
An all blue mathewii?

Is this speciosus too well coloured to be speciosus?
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Anthony Darby on October 06, 2009, 08:12:07 PM
Crocus mathewii 'Dream Dancer'.
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Lesley Cox on October 06, 2009, 09:28:29 PM
Such good news about the book too. A Christmas present for 2101.

Bit optimistic on the longevity front, Lelsey? Or have you been at the virgins' bloody again? I'd stick to the pinot noir; it's easier to get out of the table cloths.

Lesley, you will be about 158 in 2101-are you sure you will make it ;D

I'm hopeful David  ;D but all the same had better rely only on 2010.
That's why we gave up tablecloths years ago Martin.
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Anthony Darby on October 06, 2009, 10:43:33 PM
Any ideas as to what this one is?
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Martin Baxendale on October 06, 2009, 10:53:00 PM
Any ideas as to what this one is?

Looks like goulimyi. Slightly unusual overlapping petal arrangement, but I assume that's cos it's just opened.
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Paul T on October 06, 2009, 11:21:47 PM
Janis,

Excellent photos.  The standout to me is the contrasts in Crocus cancellatus pamphylicus, one I've never seen before.

Anthony,

I just adore the buds of the Dream Dancer.  Even not know what the flowers are like, those buds are brilliant.  I hope it, or seed to try, makes it to Australia one day.  Gorgeous!
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: mark smyth on October 07, 2009, 01:01:20 AM
Could my dark orange centred C. speciosus, a few posts above, be C. speciosus xantholaimos.

All my original C. speciosus purchases broke down to rice and I gave up on them. I bought speciosus xantholaimos in 2006. Three years is long enough for the corms to build to flowering size again.

 


 
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Janis Ruksans on October 07, 2009, 05:31:35 AM
Yes, John, everything fine here with the Hubi's.
Would love to see some of your photos from last years visit - my own plants still seem to sleep.
Some are up, but most plants just begin to show their noses. And weather isn't good for photographing now  :-[

Hi Thomas,

Here they are. I forgot the labels, but I am sure the darker ones are Oxonian. Maybe you can help me to ID your Crocus.

Cheers,

Pictures 86,87,88 - Oxonian
Janis
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: tonyg on October 07, 2009, 08:20:50 AM
Could my dark orange centred C. speciosus, a few posts above, be C. speciosus xantholaimos.
Yes!  It is the only ssp of Crocus speciosus with a yellow throat.
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: mark smyth on October 07, 2009, 09:16:08 AM
Thanks Tony. I'll label them now
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Thomas Huber on October 07, 2009, 09:17:16 AM
I lost all my caspius stocks last winter. It was too cold for this species.
Janis

I had the same problem with my C. caspius here, Janis. After 5 years or hard searching I had the first
flowers last autumn and now they are all killed by frost  :'(  :(  :-[

This wild form of medius has a good seed set in my garden, but I don't know if one flower is enough
for successful pollinating. If you don't get seeds contact me and you will get a second corm.


Sorry can't help with the clusii question. I don't have plants for comparing.
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: mark smyth on October 07, 2009, 09:29:24 AM
The C. speciosus xantholaimos were supplied by Dix as C. pulchellus x C. speciosus xantholaimos ::)
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Thomas Huber on October 07, 2009, 10:32:07 AM
Hi Thomas,
Here they are. I forgot the labels, but I am sure the darker ones are Oxonian. Maybe you can help me to ID your Crocus.
Cheers,

Thanks John.
- 83 and 85 are what I have as speciosus 'Aichinsonii', but as usual with speciosus cultivars I can't be sure if they
are correctly named. In every case they are wonderful, large flowering plants with good pastel colouring.
- 86,87 and 88 are - like Janis already mentioned - speciosus 'Oxonian'
- 89 looks like a dark form of serotinus ssp salzmannii, without leaves on the photo, but usually they appear with the flowers
- 90 is one of my favourite speciosus, dark veining and a good scent on dark and strong stems, probably the old cultivar 'Artabir'
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Janis Ruksans on October 07, 2009, 12:44:04 PM
An all blue mathewii?

Is this speciosus too well coloured to be speciosus?


It looks as true speciosus xantholaimos. See attached picture.
Janis
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Janis Ruksans on October 07, 2009, 01:05:43 PM
I lost all my caspius stocks last winter. It was too cold for this species.
Janis

I had the same problem with my C. caspius here, Janis. After 5 years or hard searching I had the first
flowers last autumn and now they are all killed by frost  :'(  :(  :-[

This wild form of medius has a good seed set in my garden, but I don't know if one flower is enough
for successful pollinating. If you don't get seeds contact me and you will get a second corm.


Sorry can't help with the clusii question. I don't have plants for comparing.

I selfed it by hand - will see in spring. Many thanks for your kind offer.
Janis
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: mark smyth on October 07, 2009, 02:07:11 PM
Thanks Janis.

Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Oakwood on October 07, 2009, 02:48:47 PM
Just now I saw Crocus banaticus blooming in lawn near my job-place of our ukrainian capital!!! I said my self "wow", it's banaticus!  :o and so abundantly flowering in the yard! It seems to be seed's origin cause they have different shades!
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Janis Ruksans on October 07, 2009, 03:38:08 PM
Just now I saw Crocus banaticus blooming in lawn near my job-place of our ukrainian capital!!! I said my self "wow", it's banaticus!  :o and so abundantly flowering in the yard! It seems to be seed's origin cause they have different shades!
I mostly like the last for its deep purple stigma.
Janis
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Gerry Webster on October 07, 2009, 05:26:45 PM
I lost all my caspius stocks last winter. It was too cold for this species.
Janis

I had the same problem with my C. caspius here, Janis. After 5 years or hard searching I had the first
flowers last autumn and now they are all killed by frost  :'(  :(  :-[

This wild form of medius has a good seed set in my garden, but I don't know if one flower is enough
for successful pollinating. If you don't get seeds contact me and you will get a second corm.


Sorry can't help with the clusii question. I don't have plants for comparing.


After years of  searching, I eventually acquired C. caspius from Ron Beeston. It increased well & I kept it for several years but  eventually lost the entire stock to summer heat &/or drought. So, it seems, the recipe for success is neither too hot nor too cold, but just right.  This year I thought I might be in line for a replacement stock since a  forumist offered me a corm in exchange for a collected form of  C. laevigatus. I duly sent off my laevigatus preceded by an advance email, received no acknowledgment  & no caspius. This forumist no longer appears on the list of members.

This year I will have two flowering size corms of the 'wild form' of C. ligusticus (medius) so maybe I will get some seed. Last year I attempted to pollinate the trade form of C. ligusticus (which appears to be sterile) with pollen from the 'wild form', with no success.  
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: mark smyth on October 07, 2009, 06:29:14 PM
Jerry if you remind me in late spring I can send you a corm or two of C. medius.
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Gerry Webster on October 07, 2009, 07:57:52 PM
Jerry if you remind me in late spring I can send you a corm or two of C. medius.

Mark - many thanks for the offer. I am ok for C. medius, it is C. caspius for which I am looking - as rare as hen's teeth.
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: tonyg on October 07, 2009, 09:03:31 PM
Just now I saw Crocus banaticus blooming in lawn near my job-place of our ukrainian capital!!! I said my self "wow", it's banaticus!  :o and so abundantly flowering in the yard! It seems to be seed's origin cause they have different shades!
Lovely!  I think you could be right about the seed origin, every one in your pics has been nicely pollinated :)
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: mark smyth on October 07, 2009, 09:09:04 PM
I never noticed until you said.

My pollinating paint brush has gone missing so now that the hoverflies have gone I need to do the work
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Lesley Cox on October 07, 2009, 09:32:26 PM
Thomas, did the corms of C. caspius that I sent a couple of years ago, survive?
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Armin on October 07, 2009, 09:39:08 PM
Nice C. banaticus 8)

Today in sultry warm 24°C in flower

C. speciosus
C. pulchellus "Zephyr"
C. hadriaticus
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: dominique on October 08, 2009, 06:48:11 AM
Thank to all these pics
I have four different forms of tournefortii, one early, one now one more late and one albus late too. This is the best
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Ragged Robin on October 08, 2009, 08:37:50 AM
Fantastic photos, Armin and Dominique, really showing off the centres with such wild styles adding character  8)
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Thomas Huber on October 08, 2009, 08:45:39 AM
Thomas, did the corms of C. caspius that I sent a couple of years ago, survive?

Sorry Lesley, nothing from your corms, nor Tony's or Otto's. I still have to wait if the
seedlings from Otto and Ian survived. Will see in the next weeks.
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: mark smyth on October 08, 2009, 04:08:02 PM
Today while pollinating my white Crocus speciosus I noticed that one pot, source unknown, is different from the other three pots again source unknown. At least one pot is of corms bought at my first discussion weekend in Elgin.

The three pots have flowers with orange styles and orange pollen. The other pot has flowers with cream pollen and dark orange styles. All have white flowers with a pale yellow throat.
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Armin on October 08, 2009, 04:26:15 PM
Thanks Robin,
Dominique, nice pot ful 8)

Mark, it just shows how variable C. speciosus can be, right? :D Any nice pictures for us?

What reimpress me of C. speciosus is its really fast growth. As of this season my tallest one elongated to almost 21cm within 2days.
Isn't that amazing 8) Almost overnight flowers appear.
Unfortunately weather is too dull to open flower >:(
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: mark smyth on October 08, 2009, 04:31:08 PM
Armin of course I have photos. I have just edited them. One flower has a yellow style.

What's also amazing about Crocus corms is how can they produce such a big flower from a small corm. When I repotted my speciosus Album they were about the size of big peas.
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Armin on October 08, 2009, 04:36:48 PM
Mark,
both forms are pretty nice 8)
Yes, it is a kind of magic that small corms can produce such large flowers.
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Anthony Darby on October 08, 2009, 05:36:08 PM
Crocus mathewii 'Dream Dancer' opened in the sunshine today.
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Tony Willis on October 08, 2009, 05:39:38 PM
Anthony that is truly spectacular.
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: mark smyth on October 08, 2009, 05:47:05 PM
spectacular and I'm soooooo jealous
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Ragged Robin on October 08, 2009, 05:53:31 PM
Jealous as anything - what a bird's eye view  ;)

Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Gerry Webster on October 08, 2009, 06:10:19 PM
Very impressive Anthony. I wonder how many years it will be before the price comes down?
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Janis Ruksans on October 08, 2009, 06:16:49 PM
Crocus mathewii 'Dream Dancer' opened in the sunshine today.

Incredible beauty! I have one plant with something lilac shaded flower, but such... ooooh!
Janis
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: mark smyth on October 08, 2009, 06:23:55 PM
Gerry I would say cost is OK if you buy one stunner or 3 average Crocus. It might not come around again so grab it when you can
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Armin on October 08, 2009, 07:51:58 PM
Anthony,
wow :o - congratulations ;D
Extremely beautiful 8) 8) 8) 8) 8)
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Gerry Webster on October 08, 2009, 08:19:25 PM
Gerry I would say cost is OK if you buy one stunner or 3 average Crocus. It might not come around again so grab it when you can
My experience of saffron crocus from this source has not been good so I am reluctant to fork out a large sum no matter how stunning.
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: mark smyth on October 08, 2009, 09:13:57 PM
Very true
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Anthony Darby on October 08, 2009, 10:35:05 PM
I have had no problems, and anything I have not been happy with has been instantly replaced, even when the disappointment has been within the limits of variation within a particular species. I effectively got two for the price of one, as the corm was huge with two flowering shoots. I couldn't resist it, and I'm sure more than one person is kicking themselves for not biting the bullet? It is already producing flowers three and four, but alas, I may miss any more as I will be away next week.
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: mark smyth on October 08, 2009, 10:37:52 PM
Anthony you will have to lend it to someone  :-* to take more photos while you are away ;)
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Martin Baxendale on October 08, 2009, 10:40:57 PM
I have had no problems, and anything I have not been happy with has been instantly replaced, even when the disappointment has been within the limits of variation within a particular species. I effectively got two for the price of one, as the corm was huge with two flowering shoots. I couldn't resist it, and I'm sure more than one person is kicking themselves for not biting the bullet? It is already producing flowers three and four, but alas, I may miss any more as I will be away next week.

I may have missed something here, but I don't seem to have spotted a mention of who exactly sells C. mathewii 'Dream Dancer'. Can anyone enlighten me? There seems to be a lot of discussion about this but no direct mention of the supplier unless, as I say, I missed something. 
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: tonyg on October 08, 2009, 10:49:12 PM
After all the wonderful crocus of recent days I almost hesitate to post :-\ my ordinary crocus :D

I'll be dreaming of Dream Dancer ... although I could easily forget the name!

A view of my autumn crocus frame - depleted after virus and root rot problems (hopefully in the past)
To undermine my recent comments about Crocus goulimyi leucanthus - here is first flowering of seedlings .. lilac but perhaps hybrid with ssp goulimyi
A nice form of Crocus pulchellus - just as good in the garden as Crocus speciosus
two very different forms of Crocus niveus.  One huge flowered lilac, the other with unusually long style, pokes out of top of the buds!
Finally a nicely veined form of Crocus thomasii
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Anthony Darby on October 08, 2009, 10:49:54 PM
I may have missed something here, but I don't seem to have spotted a mention of who exactly sells C. mathewii 'Dream Dancer'. Can anyone enlighten me? There seems to be a lot of discussion about this but no direct mention of the supplier unless, as I say, I missed something.  

Paul Christian at www.rareplants.co.uk. It is no longer listed. I wish I'd ordered three!

After all the wonderful crocus of recent days I almost hesitate to post :-\ my ordinary crocus :D

I'll be dreaming of Dream Dancer ... although I could easily forget the name!


Now that is praise indeed, but keeeeeeep posting. That niveus is gorgeous.
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: BULBISSIME on October 08, 2009, 10:59:14 PM
Never seen it before of course Anthony !
Stunning, and thank's for sharing !
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Michael J Campbell on October 08, 2009, 11:01:32 PM
A few here,common but nice.

Crocus  cancellatus damascenus
Crocus kotshyanus subsp kotschyanus.
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Anthony Darby on October 08, 2009, 11:02:53 PM
Here's one that has no label.
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Gerry Webster on October 08, 2009, 11:07:27 PM
A view of my autumn crocus frame - depleted after virus and root rot problems (hopefully in the past).......
Finally a nicely veined form of Crocus thomasii

Root rot? I think I recognise that -  especially in purchased saffron crocus.

Tony, are you sure that this is C. thomasii? I ask because I recently posted a pic of very similar plant that I thought was this sp. but closer inspection of the leaves revealed a ciliate margin  which suggests C. hadriaticus or a near hybrid.
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Maggi Young on October 08, 2009, 11:07:58 PM
All these photogenic Crocus gems  are a real treat. I discovered the other day, while busily thrusting my nose into every flower in the bulb house, that Crocus niveus smell like Nerium oleander! Not sure why I have not remarked upon this fact before, it is a delightful scent.  8)
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Michael J Campbell on October 08, 2009, 11:17:27 PM
Maggi, after Lesley's comment about scent in the garden I went into the greenhouse and poked my nose into a lot of the crocus, and a good few of  them were scented. I don't usually smell plants because in another life I worked in up to a hundred acres of roses, and the perfume was breathtaking from a distance,so if I don't smell the scent from a plant while standing up,I would never think of sticking my nose down close to the flower.
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Gerry Webster on October 08, 2009, 11:17:59 PM
I have had no problems, and anything I have not been happy with has been instantly replaced, even when the disappointment has been within the limits of variation within a particular species.
Anthony - I recognise this phrase. When I emailed to point out that the variation in one plant was well outside the limits - based on the characterisation actually posted on the website - I got no reply. I find this supplier very erratic in his response. Sometimes very generous, at other times extremely reluctant to acknowledge any error
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Paul T on October 08, 2009, 11:23:28 PM
Anthony,

That Dream Dancer is an amazing flower.  You could easily make your money back by the sound of it just by pollinating it and hopefully setting seed..... then auctioning off the seed to the highest bidder.  Would be well worthwhile trying seed from it too, as you never know what you'd get.  Great flower, and great pic.

