Non alpines: other types of gardening: growing veg.etc for instance

[John85]

Gail     Can you give some more information about Ana blanca please.Is the fruit pinkish or was it just not ripe?Does it crop once or twice?Is it a good cropper?

[Gail]

The fruit is ripe when it is that pinkish colour - it doesn't go red.  I think it just crops once (but relying on memory is not definite) and I wouldn't say it is a very good cropper but well worth growing for the perfume.  My plants came from the French nursery Plantes et Jardins http://www.plantes-et-jardins.com/catalogue/catalogue3.asp?id_sections=57&w1=1236

[John85]

Thank you Gail and where did you find F.moschata please.I'd like to try it.Do you have the sp or a cv.There is also a italian cv :Profuma di Tortona(may be bad spelling)Do you have it?

[Gail]

How's your German?  The best supplier of moschata cultivars is apparently Manfred Hans http://www.manfredhans.de/index.html
He sometimes lists on the German ebay site.  I tried to place an order once but was having communication problems.... 
I think I've had Profumata di Tortona from seed (though whether it comes true from seed is debatable) - I'll have a hunt at the weekend for you.

[John85]

Hello Gail  Not good I am afraid.Only fluent French and Dutch.I guess you will have to taste the fruits of all your seedlings ,select the best and divide those later.Not an unpleasant job!

[John85]

hello Stephen,
As you are a allium enthousiast may be you can help with this:
Is there a more recent book about alliums than that of dr.Davies or is it still the "bible".
I am looking for a dwarf form of A.schoenoprasum.Do you grow it?If I remember well it was found on a swedish island.
Do you grow many Phyteuma  :other edible alpines.How do they taste? I grew some but they were too beautiful to eat!!

[TheOnionMan]

hello Stephen,
As you are a allium enthousiast may be you can help with this:
Is there a more recent book about alliums than that of dr.Davies or is it still the "bible".
I am looking for a dwarf form of A.schoenoprasum.Do you grow it?If I remember well it was found on a swedish island.
Do you grow many Phyteuma  :other edible alpines.How do they taste? I grew some but they were too beautiful to eat!!

Hello John, the Dilys Davies book Alliums, the Ornamental Onions is the one and only general garden book on the genus Allium, I wouldn't characterize it as the "bible" on the subject, although it's an okay primer.  You can glean more about the genus elsewhere, such as here on the SRGC pages and in Janis Ruksan's catalog and book Buried Treasure, and a variety of resources, such as the Taxonomic Allium Reference Collection at Gatersleben, Germany: http://pgrc-35.ipk-gatersleben.de/pls/htmldb_pgrc/f?p=265:1:3461246519605790

The dwarf form of Allium schoenoprasum found on limestone "alvars" or flat tablelands on the island of Öland, off the coast of Sweden, it is named A. schoenoprasum var. alvarense.  Years ago I had both a nice purple form of this, and a pure white form, from Else Als of Denmark... but over the years the various forms of A. schoenoprasum interbreed that I can't say I have the original plants anymore.

[Stephenb]

Hi John

I was just writing a reply saying that a certain OnionMan would be here soon as he can smell a forum onion from several thousand km away and what do you know he beat me to it....!

I have many Allium schoenoprasums but the only one which I'd describe as dwarf (first picture - sorry, doesn't give you much of an impression) is white flowered and I'm not sure of its origin (possibly a variety called Lav which means low in Norwegian). I also have one which purports to be alvarense (from Sweden, second picture) is low, but I wouldn't call it dwarf (I've seen white flowered chives on the alvar on one of the Baltic islands many years ago and they were small but then they were growing out of limestone pavement). The picture shows it on the left with a cultivar "Pink" from the UK and one I received as White Alpine Chives (Allium schoenoprasum v. alpinum album).  I can send any of these in the spring if you are interested.

Re- Phyteumas, yes I've had spicatum, orbiculare and nigrum (sometimes given as P. spicatum nigrum), but not enough plants to sacrifice – until recently I’d only seen references to the roots of spicatum, orbiculare and japonicum (never seen this one) being used, but recently I found a reference to the spring leaves being cooked in Northern Italy, so I will try that in the spring. I’ve also sowed more seed of spicatum this winter and plan to grow several plants of this and Balloon Flower (Platycodon grandiflorus), used in Asia, so that I can have a proper taste of the roots.  

The first picture shows spicatum and Allium rosenbachianum album (I think) and my Kiwi at the back.

