Pleione genetics

[Pieter]

Hello

I  am thinking about doing some hybridizing myself. The variation in Pleiones at the moment is verry spectacular. If you keep in mind that these are all the offspring of only 23 species and that there are features pressent in the hybrids who are not shown in any of the original parrents e.a. the coloration of Kenya. The red and orange tones in this hybrid are the result of many crosses. Now I am wondering what makes all these combinations possible. Is it possible that you can make the right crosses to achief a Pleione that you have in mind?

I don’t know if this is a subject that is allready on the forum but are there people who can tell something about the genetics in Pleiones? Or who knows where to find more information about this genetics?
Thank you.

Greetings

[Luc Gilgemyn]

Hi Pieter,

I'm afraid I cannot be of help on this one and probably some more knowledgeable people than me will respond here.
Just for the case you don't know it already, you might have a look at Paul Cumbleton's site : http://www.pleione.info/ where there's loads of info on hybrids, growing of Pleione from seed, etc...

[Paul Cumbleton]

Hello Pieter,
I agree that it is wonderful how much variation can come from so few species!

Because Pleione are commercially not very important, there is virtually no scientfic work done on their genetics with regard to breeding. So the few breeders that have worked on them all started by crossing almost anything simply to see what happened. The next step is to pick some character you would like to see improved or emphasized. Choose the two best plants that show at least something of this characteristic and cross them. Subsequent crosses of their best offspring, sometimes with each other or back-crossed to one of the parents (or to a different parent) is the next step - and so on, repeated until if you are lucky you will achieve what you want. Normally there needs to be at least something there to begin with of the character you want (unless by chance a mutation brings out something unexpected). Some colours such as the oranges, while not present in the species, are simply mixes of other colours that do exist - usually they are yellow overlayed with red.

So you could work towards creating the Pleione of your imagination as long as the potential is obviously there to start with. I think a Pleione with black petals and a bright green lip for example is highly unlikely antime soon. But a brilliant red-petalled pleione with a bright yellow lip should be possible. What Pleione colours had you imagined?

Paul

[Pieter]

Good evening Paul

Thank you for the kind reply on my question.

I don't realy have a color in mind that I would like to see expressed in a new hybrid. I have seen pictures of one of your latest new Pleiones , Kima, and I don't now if it was the picture but it looks to as the flower is a bit more blue in color than the most purple colored Pleiones. So maybe it would be possible to some day "make" a Pleione which has an almost blue flower just like some Vanda's have.   

I was also rather wondering if there are any rules, geneticly seen, that a breeder keeps in mind when he crosses two different Pleiones? There are more characters than the color alone to keep in mind I think. Some Pleione have lamellae and others have papillae on the lip. Depending on what it is in a new hybrid origination from a cross between the two, it can give a very different out come. I think it would even be possible to get two Pleiones who have the same coloration and patern but one with lamellae and one with papillae on the lip. I have been observing a lot of flowers to see what they resived from their parrents and it seems verry complicated.

For example: Edgecombe and El Misti . These are both a cross with aurita as a parrent. When you compare these flowers you see that the Edgecombe-grex has plants with papillae and that the El Misti-grex has plants with something intermediate between lamellae and papillae. Genetics is al about dominant and recessive traits. In the case of Edgecombe, with aurita as the seed plant, you would think that papillae are dominant over lamellae. But in the case of El Misti, were aurita was the pollen suplier, papillae are not completely dominant.
I am probably thinking to much now but genetics have always been a hobby of mine. I will just have to try  and make a new cross and hope it results in something special.

Greetings               

[sjusovare]

Hello,
Actually, genetics is not only about dominant and recessive traits, in many cases a dominant trait can be present in the genes and not showing in the phenotype, genes can also work in combination.
One should also keep in mind that aside from gene variability (alleles), the epigenetic factor also accounts for much (genes activated or not, methilation of the genes is one key), which makes many factors quite unpredictible in the case of a cross between 2 different species (which is by definition a new genetic environment for most of the genes).

[Pieter]

Hello Julien

Thank you for your awnser. I know that genetics is a lot complicater than some genes that might show or not. But you would expect that in these day's of science and the advance number of hybrids known, there would be some knowlegde about the genetics in Pleiones?

Greetings   

[Joakim B]

Pieter I presume that if the "genetics" is known it is more of things people noticed that some species may almost always give the same colour to the hydrid children etc. This knowledge based on experience is more likely to exist than sure facts since these are very complex and not known for many (any) plants.
I do not know of any experienced based known things but maybe others may know of some "trends" that may help in planing for something special.

Kind regards
Joakim