Michael,

Great detail in your pics.  I like the damascenus with it's intricate shading in particular.

Tony,

What you call ordinary, I still call gorgeous.  No Crocus here for at least another 5 months or so.  :o :o
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: tonyg on October 09, 2009, 08:50:24 AM
A view of my autumn crocus frame - depleted after virus and root rot problems (hopefully in the past).......
Finally a nicely veined form of Crocus thomasii
Root rot? I think I recognise that -  especially in purchased saffron crocus.
Tony, are you sure that this is C. thomasii? I ask because I recently posted a pic of very similar plant that I thought was this sp. but closer inspection of the leaves revealed a ciliate margin  which suggests C. hadriaticus or a near hybrid.
Gerry - I did wonder about this as I posted the pic.  It can be difficult to distinguish between some lilac forms of C hadriaticus and C thomasii.  However, I have just been down the garden (in my  PJs - a rare lie-in :o) and checked.  The Crocus thomasii pictured has glabrous leaf margins, just the faintest hint  of bristles on the keel.  With the same lens I observed very clear hairs on the leaf margins of Crocus hadriaticus.  So I think we can give this Thomas the benefit of the doubt ;)
Janis article in the CG newsletter that made me realise that I had had a major problem with Pythium, perhaps due to a bad batch of compost.

Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Hristo on October 09, 2009, 11:19:24 AM
Less dramatic perhaps than 'Dream Dancer' ( nice one Anthony! )
A selection of Crocus pulchellus from the Dadia and Soufli Forests in N.E. Greece.
The best flowering was above 600m and accross these forests the sheer number of Crocus pulchellus must
number in the millions! Colours ranged from the darker colour shown through to pearlescent and albino forms.
Stigmas ranged from yellow to near red!
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Gerry Webster on October 09, 2009, 11:43:40 AM
Less dramatic perhaps, but just as beautiful. Great to see in the wild - thanks Chris.
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Sinchets on October 09, 2009, 01:15:52 PM
Flowering here as a welcome home present
Crocus pallasii pallasii
Crocus 'niveus?' doubled
Crocus niveus collected as seed March2000 in the far south of the Mani Peninsula
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: David Nicholson on October 09, 2009, 04:46:16 PM
Here is my Crocus banaticus (I think!) after an hour on the kitchen window sill to get it to open. On Crocus Pages Tonyg says of banaticus ".... with a flower whose outside petals can reflex leading some early botanists to call the plant Crocus iridiflorus" and now I see what he means.

This is a minor triumph for me as this is the first Crocus I have grown from seed to flowering. Seed was from the 2006/07 SRGC Seed Ex. and 25 were sown on 29 August 2007. I re-potted in July finding 12 small corms so it should give me a nice pot full next year.

Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Tony Willis on October 09, 2009, 04:52:42 PM
Simon

very nice pictures.I tried to go to the Dadia last year but was thwarted by a petrol strike.

Crocus nerimaiae in flower today.
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: David Nicholson on October 09, 2009, 05:07:15 PM
Lovely Tony.
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Hristo on October 09, 2009, 05:14:06 PM
Gerry, many thanks for your appreciation of my pictures!
Bravo David, a super first to flower crocus species!
David, very very nice indeed!
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: mark smyth on October 09, 2009, 05:28:38 PM
Good to see the variation of puchellus. The double is very fine. I'm sure one day there will be more stable doubles
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Sinchets on October 09, 2009, 05:41:53 PM
This one has 10 petals and 2 lots of stamens but only 1 stigma.
A picture of the doubled flower closing
and Crocus tournefortii flowering this afternoon
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Hristo on October 09, 2009, 05:43:36 PM
Cheers Mark, the variability is mouth watering, we have some growing from seed and are looking forward to seeing what 'emerges'!
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Gerry Webster on October 09, 2009, 05:48:31 PM
Good to see the variation of puchellus. The double is very fine. I'm sure one day there will be more stable doubles
I hope not.
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Gerry Webster on October 09, 2009, 05:53:33 PM
Tony - C. nerimaniae is stunning.
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: I.S. on October 09, 2009, 06:02:58 PM
Simon

very nice pictures.I tried to go to the Dadia last year but was thwarted by a petrol strike.

Crocus nerimaiae in flower today.

Tony very nice one, It remind ne C. biflorus melantherus! What I have seen as C. nerimaniae there was no sign of striped and connective anthers! (they were with fully dark anthers).

Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Maggi Young on October 09, 2009, 06:09:44 PM
David: lovely dark form to your new crocus banaticus.... feels great to have grown them from seed, doesn't it?

Chris and Smon: I hope you are sniffing the Crocus niveus to confirm my assertion that the flowers have the scent of Nerium oleander ???
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Tony Willis on October 09, 2009, 06:18:01 PM
Simon

very nice pictures.I tried to go to the Dadia last year but was thwarted by a petrol strike.

Crocus nerimaiae in flower today.

Tony very nice one, It remind ne C. biflorus melantherus! What I have seen as C. nerimaniae there was no sign of striped and connective anthers! (they were with fully dark anthers).



Ibrahim

nice to hear from you. I do not quite understand what you mean by striped and connective anthers.
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: I.S. on October 09, 2009, 06:25:01 PM
Tony, I mean what I have seen as C. nerimaniae. They were have quite dark anthers and petals were quite sky blue.
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Tony Willis on October 09, 2009, 07:05:37 PM
Ibrahim

I have the description published in 'The Plantsman' June 2004 and it states that the petals are lilac but I suppose it depends on how the sun is shining on them,how our eyes see them and in the case of pictures also the photography. Certainly I would say they were lilac and of course they do have black anthers.
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Anthony Darby on October 09, 2009, 07:24:10 PM
Tony - C. nerimaniae is stunning.


Yep, I agree. 8)
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: tonyg on October 09, 2009, 07:45:28 PM
Put me on the list for seed from Crocus nerimanae - one to lust after ... even if there is no list!

A few more crocus images here
Crocus autranii (or a hybrid with C gilanicus) pollinated - hope it is as generous with seed as Crocus gilanicus.
Crocus boryi - an elegant large flowered form.
Crocus caspius - form with some lilac colour on the outer petals.  Note the distinctive style.
Crocus goulimyi - I love the shape, no other crocus is quite like it.
Crocus tournefortii - my favourite autumn species,  This form has an especially well divided style.
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Armin on October 09, 2009, 07:46:03 PM
Paul Christian at www.rareplants.co.uk. It is no longer listed. I wish I'd ordered three!

If one likes to find "Dream Dancer", click on "Search" on P.C. web page and enter keyword "crocus", select search criteria "all words" and categories "all sections".
You get ttl 105 species photos with descriptions.
"Dream Dancer" is on page 7...

TonyG, beautiful croci stuff - as ususal :D

Chris & Simon, very nice C. pulchellus variants from the wild and other beautiful croci from your garden. 8) Likely the double flowers are just one-time appearance. ;)

David, bravo and congratulations for the fine C. banaticus breeding result.  :D

TonyW, just superb C. nerimaniae 8) or not?

Today we had a sunny morning and my "tall" C. speciosus opened flower. I don't want to deprive it from the forum. ::)
The second photo was taken opposed the sunlight. I like the play of colours. Both are new seedlings appeared in my meadow.
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: mark smyth on October 09, 2009, 07:59:27 PM
Tony is your ?Crocus autranii pollinated by insects or you? Either way it' s well pollinated.
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: tonyg on October 09, 2009, 08:09:53 PM
Tony is your ?Crocus autranii pollinated by insects or you? Either way it' s well pollinated.
By me and my little paintbrush.  Fingers crossed for seed.
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: I.S. on October 09, 2009, 08:17:49 PM
Ibrahim

I have the description published in 'The Plantsman' June 2004 and it states that the petals are lilac but I suppose it depends on how the sun is shining on them,how our eyes see them and in the case of pictures also the photography. Certainly I would say they were lilac and of course they do have black anthers.
Tony. you are right that is a little bit light show. That might be cause of my screen too, it lies on its side!!!

Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Thomas Huber on October 09, 2009, 08:23:18 PM
Here's one that has no label.

Anthony, this is Crocus kotschyanus var leucopharynx. Often sold as C. karduchorum, which it isn't,
it seems just an albino version of kotschyanus with its white style and the white throat.
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Anthony Darby on October 09, 2009, 08:30:27 PM
Thanks Thomas. :)
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Thomas Huber on October 09, 2009, 08:32:25 PM
Gerry - I did wonder about this as I posted the pic.  It can be difficult to distinguish between some lilac forms of C hadriaticus and C thomasii.  However, I have just been down the garden (in my  PJs - a rare lie-in :o) and checked.  The Crocus thomasii pictured has glabrous leaf margins, just the faintest hint  of bristles on the keel.  With the same lens I observed very clear hairs on the leaf margins of Crocus hadriaticus.  So I think we can give this Thomas the benefit of the doubt ;)
Janis article in the CG newsletter that made me realise that I had had a major problem with Pythium, perhaps due to a bad batch of compost.

Tony, Gerry, I have had a look at my thomasii's today and found my own collection without hairs
and plants sent by a friend from Apulia with hairs - so I'm not sure if this is a reliable feature for
distinguishing hadriaticus and thomasii.
My flower colour and striping looks exactly like Tony's plant.
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: annew on October 09, 2009, 08:37:21 PM
Oh dear, croconutosis is striking - first the mental picture of TonyG hurrying down to his greenhouse in his pyjamas and handlens, then Thomas' hairy friend from Apulia.... ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Gerry Webster on October 09, 2009, 09:02:04 PM
Gerry - I did wonder about this as I posted the pic.  It can be difficult to distinguish between some lilac forms of C hadriaticus and C thomasii.  However, I have just been down the garden (in my  PJs - a rare lie-in :o) and checked.  The Crocus thomasii pictured has glabrous leaf margins, just the faintest hint  of bristles on the keel.  With the same lens I observed very clear hairs on the leaf margins of Crocus hadriaticus.  So I think we can give this Thomas the benefit of the doubt ;)
Janis article in the CG newsletter that made me realise that I had had a major problem with Pythium, perhaps due to a bad batch of compost.

Tony, Gerry, I have had a look at my thomasii's today and found my own collection without hairs
and plants sent by a friend from Apulia with hairs - so I'm not sure if this is a reliable feature for
distinguishing hadriaticus and thomasii.
My flower colour and striping looks exactly like Tony's plant.
Oh dear - why can't life be simple? I was prompted to re-examine my supposed C. thomasii when the second corm from the same sowing flowered &  the flower was white. Both the lilac & white flowers had hairs but they are certainly less prominent on these plants than on plants I am sure are  C. hadriaticus (from AnneW) in flower at the moment. In the doubtful plants the throat is not as dramatically yellow but I think this is probably of little significance.
The presence or absence of hairs on the leaves is effectively the only morphological criterion that BM gives for distinguishing C. hadriaticus & C. thomasii . If this goes all we are left with is geographical origin.

Edit-  The lilac plant I originally thought to be C. thomasii is in Reply 41, Oct 02:
http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=4261.30
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Paul T on October 09, 2009, 11:50:08 PM
Great pics as always everyone.  Chris, I love the dark wild pulchellus, and Simon, I lvoe the colouration of your "double" niveus.  Nice blue to it.  8)
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Rodger Whitlock on October 10, 2009, 12:54:33 AM
Attached, a stand of Crocus speciosus 'Albus' in someone's front yard. Outstanding, in my estimation. Clearly the bulbs have been there for quite a long while.
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Anthony Darby on October 10, 2009, 10:06:24 AM
Guess they haven't swept their yard for a while then? ;D
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Luc Gilgemyn on October 10, 2009, 10:51:23 AM
Oh dear, one day away from the Forum and 4 new pages of Crocus.. :o ::)
This kept me from applauding lots of entries !!
What a wealth of beautiful Crocus !!
Thanks for showing everbody !!
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Gerry Webster on October 10, 2009, 11:02:01 AM
Crocus  sp.

Further to my post 240 above. In the light of Thomas’ observations on C.thomasii I am left wondering about the identity of these plants, produced from the same sowing of Archibald seed. Either C. thomasii, as I first thought, together with an albino form? Or C. hadriaticus - my second thought? Or a hybrid?
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Ragged Robin on October 10, 2009, 12:35:58 PM
Attached, a stand of Crocus speciosus 'Albus' in someone's front yard. Outstanding, in my estimation. Clearly the bulbs have been there for quite a long while.

Roger, thanks for this wonderful photo, you do have some interesting gardens around you!  I love the simplicity of this drift of C. speciosus 'Albus' in the dappled light - fab  :)
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Anthony Darby on October 10, 2009, 01:12:35 PM
Crocus mathewii 'Dream Dancer' today, with and without flash. Not bad for a single corm! ;D
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Oron Peri on October 10, 2009, 01:25:48 PM
Crocus mathewii 'Dream Dancer' today, with and without flash. Not bad for a single corm! ;D

That is a beautiful crocus Anthony,
I have noticed it is protected by a net too.
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Anthony Darby on October 10, 2009, 01:33:46 PM
Yes Oron, field mice are a problem in my greenhouse, so the galvanised 'Twilweld' half inch mesh is essential.
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Hans A. on October 10, 2009, 01:35:30 PM
Crocus mathewii 'Dream Dancer' today, with and without flash. Not bad for a single corm! ;D

That is a beautiful crocus Anthony,
I have noticed it is protected by a net too.

Can only agree - great mathewii! :o

Oron, I suppose the net is there because Anthony does not want it flees while he makes holiday.  ;D ;)
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Sinchets on October 10, 2009, 01:54:21 PM
Flowering here today:
Crocus sativus
Crocus speciosus xantholaimos
Crocus kotschyanus kotschyanus

Gerry, JJA had C.thomasii as garden collected seed- so maybe it is a hybrid- but a very beautiful result!
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Ragged Robin on October 10, 2009, 02:12:03 PM
Lovely to see on such a grey day Anthony & Simon, thanks  :)
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Gerry Webster on October 10, 2009, 02:24:48 PM

Gerry, JJA had C.thomasii as garden collected seed- so maybe it is a hybrid- but a very beautiful result!

Yes, Simon, that's one of the problems involved in  growing species from seed derived from cultivated stock. Another is mix-ups; this was supposed to be C. cartwrightianus!
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Oron Peri on October 10, 2009, 02:36:17 PM
Crocus mathewii 'Dream Dancer' today, with and without flash. Not bad for a single corm! ;D

That is a beautiful crocus Anthony,
I have noticed it is protected by a net too.

Can only agree - great mathewii! :o

Oron, I suppose the net is there because Anthony does not want it flees while he makes holiday.  ;D ;)

Well Hans, if i had this form i would have taken it with me where ever i go...including holidays ;)
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Anthony Darby on October 10, 2009, 02:46:00 PM
 ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: I.S. on October 10, 2009, 03:14:26 PM
Flowering here today:
Crocus sativus
Crocus speciosus xantholaimos
Crocus kotschyanus kotschyanus

Gerry, JJA had C.thomasii as garden collected seed- so maybe it is a hybrid- but a very beautiful result!

Simon you have very good crocuses as well!
The last one is not a C. kotschyanus kotschyanus. It looks like C. puchellus!

Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: dominique on October 10, 2009, 05:02:01 PM
Thank all for such nice pics. To day, many many others
Always C. tournefortii
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: dominique on October 10, 2009, 05:05:07 PM
2 forms of Crocus hadriaticus lilacinus (or a wrong identified, help please !), C.S.Oxonian and C.S.xantholaimos
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: dominique on October 10, 2009, 05:07:34 PM
a nice form of Crocus laevigatus from Greece, the very few I have saved from last frost winter
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: dominique on October 10, 2009, 05:09:31 PM
and for the end, for the first time at home, Crocus robertianus
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Luc Gilgemyn on October 10, 2009, 05:22:06 PM
a nice form of Crocus laevigatus from Greece, the very few I have saved from last frost winter

An exquiseit laevigatus Dominique ! 
Great collection  !!
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: mark smyth on October 10, 2009, 05:24:37 PM
Dominique you must have a very warm day today.