The second shows nigrum as it was. Last winter my old plants died and the self-seeded plants were much ligher coloured (crossed with spicatum?)

[Maggi Young]

John, I can recommend you to read through the Allium pages in this Forum... you will find a great many excellent photographs, descriptions and links to help
any onion lover to discover all sorts of allium facts and identities.  

Alliums are very popular plants in the Forum.

Some links to start with!
http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=2017.0     2008

http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=3028.0  2009

http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=5766.0    2010

http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=955.0

http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=1033.0

http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=4737.0

[Maren]

I bought my Gariguette and Mara des Bois strawberries from Ken Muir http://www.kenmuir.co.uk/index.php?route=product/category&path=80_117. I find they both need a lot of organic matter in their compost, like decayed leaf compost etc.

[John85]

Thank you all.
Stephen I send you a PM.
I grow a cv of chives that is larger in all his parts than the standard one.I found it in a local garden.The colour of the flowers is blue violet as the common one.Sorry no digital picture.
Any idea of what it may be ? A cv or hybrid? The only other onion common in gardens here is Allium fistulosum.

[Stephenb]

Allium schoenoprasum varies wildly in size, flower colour etc. There's one variety of Giant Chives which goes under the name "Major". Here in Norway, we have Allium schoenoprasum ssp sibiricum (Siberian Chives) which is much bigger than ordinary chives, given as 30-60 cm in my flora; it grows wild on the far northern lowlands of Norway.

[John85]

I have heard that new cultivars of blackcurrent have been bred that need less cold for flower inducing(in New Zealand I think)and tested at a research station in Scotland.Is there any information available?

[Maggi Young]

John, the Scottish Crop Research Institute (SCRI)  is a major institution for Blackcurrant breeding.
http://www.fruitbreeding.co.uk/BlackberryVarieties.asp

I haven't been able to find any info about an New Zealand bred variety as yet.

Rex Brennan, who was awarded the Scottish Horticultural Medal from the Caledonian Horticultural Society in 2007 for his work on thius fruit is a world expert.
The citation for his award read:
"As leader of the soft fruit programme at the Scottish Crops Research Institute, Rex Brennan has overall responsibility for the improvement of blackcurrants, blackberries, raspberries, gooseberries and, more recently, blueberries.


His contributions, especially to the productivity and quality of blackcurrants and to the building and sustaining of close links with the soft fruit industry, are recognised widely as outstanding. Arising directly from this industry partnership, not only has blackcurrant production in Scotland increased by around 60% in recent years but SCRI cultivars now account for 90% of all UK blackcurrants and about 50% of total world production. The health benefits resulting from the higher vitamin C content of the new cultivars and their improved resistance to pests and diseases, have substantially aided the sustainability of the Scottish soft fruit industry. 

In the wider field of soft fruit development, his team has just released Glen Doll - the first new raspberry variety from Scotland for 10 years and, in his constant search for new ways to employ his skill, Rex has begun work on neglected crops such as gooseberry. Holder of the University of Minnesota Landscape Arboretum Endowed Chair for Research in 1998-2000 and recipient of the Jones-Bateman Cup for Fruit Breeding of the Royal Horticultural Society in 2003, his reputation furth of Scotland is amply confirmed. With an enviable record of delivery to the industry and the admiration and respect of his colleagues, Rex Brennan is a very worthy candidate for a Scottish Horticultural Medal."

[Maggi Young]

Here is some info on varieties from the Blackcurrant Foundation:
 Varieties:
Variety breeding and selection in the British Isles is all run from the Scottish Crop Research Institute at Invergowrie near Dundee.

“We now routinely select varieties with increased levels of anthocyanins, especially delphinidins, which give the blackcurrant fruit and juice its rich purple colour. Some older varieties are relatively low in anthocyanins, but more recent varieties such as ‘Ben Alder’ are particularly high in these compounds, which are thought to confer major health benefits to the consumer. Future varieties will extend this attribute even further, since high anthocyanin content is one of the core characteristics sought by the blackcurrant industry, for both natural colour and health reasons. By combining high levels of desirable anthocyanins with good colour stability in the juice, the currently available varieties offer consumers and producers the ideal berry for healthy products.”
Dr Rex Brennan, Fruit Breeding Group Director.

