Non alpines: other types of gardening: growing veg.etc for instance

[fermi de Sousa]

Fermi: Re-Basella -  Is it perennial with you? I hadn't realised it was perennial before last year and I have two plants growing in pots I'm trying to overwinter. One is dead.

I have to grow mine indoors here, and they produce a useful amount of leaf pot-grown..

Hi Stephen,
We only got this in spring, so it hasn't seen a winter yet! It seems to be setting lots of juicy black "berries" so it might come up from seed!

cheers
fermi

[ronm]

Now that's what I call a Farmers Market, Lesley,  . Beats the things we have around here into a 'cocked hat'. Shows what can be done and I will be using your example to push a few people believe me.
Nora and I are totally 'self sufficient' in fruit, veg and eggs, and often have a surplus. With no 'sensible' Farmers Markets nearby, we have tried to give our surplus to 'needy' organisations. We always get told that the have to buy from X ( usually a chain supplier) as that is specified by the rules and regulations. So even though our produce is free and super fresh each day, it ends up on the compost a lot of the time! . If I thought it would be used in care for homeless, or elderly, or such, then I'd bend my back even more and grow even more to give. I can buy 500 cabbage seeds ( for example ) for 50p. Each could produce a  cabbage but doesn't. We only eat 20 per year! Rest is waste. . Sorry for my rant, but seeing your wonderful market, reignited what our ( Nora and I ) lifestyle was meant to be about. Thanks Lesley

[Lesley Cox]

I don't think our growers are bound by such restraints, amateur gardeners I mean, though there is a lot of regulation around the supply of commercial produce, and more coming very soon with a new Food Bill before Parliament at present. But many home gardeners and smallholder farmers give their surplace to the food banks (it offends me that there should have to BE food banks in NZ when our whole ethos since early settlement has been around the production of food for ourselves and the world) and to organizations such as the Women's Refuges. I know one couple who take 5 dozen free range eggs to the local women's refuge every week and they're very gratefully received, underfunded as such places always are.

[Stephenb]

Hi Stephen,
We only got this in spring, so it hasn't seen a winter yet! It seems to be setting lots of juicy black "berries" so it might come up from seed!
cheers
fermi

Those seed are ready! I have propagated by seed in the past, but it would be nice if I could overwinter it!

[Stephenb]

It does indeed Ron. I'm Manager of Otago Farmers' Market www.otagofarmersmarket.org.nz and have been there for the whole of its 9 year life (we'll be 9 next Saturday).

Yes, amazing market! Are there any Maori vegetables/stalls? I once visited the Otara Maori market in Auckland to witness how important the cosmopolitan weed Sonchus olearceus is to the Maori, and right enough pretty much all the vegetable stalls had this plant for sale. Do you also see it down there? This is based on an earlier tradition of using perennial native Sonchus kirkii   - love to get my hands of seed of that one one day, but it's a protected plant I believe...Here it is in the Threatened Garden of the Auckland Botanics:

[ronm]

Lesley, what would you say was the reason for your market being so successful? So many are bland and quickly succumb to invasion by large bulk producers, selling mediocre product. How do you select who can 'have a pitch' so to speak?

[Lesley Cox]

Stephen, we have no Maori stallholders as such. No special reason for that, it's just worked out that way. We do have Asian vegetables in quantity sold by the local Chinese market gardeners who have been in the area as long as or longer, in some cases than the European settlers. As you can imagine the Asian vegetables are hugely popular with our large Asian student population. Many NZers have some proportion of Maori blood and one of these has a stall where she sells "hangi" meat and vegetables. Hangi is a method of cooking in the ground. A pit is dug and lined with hot stones and green stuff. The food, mainly meats and the chunkier vegs like pumpkin, potatoes, carrots etc, is put in wire baskets then placed in the pit and covered with hot stones, greenery and soil. All this is lifted out after some hours and is beautifully cooked and tender. This method of cooking is still used extensively by Maori especially for parties or any kind of celebration, funerals etc. The Maori is tremendously hospitable and feeds not only his family but maybe 100s of people at such gatherings. Seafood, especially shellfish, is cooked the same way.

I haven't been to the Otara market but it is a hugely successful affair with every kind of fruit and vegetable as well as clothing, crafts etc, so is not like our farmers' market.

Ron the success of our market is something we often wonder about and there are several reasons I think. It was the right idea at the right time so far as Dunedin was concerned. There were a couple other farmers' markets in NZ at the time but somehow, the Dunedin population, about 110,000 just took to it like a duck to water and it has never looked back. On one memorable day when we did a gate count, we had 10,000 people on site through the morning. As a normal thing we have about 8,000 regardless of weather. That is one reason for the success. We are predictable in that we have the market every Saturday (except if Christmas Day falls on a Saturday) regardless of weather, rain, hail, snow or whatever, we'll be there (me at 6am!). Then we have always been very strict about the produce being local (Otago) and sold by the people who grow or raise it - or make, bake, brew whatever. It is ONLY a food market, no crafts or other stuff.

Another great advantage we have over any other in the country is that we have around 25,000 university and polytech students all living within walking distance of the market. In the early days they came to get a bacon buttie or a crepe for breakfast but now they come for meat and vegetables and everything else, to feed their flats.