Anthony you will have to get a photo of your mathewii is good light for a further comparison.
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: tonyg on October 10, 2009, 05:57:18 PM
and for the end, for the first time at home, Crocus robertianus
Saving the best to last? ;)
Your Crocus robertianus is a stunner.
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: derekb on October 10, 2009, 06:07:59 PM
One from me,
        Crocus pulchellus.
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Gerry Webster on October 10, 2009, 06:12:11 PM
and for the end, for the first time at home, Crocus robertianus
Saving the best to last? ;)
Your Crocus robertianus is a stunner.
Yes it certainly is.
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Anthony Darby on October 10, 2009, 06:21:38 PM
Dominique you must have a very warm day today.

Anthony you will have to get a photo of your mathewii is good light for a further comparison.
It will have to be 2010 Mark.
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Paul T on October 10, 2009, 11:36:17 PM
Anthony,

Your Dream Dancer just got better and better.

Dominique,

That robertianus is a stunner.  Beautiful shape to it. 8)
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Tony Willis on October 11, 2009, 04:11:46 PM
some out today between the storms

Crocus laevigatus
Crocus biflorus ssp melantherus
and two pictures of Crocus robertianus
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Michael J Campbell on October 11, 2009, 04:58:31 PM
Just one today.

Crocus cambessedesii
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Sinchets on October 11, 2009, 05:20:45 PM
Lovely C.cambessedesii, Michael.
Do you have a big of the black anthers, Tony? ;)
Flowering here today (with self-sown Iberis aurosica) Crocus goulimyi leucanthus
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: mark smyth on October 11, 2009, 05:40:25 PM
My first C. chrysanthus, Cream Beauty, and danfordiae are above soil level today
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Tony Willis on October 11, 2009, 06:05:10 PM

Do you have a big of the black anthers, Tony? ;)


Sorry I pulled them off. I have cross pollinated it with nerimanaie to see if it takes and what might turn out.
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: I.S. on October 11, 2009, 06:34:31 PM

Do you have a big of the black anthers, Tony? ;)


Sorry I pulled them off. I have cross pollinated it with nerimanaie to see if it takes and what might turn out.

Tony, it is very interesting I believe it will work :)

Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Melvyn Jope on October 11, 2009, 09:09:59 PM
Four Crocus in full flower today.

C. boryi from North of Sparta
C. cancellatus from Didima
C. goulimyi MELJ 9652 from Monemvassia - now Crocus goulimyi Agia Sofia previously(MELJ 9652)
C. tournefortii from Southern Crete.
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: mark smyth on October 11, 2009, 09:14:05 PM
That's a great looking goulimyi.
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Armin on October 11, 2009, 09:17:39 PM
And a more great looking C. boryi,
with nicely feathered outside markings :o
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Tony Willis on October 11, 2009, 09:20:17 PM
Melvyn

I have the goulimyi in flower,it is very fine.
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Melvyn Jope on October 11, 2009, 09:42:11 PM
Glad its settled in Tony, it does seem to grow and increase at a very satisfactory rate.
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Maggi Young on October 11, 2009, 10:08:42 PM
Oh, my goodness! Well, you all know I adore Crocus, but that dark, luscious goulimyi is just the bee's knees!

I see you have as good an eye for a crocus as you do for your cyclamen, Melvyn  8)
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: mark smyth on October 11, 2009, 10:10:04 PM
Nothing in comparison is one one of pots of C. medius
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Lesley Cox on October 11, 2009, 10:17:20 PM
Oh dear, one day away from the Forum and 4 new pages of Crocus.. :o ::)
This kept me from applauding lots of entries !!
What a wealth of beautiful Crocus !!
Thanks for showing everbody !!

I absolutely feel for you Luc and have the same (pleasant) problem. Just too much I have to do recently, especially at the weekends. There are so many stunning things here that to comment on each is ludicrous but be assured everyone, that your lovely pictures are greatly appreciated.
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Armin on October 11, 2009, 10:21:00 PM
Mark, fabulous C. ligusticus :o ;)
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: mark smyth on October 11, 2009, 10:26:25 PM
Thanks. They were obtained as ex Oliver Wyatt and carry no virus
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: BULBISSIME on October 11, 2009, 10:34:04 PM
Many thank's to everybody for all this Crocuses !
Dominique, magnifique collection, bravo, tes plantes fleurissent aussi chez moi  ;) ( In French in the text  ;D )
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: dominique on October 11, 2009, 10:35:37 PM
Thak you all for such high quality of pics and crocuses, especially laevigatus, boryi and goulimyi of Tony and medius without virus of Mark.
Here, sunshine and some opened
Cocus asumaniae, asumaniae albus and cancellatus sp ?
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: dominique on October 11, 2009, 10:36:56 PM
Crocus goulimyi and Mani white
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: dominique on October 11, 2009, 10:39:02 PM
Crocus hadriaticus, h. lilacinus and h. Tom Blanchard
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: dominique on October 11, 2009, 10:41:58 PM
and for the end Crocus serotinus clusii, serotinus salzmannii and speciosus Oxonian
This crocuses autumn season is so exciting by all these gems that we have and all those we would have if the chance give plenty seeds !
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Armin on October 11, 2009, 10:42:50 PM
Dominique,
seems you had good weather today  :D
Superb species collection!
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: dominique on October 11, 2009, 10:54:25 PM
thank you Armin. You have always so kind words for all !
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: mark smyth on October 11, 2009, 11:43:20 PM
Armin that is a better photo of you. I see many are chanhging so I must get a new one for me

Lovely plants Dominique
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: mark smyth on October 11, 2009, 11:54:58 PM
A few others from me today
pulchellus with extra petals
hadriaticus all white with malformed petaloide anther. All bulbs in the pot have extra petal/s
nudiflorus normal and dark form
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: mark smyth on October 11, 2009, 11:56:05 PM
Is nudiflorus available in other colour forms other than the white 'Orla'?
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Paul T on October 11, 2009, 11:59:30 PM
Melvyn,

That is a cracker of a dark goulimyi.  Excellent form, and so dark.  Your other 3 pics are brilliant too.  They all look like nice species.  I grow other goulimyi here, but never seen anything that dark, and the tournefortii is a great plant isn't it?  The other two I've not seen in person.  Thanks for showing us these beautiful species and varieties.

Mark,

Excellent dark nudiflorus.  :o

Dominique,

Great set of photos.  Thanks for sharing.
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Luc Gilgemyn on October 12, 2009, 10:10:22 AM
Again so many wonderful Crocus !!

Melvyn, the dark goulimyi is breathtaking !
Mark, an impressive potful of medius !!
Dom, that clump of goulimyi outside in the garden looks so beautiful - remember to show it again in a few years - it should be exceptionnal then !!

Thanks everyone !!
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Janis Ruksans on October 12, 2009, 01:01:48 PM
I was for some days out of home - visited Goteborg's Botanical Garden in Sweden, so didn't read entries on Crocus forum. Returned to real winter - all around is white, covered by snow. So crocuses are closed but I can show few pictures from Gothenburg BG.
The best seen - Crocus mathewii with lilac base color which got cultivar's name 'Karin' in honour of greatest Colchicum specialist of today Karin Persson, who find this beuaty in wild together with her husband Jim.
See the malformed flowers of Crocus gilanicus - many flowers has less than 6 flower segments. Most possibly caused by too cool summer.
Excellent blue colored Crocus caspius and C. thomasii.
Janis
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: mark smyth on October 12, 2009, 01:05:24 PM
Karin is lovely!
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: mark smyth on October 12, 2009, 01:07:14 PM
I have a white gouimyi flowering today. Again lost label  ::) I dont know where my labels go. How do I know if it is Mani White or other white forms of goulimyi? It has green spots on the sheaths. I have photos but not edited
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Janis Ruksans on October 12, 2009, 01:09:00 PM
Few more pictures from Goteborg.
Janis


 Crocus robertianus Goteborg.JPG
 Crocus tournefortii.JPG
 Crocus tournefortii Goteborg.JPG
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Janis Ruksans on October 12, 2009, 01:30:54 PM
Only one from my greenhouse today - closed and something malformed (due cold summer) flowers of Crocus nerimaniae.
Janis
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: mark smyth on October 12, 2009, 01:31:40 PM
wow! lovely markings.
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Gerry Webster on October 12, 2009, 02:09:00 PM
I have a white gouimyi flowering today. Again lost label  ::) I dont know where my labels go. How do I know if it is Mani White or other white forms of goulimyi? It has green spots on the sheaths. I have photos but not edited
Mark - as grown by me 'Mani White' has pointed, overlapping tepals. So, when looked at from above it the flower has a definite triangular shape. Also it is creamy-white in colour rather than pure white. Some years it can be strongly scented though mine are not this year There is a photo from Dominique a few posts earlier (though not from above). I might post one in the next day or so.
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: mark smyth on October 12, 2009, 03:11:42 PM
Thanks Gerry. Here it is
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Janis Ruksans on October 12, 2009, 03:30:14 PM
What I have seen as C. nerimaniae there was no sign of striped and connective anthers! (they were with fully dark anthers).


I have striped nerimaniae (1 corm)
Janis
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Janis Ruksans on October 12, 2009, 03:34:14 PM

Crocus autranii (or a hybrid with C gilanicus) pollinated - hope it is as generous with seed as Crocus gilanicus.


By color shade seem to be pure autranii
Janis
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Tony Willis on October 12, 2009, 03:37:39 PM
What I have seen as C. nerimaniae there was no sign of striped and connective anthers! (they were with fully dark anthers).


I have striped nerimaniae (1 corm)
Janis

I think Ibrahim was referring to the anthers which are black before they ripen and then they split down each edge to reveal the pollen appearing striped.

Janis I think they need a warm sunny day to open and are not the easiest to grow.Here is another of mine flowering today which has a nicely marked tube.

I have seen many in the wild and they are very uniform.
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: tonyg on October 12, 2009, 03:43:50 PM
I was for some days out of home - visited Goteborg's Botanical Garden in Sweden, so didn't read entries on Crocus forum. Returned to real winter - all around is white, covered by snow. So crocuses are closed but I can show few pictures from Gothenburg BG.
See the malformed flowers of Crocus gilanicus - many flowers has less than 6 flower segments. Most possibly caused by too cool summer.
Janis
This looks like the form I grow which produces flowers with 4, 5 or 6 petals.  Seems healthy.
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Janis Ruksans on October 12, 2009, 03:55:54 PM
See the malformed flowers of Crocus gilanicus - many flowers has less than 6 flower segments. Most possibly caused by too cool summer.
Janis
This looks like the form I grow which produces flowers with 4, 5 or 6 petals.  Seems healthy.
[/quote]

In Goteborg stock was healthy
Janis
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Janis Ruksans on October 12, 2009, 04:05:27 PM

Janis I think they need a warm sunny day to open and are not the easiest to grow.Here is another of mine flowering today which has a nicely marked tube.

I have seen many in the wild and they are very uniform.

Yes, the weather is very poor here in last days, and I'm afraid no sun will be this week. Blooming in general is much poorer than year before.
With me nerimaniae seems more hardy than wattiorum (wattiorum suffered last winter, nerimaniae - not). This autumn it blooms better than wattiorum, last has very small and thin flowers, may be for smaller size of corms after difficult winter and cool summer. By color it is quite uniform, only one specimen of my collection has slightly striped back of petals, generally variation is in base color and shape. I don't think that it is very difficult, of course - not the easiest.
Janis
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: art600 on October 12, 2009, 04:06:04 PM
Two more examples of Crocus mathewii

The first was grown from Crocus Group seed - there should be more in the pot.

When Keith Moorhouse died earlier this year, I was invited to buy his Access frame and the bulbs within.  The second mathewii was an un-named corm (sadly only one) from the frame.
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Melvyn Jope on October 12, 2009, 06:02:42 PM
Arthur, how nice to have such a superb plant come from an un-named pot!

The photo is another form of Crocus cancellatus from Didima in flower today, I like the bold markings on this one.
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Gerry Webster on October 12, 2009, 06:15:42 PM
Thanks Gerry. Here it is
Mark - that doesn't look like 'Mani White' as I know it. I photographed mine today but the photo - taken in a rush -  was poor. I'll try again tomorrow.
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Sinchets on October 12, 2009, 06:37:23 PM
What a lovely C.cancellatus, Melvyn.
Flowering here today
more Crocus tournefortii
and also one that has me stumped- any ideas?
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: tonyg on October 12, 2009, 06:42:45 PM
and also one that has me stumped- any ideas?
Simon - petals look like C speciosus, creamy anthers suggest a hybrid with Crocus pulchellus.
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Sinchets on October 12, 2009, 07:08:22 PM
Thanks, Tony. Any chance it could be a hybrid with C.speciosus ilgazensis?
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Janis Ruksans on October 12, 2009, 07:14:39 PM
and also one that has me stumped- any ideas?
Simon - petals look like C speciosus, creamy anthers suggest a hybrid with Crocus pulchellus.
I agree. Style seem to be undeveloped.
Janis
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: mark smyth on October 12, 2009, 08:49:32 PM
Here are come of my Crocus today
 
From front to back

pulchellus and culivars
goulimyi and cultivars
medius - I would love to get my hands on a white one or two. Is there such a plant?
serotinus serotinus and clusii and a couple of kotschyanus
speciosus and cultivars
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: mark smyth on October 12, 2009, 10:14:48 PM
Here's a good goulimyi ex TB via TG. Not as dark as Melvyns but a good colour

and serotinus SF221

this goulimyi looks like the styles have fused with the anthers.
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Lesley Cox on October 12, 2009, 10:59:59 PM
Now that our southern crocuses are well over, it is a great thrill to see these wonderful flowers from the north. Even though many of the same appear each year, every one is as welcome here as it is in the garden. My warmest thanks to every poster.
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: tonyg on October 12, 2009, 11:25:45 PM
A few more from Norfolk.

