Arisaema 2011

[WimB]

Some Arisaema's flowering here now:

A. candidissimum (two different forms)
A. fargesii
A. speciosum
and A. tortuosa

[johnw]

I wonder if anyone would identify this Arisaema species for me?  It was grown as A. species ex China RBE#1519, 12-14" green; AGCBC#97-909, sown 25 January 1998.  I suspect yet another ciliatum v. liubaense of which I seem to have too many.

The photo is by talented neighbor as my camera is kaput.

My Wim that is one superb green tortuosum!  Now that's got to be Kermit.

johnw

[Lesley Cox]

My guess would be A. ciliatum, maybe the var liubiense which I don't know how to distinguish from the type. But it is just that, a guess. It looks more like a delicate and beautiful painting than a photograph.

[ranunculus]

It looks more like a delicate and beautiful painting than a photograph.

I agree totally Lesley ... this would make a lovely full-size wall-hanging in a Chinese restaurant. (and, for once, I am trying to be serious)! 

[Pascal B]

My guess would be A. ciliatum, maybe the var liubiense which I don't know how to distinguish from the type.

Basically a single character, the presence or absence of little hairs around the spathe mouth: ciliae. These hairs was what gave Arisaema ciliatum its name. Due to the fact it had all characters in common except the ciliae, the original collection that caused the creation of this variety (CT369) was named after the locality it was found so var. liubaense is the "naked" form of Arisaema ciliatum. Later fieldreports all show that the hairs are part of a varietal range and that one can find plants with clearly distinguishable hairs upto plants with smooth spathe mouths in single populations. In my view correctly var. liubaense has been sunk into ciliatum in the new Flora of China.

Only too bad that the species itself was named as such because now we have a plants belonging to this species that do not show the main character it was named after... .

One thing is for sure, the stolons make it very prolific and it is probably one of the most widespread Arisaema in cultivation right now, I can fully understand what John is saying, I myself certainly don't let it loose in the garden. It is also far more widespread in the wild than just Liuba, one of the reasons the Botanical Code advises not to name plants after locations unless there is reasonable certainty it has a very limited distribution range. As the variety was named after an introduction in cultivation there was no reason to think that.

Apart from that, the variation in section Sinarisaema, especially in China, is so huge that there is a real need for extensive fieldwork combined with DNA research in order to create any clearity in the apparant chaos, I don't even try to name plants of this section from China above the level of "aff."......  

[greenspan]

... I myself certainly don't let it loose in the garden.

...and what about this ciliatum mutant pascal? wouldn't you be happy if hundreds of them would appear in the garden?

i fully agree to what you say about the species status of the ciliatum variety var. liubaense. some of my ciliatum show these hairs, the other not. so in my opinion too it's better to say ciliatum.

[Pascal B]

Ha, yes, I am familiar with this phenomenon. It just shows that a spathe blade is nothing more than a modified leaf and that the reverse can sometimes happen. Still not sure I would like to grow it though....

As for the liubaense stuff, as far as I am aware very few actually grow the Carla Teune collection. A lot of "naked" ciliatum has been exported from China in recent years and they all seem slightly different. Problem is that once established it can mix with existing species in gardens. Section Sinarisaema easily hybridizes and particularly these species set seed easily so after a while the cultivated plants loose their value for taxonomy because you don't know what you are looking at. In general I would rely on observations in the wild only.

[Lesley Cox]

I'm quite happy to have let A ciliatum loose in the garden where it is in competition with the taller, larger and even more prolific A. consanguineum. Planted a few years ago as 1 of each, they are now maybe 1 of the former to 4 of the latter. I've not had seed on ciliatum (which I received from PC's Rare Plant nursery as nepenthoides!) but batches of seed from A. consanguineum have yielded occasional plants like ciliatum, with its beautiful pin stripes.

Anyway, what I meant to say was that while the picture John showed would make a great wall hanging in a chinese restaurant, it would be even better in my sitting room.

[bulborum]

Lesley

there is a simple program for your sitting room
see: POSTERIZA

Roland

[Lesley Cox]

Thank you Roland, but I'll probably stick with my David James and my Salvatore Petruolo.

[johnw]

No hairs spotted on this one so we shall simply label it A. ciliatum.  Thanks to all.

johnw

[Alessandro.marinello]

Arisaema! in order certainly, but I do not know the name, wide flower 1,3 cm, 5 cm in height, a Arisaema little 

[Lesley Cox]

Looks like some cheeky little bird.

[Pascal B]

Arisaema! in order certainly, but I do not know the name, wide flower 1,3 cm, 5 cm in height, a Arisaema little 

Looks like Arisaema lichiangense Alessandro

[Pascal B]

Side by side comparison of 2 forms of Arisaema kiushianum, the left has thinner leaves with more elegant flowers, the right is more sturdy and compact in all its parts with a broader spathe and a shorter spadix appendix. Both forms are easy to propagate and what you see is surplus that will be sold on E-bay this autumn. Each tuber normally produces 5-6 pups that, in contrast to a lot of species, will already produce growth the next year. Occasionally the tubers also split and the form on the right on several occasions has produced 2 flowers from the same shoot.