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Author Topic: Trough making  (Read 27273 times)

Peppa

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Re: Trough making
« Reply #30 on: July 02, 2018, 03:25:11 AM »
Kelly, the Northwestern chapter of the North American Rock Garden Society will have a free Styrotroff (StyrofoamTrough) Making demonstration at the Bellevue Botanical Garden on Thursday, July 12 from 7:30 pm. You are very welcome to come by!

https://www.nargsnw.org/single-post/2018/06/26/Styrotroff-StyrofoamTrough-Making-Workshop-by-Dale-Greer
Peppa

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where summer is mild and dry
but winter is dark and very wet...
USDA Zone 7b or 8 (depends on the year)
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bibliofloris

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Re: Trough making
« Reply #31 on: July 02, 2018, 04:50:45 AM »
Kelly, the Northwestern chapter of the North American Rock Garden Society will have a free Styrotroff (StyrofoamTrough) Making demonstration at the Bellevue Botanical Garden on Thursday, July 12 from 7:30 pm. You are very welcome to come by!

https://www.nargsnw.org/single-post/2018/06/26/Styrotroff-StyrofoamTrough-Making-Workshop-by-Dale-Greer

Wow!  Thanks for letting me know, Peppa — I’ll see if I can make it!
—Kelly
Kelly Jones
near Seattle, Washington state, USA (US zone 8b)

Peppa

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Re: Trough making
« Reply #32 on: July 02, 2018, 05:35:58 AM »
Hope to see you there, Kelly! :)
Peppa

From the beautiful Pacific Northwest, USA,
where summer is mild and dry
but winter is dark and very wet...
USDA Zone 7b or 8 (depends on the year)
http://seattlepuppy.blog82.fc2.com

FiestaRed

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Re: Trough making
« Reply #33 on: August 23, 2018, 10:13:46 AM »
Thanks to Maggi, I found the links to Jan Tholhuijsen's styrofoam trough making downloads.

Can I ask and apologies as I'm sure this must have been asked before, what "ingredients" do UK based members use for Jan's "porridge mix", the one he coats the Styrofoam with after roughing the surface and what are the "ingredients" he uses in the mix to soak and coat the tea towels with.

It's my first attempt and I'm going for a smallish trough to start off with but I'd like to make as good a job of it as I can. Any help or advice would be most welcome.
« Last Edit: August 23, 2018, 10:49:22 AM by FiestaRed »

Maggi Young

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Re: Trough making
« Reply #34 on: August 23, 2018, 10:48:19 AM »
The bags of ready-mix cement are readily available in UK DIY stores, usually in 25kg  bags. These are the same type   Ian Young  uses for his cement covered  polystyrene troughs.
 To make  Jan's "porridge, we would  make the  cement mix more  sloppy  than usual - to allow for it soaking well into the cloths - and perhaps add some extra sand  to make a rougher texture.
Margaret Young in Aberdeen, North East Scotland Zone 7 -ish!

Editor: International Rock Gardener e-magazine

FiestaRed

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Re: Trough making
« Reply #35 on: August 23, 2018, 12:55:23 PM »
Thanks for that Maggi, I really appreciate the help.

I had a quick look on the websites of the big DIY warehouses at sand and cement and there are so many different types. I'm not really used to ordering building materials and got a bit lost and unsure of what I needed to go out and buy. I'm OK with the Styrofoam as I use that quite often in my work as a photographer.

Maggi Young

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Re: Trough making
« Reply #36 on: August 23, 2018, 01:25:38 PM »
If you have a look in Ian's Bulb Logs about  making troughs, you'll find photos of the type of cement mix we use - I'll try and find it later for you if you can't locate it ....

Bulb Log Index : http://www.srgc.org.uk/bulblog/index.pdf
Margaret Young in Aberdeen, North East Scotland Zone 7 -ish!

Editor: International Rock Gardener e-magazine

FiestaRed

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Re: Trough making
« Reply #37 on: August 23, 2018, 04:10:05 PM »
Thanks Maggi, I'll try and find it.

Maggi Young

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Re: Trough making
« Reply #38 on: August 23, 2018, 04:41:47 PM »
http://www.srgc.org.uk/bulblog/log2008/020108/log.html  and http://www.srgc.org.uk/bulblog/log2008/170908/log.htmlgive you  details -  but  to do what Jan does with the "porridge"  you need to make the mix wetter.

 See here for landscaping a trough : http://www.srgc.org.uk/bulblog/log2008/081008/log.html

 A reminder of  Jan's trough making  projects ...
https://issuu.com/jantholhuijsen/docs/troughs_in_the_rock_garden_e9e6ec6d2f7950
« Last Edit: August 23, 2018, 04:44:43 PM by Maggi Young »
Margaret Young in Aberdeen, North East Scotland Zone 7 -ish!

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FiestaRed

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Re: Trough making
« Reply #39 on: August 23, 2018, 05:09:30 PM »
Thanks for all the help Maggi, really appreciated.