Crocus thomasii - 2 different forms both raised from garden seed
Crocus pallasii - the good and the bad!
Crocus tournefortii - 2 forms again but both delicious!
Crocus oreocreticus
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: mark smyth on October 12, 2009, 11:50:57 PM
Tony I know who is TG but who is TB?
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Paul T on October 13, 2009, 02:04:41 AM
The blue based mathewii are beautiful, partcularly the 'Karin'.  Thanks to all for showing their various photos.... wonderful for those of us out of the crocus flowering season.  ;D
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: BULBISSIME on October 13, 2009, 06:47:29 AM
You're right paul, as very nice for us to see Tulipa and Irises flowering now in another posts !!  ;D ;)
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Janis Ruksans on October 13, 2009, 04:38:40 PM
Today at few moments clouds were something thinner and some flowers opened. Still last C. vallicola stocks (turkish) continue blooming showing variability of this wonderful species. Blooms bluish form of Crocus gilanicus, but flowers remained only half open as with C. nerimaniae, too.
Janis
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Janis Ruksans on October 13, 2009, 04:43:12 PM
Another few crocuses pictured today. Don't know will be possible to picture something tomorrow. The weather broadcast informs that heavy snowstorm tonight will reach my part of Latvia. The temperature in afternoon started to drop and now is only +2 C.
Janis
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Armin on October 13, 2009, 05:28:03 PM
TonyG and Janis: superb croci you have :o

I admit having real difficulties to distinguish between C. thomasii, C. oreocreticus and Tony's "good one" C. pallasii. >:(
Especial Tony's photos of oreocreticus and pallasii looking so similar ??? 
Opposite to Tony's pallasii, the from Janis shows has such comparatively small anthers and style - very variable and all are real beauties 8)
No wonder - phylogenetical they are all more or less close related :P
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Gerry Webster on October 13, 2009, 05:50:43 PM
Crocus ligusticus ( = C. medius)

From Crocus Group seed ex a David Stephens coll. (DBS98-47). Italy, Liguria, between Carcare & Ferrania.
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: mark smyth on October 13, 2009, 06:13:55 PM
very nice Gerry. Will you take it again tomorrow without a shadow over please? Even with the shadow it looks great
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Gerry Webster on October 13, 2009, 06:19:55 PM
very nice Gerry. Will you take it again tomorrow without a shadow over please? Even with the shadow it looks great
I had a couple without a shadow but the colour was all wrong. I'll see what's possible tomorrow.
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Thomas Huber on October 13, 2009, 06:43:20 PM
Crocus ligusticus ( = C. medius)

From Crocus Group seed ex a David Stephens coll. (DBS98-47). Italy, Liguria, between Carcare & Ferrania.
Gerry, I see your Crocus medius is also very small this year. I observed this in my collection, too.
Might have to do with the long, hot and dry summer? Last year my plants were nearly double in size!
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Gerry Webster on October 13, 2009, 08:53:43 PM
Crocus ligusticus ( = C. medius)

From Crocus Group seed ex a David Stephens coll. (DBS98-47). Italy, Liguria, between Carcare & Ferrania.
Gerry, I see your Crocus medius is also very small this year. I observed this in my collection, too.
Might have to do with the long, hot and dry summer? Last year my plants were nearly double in size!
Yes Thomas, I thought it was rather small though I'm not sure why. Summer here was not particularly hot. For a number of years I used to keep my plants outside & uncovered but they never flowered. Now I keep them completely dry but cool when dormant & they flower but I'm not sure how to treat them for best flowering.
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Janis Ruksans on October 14, 2009, 09:27:52 AM
Some of my crocuses are very small this autumn, too. Suppose the reason is cold summer as the blooming started later, too. At moment only one picture (darkest blue C. goulimyi ever seen by me) from yesterday as now outside is horrible weather - so strong wind that I just returned from cutting of falen trees closing my road for postman. Hope my greenhouses will not be blown away. :) Yesterday suddenly became so cold that I freesed making notes in grenhouise that even can't keep pencil  in my fingers more  :'( and as result - some flue just 2 days before trip to Crimean mountains for pictures of Crocus pallasii.
Janis
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Armin on October 14, 2009, 09:48:50 AM
Gerry,
regardless of the size your C. ligusticus, for my taste, is a stunner  :o
I just imagine the strong contrast of the radial white center with red style surrounded by the dark blue pedals in full sunshine. A delight.

Janis,
excellent color and photograph of C. goulimyi. 8) We are also touched by the arctic cold stream. Had -1°C frost 7:00 AM, very early this year. I better do not look to my crocus flowers outside otherwise I would loose my good mood. :D
Wish you few storm damages and a fast recovery of your caught flu.
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Ragged Robin on October 14, 2009, 10:45:24 AM
So excited to see the first noses of Crocus sativus up in my raised rockery bed  ;D
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Gerry Webster on October 14, 2009, 11:03:49 AM
Gerry,
regardless of the size your C. ligusticus, for my taste, is a stunner  :o
I just imagine the strong contrast of the radial white center with red style surrounded by the dark blue pedals in full sunshine. A delight.
Thanks Armin. Yes, it is very attractive, though my photo doesn't really do it justice. No sunshine here today so it remains closed.
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Viola on October 14, 2009, 04:57:27 PM
I ask for your help. Who knows this Crocus?
You come the Mount Olympus in GR from the north.
Thank you Karl
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: tonyg on October 14, 2009, 05:11:41 PM
I ask for your help. Who knows this Crocus?
You come the Mount Olympus in GR from the north.
Thank you Karl
First impression says it is Crocus speciosus.  Although this has only recently been reported from Greece and should not have a yellow throat, so  ???.  The other possible is Crocus cancelleatus ssp mazziaricus.  A check of the corm tunic would help, papery for speciosus and netted for cancellatus.
It's a beauty whatever it is.
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Janis Ruksans on October 14, 2009, 06:37:19 PM
I more tend to cancellatus mazziaricus. I have some very similar samples, but of course Tony is right - must to check corm tunics for determination. I'm attaching picture of one of my cancellatus mazziaricus.
Janis
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: David Nicholson on October 14, 2009, 07:20:36 PM
The last few days of sunny and mild weather has brought the Crocuses on a treat. These from today.

Crocus asumaniae-this one from Tony Willis in 2008.
C. speciosus xantholaimos x pulchellus from Tony Goode also in 2008.
C. pulchellus, another from the Tony Willis 'stable'.
C. serotinus ssp. clusii 'Poseidon'
C. goulimyi grown from 2006/07 SRGC Seed Ex. seed, sown 29 August 2007.

Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: mark smyth on October 14, 2009, 07:47:10 PM
The black pollen in your Crocus speciosus xantholaimos x pulchellus looks better than the white pollen on my plants
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: mark smyth on October 14, 2009, 08:59:50 PM
I am happy to be able to recognise at least one Crocus speciosus in my collection. Great corms with two and three emerging noses. How they will be in the future time will tell.
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Viola on October 15, 2009, 05:13:56 AM
Thank Tony and Janis. I also think that it is Cr.cancellatus ssp.mazzearicus, the nodule is surrounded by a strong Netzt.
Karl
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Paul T on October 15, 2009, 07:06:02 AM
Wow, Mark.  That is a beautiful speciosum.

Janis,

That purple heart cartwrightianus and the striped vallicollas are gorgeous, and that wonderfully dark anthered nerimaniae is amazing.  All so very different. Thanks for showing us.

And thanks to everyone else posting their corcus pics.  Beautiful, everyone!  8) 8)
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Janis Ruksans on October 15, 2009, 07:25:03 AM
Cleaning desktop found that I didn't posted one picture from earlier days and as today after yesterdays hurricane (roofs and greenhouses are on place) weather is muddy, cloudy and no hope for new pictures I'm posting this one of Crocus kotschyanus Albus. Never before it was so gorgeous as this autumn.
Janis
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Luc Gilgemyn on October 15, 2009, 07:59:07 AM
Truly gorgeous Janis !!
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Hristo on October 15, 2009, 09:18:49 AM
I must second Paul, great to see so many crocus species and selections! A real tonic.

We took possibly our last window of opportunity yesterday to go see if we could find Crocus pallasii. Simon had a hunch that it might be found in area called Kaliakra on the Black Sea coast. Not listed here by Flora Bulgarica it seemed to make sense as this area was congruent with the Crimea before the formation of the Black Sea. Kaliakra is home to a number of relicts such as Adonis volgensis and Paeonia tenuifolia as well as a number of Balkan / Bulgarian endemics ( to be posted elsewhere ).
Never in large numbers we found individual flowers amongst the limestone pavement, probably only beginning to flower during the last few days as there has been heavy rainfall and temperatures have dropped greatly. Appologies for the poorer than normal quality of the flower pics, but I had to photograph them inbetween watching them beating themselves to bits on the ground as the winds from the north battered them!!

Janis, look forward to seeing how the Crimean C.pallasii compare!
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Luc Gilgemyn on October 15, 2009, 09:42:04 AM
Most interesting Chris !!
Learning every day here on the forum !  8)
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Hristo on October 15, 2009, 09:54:37 AM
Thanks Luc, the day we stop learning is the day lots of people say nice things about us, eat buns and eye up our crocus collections! ;)
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Ragged Robin on October 15, 2009, 10:00:15 AM
Truly gorgeous Janis !!


I agree whole heartedly with Luc, Janis, thank goodness you found it on your desktop to show us its beauty
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Janis Ruksans on October 15, 2009, 02:36:55 PM

Janis, look forward to seeing how the Crimean C.pallasii compare!

I'm flying to Kiev tomorrow and then by night train to Crimea. Weather broadcast not very favourable, but hope to picture something. Will be back on Tuesday.
Janis
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Tony Willis on October 15, 2009, 02:53:01 PM
Some in flower with me at the moment.

First a nice coloured Crocus pallasii

Crocus goulimyi from my collection and then the very fine one from Melvyn (apologies I have mislabeled the pictures as boryi)
Two Crocus pulchellus one normal sized one from Ulu Dag and then a very large one from Mt Vertisikos in Greece. A picture of them together to show the contrast in size

Finally a Crocus cancellatus from near Marmaris Turkey

Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: WimB on October 15, 2009, 04:22:20 PM
One that is flowering here outside now:

Crocus goulimyi
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Ragged Robin on October 15, 2009, 05:02:16 PM
Tony, your crocus are so beautiful and the way you have photographed them is remarkable, thank you for such a wonderful sight  :)
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Tony Willis on October 15, 2009, 05:21:29 PM
thank you it seems to have been a reasonable autumn and quite pleasing that so many have flowered.
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Armin on October 15, 2009, 05:50:15 PM
Chris,
a very nice C. pallasii with broad pedals 8) A bit pity that there was not enough sunshine to open the flowers completely.

TonyW,
wow :o - that a very nice striking C. pallasii too.
Also the C. goulimyi is nicely striped.
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Sinchets on October 15, 2009, 06:07:24 PM
First a nice coloured Crocus pallasii
Nicely coloured Crocus pallasii,Tony. I assume this is C.pallasii pallasii as it looks similar to one I have here from Cambridge bulbs also collected in Turkey, from Antalya if my records are correct. What I do find interesting is that the paller, fuller flowered forms we have shown here from northeast Bulgaria, are still classed with these from Turkey as C.pallasii pallasii. Whilst narrower, darker formed kinds are C.pallasii dispathaceus or even just C.dispathaceus. Looking at the Crocus pages ours in Bulgaria seem to have more in common with C.pallasii haussknechtii. Pictures of plants we have seen posted from localities in the Rodopi, actually look more like the pictures show here of Turkish C.pallasii pallasii, and presumably they look this way in Greece too. As Chris mentioned Cape Kaliakra is famous as being the only place in Bulgaria where many normally Crimean flora and fauna can be found.
All this is a matter of opinion I know, but sadly the Bulgarian flora is much understudied and seemingly of little interest to the lumpers and splitters.  ;)
It will be interesting to see what the ones in Crimea, which Janis hopes to find, look like.
BTW where in Greece is Mt Vertisikos please?
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: tonyg on October 15, 2009, 07:20:13 PM
Simon
Very interesting to see Bulgarian Crocus pallasii.  As Mathew lists S & E Bulgaria for it, I think it is probably best to leave it as ssp pallasii although this can  be something of a catch-all taxa.  I have grown ssp haussknechtii which is quite distinct in flower, sometimes having a pale cream colour on the outer petals.  I may have grown ssp turcicus which often has rather narrow petalled flowers but as ssp pallasii also grows in Turkey some of my seed raisings are difficult to ascribe one way or the other!  The pic of ssp dispathaceus on Crocus Pages is of a plant that David Stephens (another collection holder) grew.  Very distinct and impossible to confuse with the other taxa.

.....Can you go back and check the variability in a couple of weeks ..... oh and again for seed in the spring :D
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Janis Ruksans on October 15, 2009, 07:58:18 PM
Simon
Very interesting to see Bulgarian Crocus pallasii.  As Mathew lists S & E Bulgaria for it, I think it is probably best to leave it as ssp pallasii although this can  be something of a catch-all taxa. 
.....Can you go back and check the variability in a couple of weeks ..... oh and again for seed in the spring :D

I think that Bulgarian-Crimean are very similar and by my opinion they are different from pallasii pallasii from Turkey. But this is viewpoint of gardener, without scientific background. How looks Crimean plants you can see earlier on my entries in this topic (or in September).
Janis
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Gerry Webster on October 15, 2009, 09:40:15 PM
Crocus ligusticus (formerly C. medius)

Received three years ago from Hythe Alpines, this appears to be a selection from the common trade form -  which is usually virused. In the time this form  has been with me it has shown no sign of virus infection.

(my apologies for the junk in the background).
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Sinchets on October 15, 2009, 09:57:01 PM
Simon
Very interesting to see Bulgarian Crocus pallasii. 
....Can you go back and check the variability in a couple of weeks ..... oh and again for seed in the spring :D
Unfortunately that was our last trip to that area this year. Winter is drawing in for us. We do plan to visit seed hunting next spring- hopefully at the right time to see Paeonia tenuifolia and Adonis vernalis in the same area of limestone pavement and a sea cliff population of Paeonia peregrina.
I am also intrigued as to whether Crocus biflorus will be found here too- given the fantastic pics Janis showed from Crimea eariler this year!

Thanks, Janis. The Bulgarian distribution of C.pallasii seems to be quite disjunct with the northern and southern populations separated by the central mountain belt and land use changes along the coast. We hope to find the southern populations in the Rodopi in the next few weeks.
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Eric Locke on October 15, 2009, 10:00:05 PM
It is a shame Hythe Alpines is no more. :'( :'( :'(
I hope they are having a good retirement though.


Eric
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Gerry Webster on October 15, 2009, 10:18:04 PM
It is a shame Hythe Alpines is no more. :'( :'( :'(
I hope they are having a good retirement though.
Eric
My sentiments exactly. A superb nursery  -  much missed
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Lesley Cox on October 15, 2009, 10:20:44 PM
So many wonderful pictures of so many stunning crocuses. Many thanks to all who have shared them with the currently crocus-deprived. :'(
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Paul T on October 16, 2009, 02:35:40 AM
Tony,

I love the stripey pallasii and that wonderful striped goulimyi.  Excellent form and markings.  :o :o
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Janis Ruksans on October 16, 2009, 06:00:19 AM
Crocus ligusticus (formerly C. medius)

Received three years ago from Hythe Alpines, this appears to be a selection from the common trade form -  which is usually virused. In the time this form  has been with me it has shown no sign of virus infection.

Looks healthy!
Janis
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Tony Willis on October 16, 2009, 11:58:02 AM
First a nice coloured Crocus pallasii

BTW where in Greece is Mt Vertisikos please?

It is NE of Thessalonika. I only passed over the lower slopes and in mid May it was hot and dry
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Sinchets on October 16, 2009, 12:19:59 PM
Thanks, Tony- found it on the map as Mount Vertiskos. We are hoping for one last trip to northern Greece before winter.
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: mark smyth on October 16, 2009, 05:21:24 PM
Last week we touched briefly on Crocus supplied correct or wrong from a well known supplier. I was owed from last year for the lovely dark korolkowii 'Dysticus' that turned out to be ordinary korolkowiii. I used my credit to buy some autumn Crocus. The first one is up and showing a very nice deep blue nose. It's supposed to be the frickin' white form. Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: udo on October 16, 2009, 05:24:18 PM
Here a Crocus pallasii ssp pallasii in the southern turkey, 1800 m over sea-level,
one day before falling the first rain.
Habitat from this Crocus.
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: mark smyth on October 16, 2009, 05:39:13 PM
Dirk are you in Turkey now?
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: mark smyth on October 16, 2009, 05:41:26 PM
Here is my white Crocus. Answers on a post card to Mark Smyth 43 Birch Hill .....

It will open tomorrow but I am away all day at the local AGS lecture. Robert Rolfe is the speaker.
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: udo on October 16, 2009, 05:55:27 PM
Mark,
yes , i comes back today.
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: mark smyth on October 16, 2009, 05:58:52 PM
How many species did you see?
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Sinchets on October 16, 2009, 06:37:28 PM
Thanks, Dirk. It really is quite different in petal shape to the ones we saw.
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Ragged Robin on October 16, 2009, 06:55:14 PM
Great to see Crocus pallasii ssp pallasii beside a photo of its habitiat, Dirk, it looks pretty dry in the Alacabel pass   8)
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: udo on October 16, 2009, 07:10:49 PM
Mark, i see only Cr.pallasii.
Certain to early and to dry for other species in this region.
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Luc Gilgemyn on October 17, 2009, 03:26:37 PM
04.25 p.m. here and no Crocuses posted yet today...  :(
I'll try to do something about that !

