Alpine Nurseries

[ian mcdonald]

I know the plight of alpine nurseries has been raised before but wonder what we as consumers can do about the decline in numbers of alpine nurseries? Inchriach nurseries has reluctantly ceased selling alpine plants. I was told that due to the poor sales it had become un-economic to continue. The cake shop, however, seems as popular as ever. Well worth a visit. John said the decision to cease selling alpine plants was not taken lightly in view of the many years Jack Drakes had been trading. As customers of alpine nurseries their fate is in our hands. Quite a few of the specialist alpine nurseries have had to close due to falling sales. The "supermarket" type plant growers are taking over the gardening trade. This is not good news for people who want those "special" plants for their gardens, as the larger sellers concentrate on plants that have more garden appeal to the general public, i.e. those that want instant effect and colour but are less interested in the plants they use. What can we do to make sure the "specialist" nurseries continue to trade? I have recently found out that aquatic specialist nurseries are also suffering from poor sales. Any ideas from members regarding our hobby and the continuation into the future would be welcome by everyone, I,m sure. Some nurseries sell plants that many members would like but the time spent in providing a mail order service is perhaps not worth the trouble? I don,t know what the answer is, perhaps other members have it? What I do know is, if we do nothing our pastime will cease to be. 

[Leucogenes]

This subject occupies me also very much. I think it gives several aspects... First the operators of alpine nurseries  become not younger and find no successor. Secondly the age of the friends of alpine plants is often quite high everywhere. One cannot feel sick an older person if he does not buy many plants for a lot of money every year. The third aspect is in my opinion the most important... the general interest is simply absent small botanical / native plants. I observe this every year on some plants - stock exchanges in Germany. The people are often interested only in plants with big blossoms. Solitaires shrubs are simply spectacular for most people. Unfortunately. Most people simply pass small seedlings with botanical name. And it is natural also a season - business. There one already needs a long breath in winter. All that will also keep some young people from getting into this business. With an easy garden - plants one can earn his money maybe better. It is just a special subject. Everybody likes a nice Alpinum..., however, the least ones are ready to invest the work. I am 45 years old and know some collectors... everybody some are years older than me.

 However, I try to support the alpine nurseries in Germany and UK and buy every year quite a lot of plants.

Thomas

Sorry for my english

[Graeme]

biggest issue in the UK is land - 20 years ago there were a lot of small nurseries near me - now they are all housing estates.

We have a small nursery, which we have to house our own plant collections.  One of my friends is a builder and he is just itching to build houses on the land we have.  We joke about it every time he comes round to build tunnel or greenhouse bases - I just tell him to keep his hands off.  Sadly when we sell up that is all that will happen.

People are just not interested in plants as much as they were - gardens are smaller and there are too many other distractions. Where I work no one is interested in what we grow or what we do.  I am happy to have a normal car and have a new glasshouse - whereas my colleagues have to have the latest BMW or Range Rover.  They just don't get the happiness that plants bring.

I am getting towards being able to retire and at that stage the nursery area will be run on a more commercial basis - rather than an expensive hobby.  The sad thing is that as soon as I sell up everything I have built and loved building will be flattened and executive houses will be built.  My wife says would I ever come back to have a look and the answer is never.

I now know why the lady who we bought the house and the nursery from said "are you going to run it as a nursery" - she allowed us to move all our plants in the week before the sale went through, and she looked relieved that it was someone who actually had a lot of plants. 

I can see why small nurseries are closing it is difficult to make a living - money is becoming tight again for most households and the first thing people cut back on are things that are not essential.

The only glimmer on the horizon for me was the Loughborough AGS show this year - there were a lot of plants on display and a lot of people buying plants.
Only downside was Bakewell AGS show, very few plants to actually buy - I cannot remember buying so little at a show

Looking forward to the Autumn AGS show at Loughborough to do a bit of shopping

Apart from Ashwood Nurseries is there anyone in the UK who has the more unusual forms of Cyclamen for sale? 

