Germination Problems

[johnw]

I've never been able to sprout Berberis empetriformisfolia or Sorbus poteriifolia.   I wonder if anyone might be able to give me a few tips?


johnw

[Hoy]

Do you mean Berberis empetrifolium?

I have managed to germinate B. empetrifolium seed from Chile once. I had the pot outside during winter but didn't do anything special.

Maybe you can try a strong acid on both kind of seed? The berries go through the bird's digestive system where they are brutally treated.


Berberis empetrifolium from Argentina:

[Hans J]

Hello Hoy ,

that is a interesting idea to treat the seeds with acid ...I had a similar mind
Do you have a receipt which acid ? how many % ?

Best wishes
Hans

[johnw]

Indeed the species I meant was B. empetrifolia, no wonder nothing came up when I googled.  Years ago I treated Cercis and Albizia with H2SO4, straight up and for only a few seconds then a rinse, and had great germination.  Recently I simply pour boiling water over the seeds and let them sit in that water overnight, swelling is noticeable by morning and they sprout rapidly.  I have no acids about these days and wonder if this hot water treatment would suffice.  Wiki mentions the seeds have a waxy layer and wonder if straight acid is required to melt that wax away?

Quite enamoured with this species as a friend in eastern Newfoundland grows it from her own seed collection in S America.

john

[Gabriela]

You may also want to read this article John - where they studied the seeds dispersal/germination after consumed by a local lizard:
http://www.ieb-chile.cl/uploads/publicaciones/Celedon-Neghme_et_al_2008_Acta_Oecol.pdf

But it is renown a species with low germination percentage which may indicate embryonless seeds or other embryon-related deficiencies. In any case, scarification followed by cold/moist stratification should lead to some germination if the seeds are viable. Instead of acids, various solvents can be used - maybe the easiest would be ethyl alcohol.
For Myrica gale the waxy seed coat can be removed by repeated washes with warm water/detergent/rinses.

[Philippe]

Concerning Sorbus poteriifolia, I didn't have problem with it.
Right after harvest, I simply took the seeds out of the berries, put them in the sowing pot, and let the winter do the rest of the job.

[Darren]

Concerning Sorbus poteriifolia, I didn't have problem with it.
Right after harvest, I simply took the seeds out of the berries, put them in the sowing pot, and let the winter do the rest of the job.

Same here. Think it needs a good cold winter.

[ashley]

I've never succeeded with Sorbus seed (even fresh) in pots outdoors although rowan seedlings from bird droppings are almost a weed in the garden.  Therefore it seems that temperature is not the only trigger.

[johnw]

I've tried S. poteriifolia at least 10 times and have given it plenty of winter but no luck.  Had one seed each of  S. radaiensis and S. caloneura PW#15 sprout over the years.  No luck with S. megalocarpa either.

Bean says this of S. poteriifolia and I wonder what the herbaceous reference means?



john

[Darren]

Possibly like Salix herbacea in that, though woody, the branches are often beneath the soil surface/litter and therefore the plant appears herbaceous when all the leaves fall in winter.

[Hoy]

Bean says this of S. poteriifolia and I wonder what the herbaceous reference means?



john

I think he means those species are more like a herb with no woody stem above ground.

[Hoy]

Hello Hoy ,

that is a interesting idea to treat the seeds with acid ...I had a similar mind
Do you have a receipt which acid ? how many % ?

Best wishes
Hans

Hans,

I have no receipt but I think the concentration don't matter that much. You don't need to dissolve the seed though! Sulphuric acid (H₂SO₄) is strong and can damage organic matter quickly. I have used hydrochloric acid (HCl) maybe ca 20% for a few hours.

[Hans J]

Trond ,

many thanks for your information

Thats well that HCl also works ...I have it here at home

I asked today friend and I got the suggestion to look for the PH value ...PH2 should be well

Hans

[Carolyn]

I've never succeeded with Sorbus seed (even fresh) in pots outdoors although rowan seedlings from bird droppings are almost a weed in the garden.  Therefore it seems that temperature is not the only trigger.

I have grown various sorbus from seed. I wash off the fruit pulp and rinse the seeds well, soaking them for a week and changing the water every day. Then the seeds are sown in a pot and subjected to a Scottish winter in the open air. Ashley, perhaps your weather is too mild in Cork? But the seeds which have been cleaned by birds germinate OK. It must be down to cleaning and soaking. I'm not keen on messing about with strong acids, would vinegar or lemon juice be effective? Anyone tried this?

[Gabriela]

I've never succeeded with Sorbus seed (even fresh) in pots outdoors although rowan seedlings from bird droppings are almost a weed in the garden.  Therefore it seems that temperature is not the only trigger.

Ashley, here is one more thought on Sorbus:
They have a fully developed embryo and simple physiological dormancy, but it has been shown that if at the end of stratification period the conditions are unfavorable (usually regarding the temp.) the seeds will enter a secondary dormancy; and this has a genetic basis.
I don’t know if it explains entirely why your Sorbus seeds don't germinate (I understand seeds from other sources), but many studies proved that inherited germination characteristics is the reason why species from various families will show differences in germination in case of seeds collected from different habitats/regions.

On short, if it's about S. poteriifolia, Darren or Philippe should send you some of theirs genetically-fit seeds