Four Codonopsis

[Stephenb]

I have planted many Codonopsis in my garden, but not many have survived. I have understood that there are a number of impostors in the Codonopsis world and would love to know the true identity of my 4 surviving plants. I don't have a key to the genus. Can anyone help? Pictures 1-4 are general pictures of each plant and 5-8 are the flowers.

1 and 5: My oldest plant received as Codonopsis spp (is markedly different from all the others, darker leaves and doesn't climb.
2 and 6: Received as C. pilosula
3 and 7: C. clematidea
4 and 8: C. ovata
(The last 3 all look similar in their growth form, i.e., scrambling)
9 and 10 show the leaves. Again, my unknown species is most different:

9 (from L to R) Ovata, clematidea, pilosula
10 (from L to R) Ovata, clematidea, pilosula and no name.

[Susan Band]

Hi Stephen I think most of your codonopsis  have clematidea blood in them, a common mistake in the seed exchanges. Ovata is distinct it is plain inside with blue veining. For reference there is a link to the codonopsis website on the links page, I have to admit I haven't looked at it for a while so don't know if it is up and running.

[TheOnionMan]

Try this:  http://www.kneebone.freeserve.co.uk/
Click on "Pictures of Codonopsis".

It appears the web page hasn't been updated for some time, but what is there, is a great resource.

[arisaema]

I'm wondering if the first one might be C. chimiliensis, there aren't that many erect species... See the FoC draft and the syntype thumbnail here. I'd love to trade for some seeds of it!

EDIT: Are you sure those leaves belong to a Codonopsis? There's some Codonopsis stems to the left of the Adenophora'ish unknown...

[Paul T]

The details inside codonopsis flowers are stunning aren't they?  Are they as amazing in person as they look in the pics, or is much of it lost by being small flowers that we get great detail of on our computer screens?  They look amazing!! 

[TheOnionMan]

The details inside codonopsis flowers are stunning aren't they?  Are they as amazing in person as they look in the pics, or is much of it lost by being small flowers that we get great detail of on our computer screens?  They look amazing!! 

Paul, I think Codonopsis are fantastic, particularly the taller vining types that can scramble up through a shrub.  Quite by accident, perhaps from the dumping of old ungerminated seed pots, one year I found a seedling that I could not recognize, so I let it grow on, and it started to scramble up a tall Rhododendron... turned out to be C. lanceolata. 

The flowers were as big as boiled eggs, in fact, they looked like peeled boiled eggs hanging down all over the twining vine, the eggs dimpled at the bottom, then opening up to fantastic flowers, carnous pinky-red on the inner rim and petals tips, heavily spotted in the tube. It flowered late August-September, with dozens upon dozens of these blooms midway to high up on the rhododendron, a perfect positioning to be able to look up and see the insides.  And inside each flower, there was invariably a single wasp, attracted to the barely detectable foetid scent.  It would flower for weeks on end.  I grow it for 6 years, never made any seed, then didn't come back this spring

[Lesley Cox]

The inner markings are indeed fantastic, well up there with Fritillaria and especially Calochortus. A number have come and gone through my hands, mostly through neglect, I'm ashamed to say. A special favourite is what I've always known as C. vincaeflora but may be grey-wilsonii nowadays. Oddly, it's unmarked in the centre but of such a glorious blue colour, that's irrelevant. The white form is lovely too. Must take some pictures later this year.

[Stephenb]

I'm wondering if the first one might be C. chimiliensis, there aren't that many erect species... See the FoC draft and the syntype thumbnail here. I'd love to trade for some seeds of it!

EDIT: Are you sure those leaves belong to a Codonopsis? There's some Codonopsis stems to the left of the Adenophora'ish unknown...

Whoops, that's embarassing, you are absolutely correct and I see my mistake now. If I'd waited a week I would have seen that it was an Adenophora     The Adenophora has almost taken over the Codonopsis - my notes tell me that I planted Adenophora latifolia here some years ago and I even have a photo, here:

[Stephenb]

Hi Stephen I think most of your codonopsis  have clematidea blood in them, a common mistake in the seed exchanges. Ovata is distinct it is plain inside with blue veining. For reference there is a link to the codonopsis website on the links page, I have to admit I haven't looked at it for a while so don't know if it is up and running.

Thanks, Susan! When you say "clematidea blood" do you mean that they also cross? I was aware that clematidea often turns up as an impostor and had reckoned that some of mine were this (perhaps all are in fact this   ) , but I was struck by the fact that the colouring varies quite a lot...

I've also planted and lost (before flowering) rotundifolia, tangshen, lanceolata and tubulosa. Do Codonopsis have particularly cultivation requirements or are they just not that hardy? My soil is fairly high pH (I noticed Mark mentioned climbing into a rhododendron, acid lovers?).

[Stephenb]

The inner markings are indeed fantastic, well up there with Fritillaria and especially Calochortus. A number have come and gone through my hands, mostly through neglect, I'm ashamed to say. A special favourite is what I've always known as C. vincaeflora but may be grey-wilsonii nowadays. Oddly, it's unmarked in the centre but of such a glorious blue colour, that's irrelevant. The white form is lovely too. Must take some pictures later this year.

Surprise plants! They look relatively plain until one lifts its "skirt" and peers up inside at its hidden charms (people always gasp when you show them as it is so unexpected...)

[Susan Band]

Yes they can cross with ovata that is probably why some are more open shaped than others. C. clematidea should have straightish sides. Clematidea and ovata are certainly hardy here along with some of the greener ones, but I have lost young plants of others but probabaly because I threw them out when they were dormant or didn't notice them coming through the ground. Some of the Czech collector have a few of them on their seed lists.
Susan

[Susan Band]

No one has mentioned the smell yet 

[arisaema]

Quite foxy, isn't it... Probably not ones for your salad, Stephen

[Paul T]

McMark,

Your Rhodo combo sounds delightful.  I am guessing that this genus is one of these that likes it cool and moist, and therefore would evaporate here in my summers?

[TheOnionMan]

No one has mentioned the smell yet 

I did, I mentioned the foetid scent of C. lanceolata in my post above.  Years ago, when I grew a few others, some have a skunky scent.