The mainstay of the blackcurrant industry for many years was the variety `Baldwin’. Of unknown origin, `Baldwin’ is thought to be over 150 years old, and whilst generally outclassed now in terms of agronomic performance, it is still grown on a reduced scale today. `Baldwin’ has a mild flavour, and reasonable levels of vitamin C, but it is very susceptible to many foliar diseases, including mildew, and the flowers are extremely sensitive to damage by spring frosts. There are several other very old varieties that can still be found in small quantities today, including `Lee’s Prolific’ (from 1860), `Boskoop Giant’ (1880) and `Wellington XXX’ (1913).

 The first of the `Ben’ varieties bred at the Scottish Crop Research Institute was `Ben Lomond’, released in 1975. This variety still occupies a significant proportion of the UK acreage, and was released as a high-yielding type with delayed flowering to avoid damaging spring frosts at flowering time. This was achieved by the introduction of plant material from Northern Scandinavia into the SCRI programme, thereby combining high yield potential and consistency. The introduction of `Ben Lomond’ into commercial blackcurrant growing was a pivotal event in the development of modern blackcurrant varieties, and for many years `Ben Lomond’ was the leading UK variety in both acreage and performance. `Ben Lomond’ has a high winter chilling requirement, and its performance in southern parts of England may be affected after mild winters. Although resistant to mildew when released, `Ben Lomond’ is now highly susceptible to this disease.

 Released in 1989, Ben Alder offers very high levels of anthocyanins, together with a typical blackcurrant flavour. From a cross between `Ben More’ and `Ben Lomond’, this variety also has a more upright habit that is more amenable to mechanical harvesting. It has fairly small berries, held close to the stems, and again has later flowering, like `Ben Lomond’.

The late flowering character is most obvious in the variety `Ben Tirran’, released in 1990. From a complex cross involving the old variety `Seabrooks Black’, `Ben Lomond’ and SCRI hybrids with some redcurrant ancestry, `Ben Tirran’ is the latest of all the `Ben’ varieties in both flowering and ripening. It is fairly high in vitamin C, and its later ripening provides a means of extending the harvest. Yields of `Ben Tirran’ are consistently high throughout the UK.

 `Ben Hope’ was released in 1998, because of its high yields, good flavour profile and especially because of its reduced susceptibility to gall mite (`big bud’). Estimates made in field trials at East Malling Research have shown `Ben Hope’ to be up to 30 times more resistant to gall mite than other commonly-available varieties, making `Ben Hope’ a valuable asset at a time when control measures for gall mite are increasingly limited. The variety derives from a complex cross, including `Westra’ (a form of the old variety `Westwick Choice’, but with a very upright habit that is passed on to `Ben Hope’) and a hybrid with some gooseberry ancestry (from whence the relative resistance to gall mite is obtained). There are several hybrids from SCRI with complete resistance to gall mite currently in trials, but at the present time the combination of positive characteristics mean that `Ben Hope’ is the most widely-grown variety in the UK and throughout Europe, for both large-scale commercial growing and gardens.

`Ben Gairn’, also released in 1998, is the only current UK variety with resistance to reversion virus, a disease which renders the plant sterile and therefore non-fruiting. The resistance is derived from a Russian variety, `Golubka’, which was crossed at SCRI with `Ben Alder’ to produce `Ben Gairn’, and should enable the life expectancy of plants and plantations to be extended. This variety is very early in both flowering and ripening.

`Ben Avon’ and `Ben Dorain’ are sister seedlings from a cross between `Ben Alder’ and `Ben Lomond’, giving high yields, upright growth habit and very good fruit/juice quality. Released in 2003, these varieties show differences in their local adaptation, so that `Ben Dorain’ performed best in trials in the West Midlands and Scotland, whilst `Ben Avon’ was better in East Anglia. The higher vitamin C content of these varieties makes them useful alternatives to `Ben Alder’ and `Ben Tirran’.

In addition to varieties bred for the commercial juicing market, there are several varieties bred at SCRI for the PYO and amateur markets. For these markets, growth habit and juice quality is not as crucial as for processing, and there is a preference for large berries with sweeter flavour. The main varieties are `Ben Sarek’, `Ben Connan’ and the as yet-unreleased `Big Ben’; the latter is currently in trials within Europe including at the Royal Horticultural Society, and has the largest and sweetest berries compared to other types. `Ben Sarek’ and `Ben Connan’ both have reasonable habit and high yields.

At the moment, the most widely grown and popular variety for home growing is 'Ben Hope'.

All this refers to Scots bred types, it seems.