[Yann]

I'll add that most of the UK nurseries don't ship plants abroad, the brexit will not help at all.
Compared to german, dutch, poland, east nurseries where export is in the blood of people. Think it's cultural.
Younger peoples click and buy, nurseries should transform the way they sell.
i'm thinking of Pottertons, Ashwood just to name a few that ship plants.

I know it's time consuming for the seller but less expensive for the customer than filling the tank and drive round trip 300 miles or so. It's a pure economical view, not a human one because i also like to meet the growers.

Thomas i'm 43, i sometimes feel like a zombie when i talk to my friend of my hobby :+)) Don't worry

[Leucogenes]

Yann, I agree with you in all areas. Nowadays it is simply usual that one has an online shop. And dispatches the plants. This makes an amount of work. Not only this dispatch... also an online shop a care needs and must be always updated. But it is simply much more comfortable for the buyer to shop from home. I am ready with pleasure for it to pay more money. Of course an anonymous order can never be so informative by catalogue or online shop, how the purchase directly on site. I have to know the luck some name-like gardeners in Germany personally. And am very grateful for it. Even friendship has thereby developed. The talks with the operators are very important to me. In the talks it mostly is only at the beginning about plants. We talk also a lot about other subjects... often it becomes really philosophical.

 Gardeners are other people.

 In our quick time such characters are very rare. The idealism for the plants and the perception on general subjects... all that impresses me very much. Today I think about many things differently than earlier. Oh... I believe I also become just philosophically ... sorry. 

In any case, it is not easy for the gardeners. We can just support them.
This very good  forum is a part of it.

Yann...it ist same with me . My other friends do not understand my enthusiasm for plants. I often harvest incredulous looks and shaking of the head. If they knew what to them escapes! 

Thomas

[Maggi Young]

A reminder of the list of nurseries compiled by David Nicholson..... List of suggested specialist nurseries  here:   http://files.srgc.net/journals/NurseryListSRGC.pdf

[Tim Ingram]

We are not really viable Ian. The median disposable income in the UK is £26 300, which implies a gross income of £33 820. So the small specialist nurseryman has to sell ca. £2500 of plants per month just to realise an average income - but realistically gardeners only really buy plants in the spring and summer in any quantity so this implies selling £5000 per month during the strong season of garden buying (or concentrating on snowdrops and cornering a specialist part of the market in February    , and charging abnormal amounts per plant...). But not only this, the nurseryman also has to organise and create the very situations he needs to sell these plants and faces competition from Garden Centres and large Plant Shows and the vested interests of others to make returns from attracting people to these. So enterprise can easily founder against lack of of opportunity and opposition. So the specialist nursery rarely makes much if any profit and therefore is of no interest to a profit-driven society. The question that follows is 'what is the relationship between the specialist nursery and the specialist plant society and the gardens that result', and as a corollary 'what is the value of the specialist plant society' and 'what is the value of gardens'? We were just talking about this today at a get together of our small plant group, and one of the significant conclusions we came to was their roles in the conservation of plants. And taking the thrust of your environmental perspective, 'the value of the relationship between the specialist plant societies and nurseries (and plantspeople) with the natural world of plants'? These are quite philosophical questions to do with how we view the world and live our lives, and are governed. I take the simplistic view that the plants we grow originate from the world we live in and to know about them and garden with them is to know more about the world and the environment we all live in, and thus has intrinsic personal and wider value. But a politician or businessman would poo-poo such a viewpoint as absurdly naive. I'm not sure where you go from here? You believe in what you do, or you are corralled into the world of commerce driven by those often unsustainable 'market forces' that politics always looks to to solve the problems that those market forces often create! On the whole the specialist nurseryman is a grumpy individual who relies on the occasional kind comments from like-minded gardeners and the market chances that arise from hard work and collaboration. Rather like the specialist societies we belong and contribute to ! I don't know the answer to your question but for some reason I continue to make a garden and propagate the plants that it requires to exist. (And I have just written something about this for the 'RHS Garden', highlighting the vital role of specialist plant societies in horticulture).