Some people who don't shop at the market say they don't because it is too expensive and it is true there are luxury items (cherry and pinot noir sauce!) but the bulk of vegetables are a bit cheaper than the supermarkets and meat and fruit are cheaper, often a lot cheaper. Apples in the supermarket are around $3.50 to $3.99 a kilo, and less than $2 at the market. The current stone fruit is all at least a dollar a kilo cheaper and it was picked off the trees yesterday, not as much as a week ago. Red and silver beet last for two weeks if we want them to whereas what comes from the supermarket is wilted by tomorrow. I could go on for ages.

The process for becoming a vendor is reasonably strict. Someone wanting stall space makes an application to the Otago Farmers' Market Trust who consider it and give the decision. The product must be food, must be local, the person selling it must be the person (or family) who grows it. The Trust looks for vendors who will be permanent, year-round vendors and nowadays when we have no spare space, the product must be something either new, or that we haven't enough of. A balance is kept. Two stalls sell free range eggs. We have half a dozen meat vendors, about 15 who sell fruit and or vegetables exclusively. There are a maximum of 7 plant vendors. Some are seasonal of course. Small season for blueberries, the mulberries above, figs, asparagus and a number of other things. Cherries last about 6 weeks while apricots are for 3 months, depending on variety.

We encourage organic produce but don't insist on it. Basically, if it's legal, it's OK. Products fall into three categories, fresh produce (fruit, vegs, meat, local fish, eggs, honey, milk, nuts of various kinds, garlic, herbs), prepared products, from local sources so far as possible (bread and bakery, cheeses, yoghurt, jams, sauces, pickles, relishes etc, beer, wine, pies, pasta (our pasta maker also supplies Air New Zealand and Quantas Airlines), and "eat-on-the-spot" items, such as the bacon butties, crepes, lamb kebabs, vegetarian dishes from a specifically vegetarian stall holder and we have two coffee stalls, both importing and roasting their own beans since these obviously are not an Otago crop. Other things as well including the plant and flower stalls. We have a total of 95 vendors registered to sell, depending on their season and we have between 60 and 70 on any given day, even through the winter. Our stallholders include a Muslim woman, a Jewish couple, a Russian, two Frenchemen (coffee and the crepes), Chinese, Thai, Dutch, Germans, English and others from time to time so there's a good mix of nationalities (all NZers) as well as produce.  The market has become over the years a great social place. People come to shop yes, but also to meet their friends and families and have coffee and something to eat and a chat.

We have visitors from every part of the world and it's one of the main tourist attractions in Dunedin now, a little different from the albatrosses and penguins. We have been filmed for Japanese, American, UK, USA, and German TV shows and it's rare that there's no film crew from somewhere, on site on a Saturday morning. Local TV too of course. We have visitors from among the rich and famous who have heard about us - including, if you are an opera fan, the great Dame Kiri Te Kanawa, NZ TV personalities and the like, the sports people and when the Rugby World Cup was on, a huge collection of people from all those countries, all in celebratory mood. We also get politicians near election time and it's my job among other things to tell them not to campaign on our site. We have a single (free) stall available each week for local groups and charities to raise funds so have people like the fire service, Red Cross, Foundation for the Blind. schools, sports groups etc on site every week. They raise large amounts of money from donations, and buskers too do well.

I guess this is more than the 3 line answer you expected to your post Ron. I tend to get a bit carried away sometimes. One thing I love about the market is the large numbers of small children there each week with their families. I love to hear a little boy of 5, saying "No Mum, I don't like that cabbage. I want THAT one." I think we're doing a good job when children are learning that fresh wholesome food is a good thing and to be appreciated. These little kids will be the market shoppers in years to come.

[Lesley Cox]

Stephen, I don't know Sonchus kirkii and haven't seen it around here. Does it have a common name do you know? If it's a tender plant it wouldn't be grown in this area. If it could be grown here and if we could get some plants or seed I've no doubt someone would have a go.

[Maggi Young]

A word of praise for the Dunedin Market  run by Lesley.... my sister and her family shop there... they go every week, speak very highly of it

[ronm]

Thank you Lesley,  , fascinating, informative and inspirational stuff. And with passion like yours managing it I can understand why the market is so special. I asked not knowing what reply to expect, but I'm very happy with the one I got thank you! Would you mind if I read your reply out to a group of local producers that meet on a monthly basis. We are trying to set up something along the same lines but have differing views of what should constitute 'the market'. I am almost exactly in line with your thinking ( well... all in line!), and think if I may use your example and your words it might just swing it! I don't suppose I'll ever get there, but if you'd keep us updated via this forum, I for one will be most grateful.

[Lesley Cox]

Thank you Maggi, a kindly word. I haven't seen Ann and Bill for a while but with so many there I miss people frequently.

Ron, by all means use what I wrote above. Pleased to be an inspiration. I have to admit that sometimes my employers and I don't see eye to eye about certain things, usually on site matter where my day by day experience beats (in my opinion, not theirs) their more "stand back" stance. But overall, I still love my job and enjoy the social exchanges with both vendors and public, as the rest of my week is mostly on my own, Roger frequently going elsewhere in pursuit of the internal combustion engine.

