Yellow Snowdrops

[Alan_b]

Joe Sharman frequently gives talks on yellow snowdrops and he always says that on his soil yellow snowdrops come green.  I guess that's a useful bit of full disclosure but it must mean that if you have the wrong soil, you will need to grow your yellow snowdrops in pots to see their yellow colour.

[Bernadette]

Yes Maggi, Mother Goose is new and not well known which is why, if it is not stable, we should be told before we buy.  I love the North Green catalogue and I have many great snowdrops from there. This isn’t a discussion which is meant to offend; it is just a plea for accurate description of a new introduction. Ingrid is absolutely right to pursue this in the interests of fair marketing.

There is your answer,  a new introduction could behave differently in every garden.  It's a
bulb not a manufactured object.  Other than put a disclaimer on every new bulb, there
may  be variation in colour, amount of green, height, etc....  it's  always fascinating to
to wonder why a subject keeps being brought up when it has been said already.

[Maggi Young]

  it's  always fascinating to
to wonder why a subject keeps being brought up when it has been said already.

As I said before -  it is in the interests of transparency.  Since no disclaimer is being made  by the original seller on a snowdrop which is still being sold for what for many people is a lot of money it is helpful to newcomers to see what the situation is. In the same way as Ingrid has done such marvelous work to  expose some of the  worst ebay offenders.

Some people and I am one,  find the obfuscation that surrounds a lot of the snowdrop world to be deplorable and frankly, unseemly.

[Blonde Ingrid]

I have already pointed out that this snowdrop delivers unreliable results in a variety of growing conditions e.g

we have problematic reports from multiple growers, using various growing conditions!

I grow a large number of yellow varieties and this is the only one which has proven problematic. Indeed, on the subject of growing conditions, I have already pointed out that both my Mother Goose were yellow last year and green this, so it is not that it behaves differently in every garden but that it is unreliable in the same garden. A number of other growers have tried various conditions and soil types and got the same results. Clearly growing conditions and soil are not the determining factor.

Snowdrop variability is a known phenomena, which is exactly what trialling is meant to identify before offering to the market. When it is identified, as in the case of Mother Goose, it should be reported to potential buyers so that they can decide whether that variability is acceptable to them at the price being offered. This was not done and I am bemused as to why identifying this issue seems to make some uncomfortable.

Repetitive discourse results from a photo of Mother Goose, 48 hours ago, again showing green instead of yellow. Indeed, a number of Mother Goose have been offered in the last week and are receiving bids. I want to make sure that at least these potential buyers have an informed decision and am again bemused why some seem so uncomfortable with this! The discourse could have been avoided in it's entirety if North Green had published a warning in their 2017 & 2018 catalogues, when advised to do so, which they opted not to do.

[Josh Nelson]

I had heard it needed time to settle down (and what sounded like potentially too long a time) but it sounds as if it is less reliable than even that. I for one welcome that increased awareness. I'll likely wait until one of Hagen's more interesting variants becomes available.

[Josh Nelson]

as an aside (and back to more reliable snowdrops), here is a recent picture of my own yellow with its still fresh green coloured leaves and ripening seed pods.  It varies a bit itself though and emerged less bright this year than last (when it emerged with golden shoots).  Grake's Gold also looked a similar colour this year from a photo I saw posted (I only have Grake's Yellow although I suspect i'ts somewhere between the two in colour terms).

The inner seems to change from a lightish green with yellow suffusion above to a more straight yellow colour with white above (as in the second and third photos);  I need more time to evaluate this though to see if it is a consistent feature or not. 

It was found in February 2016 and seems to grow well (much more vigorous than my Grake's Yellow for instance).

[Bernadette]

I had heard it needed time to settle down (and what sounded like potentially too long a time) but it sounds as if it is less reliable than even that.

Possibly as so many collectors have their snowdrops almost all in pots, where they are
artificially managed on both watering, feeding, light, summer warmth and winter
temperatures it's impossible to claim varying conditions produce anything and I think
personally it makes it hard for a snowdrop to truly settle down and reach its true potential.