Flowering out in the garden over the last few weeks and days :
Some Forum members might recognize their babies..  ;D
1) Crocus banaticus - from Annew
2) Crocus boryi - from Tony G.
3) Crocus medius (now ligusticus  :-\) - from Mark

Thanks to all for getting me into Croconutism !
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Luc Gilgemyn on October 17, 2009, 03:28:17 PM
And one more - this one grown in a pot :

A very nice dark feathered form of Crocus laevigatus - I like it Gerry !!  ;)

Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Sinchets on October 17, 2009, 04:49:36 PM
Thanks Luc, for showing some lovely flowers and a blue sky!
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Hristo on October 17, 2009, 06:01:38 PM
Luc, cracking crocus and super pics, well grown plants, a credit to you and their doners!
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: David Nicholson on October 17, 2009, 06:51:14 PM
Nice ones Luc.
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: dominique on October 17, 2009, 06:53:44 PM
Thank you Luc. All fine look. Dirk, thanks, nice natural site
Here, Crocus asumaniae, last one
2 forms of hadriaticus, the second gived me for C. niveus
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: dominique on October 17, 2009, 06:57:49 PM
Crocus kotschyanus and niveus, white form with a very light blue at apex at the end of the bloom
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: dominique on October 17, 2009, 07:01:54 PM
first time flowering Crocus pallasii after 4 years after sown, Crocus pulchellus and Crocus salzmannii albus
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: dominique on October 17, 2009, 07:04:24 PM
and for the end te last flowers of C.speciosus xantholaimos and C. tournefortii Albus
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Luc Gilgemyn on October 17, 2009, 07:06:20 PM
An impressive series Dominique !!
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: I.S. on October 18, 2009, 12:01:00 AM
Dominique, very nine crocuses!
What I think about your C. pallasii,
it is C. palasii subsp. dispathaceus with orange style while the other subsp. has red style.
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Graeme Strachan on October 18, 2009, 01:10:57 AM
The sun was shining today so I took a few photos:-
08880b pulchellus albus
08875b speciosus?
08906b speciosus oxonian?
08913b eight petal mutant (bought as speciosus albus)

If anyone can confirm their i.d. I would be obliged.

         regards

             Graeme
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: dominique on October 18, 2009, 06:47:36 AM
Thank you Ibrahim for id.
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Ragged Robin on October 18, 2009, 08:57:57 AM
And one more - this one grown in a pot :

A very nice dark feathered form of Crocus laevigatus - I like it Gerry !!  ;)



So do I...... really lovely looking crocus, happy as anything with you, Luc  :D

Knowing their 'roots' makes them all the more special  ;)
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Regelian on October 18, 2009, 01:21:09 PM
here are a few fotos from this morning.  We had enough sun to open the blossoms.  The IDs are tentative, as I have long lost the labels, so please correct me, if you believe otherwise.  Also, do we decline this genus with -us or -um?  I have seen both versions and am unsure what the protocol is.  I thought Crocus was a masculine genus, but it may be neutrum.

C. ochroleucusspeciosus albus
C. goulimyi
C. speciosus
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Oron Peri on October 18, 2009, 01:51:06 PM
Jamie

Looks more like cancellatus mazziaricus, it is quite different from ochroleucus.
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Armin on October 18, 2009, 02:02:21 PM
Oron,
I had the same idea but it could be C. speciosus "albus" too.
C. ochroleucus has white anthers and a different style.
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Oron Peri on October 18, 2009, 02:12:47 PM
Armin

I first thought that it might be speciosus Albus too but the style in the photo is less lanceolate at the tips.
Off course it was easier if we had seen the corm, or at least the bract and bracteole,
maybe Jamie can take a photo of the lower part, also cancellat us is usually striped at its neck . ???
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Regelian on October 18, 2009, 03:07:09 PM
Thanks for helping, guys.  I've attached two side views for your perusal.  I had doubts, as well, but, as Arim noted, cancellatus should have basal stripes on the outside and the anthers are a bit strange for speciosus.  Still, I am far from an expert in this genus and don't really know what to look for.  I simply read descriptions and attempt to illiminate the obvious.

fotos are now identified as C. specisosus albus
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Oron Peri on October 18, 2009, 03:12:11 PM
Thanks Jamie

After seeing it better i would join Armin,
speciosus Albus.
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Regelian on October 18, 2009, 03:26:57 PM
Great,
 I can now give it a proper ID tag in the garden (and my files!)
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Armin on October 18, 2009, 03:56:33 PM
Jamie,
C. speciosus "Albus" is an old cultivar from 1913 (registered by Tubergen).
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Lesley Cox on October 18, 2009, 08:10:59 PM
Jamie, we always seem to use "us" rather then "um" for Crocus, even Mathew and the like. In any case, we never decline Crocus, we always accept. :D
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Gerry Webster on October 18, 2009, 08:48:33 PM
Also, do we decline this genus with -us or -um?  I have seen both versions and am unsure what the protocol is. I thought Crocus was a masculine genus, but it may be neutrum.

Crocus is masculine, therefore the specific epithet, if it is an adjective, should agree: C. longiflorus, C. sativus, C. pulchellus, etc. Nouns and proper names, used as specific epithets, are not affected by the gender of the specific name, so:  C. asumaniae, C. mathewii, C.goulimyi, etc. [ 'Stearn's Dictionary of Plant Names for Gardeners', W.T. Stearn (1992)]
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Maggi Young on October 18, 2009, 09:11:28 PM
The sun was shining today so I took a few photos:-
08880b pulchellus albus
08875b speciosus?
08906b speciosus oxonian?
08913b eight petal mutant (bought as speciosus albus)

If anyone can confirm their i.d. I would be obliged.

         regards

             Graeme


Nice flowers, Graham..... I must have blinked when the sun came out! Names okay, I reckon... the last one; 08913b eight petal mutant  is a speciosus , just a bit wonky!
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Regelian on October 18, 2009, 10:03:06 PM
Thanks, Gerry, 

I had thought it was masculine, as Crocus was a character from Greek mythology, but you never know.

Leslie,

you're such a treat! :-*
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Graeme Strachan on October 18, 2009, 10:48:40 PM
Quote
Posted by: Maggi Young 
Insert Quote
Quote from: Graeme Strachan on Today at 01:10:57 AM
The sun was shining today so I took a few photos:-
08880b pulchellus albus
08875b speciosus?
08906b speciosus oxonian?
08913b eight petal mutant (bought as speciosus albus)

If anyone can confirm their i.d. I would be obliged.

         regards

             Graeme



Nice flowers, Graham..... I must have blinked when the sun came out! Names okay, I reckon... the last one; 08913b eight petal mutant  is a speciosus , just a bit wonky!
 

Maggi - Much appreciated.
I quite like my wonky speciosus.

          Graeme
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Anthony Darby on October 19, 2009, 09:11:21 AM
I came home to find that meeces have grazed my Crocus mathewii leaves. >:( I got one last night! :P
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Viola on October 19, 2009, 12:54:19 PM
Some are flourishing, beautiful Crocus, in my garden at the moment
Karl

Crocus thomasii of Croatia
Crocus cartwrightianus
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Viola on October 19, 2009, 01:08:22 PM
Further Crocus from my garden. Rain and ice have destroyed many flowers yesterday.
Karl

Crocus goulimyi
Crocus goulimyi ssp. leucanthus
Crocus cotschyanus
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Luc Gilgemyn on October 19, 2009, 01:19:36 PM
Beautiful display Karl !!

The Kotschyanus drift looks wonderful !  8)
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: mark smyth on October 19, 2009, 01:24:16 PM
here's a stunning laevigatus Albus received recently
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: mark smyth on October 19, 2009, 01:32:32 PM
Karl thanks for showing Crocus in your garden.

Here's C. cancellatus ssp pamphylicus
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Luc Gilgemyn on October 19, 2009, 01:57:40 PM
here's a stunning laevigatus Albus received recently

 ??? ???

... but the cancellatus is a beauty Mark !!
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Sinchets on October 19, 2009, 03:10:27 PM
Flowering today in a brief moment between thunder and rain:
Crocus hadriaticus hadriaticus
Crocus goulimyi leucanthus
Crocus tournefortii- to show colour change after a few nights just above 0C- the effect is a milky blue in real life
Crocus medius (virused?)
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: mark smyth on October 19, 2009, 03:11:04 PM
Luc it's a Crocus supplied by a well known supplier. These are to replace a wrong Crocus supplied last year ::)
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Luc Gilgemyn on October 19, 2009, 03:20:59 PM
Wonderful Crocus, Simon !! Despite the rain !

Don't get nervous Mark !  Keep trying !  ;)
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: tonyg on October 19, 2009, 03:28:12 PM
Further Crocus from my garden. Rain and ice have destroyed many flowers yesterday.
Karl
Crocus kotschyanus
Wonderful display Karl .. pity about the weather.  At least the leaves are safely under ground so no long term damage to the C kotschyanus.
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Thomas Huber on October 19, 2009, 03:28:43 PM
Mark, there must be something wrong with my screen: Your laevigatus Albus looks blue  ??? >:( Which supplier?

Great photos, Karl and Simon (your medius is surely virused!!!)
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: tonyg on October 19, 2009, 03:30:47 PM
Flowering today in a brief moment between thunder and rain
Crocus medius (virused?)
Agree with Thomas I am afraid :(
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: mark smyth on October 19, 2009, 03:37:11 PM
Thomas I am sure you can guess who.

A few more from today
cartwrightianus
cartwrightianus white form
?cancellatus ex Kath Dryden. Tony or Thomas is this correct?
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: mark smyth on October 19, 2009, 03:49:19 PM
Something other than me has been very busy inside this white banaticus.

Does anyone what to say which speciosus this is? Also shown above as laevigatus white form
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: ashley on October 19, 2009, 03:57:10 PM
Does anyone what to say which speciosus this is?

The dark tube suggests Oxonian.

Great pictures as usual Mark.
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: mark smyth on October 19, 2009, 04:00:59 PM
Thanks Ashely for both comments
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Thomas Huber on October 19, 2009, 04:07:33 PM
Thomas I am sure you can guess who.

Same as always? - never ordered from him, and it seems I will never do so in future  >:(

Cancellatus looks like the trade form, formerly sold as cancellatus var cilicius. A good garden plant even for the open garden.
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: mark smyth on October 19, 2009, 04:24:48 PM
He obviously buys in Dutch Crocus or surplus from those with big collections and have surplus corms
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Gerry Webster on October 19, 2009, 08:11:29 PM
He obviously buys in Dutch Crocus or surplus from those with big collections and have surplus corms

I think that most of the larger bulb suppliers in the UK import at least some of their offerings from the Netherlands. And I know that at least one of the smaller suppliers also used to do so - Dutch bulbs are cheap. However, I'm fairly sure that some of the more exotic bulbs offered by the supplier to whom you refer come from Antoine Hoog who, I believe, is now in France (Brittany). Someone who certainly bought surplus bulbs (of excellent quality) from collectors was Mike Smith of Hythe Alpines - he told me so & I have some.
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Janis Ruksans on October 20, 2009, 05:45:27 AM

Crocus medius (virused?)

Yes, without any doubt.
Janis
P.S. Correct name - ligusticus
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Janis Ruksans on October 20, 2009, 05:47:40 AM
Does anyone what to say which speciosus this is?

The dark tube suggests Oxonian.

Great pictures as usual Mark.

YES, Oxonian.
Janis
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Paul T on October 20, 2009, 06:25:42 AM
I don't look at this topic for a couple of days and BANG, there's 4 more pages!!  :o :o  Some beauties in here, but I think the highlight of unusualness for me is the white and white with dark stripes cartwrightianus.  Striking, and something I haven't seen before (although there are a LOT of Crocus in this topic that I have never seen before!  ;D).

Thanks everyone!  8)
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: mark smyth on October 20, 2009, 09:17:53 AM
Paul here are my three white cartwrightianus. All my whites are in two pots and I have some away this year. Did they get all white or the one with the darker veins?
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Gerry Webster on October 20, 2009, 10:20:07 AM
Crocus serotinus subsp. clusii  'Poseidon'
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: mark smyth on October 20, 2009, 10:48:54 AM
I'm very confused about serotinus and it's cultivars in my collection. They all look the same to me except for two - 'Gwendoline Edwards' and a very pale form with darker feathering
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Paul T on October 20, 2009, 11:32:52 AM
Mark,

Have you been doing any hand pollinating of the white cartwrightianus? 
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: mark smyth on October 20, 2009, 01:42:12 PM
Yes and to your second question - yes no problem
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Janis Ruksans on October 20, 2009, 03:29:54 PM
Yesterday returned from my Crimean trip to picture Crocus pallasii, but today all the day passed in the greenhouse picturing flowers, taking off wilted blooms. Destroyed all stock of salzmannii erectophyllus - 100% virus, got it only last autumn. Garden was visited by roe-deers who ate flower segments, leaving flower tubes as narrow white pencils...
I'm attaching few pictures of Crocus pallasii subsp. pallasii pictured on Kaya-bash seaside steppe at altitude ~300 meters. The night after our visit there was first rain during all summer, so soil was absolutely dry. Crocuses formed new roots, but they started to dry (looked as infected with root-rot - Pythium). So flowers mostly were with hot damaged segments. There were many dried and many only coming, so good density was only occasional and not for pictures. Very rarely we found white specimens. C. pallasii is very rare in Crimea and Kaya-bash really are the place with greatest density protected by military base at this spot during Soviet regime. Now it is free to access but soon wild ecosystems will be destroyed as after militarists left good roads, elctrolines and there will be built up villas, sporting spots etc. So may be those are last pictures...
Janis
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Janis Ruksans on October 20, 2009, 03:49:23 PM
Some more pictures from Kaya-bash where Crimean Crocus pallasii still grow.
Returning late evening to Sevastopol we decided next morning return to Simferopol and to go to Tschatir-dag where in spring I saw C. speciosus leaves covering ground as grass. A year before I pictured C. speciosus on top of yaila, now we went by bottom of gorge. Unfortunately we didn't found soil "covered by flowers" as I hoped. There were plenty of wilted flowers, plenty of sharp buds, but only few open flowers. As day was quite dark, in gorge it was even darker. So only one picture of C. speciosus attached. We walked and talked that no one of us ever found white speciosus in wild and no one of our friends living in speciosus distribution area ever saw some such. Leonid even expressed opinion that speciosus 'Albus' is garden hybrid, not true species. As I still feel pain in my earlier broken leg I followed both gentelmens (Dima & Leonid) at some distance. And there it was - of course too old flower, but certainly pure white speciosus. Due late hour on picture it looks slightly bluish, but really they were remnants of pure white speciosus. I was very happy that they both stepped over this flower, not on it.
Janis
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: mark smyth on October 20, 2009, 04:12:22 PM
Janis did you fly or drive?
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Janis Ruksans on October 20, 2009, 04:31:55 PM
Janis did you fly or drive?
Fly to Kiev, night train to Simferopol, bus to Sevastopol, troleybus + bus to Kaya-bash, day on Kaya-bash, in evening bus to Sevastopol, night in Sevastopol, in morning bus to Simferopol, then bus to Tchatir-dag, half day on Tchatir-dag, in afternoon troleybus back to Simferopol, night train to Kiev, flight back to Riga. Started on Friday morning, returned Mondays evening.
Janis
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Janis Ruksans on October 20, 2009, 04:38:43 PM
All the day passed in greenhouses. Got a lot of bulbs by post during my travel, between them a lot of Iris reticulata hybrids from Alan McMurtrie; good number of Crocus scharojanii subsp. scharojanii (inclusive white form of it - only 1 corm). All needed planting. Hope they will grow with me.
Other part of day passed checking crocuses, so some pictures for you, too.
Janis
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Janis Ruksans on October 20, 2009, 04:42:03 PM
Few more pictures from today.
Janis
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Janis Ruksans on October 20, 2009, 04:51:58 PM
Now last pictures of today with few comments.
On two pictures you can compare typical shape of Crocus pallasii petals from Crimea and from Turkey.
Just now in full bloom is Crocus banaticus white forms 'Kath Dryden' and 'Snowdrift'. I can't to see any difference, even flowering time is the same.
And the last - new C. speciosus taxa, which I deceided to name in honour of Jim and Jenny.
Janis
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: tonyg on October 20, 2009, 05:01:48 PM
Janis - Thanks as always for sharing your plants and your adventures.
The Crimean Crocus pallasii are very fine, some of the most beautiful that I have seen, especially those with dark veins in the flower.
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Armin on October 20, 2009, 05:03:44 PM
Superb pictures from everybody!