[Lesley Cox]

Stephen, the answer you gave to my query re Sonchus hasn't come up here but is in my Inbox. Not sure what's happened. Anyway, what we know as puha, is the Maori word for sow or milk thistle and yes, boy do we have that here. I didn't recognize it from your picture above but the one in the nursery may be different. It looks very robust. Puha is usually boiled especially with pork and would probably by OK in a salad raw, though bitter. I'll find out from the Oratia nursery whether it is different from regular milk thistle and if so, will get a plant and I've no doubt it will seed.

There's a very irreverant song from some years ago, sung as I remember by a well known Maori quartet called the Howard Morrison Quartet. It is called "Puha and Pakeha" the latter being white or foreign people and frequently used in a pejorative sense, and the song refers to the cannabalistic tendencies of (some) Maoris when confronted for the first time with white settlers. I believe some of James Cook's people met with such an end.

[David Lyttle]

It does indeed Ron. I'm Manager of Otago Farmers' Market www.otagofarmersmarket.org.nz and have been there for the whole of its 9 year life (we'll be 9 next Saturday).

Yes, amazing market! Are there any Maori vegetables/stalls? I once visited the Otara Maori market in Auckland to witness how important the cosmopolitan weed Sonchus olearceus is to the Maori, and right enough pretty much all the vegetable stalls had this plant for sale. Do you also see it down there? This is based on an earlier tradition of using perennial native Sonchus kirkii   - love to get my hands of seed of that one one day, but it's a protected plant I believe...Here it is in the Threatened Garden of the Auckland Botanics:

I have plenty of Sonchus oleraceus in my garden as well as Sonchus asper. All the domestic livestock love it. We pull it out and feed it to the hens and sheep. It is reputed to be high in antioxidants. It has antioxidant activity comparable to that of blueberries http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21928279 My daughter had some pet guinea pigs which were feed almost exclusively on puha. They lived for about 10 years which is a remarkable age for a rodent. Non-maori tend not to eat puha - I believe it is prepared  for eating by bruising and boiling, nothing elaborate.

Sonchus kirkii has been recorded from coastal sites on the Otago Peninsula but I have not seen it

[Stephenb]

Stephen, the answer you gave to my query re Sonchus hasn't come up here but is in my Inbox. Not sure what's happened. Anyway, what we know as puha, is the Maori word for sow or milk thistle and yes, boy do we have that here. I didn't recognize it from your picture above but the one in the nursery may be different. It looks very robust. Puha is usually boiled especially with pork and would probably by OK in a salad raw, though bitter. I'll find out from the Oratia nursery whether it is different from regular milk thistle and if so, will get a plant and I've no doubt it will seed.

There's a very irreverant song from some years ago, sung as I remember by a well known Maori quartet called the Howard Morrison Quartet. It is called "Puha and Pakeha" the latter being white or foreign people and frequently used in a pejorative sense, and the song refers to the cannabalistic tendencies of (some) Maoris when confronted for the first time with white settlers. I believe some of James Cook's people met with such an end.

That's where it went! I looked all over for it, but it had vanished. Little did I know it was in NZ   Anyway, that's very kind of you, but I can easily check myself by email with the nursery and order over the net and send to you and I'd like to send you another plant of your choice from the nursery for your troubles in growing out a potential weed for me  

I bought some Puha on  the Otari market and cooked some up that evening in the apartment we'd rented. It was not at all bitter. I've since introduced Sonchus oleraceus to my garden and encourage it to crop on the edge of my vegetable plots (this involves what is essentially weeding a weed). I talked to a Maori guy and he explained that this is how they cultivated it. Managing weeds for food even has a name and is practiced in traditional cultures worldwide – cryptocropping!   I now use it regularly in mixed summer salads, stir-fries etc and again I don’t find it bitter, although others do note that it can be bitter (perhaps in winter?).

[Stephenb]

I have plenty of Sonchus oleraceus in my garden as well as Sonchus asper. All the domestic livestock love it. We pull it out and feed it to the hens and sheep. It is reputed to be high in antioxidants. It has antioxidant activity comparable to that of blueberries http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21928279 My daughter had some pet guinea pigs which were feed almost exclusively on puha. They lived for about 10 years which is a remarkable age for a rodent. Non-maori tend not to eat puha - I believe it is prepared  for eating by bruising and boiling, nothing elaborate.

Sonchus kirkii has been recorded from coastal sites on the Otago Peninsula but I have not seen it

The potential health benefits of a Puha-rich diet was something I mentioned in my missing mail yesterday. I read a paper a few years ago which put forward the hypothesis that the regular use of Puha in the diet of the Maori was a likely reason for the low incidence of bowel and intestinal cancers amongst the Maoris compared to the Europeans... This plant is also an important component of the traditional Meditteranean diet, for example on Crete, and many other local diets worldwide as this weed is found more or less everywhere!

So even more reason to eat your weeds!

I understand that Sonchus kirkii is a perennial (oleraceus is annual).