I now try to put everything in the garden and use a lot of oak leaf mould and I think
they are much happier and stronger.

[Alan_b]

I now try to put everything in the garden and use a lot of oak leaf mould and I think
they are much happier and stronger.

I can well believe that, Bernadette, but we gardeners are always trying to grow things in conditions that may be some way removed from what a plant would enjoy in its native habitat.  Part of the fun of gardening is the challenge of doing this.  I would love a source of oak leaf mould but don't have room for an oak tree. 

Also, if you consider all snowdrop species, they grow in such a wide range of different conditions it would be quite impossible to provide for all of them in any one garden.  However I do agree that a plant that is less happy and performing less well may not produce flowers of the best strength or colour.  I happen to grow a lot of snowdrops in pots because conditions in my garden are sub-optimum.  They may flower a bit less well and bulk-up a bit more slowly than those few that I can grow in a leaf mould bed but I have never noted any colour differences.       

[Bernadette]

Also, if you consider all snowdrop species, they grow in such a wide range of different conditions it would be quite impossible to provide for all of them in any one garden. 

I agree and understand that.  It was more the settling down thing I was replying to,
as people are controlling through nurture the health of snowdrops in pots.  So it's
impossible to compare and comment on why, or what someone else is doing differently.

There was a lovely article on North Green in the telegraph? this year, I am actually more
intrigued than ever to buy Mother Goose as I think it would be interesting to grow and is
quite beautiful.   I actually bought the house because of the garden and oak trees, but
even in a suburban setting quite often people are happy for you to collect their leaves up
as they see them as a nuisance.

[Alan_b]

... I actually bought the house because of the garden and oak trees,

Oh I can sympathise with that!  But when we bought our house 21 years ago the garden was not such a major consideration as it would be now that we are getting more time to spend in it.

[Maggi Young]

as an aside (and back to more reliable snowdrops), here is a recent picture of my own yellow with its still fresh green coloured leaves and ripening seed pods.  It varies a bit itself though and emerged less bright this year than last (when it emerged with golden shoots).  Grake's Gold also looked a similar colour this year from a photo I saw posted (I only have Grake's Yellow although I suspect i'ts somewhere between the two in colour terms).

The inner seems to change from a lightish green with yellow suffusion above to a more straight yellow colour with white above (as in the second and third photos);  I need more time to evaluate this though to see if it is a consistent feature or not. 

It was found in February 2016 and seems to grow well (much more vigorous than my Grake's Yellow for instance).

Did you  get going with a paint brush, Josh, or  did  you have natural early pollinators?

[Blonde Ingrid]

I am actually more intrigued than ever to buy Mother Goose as I think it would be interesting to grow and is
quite beautiful.

Well, at least you have been made aware up front what the potential problems are unlike the catalogue, let's hope you get a random yellow one instead of a green or yellow to green version. You have reminded me of the Telegraph article, extolling the virtues of Mother Goose, indeed stating it was one of 'Three for Your Wish List', but no mention of the greening problem, odd that another opportunity to inform buyers was passed up!

I repeat once again, the problems have been reported from those that grow both in the garden - like mine, yellow last year, green this, and in pots, so that is not the issue.

[Bernadette]

Personally I think Val Bourne writes intelligently and with witty humour
and when I am dead and buried I am sure the contribution of her and North Green
will be more important to snowdrops and an artistically good eye to beauty, with the
collecting and breeding and reporting of gems of different snowdrops, than anything
you and I are currently contributing.  So really I think we should appreciate that
and start using the forum to get it back to where it used to be with photos of events
and peoples plants and gardens.  Gardening should be a pleasure.

[Blonde Ingrid]

Gardening should be a pleasure.

I agree, it is much more of a pleasure when there are no unpleasant surprises, due to sharing of relevant information.

[Bernadette]

One is starting to wonder why you must constantly keep going on about this.
As you have acquired hundreds of snowdrops, and this one displeases you so much,
just sell it on eBay or give it away and replace it with something that makes you happy.
Really life is too short.