Crocus March 2009

[Gunilla]

Maggi, what a wonderful spring garden, you are far ahead of us.  I love the combination of crocus, corydalis, hepatica, leucojum and helleborus. This must surely be the best time of the year.

[Maggi Young]

It is a lovely time of year, Gunilla.... even better when the rhododendrons and erythroniums  really get started

[Alex]

Maggi,

What fantastic C. pelistericus. Can I ask, how often do you repot them?

Alex

[Maggi Young]

When I saw the photos I was amazed at the difference in the colours shown on the monitor between the first pic, taken a couple of days ago on a dull day and todays' shot in bright sun.... neither is quite right, of course....actual colour is very deep purple with just some blue!!

Theoretically,  we would aim to repot every year... in fact, these have been languishing in that pond basket for about three years now. They have only a very short time without growing roots... makes repotting a bit of a time lottery.

[Janis Ruksans]

Maggi,

What fantastic C. pelistericus. Can I ask, how often do you repot them?

Alex

I repot pelistericus, scardicus, scharojanii once in two years. All they are quite difficult because they allways are with roots. Scharojanii I'm repotting in middle July and try not to damage roots - immediately planting in new pot. Pelistericus and scardicus I'm repotting at end of August as their seeds ripe very late. There are one out-grown species with same habit - C. veluchensis. It makes new roots before leaves die but it didn't suffer much from replanting. After harvesting I keep its corms in plastic bag with slightly moist peat moss. It works very well.
Here still deep winter, snowing almost every day and at weekend offered minus 10 C. Where is global warming?
Janis

[Thomas Huber]

Gunilla, your unknown Crocus looks like vernus to me, although I also see a yellow throat, which would exclude vernus.

The dark one can't be Herald, because Herald has a dark throat, yours is brighter than the top of the petals
and much smaller than the true Herald. I think it's a seedling.

[Tony Willis]

Maggi,

What fantastic C. pelistericus. Can I ask, how often do you repot them?

Alex

I never repot mine,I have just put the ball of compost into a bigger pot without disturbing the roots.

Janis I find your comments on Crocus veluchensis roots very interesting because I always dry mine off. Not any more, I will try your method but can you tell me does the same apply to Crocus sieberi and do you treat them the same?

[Sinchets]

Any help with this Crocus found in SE Bulgaria about 5m above sealevel in a sandy soil. The style is six branched and the anthers are smaller than 'typical' Crocus flavus we have here. The floral tube is a bronzy brown and there is a faint greenish black streaking  leading from this to the petals. Flora Bulgarica lists only Crocus flavus for this area. Sorry no side view available the pics were taken on site and the side shot didn't work.

[Jim McKenney]

Gunilla, your unknown Crocus looks like vernus to me, although I also see a yellow throat, which would exclude vernus.

The dark one can't be Herald, because Herald has a dark throat, yours is brighter than the top of the petals
and much smaller than the true Herald. I think it's a seedling.

Thomas, I think you might be right on both counts.

But there are some things which cause me to have doubts.

For instance, do you think the yellow color in the throat is real color? Might it simply be a reflection of the color of the anthers?

For another, imagine that it is years ago and we are being shown purported Crocus speciosus with yellow throats. Wouldn't we say "They can't be Crocus speciosus because that species does not have a yellow throat" ? Yet the eventual discovery of the xantholaimos forms of that species would cause us to revise our thinking.

And here's something else: Mathew in his discussion of Crocus vernus in  The Crocus mentions a Crocus montenegrinus which has the peculiarly deformed anthers seen in Gunilla's crocus (the distal part of the anther is modified into a style-like structure). Mathew goes on to say that this mutation occurs sporadically throughout the genus (and thus is not diagnostic for montenegrinus or any other form of Crocus vernus). It intrigues me that we are, with Gunilla's plant, obviously dealing with something with strong Crocus vernus influence, something which is basically Crocus vernus but with some peculiar differences.

The closely related Crocus etruscus has a yellow throat, and a chromosome count the same as that of some forms of C. vernus: I wonder if we are looking at a hybrid?

[tonyg]

Any help with this Crocus found in SE Bulgaria about 5m above sealevel in a sandy soil. The style is six branched and the anthers are smaller than 'typical' Crocus flavus we have here. The floral tube is a bronzy brown and there is a faint greenish black streaking  leading from this to the petals. Flora Bulgarica lists only Crocus flavus for this area. Sorry no side view available the pics were taken on site and the side shot didn't work.

It could be Crocus olivieri ssp olivieri which is listed for S Bulgaria amongst other places.  (Forgive my ignorance if that is hundreds of miles from you! .... but it could still be C olivieri.)  Leaves few and wide for olivieri ... difficult to judge from the pic.  Flowers generally smaller than flavus and more rounded petal shape.  The divided style fits olivieri.

[Jim McKenney]

The dark one can't be Herald, because Herald has a dark throat, yours is brighter than the top of the petals
and much smaller than the true Herald. I think it's a seedling.

Thomas, what does this mean? In Gunilla's photo, the throat is not shown. And how are you judging the size of the flower?

Now that I've gone back and taken another look at Gunilla's image, I notice something else. My plants of 'Herald' have a bright orange-red style, something I do not see in Gunilla's image.

Here are two images of what I grow as 'Herald'. Note the wide variation in the color seen in the images - due, no doubt, to the light conditions when the photos were made.

Thomas, do these agree with what you know as 'Herald'?


edit by Maggi- Jim, I've turned your photo around!

[Maggi Young]

I was finding it tricky to go  back and forth to Gunilla's  ??'Herald'  photo so here it is  again....

[Sinchets]

Any help with this Crocus found in SE Bulgaria about 5m above sealevel in a sandy soil. The style is six branched and the anthers are smaller than 'typical' Crocus flavus we have here. The floral tube is a bronzy brown and there is a faint greenish black streaking  leading from this to the petals. Flora Bulgarica lists only Crocus flavus for this area. Sorry no side view available the pics were taken on site and the side shot didn't work.

It could be Crocus olivieri ssp olivieri which is listed for S Bulgaria amongst other places.  (Forgive my ignorance if that is hundreds of miles from you! .... but it could still be C olivieri.)  Leaves few and wide for olivieri ... difficult to judge from the pic.  Flowers generally smaller than flavus and more rounded petal shape.  The divided style fits olivieri.

Thanks Tony. I was hoping it would be Crocus olivieri ssp olivieri because of the divided style. It is in the right place and not far away from the Turkish border. 

[I.S.]

Simon I live just this side of Bulgarian frontier. I am sure that is C. olivieri subsp. olivieri and it is very common here. C. flavus subsp. flavus is more rare for that location.

[Lesley Cox]

So much to learn, so many new images to study, if I don't check into this thread for a few days. Many thanks to everyone.

My first C. kotschyanus are out, beginning a new crocus year for me. I plan to make a complete list off all crocuses I grow this year (she said hopefully, but we all know about the triumph of hope over experience). Even more, to marke where they are growing.