Evolution of a Crocus Garden

[Lesley Cox]

I was about to remark that I had a couple of pods on caspius as well, but below the surface. A few years ago when I dug some corms to send away, the forkful of corm and soil was also full of just germinating seeds. I hastily put the whole lot back.

I also have a few pods on the Alan McMurtrie Iris reticulata hybrids.

[Paul T]

Janis,

Where do the cvijicii seedpods end up?  Do they push above ground, or do they ripen underground?  I never realised that some ripen UNDERground, always figuring they would push to the surface.  Now I am wondering whether the cvijicii will do that, and if they don't then how do I tell when they're ripe? 

Which other species never have their seedpods emerge?  I'm just finding out now, so I can work out whether I need to go and check for underground seedpods on any of the species I am growing. 

Thanks for any information.

[tonyg]

Janis,
Where do the cvijicii seedpods end up?  Do they push above ground, or do they ripen underground?  I never realised that some ripen UNDERground, always figuring they would push to the surface.  Now I am wondering whether the cvijicii will do that, and if they don't then how do I tell when they're ripe? 
Which other species never have their seedpods emerge?  I'm just finding out now, so I can work out whether I need to go and check for underground seedpods on any of the species I am growing. 
Thanks for any information.

I am sure Janis will have something to add but these are my experiences.
The only species that always ripens seed (just) below the surface is Crocus caspius.  Others may have seed pods which don't make it above ground but this only happens when a sudden warming induces premature dormancy.  In this latter case the seeds may be viable but are sometimes not fully developed or are 'damaged' by the early dormancy.
Crocus cvijicii should ripen above ground.  The stem below the pod will lengthen rapidly when the time is right.  Then, above ground, the pod ripens and splits open quite quickly ... so be on your guard!

[Paul T]

Thank you, exactly the information that I needed.  Are the leaves still green on cvijicii when the pod matures?  Mine are still very green, although the pods below ground are quite large.

[Thomas Huber]

Paul, my Crocus korolkowii seeds never push above ground. I've also read, that the same goes for the
other two species in this series (orientalis): michelsonii and alatavicus, but I don't have experiences
with seed set on these two. Perhaps Ian or Janis can give more details.

[mark smyth]

Otto my C. veluchensis alba open the colour of yours but fade to white

[Ragged Robin]

Gosh Mark, they look lovely in the sunlight even if they fade 

[Janis Ruksans]

Janis,

Where do the cvijicii seedpods end up?  Do they push above ground, or do they ripen underground?  I never realised that some ripen UNDERground, always figuring they would push to the surface.  Now I am wondering whether the cvijicii will do that, and if they don't then how do I tell when they're ripe? 

Which other species never have their seedpods emerge?  I'm just finding out now, so I can work out whether I need to go and check for underground seedpods on any of the species I am growing. 

Thanks for any information.

There are four species which ripes below surface of ground - caspius and closely related to it Central Asian trio. But sometimes even their seedpods come out partly from ground. Other species normally pushes seedpod out of soil (cvijicii, too) but sometimes they open just at soil level or even partly underground. May be Tony is right - it is caused by sudden drought, but I'm not certain.
I prefair to collect seeds when seedpod starts to split. Then you will not loose seeds. By E.A. Bowles - he gently squeezed the seedpod between fingers - if it was hard, it was possible to harvest and left in box for final ripening. I did this a day before travel for not to loose some seed. Germination rate was the same as with ripened seeds. By my opinion - important is to saw as soon as possible. If seeds are well ripened - red,brown, black etc. - I try to saw them immediately, even in same day or next day. If seeds still are not completely ripened - white, pinkish, greenish - I leave them for few days in box and saw after final ripening. Otherwise they can rot. I can't to see great difference between keeping of seeds mixed with sand in plastic bag till autumn (used by Ian Young) and immediate sawing as it happens in nature.
About sawing depth - Ian recommends deep sawing (see one of earlier bulb logs), I'm covering seeds with 1 cm of sharp sand and 1 cm of stone chips. Seeds germinate well. My be Ian's style helps to keep more even moisture. I didn't experimented as seeds germinate very well in my style, too. By me for a lot of bulbs (Crocus, Iris, Erythroniums, Corydalis etc. most important is sawing as early as only possible. Not so important with Tulipa, Fritillaria, Allium, Muscari, Scilla, Ornithogalum etc. Of course the best to finish sawing in September or first days of October. More you can read in my book BURIED TREASURES still available from Timber Press (second printing).
Janis

[Janis Ruksans]

Thank you, exactly the information that I needed.  Are the leaves still green on cvijicii when the pod matures?  Mine are still very green, although the pods below ground are quite large.

Wait, wait, wait! Green leaves will build up not only new corm but seeds, too. So wait! See previous entry.
Janis

[Paul T]

Janis,

I certainly would never do anything to the green leaves, rest assured.  I realise that they are feeding both the corm and the developing seeds.  What I was surprised by was how big the seedpods already are, yet the leaves are all still very green.  It's great, as it means that everything is still producing food so well, but I was asking about whether the seedpods open while the leaves are still green in case I needed to watch more closely now.  Otherwise, I'll be watching the leaves for them to start dying off before I expect the seed to actually be ripe.  In all the others I harvested seed from the leaves were in the process of dying off, or had already done so.  Only one other had pods as large as the cvijicii, and that was the mathewii.  It had it's leaves dying off already, so the size of the cvijicii pods was a surprise as it still seemed to be growing fairly strongly.

As I said, all this is new to me as I haven't had many seed on my crocus before, other than tommasinianus which always sets seed happily in the garden here.

Thanks again everyone for your help.  I'm slowly learning. 

[Lesley Cox]

Good to see you appreciate your greens Paul.

[Paul T]

Lesley,

Actually, I do.  I just love spinach.  Mmmm Mmm!! 

[Lesley Cox]

Me too, especially in a salad or just thrown into a stir fry at the last moment before serving. I rarely cook it. Oh darn, I seem to be straying into the Cooks' Corner again.

[Paul T]

I promised pics of the cvijicii pods I think, so here is a pic of the pod unearthed, and what it looked like "above ground" at the time (i.e just the green leaves).

Enjoy.

Please click on the pic for a larger version.

[Ragged Robin]

Paul, thanks so much for posting the pod - never seen it before, it's amazing, does it come above the ground when ripe to disperse its seeds?