Nivalis with petticoat!

[zephirine]

Hello dear galanthophiles...
A friend of mine, who lives in Lorraine (France) discovered this spring that many of her G. nivalis had developed a second row of inner segments, longer than the "normal ones",  like in the picture attached.
Please follow the link for more pictures, and a text (in french, sorry! ) about them :
nivalis with petticoat
Have you ever met such a snowdrop? Does it have a specific name?

[Brian Ellis]

Well what a coincidence, we were visiting friends in North Norfolk and were shown one snowdrop showing exactly the same tendency amongst a clump which were 'normal'.  I like the term nivalis with petticoat

[zephirine]

  Thank you Brian.
Many of her snowdrops show such a "petticoat" in her garden. She doesn't know whether this feature was present in the previous years or not (she seldom looks under the skirts of her flowers, you know... )
Do you think it could be linked to specific soil/weather conditions? Or could it be a stable feature???

[Brian Ellis]

I would suspect that it may be linked to the weather conditions we have had in the last couple of years, though I do not know.  This snowdrop was in a clump in a garden that opens for the National Garden Scheme too, the owners are always gardening and looking at their snowdrops and it is the first time they have spotted this.  It would be nice to think that it is a stable feature, but like finding four petalled snowdrops the only thing to do is to mark them and separate them from the rest later in the season then just be patient and watch them in future years.

[zephirine]

I thought ingenuously that Galanthus were males! Do you mean that they could still become fashion victims? 

[Brian Ellis]

I thought ingenuously that Galanthus were males! Do you mean that they could still become fashion victims? 

That made me smile, but we always speak of a bit of sunshine helping them to lift their skirts so I had always assumed they were females or cross dressers

[Alan_b]

the only thing to do is to mark them and separate them from the rest later in the season

Or indeed do it now whilst it is completely unambiguous which flowers show this feature.  There is a a bit more risk involved in digging up the snowdrops now but it sounds as if your friend has plenty of them.

then just be patient and watch them in future years.

Even a snowdrop with a weak tendency to produce petticoats (i.e. say one year in four on average) would still be an intersting curiosity which I would be happy to grow in my garden. 

[zephirine]

That made me smile, but we always speak of a bit of sunshine helping them to lift their skirts so I had always assumed they were females or cross dressers

Any scottish opinion in the audience?

Even a snowdrop with a weak tendency to produce petticoats (i.e. say one year in four on average) would still be an interesting curiosity which I would be happy to grow in my garden.

Well, my friend just clarified that she had already seen these petticoats last year, in fact! So it seems that the tendancy could be more than "weak", there...and there is a possibility that this form is stable! All the more considering the number of them in her garden! (seedlings with inherited petticoat?)
Her soil is fairly acidic, while mine is more or less alkaline. She will send me one of the Petticoat nivalis in the coming weeks, and I'll try it here to see if the petticoat comes back next year... interesting indeed!
Thank you all (from my friend and me) for your input!

[Alan_b]

Well, my friend just clarified that she had already seen these petticoats last year, in fact! So it seems that the tendancy could be more than "weak", there...and there is a possibility that this form is stable!

Yes, but not necessarily.  For example, in 2003 I acquired 5 snowdrops of a particular type, all probably the same clone.  Now I have around 100 of these.  Each year, several of these will produce two flowers on the same scape but it's not the same bulb each year.  So  although each year (say) 5% of all the flower stalks will be double headed, that is because each individual bulb has a 5% chance of doing this.  A 5% chance would be a (very) 'weak tendency'.

Even so, I don't think this type of flowering behaviour has ever been recorded before in snowdrops so it is very interesting.  Tell your friend you need a few of them in order to gather more accurate statistics on stability.

[Bronwyn Parrott]

I would be delighted to grow one in my garden here in Bristol if you would like me to report back over the next couple of years.
Bronwyn

[Alan_b]

Me too, but as I also have alkaline soil, I could not think of anything I could offer that Zephirine does not already have.

[Maggi Young]

Dear Zephirine,
Of course, we Scots always have an opinion on EVERYTHING!

The petticoats of this 'drop are rather pretty and at first I thought that this was a very strange happening- then I gave some thought to the kinds of extra parts that sometimes appear in double 'drops.  In those there are occasionally longer pieces, usually only one or two, which would, I think, be quite close to the petticoat segments if the double flower were to be dissected out to show the longer segments more clearly.
I'll have to have a look around  later to see if I can find a photo to clearly explain what I mean.

 If these longer segments are indeed similar to the petticoat segments, then I would think it is more likely that such "extras" might be a widespread  genetic possibility and so stand a good chance of being, or becoming, stable.

(as to whether any of these flowers might be cross-dressers: I have no idea!  )

[KentGardener]

What a fun drop - I always have a soft spot for ones that choose to differ from the norm.   

[zephirine]

Thank you for your suggestions, Alan, Bronwyn and John! I will transmit them to my friend, though I think she will prefer to test them locally first, not to give experts like you an embarassing false joy... and a simple nivalis in the end! 
She says she found them all in the ditches, along the roads around her home (in a fairly wooded area at the foot of the Vosges mountains), and transplanted them every other year in her garden.
She went back to the places where they came from these days, but didn't see any petticoats there.
Thank you dear Maggi for your interesting comparison with doubles! I'd really like to see an example of what you mean (I don't have any doubles here, I definitely prefer simple ones!)
For comparison purposes, here is a - hum - "anatomic" view  of the petticoat.

[Alan_b]

I think she will prefer to test them locally first, not to give experts like you an embarassing false joy...

My collection is littered with 'one-year-only' snowdrops and 'once-in-a-blue-moon' snowdrops that were looking very interesting the year I found them but have never (or only very rarely) done the same thing since.  So I have become very used to false joy.

The anatomic view is really interesting and makes the snowdrop look even more fascinating and unusual.