Janis,
what is different/special of the new nicely striped C. speciosus subsp. archibaldii compared to ordinary C. speciosus subsp. speciosus?
I can't find/see any difference yet.
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: mark smyth on October 20, 2009, 05:14:23 PM
longiflorus amd Pilion are very excellent eye candy.

My banaticus never open wide like that.

Janis what are the small blue balls on your pots?
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Janis Ruksans on October 20, 2009, 05:19:38 PM
Superb pictures from everybody!

Janis,
what is different/special of the new nicely striped C. speciosus subsp. archibaldii compared to ordinary C. speciosus subsp. speciosus?
I can't find/see any difference yet.

There are very special and important feature separating it from all other speciosus suubspecies - you will read it in my book next August. Sorry, it is still secret. Not so important, but by flower it is intermediate between ilgazensis and xantholaimos.
Sincerely
Janis
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Janis Ruksans on October 20, 2009, 05:23:38 PM
Janis what are the small blue balls on your pots?

I just put few balls of slow releazing complex (NPK - 10-10-20 + microelements) granulate fertilizer on each pot. It feeds bulbs by each watering all the season + spraying with fast releasing complex fertilizer (feeding through leaves). All with complex of microelements.
Janis
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Armin on October 20, 2009, 05:35:20 PM
Janis,
thanks - I'll patiently will wait then ;D
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Michael J Campbell on October 20, 2009, 06:03:03 PM
I am not sure that these two are correct, confirmation please.

Crocus laevigatus
Crocus nudiflorus
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Hans A. on October 20, 2009, 06:06:22 PM
Janis, terrible pictures for one who is still not totally crocus addicted! ;) But fascination becomes bigger and bigger...
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Oron Peri on October 20, 2009, 07:06:49 PM
Janis

All amazing  pallasii forms!!!

Your C. veneris is a bit unusual.

Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: dominique on October 20, 2009, 07:19:07 PM
What a magnificience Janis ! I hope that we will see some of them on your next catalogue ! Thank you hyper much !
Dom
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: mark smyth on October 20, 2009, 08:01:35 PM
Michael your laevigatus is correct but could your nudiflorus be serotinus? I see feint feathering
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Melvyn Jope on October 20, 2009, 08:10:54 PM
I fear the rain and wind forecast for the next two days will knock the Crocus about, two C.speciosus taken just as the rain started and a C.tournefortii growing under glass.
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Armin on October 20, 2009, 08:38:25 PM
Melvyn,
nice croci. Your white C. speciosus resembles more cultivar C. pulchellus "Zephyr" (with white anthers).
A picture from my garden today.
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Janis Ruksans on October 21, 2009, 05:28:31 AM
Janis

Your C. veneris is a bit unusual.


This autumn many crocuses are anusual - less developed styles, smaller flowers etc. C. veneris flowers are smaler than before and style remains between anthers. Suppose that reason is too cold summer.
Janis
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: David Nicholson on October 21, 2009, 09:54:54 AM


My banaticus never open wide like that.

put them in the kitchen for an hour or so, then they will. Have you seen whar Tony said on Crocus Pages? ("some early botanists referred to it as Crocus iridiflorus")
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Ian Y on October 21, 2009, 11:31:56 AM
I have just been catching up with the forum.

I have been away so much over the last month I seem to have had too little time to enjoy the posts.

Simply stunning crocus pictures everyone both in cultivation and in the field - thank you for sharing them.
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: mark smyth on October 21, 2009, 06:40:45 PM
This is the pale serotinus clusii I mentioned this week
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Sinchets on October 21, 2009, 08:19:05 PM
Thanks for the C.pallasii pallasii pics, Janis. We hope to find a southern Bulgarian population next week.
Flowering here now on the first sunny day after a week of rains.
Crocus cartwrightianus
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Roma on October 21, 2009, 11:08:49 PM
I have the beginnings of a crocus lawn.  A number of years ago crocus pulchellus appeared in the narrow border between the 'rockery/raised bed' and the grass, from seeds or smallcorms in used potting compost.  They set lots of seed and have gradually spread the whole length of the border.  They are now spreading into the grass and appearing all over the garden helped I think by ants.
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: I.S. on October 21, 2009, 11:42:40 PM
 Janis very nice pics. from wild and your collection specialy pallasii with dark throat.
 
Is your new taxa C. Crocus speciosus subsp. archibaldii from Turkey? I think yellow throat is endemic to Turkey! I was plannig to visit a location of C. speciosus subsp. xantholaimos for next week from N.W. Turkey which is not recorded for this subspecies. So I have to check corm carefully :)
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Janis Ruksans on October 22, 2009, 05:46:19 AM
Janis very nice pics. from wild and your collection specialy pallasii with dark throat.
 
Is your new taxa C. Crocus speciosus subsp. archibaldii from Turkey? I think yellow throat is endemic to Turkey! I was plannig to visit a location of C. speciosus subsp. xantholaimos for next week from N.W. Turkey which is not recorded for this subspecies. So I have to check corm carefully :)


No, it is from Iran. Yellow throat is more widespread - see picture of Armenian plant, too.
Janis
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Ragged Robin on October 22, 2009, 09:19:53 AM
I have the beginnings of a crocus lawn.  A number of years ago crocus pulchellus appeared in the narrow border between the 'rockery/raised bed' and the grass, from seeds or smallcorms in used potting compost.  They set lots of seed and have gradually spread the whole length of the border.  They are now spreading into the grass and appearing all over the garden helped I think by ants.

How wonderful, Roma, each year will be a new surprise as they spread - am interested in you comment about ants spreading them - why would they?
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Luc Gilgemyn on October 22, 2009, 10:43:18 AM
Very nice "wild" population of pulchellus Roma !!

Love your cartwrightianus form Simon !!
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Sinchets on October 22, 2009, 11:07:17 AM
I have the beginnings of a crocus lawn.  A number of years ago crocus pulchellus appeared in the narrow border between the 'rockery/raised bed' and the grass, from seeds or smallcorms in used potting compost.  They set lots of seed and have gradually spread the whole length of the border.  They are now spreading into the grass and appearing all over the garden helped I think by ants.

How wonderful, Roma, each year will be a new surprise as they spread - am interested in you comment about ants spreading them - why would they?
Ants are gluttons for anything with sticky seeds.  ;)
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Sinchets on October 22, 2009, 01:13:31 PM
First flower today on Crocus longiflorus (?) AH9703. Third year with us, but it chose to bulk up rather than flower until now.
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Ragged Robin on October 22, 2009, 01:32:40 PM
Wow, Simon, worth the wait, it's so pale and a lovely shape  ;)
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Gerry Webster on October 22, 2009, 02:26:18 PM
First flower today on Crocus longiflorus (?) AH9703. Third year with us, but it chose to bulk up rather than flower until now.

Very nice Simon, but why the question mark? The available information is that this collection of C. longiflorus was made by Hoog in the Nebrodi mountains, Sicily.
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Sinchets on October 22, 2009, 02:41:40 PM
Gerry, the main reason for the (?) these days is that many of my plants seem to be wrong- through my own mistakes or the errors of others. Thanks also- I hadn't realised AH was Antoine Hoog.  ::)
Robin, the scent makes it even more attractive- almost edible.
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Melvyn Jope on October 22, 2009, 07:07:26 PM
As well as the C. cartwrightianus in this photo I also have C. oreocreticus in flower, I have a problem discerning the difference, is there an easy way?
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Armin on October 22, 2009, 07:31:18 PM
Melvyn,
beautiful C. cartwrightianus (with hairy throat ;)).

To your question: sofar as I know...

C. cartwrightianus (C. sativus) & C. tournefortii -> Flowers stay open during night.
C. cartwrightianus flowers with good developed leaves, grows in lowland, throat hairy.
C. orecreticus -> Flower closed during night, flowers w/o or  little developed leaves, grows in high mountains of Crete, throat glabrous.
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Janis Ruksans on October 22, 2009, 07:37:48 PM
As well as the C. cartwrightianus in this photo I also have C. oreocreticus in flower, I have a problem discerning the difference, is there an easy way?
Flowers of Crocus oreocreticus are lighter or darker purple with prominent veining and somewhat pointed in overall appearance; the inner segments in my samples are remarkably shorter and narrower than the outer ones. The filaments are very short and white, the anthers much longer and bright yellow. The style divides in the throat into three bright orange to red branches which end near the tips of anthers. Leaves appear together with flowers or at the end of blooming. In my collection it is the only crocus in which the cataphylls raise above ground to quite a great length closely enwrapping the green leaves and flower stalk and only then on the top opens a flower. It seems like the flowers are being pushed out onto the tip of a pencil pressed into the ground. It is so unusual that I have never misidentified this species. Maybe I plant its corms too shallow? Similar plants I have seen in other collections, too, although not always. Its flowers are of so special color and shape that for me it would be difficult to mix it up with any other species.
Janis
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: David Nicholson on October 22, 2009, 07:45:15 PM
I couldn't resist posting another pic of my pot of Crocus goulimyi (grown from SRGC Seed Ex. seed, sown 29 August 2007), because this time, to accompany the C. goulimy ssp. goulimyi shown before I have C. goulimyi ssp. leucanthus.

Third and fourth pics are C. serotinus salzmannii.



Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: art600 on October 22, 2009, 07:51:00 PM
We have all admired the Crocus mathewii from Peter Moore.  Here is Peter's Crocus boryi - form an orderly queue please  :)
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Armin on October 22, 2009, 08:01:25 PM
Janis,
thank you for the detailed description of C. orecreticus. You have certainly pictures of the beauty.
Will you kindly show us?
Do you agree with my easy simple way of differentiation?

David,
you are not only a specialist of primula I have to say ;)

Arthur,
I love it.  8) :o 8) Nicely feathered outside. Background is just a little bit dark and maybe not all can see its beauty.
I've downloaded and auto-corrected your picture.
I hope this is in your mind.
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Luc Gilgemyn on October 22, 2009, 08:20:17 PM
We have all admired the Crocus mathewii from Peter Moore.  Here is Peter's Crocus boryi - form an orderly queue please  :)

Arthur !
Where have you hidden this beauty ??? It really is awesome ! :o :o

Great job David !  Better change your signature soon !  ;)
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: David Nicholson on October 22, 2009, 08:24:33 PM
I'll add a WOW too Arthur :D

 :-[ :-[  Thank you Armin.

Luc, when I start getting the wrong ones right then I might change it ;D
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: art600 on October 22, 2009, 09:08:37 PM
Armin

Many thanks for producing the real Crocus.
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Lesley Cox on October 22, 2009, 09:17:35 PM
A fabulous plant Art, the queue may form right across the oceans. ;D
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: tonyg on October 22, 2009, 11:19:08 PM
Crocus still looking good here - it has been a good autumn for crocus in the eastern UK.  
First three quite different forms of Crocus cartwrightianus.  The one labelled 82-97 conforms quite closely to Janis description of Crocus oreocreticus, I shall have to take a closer look, it may be misnamed.   What you cannot see from these pics is that it is about half the size of the other two.
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: tonyg on October 22, 2009, 11:26:20 PM
Four more.
Crocus gilanicus - a late flower.  Only small, about half the size of the next one.
Crocus kotschyanus HKEP 92-05 (Helmut Kerndorff/Erich Pasche) a form with (almost) white style.
Crocus goulimyi - a vigorous potful :)
Crocus laevigatus - a small Cretan form. Some dark stripes on the outside of the outer petals
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: tonyg on October 22, 2009, 11:32:03 PM
A final five!
Crocus biflorus melantherus - raised from wild seed so shows variation.
Crocus hadriaticus parnonicus - all lilac ssp of hadriaticus.  Big, elegant flowers, hoping for seed.
Crocus longiflorus - labelled 'ex best striped form'.  Evidently breeds true :)
Crocus pulchellus - labelled C chrysanthus!  This is raised from seed from an area where both the autumn flowering C pulchellus and the spring flowering C chrysanthus grow together.  It's a nice form.
Crocus thomasii - from home produced seed.  A huge flower.
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: mark smyth on October 22, 2009, 11:33:07 PM
This is my oreocreticus BM10106. Sadly only two flowering corms this year
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Gerry Webster on October 23, 2009, 12:00:15 AM
This is my oreocreticus BM10106. Sadly only two flowering corms this year
That's a very handsome form of  oreocreticus Mark. Where did it come from?
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Janis Ruksans on October 23, 2009, 05:43:38 AM
Here is my C. oreocreticus clearly showing long cataphylls and leaves developed together with flowers as well as shape of flower segments, of course smaller details of flower (absence or presence of hairs in throat) is important, too, but those, listed by me, you can check without magnifying glass. I have only two aquisitions of this species and both are very similar, possibly variability is larger.
Janis
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Janis Ruksans on October 23, 2009, 05:50:48 AM
We have all admired the Crocus mathewii from Peter Moore.  Here is Peter's Crocus boryi - form an orderly queue please  :)
Very nice, never before saw such C. boryi. Variability inside Crocus species is really incredibly wide, making identification sometimes very difficult.
Janis
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: tonyg on October 23, 2009, 09:02:39 AM
We have all admired the Crocus mathewii from Peter Moore.  Here is Peter's Crocus boryi - form an orderly queue please  :)
Very nice, never before saw such C. boryi. Variability inside Crocus species is really incredibly wide, making identification sometimes very difficult.
Janis
I completely agree with comments re variablity.  In the case of C boryi shown is it possible that the plant is a (natural) hybrid with Crocus laevigatus which can have similar feathering?
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Armin on October 23, 2009, 10:01:31 AM
Janis,Tony, Mark
thank you for posting the C. orecreticus and cartwrightianus pictures. Very beautiful.

I also agree with comments regarding variability. As more you study crocus in details as more exceptions/abnormalities one can find. :)
In this context I find it remarkable that the styles of C. orecreticus are shorter than the anthers while compared to C. cartwrightianus it is opposite case.
I this a possible valid additional features to distinguish between the two species?
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Janis Ruksans on October 23, 2009, 10:20:52 AM
In this context I find it remarkable that the styles of C. orecreticus are shorter than the anthers while compared to C. cartwrightianus it is opposite case.
I this a possible valid additional features to distinguish between the two species?