Jan Tholhuijsen

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Re: Trough making
« Reply #40 on: August 24, 2018, 06:53:12 AM »
Thanks for that Maggi, I really appreciate the help.

I had a quick look on the websites of the big DIY warehouses at sand and cement and there are so many different types. I'm not really used to ordering building materials and got a bit lost and unsure of what I needed to go out and buy. I'm OK with the Styrofoam as I use that quite often in my work as a photographer.

Good morning, Maggi and 'FiestaRed',

I hope it does not matter that I am also in the discussion.
In short what you should pay attention to.

Use only extruded polystyrene, or XPS. this is the strongest.(5 cm )
First make a bottom plate and put the sidewalls on it. This is stronger for the bearing capacity, when the trough is off the ground, on an elevation.
Use good outdoor mounting kit.
Coat the trough with a pure cement paste, this is good for the adhesion of the cloths soaked in cement.
Make porridge from pure cement, and soak the (tea) cloths. Start at an angle, so you make the corners stronger. Mind you, the (tea) cloths are the weaponry for the trough. Certainly in the winter with frost, pressure can come on.

So in this case you need a bag of Portland cement. (If you have cement left over, keep it in an airtight garbage bag or in sealed buckets so that it can not get damp air, otherwise it will harden.

When the trough is ready, you can smear the outside with a porridge of 1/3 cement, 1/3 peat and 1/3 crushed sand. This is to make the outside texture a bit coarse.

Here again the complete instruction, you can download in PDF.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B8wSWiwm_WABZ29ub1cwWmRzNEU/view?usp=sharing

Small movie 

Good luck.

622467-0

622469-1

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FiestaRed

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Re: Trough making
« Reply #41 on: August 24, 2018, 08:58:04 AM »
Thanks to both Maggi and Jan for all their help and advice, it's been a big help. Jan, thanks also for the email replies and of course you are most welcome to be a part of this post and really welcome to pass on your knowledge. I'm sure there will be others interested like me who have little or no idea how to make troughs using your method.

The polystyrene I have seen at my local branch of Wickes: https://www.wickes.co.uk/Kay-Metzeler-General-Purpose-Polystyrene-EPS70---2400mm-x-1200mm-x-50mm/p/210824#tab-details_content

Thanks to all Jan's help, the only other question I have is do I let the cement mix set between the different stages? Apply the porridge to the bare polystyrene and let it set, apply the cloths and let them set and then finally add the cement, peat and sand mixture.

Jan Tholhuijsen

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Re: Trough making
« Reply #42 on: August 24, 2018, 09:52:57 AM »
Thanks to both Maggi and Jan for all their help and advice, it's been a big help. Jan, thanks also for the email replies and of course you are most welcome to be a part of this post and really welcome to pass on your knowledge. I'm sure there will be others interested like me who have little or no idea how to make troughs using your method.

The polystyrene I have seen at my local branch of Wickes: https://www.wickes.co.uk/Kay-Metzeler-General-Purpose-Polystyrene-EPS70---2400mm-x-1200mm-x-50mm/p/210824#tab-details_content 



Thanks to all Jan's help, the only other question I have is do I let the cement mix set between the different stages? Apply the porridge to the bare polystyrene and let it set, apply the cloths and let them set and then finally add the cement, peat and sand mixture.

Miki, the link to Wickes is from EPS, this is not so strong you have to have XPS. look here.  http://www.soprema.co.uk/en/article/dossier-thematique/what-is-the-difference-between-xps-and-eps-insulation

Polystyrene EPS70 - 2400mm x 1200mm x 50mm

Make everything rough with wire brush.
Make a porridge of pure cement and water so that you can apply it with a large brush. Let it dry overnight.
Make a porridge of (portland) cement again and soak the cloth so that it is saturated. If the cloth is soaked in it, it must retract well otherwise the porridge, too much as pasta.
Let it dry for one or two days and then you can edit the outside with the cement peat and crushed sand
« Last Edit: August 24, 2018, 09:55:35 AM by Jan Tholhuijsen »
You are never to old to learn.

FiestaRed

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Re: Trough making
« Reply #43 on: August 24, 2018, 12:06:45 PM »
Thanks again for the help and advice Jan.

I have to admit I wasn't even aware that there were different types of polystyrene available. I'll take another look around to see what I can find.

FiestaRed

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Re: Trough making
« Reply #44 on: August 28, 2018, 03:01:05 PM »
Miki, the link to Wickes is from EPS, this is not so strong you have to have XPS. look here.  http://www.soprema.co.uk/en/article/dossier-thematique/what-is-the-difference-between-xps-and-eps-insulation

Polystyrene EPS70 - 2400mm x 1200mm x 50mm


Hi Jan, after a few days searching locally for the Extruded Polystyrene, I can't find it anywhere and to buy online with the added delivery costs makes it quite expensive. Is it worth trying to make a trough with the locally sourced Expanded Polystyrene or would it break down to quickly?

 


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