[Yann]

Here is a well-structured answer, i pretty know that incomes from the sells of alpines plants can rarely make a family live.
Often the spouse works as an employee for regular incomes. Weather is also an unpredictable element that can lead to disaster for the whole house.

As you mention most growers of this range of plants are passionate people before being businessmen.

I know many horticulturists, my very best friend grows Kalanchoe on 14Ha of greenhouses, export 80% to UK and Germany.
Incomes are hight (3 houses,Porsche, etc), he consider himself as an industrial, not a grower. Each 15mn his smartphone notify gross margin, sales volumes....we're far away of small scale nursery. I don't think his view is philosophic 

You do well to talk about relation between plants societies and growers, most of them are working alone with often a well-dimensioned ego. They often don't know the societies exists or don't want to contact them but what to do?

I also know a small nursery that was near to close in 2015, the guy decided to reduce species in culture and setup a webshop.
at June 2017, 65% of the incomes are from the website. His website is referenced to several plants societies.
As in all sectors of activity, internet changes the way to trade.

[Maggi Young]

I also know a small nursery that was near to close in 2015, the guy decided to reduce species in culture and setup a webshop.
at June 2017, 65% of the incomes are from the website. His website is referenced to several plants societies.
As in all sectors of activity, internet changes the way to trade.

 I hope we have a link to this in our links pages, Yann - please let me know about this little business so we can give a little publicity.

[ian mcdonald]

I have sent a message to gardeners world, again, asking for a feature on alpines. A visit to an alpine nursery with tips from a grower about alpines , would be useful. Nothing so far. I hope this would bring alpines to the attention of a wider public. Now the programmes are extended to an hour I,m sure alpines could be included as well as the general herbaceous plants. Publicity and more publicity is needed.

[Graeme]

I have sent a message to gardeners world, again, asking for a feature on alpines. A visit to an alpine nursery with tips from a grower about alpines , would be useful. Nothing so far. I hope this would bring alpines to the attention of a wider public. Now the programmes are extended to an hour I,m sure alpines could be included as well as the general herbaceous plants. Publicity and more publicity is needed.

Its about time they got rid of MD and got someone in who actually knew what they are doing - also they need to get another gardening programme on other than GW.  Beechgrove is excellent.  I am also fed up with the BBC cancelling the gardening programmes every time there is a sporting event on

[David Nicholson]

Got a parcel delivery of plants yesterday from Plants for Small Gardens including a collection of Autumn Gentians. Cracking plants and really well grown and packed. I can thoroughly recommend them.

https://www.plantsforsmallgardens.co.uk/

[Maggi Young]

Got a parcel delivery of plants yesterday from Plants for Small Gardens including a collection of Autumn Gentians. Cracking plants and really well grown and packed. I can thoroughly recommend them.

https://www.plantsforsmallgardens.co.uk/

Got a parcel delivery of plants yesterday from Plants for Small Gardens including a collection of Autumn Gentians. Cracking plants and really well grown and packed. I can thoroughly recommend them.

https://www.plantsforsmallgardens.co.uk/

Sounds  good!   
Plants for Small Gardens, Goosegate, Bridford, Exeter EX6 7LW

EU Plant passport number: UK/EW 105239 ZPa2

[Graeme]

Had plants by post this year from Edrom and Border Alpines

Both were really well packaged and arrived in perfect condition - well done

[IanR]

I've had a couple of deliveries from several of our small alpine nurseries including Hartside and Pottertons. Excellent service, well packed and quick turnaround. In contrast I ordered 2 plants from one of the major mail order nurseries - you can guess which one - they used to email me daily - on May 22. Last I heard I will get them in August! Congratulations to our small family suppliers. I'm just sorry that I cant think of anything else to order from them!