Yes, it is one of features for separating both species. Although in a few cases I have seen blooms where the style was shorter than half the tepals length but probably it was a seasonal variation and not very characteristic to Crocus cartwrightianus. In oreocreticus style divides in the throat into three bright orange to red branches which end near the tips of anthers.
Janis
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Gerry Webster on October 23, 2009, 12:58:08 PM
We have all admired the Crocus mathewii from Peter Moore.  Here is Peter's Crocus boryi - form an orderly queue please  :)
Very nice, never before saw such C. boryi. Variability inside Crocus species is really incredibly wide, making identification sometimes very difficult.
Janis
I completely agree with comments re variablity.  In the case of C boryi shown is it possible that the plant is a (natural) hybrid with Crocus laevigatus which can have similar feathering?
This seems quite possible, after all C.boryi hybridises with C. tournefortii. I have a couple of very attractive & colourful plants, received as C. tournefortii, which appear to be  hybrids, though of what I cannot decide  - C. laevigatus seems a possible parent.
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: BULBISSIME on October 23, 2009, 04:30:53 PM
Crocus flowering now, from Lebanon, is it C. pallasii ssp pallasii ?
no leaves at all , and closed for the night...
Sorry for the bad pic, the bad flower, but windy this afternoon, and snails are aout  ??? >:(
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Sinchets on October 23, 2009, 05:23:17 PM
That's a lovely pale C.pallasii, Fred. I wonder whether it will be C.p.pallasii!
Flowering here now and defying the camera's autofocus- Crocus biflorus melantherus
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: udo on October 23, 2009, 06:48:09 PM
Fred,
your crocus is possible pallasii ssp.turcicus.
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: BULBISSIME on October 23, 2009, 06:53:29 PM
Thank's all  ;)
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: I.S. on October 23, 2009, 07:03:20 PM
Fred your crocus does not looks like pallasii to me.  :-\
It might be C. hermoneus hermoneus  :-\

Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: tonyg on October 23, 2009, 07:17:49 PM
Fred your crocus does not looks like pallasii to me.  :-\
It might be C. hermoneus hermoneus  :-\
/quote]
Mmm - I tend to agree although there are some unusual forms of C pallasii in the area.  Oron Peri might have a relevant opinion.
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: I.S. on October 23, 2009, 07:19:53 PM
Tony, I am in the work at the moment and my flash disc is not with me to day  :)
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Hans A. on October 23, 2009, 07:32:53 PM
Crocus cambessedesii - the first one :)
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Ragged Robin on October 23, 2009, 08:47:02 PM
Really lovely, Hans, have you got a photo of the feathering as well?
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Thomas Huber on October 24, 2009, 08:56:10 AM
Fred your crocus does not looks like pallasii to me.  :-\
It might be C. hermoneus hermoneus  :-\

I agree, that the petals look somewhat like C. hermoneus, but the style doesn't!
Fred, does the corm look like the one I have here? Then it is surely pallasii, probably ssp turcicus like Dirk mentioned.
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Oron Peri on October 24, 2009, 10:20:01 AM
Crocus flowering now, from Lebanon, is it C. pallasii ssp pallasii ?
no leaves at all , and closed for the night...
Sorry for the bad pic, the bad flower, but windy this afternoon, and snails are aout  ??? >:(

Not an easy one,

I would say cancellatus ssp. cancellatus and maybe even cancellatus damascenus.
It isn't  the style of any of the pallasii, and not the one of C. hermoneus.
What i have noticed is that cancellatus cancellatus has two forms of styles, a developed, much branched one and the other is much less developed [ seems to be the one Fred posted].

But, there are some population that are mixed hermoneus and cancellatus with intermadiate forms that seems to be hybrids.
Any how we have arrived to the conclusion that cancellatus from this region can be told 100% only by checking the corm.


Attached are photos from last season where you can see all three  that i have mentioned.
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Oron Peri on October 24, 2009, 11:48:29 AM
Attached also the typical pallasii pallasii ,
As you can see the petal's form and veins of the three species are very similar.
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Oron Peri on October 24, 2009, 12:12:13 PM
Found also a photo of cancellatus cancellatus showing the two different styles on the same plant.
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: art600 on October 24, 2009, 12:36:08 PM
Oron

Wonderful photos of an interesting and very variable Crocus.   I am waiting for my Greek and Turkish cancellatus to flower.
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Janis Ruksans on October 24, 2009, 01:17:11 PM
No more pictures from me. Promised sun didn't come today but tomorrow I'm leaving my plants for two weeks. Hope to post pictures after my returning - then in new November topic.

Janis
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: BULBISSIME on October 24, 2009, 01:30:34 PM
Thank's everybody !
Thomas, I'm not sure this is the same corm as yours, I'll have to dig it up next year and to take pictures
Oron, mine is very similar except style to your pallasii pallasii...
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: I.S. on October 24, 2009, 05:45:42 PM
Oron, thank you very much for showing these nice pics and for share your knowledge about the area.
So answer is under ground.
 And here is my first C. cancellatus from last week. I recieved only a single corm from near Syrian border
I want to call this C. cancellatus subsp. damascenus
I hope you are agree with me !!

Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Oron Peri on October 24, 2009, 06:27:17 PM
Ibrahim,

Yes, regarding  Fred's Crocus i think the answer is under ground as you say, in my opinion, in this case  it wouldn't be right to decide only by the style or petal form without knowing if  it is a singular phenomenon or is the whole population has this type of style.

Your Crocus is just beautiful!!! so slender and defiantly c. damascenus. [white throat, pale yellow divided style, and the corm offcourse.]

It is amazing to see the differences from both ends of the distribution of this ssp. the Southern population is in the Negev Desert and yours is from S. Turkey, thousands of KM apart.

I attach photos of plants from the Negev. [it has been suggested to saparate this form into a new species]

Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: I.S. on October 24, 2009, 07:31:53 PM
 Oron, your C. cancellatus subsp. damascenus also so beautiful and looks different with tiny petals and short style.
 So I can keep mine with contentment as a sample for turkis C. cancellatus subsp. damascenus.
 And here is my second cancellatus from this week.
 C. cancellatus subsp. mazziaricus from West Turkey. just common samples (bracteole clearly visible, yellowy throat)

 
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: johnw on October 24, 2009, 07:37:50 PM
My first autumn one out  - C. cancellatus subsp. mazziaricus

johnw
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: udo on October 24, 2009, 08:09:01 PM
Nice pics from all.
In flower by me today:
Crocus caspius 2x
   ``    nerimaniae 2x
   ``    cancellatus ssp.pamphylicus, light blue form
   ``    wattiorum
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: BULBISSIME on October 24, 2009, 08:11:37 PM
very strange this C. wattiorum !
never heard of it before,... like many other species  ;D
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Gerry Webster on October 24, 2009, 08:34:11 PM
Fred - C. wattiorum was discovered by Peter & Penny Watt in SW Turkey (Tahtali Dag) in 1986. It was first described as a subsp. of C. biflorus but is now regarded by Mathew as a distinct species. It is extremely rare in cultivation - I have never seen it. Lucky Dirk!
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Gerry Webster on October 24, 2009, 08:35:25 PM
Dirk - superb (as usual).
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: I.S. on October 24, 2009, 08:37:34 PM
Dirk,
You grow these crocuses very good and you show us always the best.
I have nothing to say.
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Janis Ruksans on October 25, 2009, 05:34:12 AM
Ibrahim,

I attach photos of plants from the Negev. [it has been suggested to saparate this form into a new species]


It certainly is different species, different corm tunics netting, flower.
Janis
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Janis Ruksans on October 25, 2009, 05:37:24 AM
very strange this C. wattiorum !
never heard of it before,... like many other species  ;D

C. wattiorum allways opens very wide, this year I even can't make good pictures of it. Not many others open so wide as wattiorum. This well seperates it from nerimaniae.
Janis
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Janis Ruksans on October 25, 2009, 05:41:52 AM
Nice pics from all.
In flower by me today:
Crocus caspius 2x
   ``    nerimaniae 2x

Very good caspius. I have only lighter and pure white. Yours nerimaniae is very light, too (may be camera effect?). Mine are much darker and some are slightly striped. I noted that yours (as mine, too) are not showing leaves at flowering, contrary to original description. With me leave tips appear only at end of blooming.
Janis
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Hans A. on October 25, 2009, 08:49:08 AM
Superb pictures everyone! :o

Here one for Robin. :)
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Ragged Robin on October 25, 2009, 09:32:00 AM
Thanks, so much for posting this lovely photo of the feathering on your C cambessedesii Hans  :D
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Tony Willis on October 25, 2009, 10:37:11 AM
very strange this C. wattiorum !
never heard of it before,... like many other species  ;D

C. wattiorum allways opens very wide, this year I even can't make good pictures of it. Not many others open so wide as wattiorum. This well seperates it from nerimaniae.
Janis

My nerimainae opened completley flat in the sun yesterday. I can see no difference with wattiorum from just looking at the flowers. Hopefully I can look for differences in the wild next week.
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: mark smyth on October 25, 2009, 10:53:06 AM
I'm very angry this morning. Over night boys without fathers, cant say the word, smashed one of the louvre panels in my green house and stole 8 pots of Crocus and threw others on the ground. He or she and their friends need a firework shoved up their a$$
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: mark smyth on October 25, 2009, 01:34:16 PM
On a plus side here are a couple of Crocus basking in todays sun
longiflorus from the Prague autumn show 5 years ago. Not multplying fast
a dark niveus ex Tony G a few years ago flowering for the first time with me.
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: udo on October 25, 2009, 01:47:32 PM
Tony W,
Crocus wattiorum flowering with very narrow leaves,
Cr.nerimaniae without leaves.
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Regelian on October 25, 2009, 01:56:38 PM
I just aquired this crocus as C. cancellatus cancellatus.  Pretty little guys, all looking identical, thus most likely a single clone.  Certainly darker than the C. cancellatus shown on this forum.  Any comments as to veracity?
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: mark smyth on October 25, 2009, 02:06:06 PM
It looks like my cancellatus posted here http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=4261.405 (http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=4261.405)
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Regelian on October 25, 2009, 02:17:35 PM
Thanks for the comment, Mark.  Yours looked softer in colour and almost bi-toned to me, but this could be a monitor artifact.  I simply do not know a lot about crocus and often don't see the differences between species and types.  A learning curve.

Really sorry to hear about your spot of vandalism!  It's hard to understand the motives, besides being short on a number of brain cells.
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Regelian on October 25, 2009, 02:24:02 PM
OK, these just popped-up along the walkway.  I've had these little gems for some years, but am unsure as to their ID.  I have tenetaively noted them as C. ochroleucus, but have no idea.  They are quite small, flowers about 1.5-2cm tall and just a touch of leaves showing at the base.

jamie
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: mark smyth on October 25, 2009, 02:25:08 PM
Thanks Jamie.
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: mark smyth on October 25, 2009, 02:29:33 PM
The style looks like my ochroleucus
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: johnw on October 25, 2009, 02:30:26 PM
I'm very angry this morning. Over night boys without fathers, cant say the word, smashed one of the louvre panels in my green house and stole 8 pots of Crocus and threw others on the ground. He or she and their friends need a firework shoved up their a$$

Mark - Condolences.  Very maddening. They sell cheap security cameras now that link up with your computer and are motion and sound sensitive.

When I was in states several years ago a greenhouse owner had a big poster on the outside, it pictured a front end shot of the barrel of a gun and said if you are found in here at 11pm you will be found in here at 8am. Scared the hell out of me.

johnw

 
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: I.S. on October 25, 2009, 07:57:37 PM
 Mark, I am very sorry about your annoyance case  :(
 
 Here is my third C. cancellatus in flower with leaves while the other subsp. flower wihtout leaves, although it is uper then 1600 m. att. And also it looks smaller then other subsp.
 C. cancellatus subsp. lycius

 
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: jnovis on October 25, 2009, 09:23:03 PM
Lovely photo`s,Mark. How do you get such a good depth of field, Jim.
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: mark smyth on October 25, 2009, 09:40:20 PM
Good camera I suppose, James. I only take photos in good light and never when the sky grey. I take many photos like those above in the house when the sun is shining.
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: mark smyth on October 25, 2009, 09:59:20 PM
I use a Canon 900Ti but when I am able I'll be buying a 990IS. It is all singing all dancing. When set on auto it can recognise 18 possible types of photo about to be taken including inside, outside - all conditions and macro. No need to use buttons to use play back of photos. Just shake the camera gently
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: dominique on October 25, 2009, 10:32:10 PM
Very sad for you Mark. How difficult to understand the reasons of these acts.
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Lesley Cox on October 25, 2009, 11:38:57 PM
The vandalism is very disappointing Mark. I can understand your anger as one is so helpless, especially after the event. Is your glasshouse near to the public footpath or did they have to walk around to the back of your house? If so it shows an incredible amount of arrogance.
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: tonyg on October 25, 2009, 11:39:30 PM
Lovely photo`s,Mark. How do you get such a good depth of field, Jim.
Compact digital cameras have a natural advantage in that the image sensor is very close to the lens.  This allows for remarkable depth of field even in macro.  A better quality camera will doubtless give better results but as long as you have the macro facility for close-up work, you should be fine.  I am still using a camera aquired in 2002 .... but I will get around to upgrading it soon ;)  Practice makes perfect when taking pics and good light helps a lot.
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: tonyg on October 25, 2009, 11:53:41 PM
After nine years Crocus moabiticus has flowered here!  Well, I hope it is Crocus moabiticus.  Remarkably two plants from different raisings have come into flower for the first time on the same day.  The plant pictured as no 1 is from seed sent by Jane McGary (California) in 2000.  The plant pictured as no 2 is from John Lonsdale who got his seed also from Jane.  I believe Jane got her original plants as seed from Mike Salmon in the UK (I will check this later).  
BUT .. is it moabiticus.  It certainly does not fit very well with the description by Brian Mathew in 'The Crocus'.  To my eye it has more in common with Crocus cartwrightianus but Brian admits (in 1980) that C moabiticus is a little known species which may be more variable than the limited sample he examined.  The plants I grow are nonetheless very beautiful ... whatever I call them :)
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Lesley Cox on October 26, 2009, 12:23:54 AM
Oran showed some pictures last year of C. moabiticus and gave me permission to use them in a talk so I guess he won't mind if I put them here. They're not quite like yours Tony but I imagine that dry though your garden may be, it is not quite like the Moab desert.
[attachthumb=1]

[attachthumb=2]

[attachthumb=3]
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Oron Peri on October 26, 2009, 08:18:51 AM
Tony

The first one is c. moabiticus for sure, vain patterns, proportions of the anthers and the wide lanceolate style that seems to 'wonder around' in this species indicates it.

Regarding the second I'm not 100% sure, it is less veined, more color washed and the style and anthers are quite small and thin, but than it might be also a climate factor that caused it, as Lesley said it is a species that grows in the desert.
Any way Bravo!!!

Another thing you can check  the tip of the leaves, they are quite hard and thorny
probably to avoid insects from eating them, since at the time this species flower there is little green available in the desert [ you can notice it clearly in the photos i have sent to Lesley].

This morning another case of double form this time C. boryi.
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Gerry Webster on October 26, 2009, 10:03:33 AM
Very interesting Tony. If not informed otherwise I would have supposed this to be C. cartwrightianus. I've only seen C. moabiticus in the flesh once - years ago at the Horsham Show - & I thought it a miserable thing  with very small & 'starry' flowers. Oron's photos suggest it is much better than this.   Your plant - whatever it is - is very beautiful.

Addition - I note that your second plant has leaves whereas Oron's dont. BM says it is hysteranthous but I guess cultural conditions could be responsible?
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: tonyg on October 26, 2009, 10:25:04 AM
Thanks for the feedback Lesley, Oron & Gerry.  It was lucky I took the time to picture the plants  (and cross pollinate them) before work yesterday as flower 1 has been damaged since :(  I have had several plants with the anthers removed recently and suspect a very large bumble bee (queen?) which I have noticed bumbling around the frame and greenhouse in recent days.
I cannot notice any significant hardening of the leaf tips in my plants but I wonder if this feature is a response to the very different conditions in its native habitat.  Here conditions are much 'softer', without the extreme heat and drought which characterises the months in the run-up to flowering in the wild.
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Maggi Young on October 26, 2009, 01:38:26 PM


Addition - I note that your second plant has leaves whereas Oron's dont. BM says it is hysteranthous but I guess cultural conditions could be responsible?


Actually, Gerry, the last of Oron's pix does  show the leaves present.....
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: mark smyth on October 26, 2009, 01:45:02 PM
Tony you have patience to wait so long
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Gerry Webster on October 26, 2009, 02:18:42 PM


Addition - I note that your second plant has leaves whereas Oron's dont. BM says it is hysteranthous but I guess cultural conditions could be responsible?


Actually, Gerry, the last of Oron's pix does  show the leaves present.....
So it does Maggi - I'm getting senile!
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Oron Peri on October 26, 2009, 02:37:13 PM


Addition - I note that your second plant has leaves whereas Oron's dont. BM says it is hysteranthous but I guess cultural conditions could be responsible?


Actually, Gerry, the last of Oron's pix does  show the leaves present.....
So it does Maggi - I'm getting senile!

Yes,
In its native habitat leaves are present or appear just before flowers are gone.
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: I.S. on October 26, 2009, 04:07:06 PM
Tony whatever is that looks very nice. Specialy long red style is very showy.
I can some pics from yesterday.
C. cancellatus subsp. pamphylicus
C. kotschyanus subsp. kotschyanus
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: I.S. on October 26, 2009, 04:34:21 PM
I want to post also some pictures from a garden wich I have visited this week. They were in shadow side I could not take in good qualite of pics but still might be interesting!


 C. asumaniae Uni.jpg
 C. cancellatus subsp. cancellatus Uni.jpg
 C. cancellatus subsp. lycius Uni.jpg
 C. cancellatus subsp. lycius Uni.jpg 2.jpg
 C. cancellatus subsp. pamphylicus Uni.jpg
 C. mathewii Uni.jpg
 C. mathewii Uni.jpg 2.jpg
 C. nerimaniae Uni.jpg
 C. nerimaniae Uni.jpg 2.jpg
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Tony Willis on October 26, 2009, 05:23:30 PM
Ibrahim

very nice pictures and lovely to see
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Gerry Webster on October 26, 2009, 05:47:46 PM
Ibrahim - really nice to see these. Many thanks.
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Rafa on October 26, 2009, 07:39:17 PM
Serotinus explosion  :o This morning I took some pictures in a field near my house. I just saw 3  f. album from thousands.
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Regelian on October 26, 2009, 07:57:24 PM
Very beautiful, Rafa,

they look so lovely in their natural landscape.  Do you collect seed from the population?

jamie
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: I.S. on October 26, 2009, 09:05:46 PM
Rafa that is amazing to see so many crocuses around you!
Thanks for sharing with us.
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Lesley Cox on October 26, 2009, 10:58:04 PM
How wonderful Rafa to see them on this scale. Lucky horse too :) though I suppose some get trampled or eaten.
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Luc Gilgemyn on October 27, 2009, 01:22:34 PM
Wonderful series Ibrahim !!
C. nerimaniae looks absolutely brilliant with its' black anthers !!  8)

Rafa,
Brilliant pictures from the wild !!
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Roma on October 27, 2009, 10:47:15 PM
I've been meaning to post the following pics for a while.  They were taken about two weeks ago.  I spend so much time admiring other people's pictures on this wonderful forum I don't get round to showing off my own plants.

Crocus banaticus - grown from SRGC seed many years ago.  I only noticed the eight petalled flower when resizing the picture for the forum
Crocus goulimyi
Crocus goulimyi leucanthus - first flowering from seed
Crocus kotschyanus leucopharynx
Crocus longiflorus
Crocus medius
 
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Armin on October 27, 2009, 11:00:54 PM
Ibrahim, Rafa & Roma,
ravishing images of very nice speci crocus :o 8)
Many will remain a dream for my meadow & garden forever :'( :(

But I'm happy satisfied with ordinary C. speciosus, increasing well.
I got some own seedlings this year in flower.
Also 3 with white anthers (defective?, no pollen) appeared - likely hybrids possible with C. pulchellus "Zephyr"?.
I've prepared a collection of variations...

Also C. ligusticus is now in flower (virus free); thanks Dirk ;)
C. longiflorus is open now too; thanks Dirk ;)
Finally, C. goulimyi flowered again after 2years waiting; thanks to Thomas ;)
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Ragged Robin on October 27, 2009, 11:11:56 PM
I've been meaning to post the following pics for a while.  They were taken about two weeks ago.  I spend so much time admiring other people's pictures on this wonderful forum I don't get round to showing off my own plants.

Crocus banaticus - grown from SRGC seed many years ago.  I only noticed the eight petalled flower when resizing the picture for the forum
Crocus goulimyi
Crocus goulimyi leucanthus - first flowering from seed
Crocus kotschyanus leucopharynx
Crocus longiflorus
Crocus medius
 

Such a wonderful collection Roma, so glad you posted them, I love your C. longiflorus looking in the peak of condition.
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: johnw on October 28, 2009, 12:12:05 AM
Marvellous shots Roma, Ibrahim and Armin. I love the composite shot of speciosus.

I think the mice got my clump of Crocus nudiflorus, a hole and tunnel nearby. :'(

johnw
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Gerdk on October 28, 2009, 06:53:00 AM
Armin,
What a stunning crocus show - it seems you enjoy a splendid autumn flowering!

Gerd
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: David Nicholson on October 28, 2009, 09:20:09 AM
Lovely show Roma.

You too Armin. I like your C. speciosus selections and when I see them like that it does make me wonder how Janis was able to find another one distinctive enough to name ???
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Luc Gilgemyn on October 28, 2009, 09:50:46 AM
Thank you Roma and Armin !!

Wonderful varieties of splendid Crocus !  :D
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Gerry Webster on October 28, 2009, 10:04:53 AM
I've been meaning to post the following pics for a while.  They were taken about two weeks ago.  I spend so much time admiring other people's pictures on this wonderful forum I don't get round to showing off my own plants.

Crocus medius

Roma - interesting to see your C. medius which appears to be virus-free. It's good that there seem to be a number of clones of healthy plants around. Where did yours come from?
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Roma on October 28, 2009, 06:56:55 PM
Thank you all for your kind comments. 

Gerry, I bought the Crocus medius (I suppose I should be calling it ligusticus now) from Broadleeigh Gardens in 2004.
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Lesley Cox on October 28, 2009, 07:30:28 PM
I too enjoyed seeing the virus-free medius. My commercial supplier, when I mentioned that they were virused, said that it didn't really matter as the vigour wasn't affected. Even if that is so, I still think it matters. Viruses spread and in any case, the virused flowers don't look half so good as the clean ones.
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Armin on October 28, 2009, 07:38:34 PM
John, Gerd, David, Luc,
thanks for the pleasant comments, motivating to try new things. :)

"Virus" is the catchword. My last flowers of C. kotschyanus give some shelter for usual uninvited guests spreading decease over our favourites - aphids >:(
A small picture series - please feedback in case not good visible on your PC.
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Maggi Young on October 28, 2009, 07:50:54 PM
Thanks, Armin... I can see very well the flowers... and the aphids! :P
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Gerry Webster on October 28, 2009, 07:58:24 PM
Thank you all for your kind comments. 
Gerry, I bought the Crocus medius (I suppose I should be calling it ligusticus now) from Broadleeigh Gardens in 2004.
Thanks Roma - useful for everyone to know a source of clean plants.
I too enjoyed seeing the virus-free medius. My commercial supplier, when I mentioned that they were virused, said that it didn't really matter as the vigour wasn't affected. Even if that is so, I still think it matters. Viruses spread and in any case, the virused flowers don't look half so good as the clean ones.
Irrespective of vigour, the virused flowers look awful.
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Michael J Campbell on October 28, 2009, 07:59:41 PM
The last of the Autumn crocus here.

Crocus longiflorus, I hope.
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Armin on October 28, 2009, 08:15:35 PM
Marvellous shots Roma, Ibrahim and Armin. I love the composite shot of speciosus.

I think the mice got my clump of Crocus nudiflorus, a hole and tunnel nearby. :'(

johnw

John,
sad news if true. I noticed similar nearby a basket with C. kotschyanus (not the ones I've shown). :'(
In my played annoyance I've grumbled over our cat "Lydia" not doing her assigned job properly!
She does not seem to understand me :-\ ::)
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Armin on October 28, 2009, 08:50:47 PM
Michael,
wow veeeery nice crocus 8)  8) :o 8)
It looks to me like C. longiflorus, even though I've not seen yet such a dark form. 
Is it scented?
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Michael J Campbell on October 28, 2009, 08:57:05 PM
Quote
It looks to me like C. longiflorus, even though I've not seen yet such a dark form. 
Is it scented?

Don't know,I never think to check for scent. Will check it in the morning if it opens.
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: mark smyth on October 28, 2009, 09:58:23 PM
Armin I like what you have done with your speciosus photos. Michael I agree your longiflorus looks correct and with really good veins. Is it commercial stock or comes with a collection number? Mine are quite pale with one pot of corms lacking blue veins
http://www.marksgardenplants.com/crocus%20longiflorus.html (http://www.marksgardenplants.com/crocus%20longiflorus.html)
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Michael J Campbell on October 28, 2009, 10:01:39 PM
Mark,it was grown from seed from the seed exchange.
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Armin on October 28, 2009, 10:11:36 PM
Mark,
thank you. Used Irfan freeware S/W. Once you know how to do it is quite easy. :P
Regret your troubles with vandalism on your greenhouse and all the stolen croci pots.

Michael,
my congratulations for the breeding success!
Do you have more of them in flower?
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: mark smyth on October 28, 2009, 10:22:04 PM
Here is the lack of pots and broken louvres. Four pots were knocked over but not stolen.
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Armin on October 28, 2009, 10:26:36 PM
Mark,
have any rare species stolen?
Will the insurance pay for the damage?
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: mark smyth on October 28, 2009, 10:59:38 PM
Armin I dont what is gone for sure but speciosus was among them
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Maggi Young on October 28, 2009, 11:16:13 PM
Brian Duncan has been away to see autumn flowering narcissus... and look what he saw..... are these C. serotinus?
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Lesley Cox on October 29, 2009, 07:47:19 PM
Armin, I think your Lydia looks too contented and well-fed to be much interested in mice. Perhaps a diet?

Which is the crocus which used to be called A. asturicus? Is it serotinus? or serotinus ssp salzmannii? If so, it flowers with its leaves. Not very long leaves but to about 1/2 or a bit more, the height of the flower tube. Mine are quite a stong purple colour, not pale, as above.
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Armin on October 29, 2009, 08:40:22 PM
Lesley,
you might be right, maybe Lydia needs really a diet ::) ;D

C. asturicus -> C. serotinus subsp. salzmannii ;)
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Armin on October 30, 2009, 09:52:22 PM
My first C. sativus flower this year :)
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Ragged Robin on October 30, 2009, 10:10:51 PM
A great shot Armin, looks as if you have quite a few - I look forward to my newbies flowering one day  :-\
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: tonyg on October 30, 2009, 10:45:14 PM
Re Crocus moabiticus  - pictured a few pages ago.  Jane McGary kindly anticipated my forthcoming enquiry and sent me a reply before I sent the enquiry!
"The flowers your photos show are
rather different from what the parent plants produce, in that they
are more lavender where the original plants are white with violet
veins. They look like the ones in Oren's photos forwarded by Lesley
Cox. I hand-pollinated these flowers to get the seeds, but I wonder
if a bee might have got into the act as well? Naturally I have other
related crocuses in flower at the same time, notably a pot of C.
hermoneus right next to moabiticus, and hermoneus as you know is
colored, not white ground. My C. cartwrightianus forms are in
different frames, but bees probably travel from one to another; none
of the C. cartwrightianus forms here, however, are as lavender as
your photos show.

The plants John Lonsdale has are both from seed and offsets of my
original corms, which were grown from Mike Salmon's wild seed
collection. The original corms still seem alive but have not flowered
for 2 years, not too surprising as they are now 16 years old. I have
some seedlings that haven't flowered yet but one pot looks pretty
promising just now."
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Armin on October 30, 2009, 10:56:29 PM
Hi Robin,

there are more flowers to come, conditional to good weather with sunshine for the next days.

I have to admit it is a new purchase from August at a local garden center / dutch clone.
The corms were quite large and looked in very good condition - so I couldn't resist :o

Last winter I lost my previous dutch clone bulbs. They were placed in a loamy soil which I have replaced by a sand-compost mix. I hope they like the new conditions and will grow and increase.

Hi Tony,
in spite of the fact your C.moabiticus are likely hybrids they remain little beauties.
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Rafa on October 31, 2009, 12:13:47 AM
Maggy, to me it is C. serotinus salzmannii without any doubt.
This year due to the drought, autum narcissus blooming is very bad, so probably its seed production (in few weeks) will be also very low...
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Gerry Webster on October 31, 2009, 09:45:33 AM
Re: Crocus moabiticus

There is a photo in AGS Bulletin vol 63, no.4, p.389 (Dec 1995) of plants exhibited at Vincent Square by Kew. These look somewhat more like Oron's plants than Tony's. They are described as "basically off-white with a subtle hint of palest lilac...... outer segments sport a buff exterior.... each tepal .... lined.... lilac purple". The leaves are described as present with the flowers, though not fully developed, & they eventually lie almost horizontal "twisting slightly like a corkscrew". 
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: mark smyth on October 31, 2009, 10:54:15 AM
Armin how do you grow your C. sativus? I got a packet for 50p/50c this week. I soaked them in some water to get the roots active before planting them. I was amazed that after 10 hours all had root tips pushing through the tunics. 24 hours later they all had about 5mm long roots.
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Maggi Young on October 31, 2009, 11:08:00 AM
Maggy, to me it is C. serotinus salzmannii without any doubt.
This year due to the drought, autum narcissus blooming is very bad, so probably its seed production (in few weeks) will be also very low...

Thank you, Rafa. :-*
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: udo on October 31, 2009, 05:15:15 PM
in flower this weekend:
Crocus tournefortii 'Albus'
   ''            ''        x laevigatus, closed in the night
   ''            ''        x boryi, open in the night
   ''      veneris from Cyprus
   ''      hyemalis from Israel
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Gerry Webster on October 31, 2009, 06:24:50 PM
Dirk - the hybrids of C. tournefortii are very interesting. Did you do the hybridising deliberately? I have plants very like yours which arose accidentally, presumably due to the activity of  bees.
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: udo on October 31, 2009, 07:27:04 PM
Gerry,
Cr.tournefortii x boryi is a culture-cross from a friend,
        ``        x laevigatus is a native hybrid from Crete
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: mark smyth on October 31, 2009, 07:38:19 PM
A few from me today. Bad weather has prevented photos all week

laevigatus with extra petals
an all white niveus - I hope it is
tournefortii
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Gerry Webster on October 31, 2009, 09:02:18 PM
Gerry,
Cr.tournefortii x boryi is a culture-cross from a friend,
        ``        x laevigatus is a native hybrid from Crete
Thanks Dirk, the plant which I think might be  C. tournefortii x laevigatus is just coming into flower. I'll try & post some pics to compare with yours.
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: jnovis on October 31, 2009, 09:36:18 PM
Dirk- Lovely photo`s,does the hyemalis set seed?, James
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: mark smyth on October 31, 2009, 10:11:22 PM
Dirk does the white tournefortii retain some blue?
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: udo on November 01, 2009, 08:03:18 AM
James, it is the first flower from this species. I hope, he set seed.
Mark, this form from tournefortii is always white.
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Armin on November 01, 2009, 08:04:12 PM
Armin how do you grow your C. sativus? I got a packet for 50p/50c this week. I soaked them in some water to get the roots active before planting them. I was amazed that after 10 hours all had root tips pushing through the tunics. 24 hours later they all had about 5mm long roots.

Mark,
as of now they are ahead of C. cartwrightianus, have longer and more leaves. I'm quite satisfied with the result in the first season.
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: mark smyth on November 01, 2009, 08:57:59 PM
In 'The Crocus' it says plant 18cm deep. Are yours deep or in a small pot?
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Armin on November 01, 2009, 08:59:47 PM
About 15cm, in a basket.
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Armin on November 01, 2009, 09:11:31 PM
Dirk, marvelous croci ;D
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: Paul T on November 01, 2009, 10:02:41 PM
Great pics everyone!!

Mark,

Not good to hear that you've had stuff stolen.  Not good at all. :'(
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: dominique on November 01, 2009, 10:14:09 PM
Dirk
Fabulous Crocus. My hiemalis will bloom next days
I hope you have Crocus veneris seeds in spring...!!!
Dom
Title: Re: Crocus October 2009
Post by: mark smyth on November 08, 2009, 08:54:26 PM
Paul it is only the second in time since I got in to plants that I have had thefts. Last time was a large pot planted with bedding.
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