Pulsatilla 2013

[Susann]

. Do anybody know of a seed source?
http://www.plantarium.ru/page/view/item/30892.html

I could send you a few seeds, wild collected last year. Please send me your adress. ( You are in great luck that I am such a lazy person, I received them over a week ago.)

Do you use Google translate?  I went to Natalia's links and they were automatically translated.

I did not open the Plantarium link as I already use teh website, but the other link came in pure Russian. Interesting letters, but very difficult to read, especially when you do not speak Russian! Interesting that you got it translated. That means that there is-as usual- a to me unknown button to press to get sites automatically translated?

[Hoy]

Natalia, I didn't see it when I visited the area Maybe I was too late in the season? (Mid July). We stayed in Cheget/Чегет and had many trips in the surrounding mountains (also to the summit of Elbrus). We did see a lot of plants and a very nice scenery!

Thank you Susann, I'll PM you

[Hoy]

Susann, if you use Google Chrome you always have the option to choose on the top of the page!

[Olga Bondareva]

Hoy, it is not seed source. It is a community of professional botanists. Images are made mostly in nature. No seeds available.

Susann I can see only yours pictures of P. dahurica. They looks true, leaves and flowers. As for involucrating leaves I need to look first at some papers to check.

[Olga Bondareva]

Natalia, I didn't see it when I visited the area Maybe I was too late in the season? (Mid July). We stayed in Cheget/Чегет and had many trips in the surrounding mountains (also to the summit of Elbrus). We did see a lot of plants and a very nice scenery!

Pulsatilla aurea is not common Hoy. It is rare. You need to know the point exactly to find it.

[Natalia]

Trond, you were from the East from Elbrus, and Dombai - to the west.

[Hoy]

Thanks Olga. I was aware it wasn't a commercial site but I hoped somebody had seeds anyway! You'll never know! Although it is rare you sometimes has luck and stumble upon interesting things. Our guide wasn't a plantsman and we didn't actually look for plants either.

Sooner or later I have to go back but it is a big big world and life is short

Natalia, next time I'll visit other places too!

[Natalia]

Susann, as it is difficult to you to read in Russian, pay attention, here Pulsatilla dahurica photo from the southern part of its distribution in our country -
http://www.plantarium.ru/page/image/id/171052.html
and here plants from northern part of an area - http://www.plantarium.ru/page/image/id/73341.html

And to a question of an origin - my Pulsatilla dahurica from vicinities of Komsomolsk-on-Amur.

[Susann]

Susann, if you use Google Chrome you always have the option to choose on the top of the page!

I am sorry but I still use Firefox. But, happy surprise, I have found the magic way to get a site translated! This will make things much easier in the future. Thank you for mentioning it.

[Hoy]

I use Google Chrome, Firefox and Safari and change between them necessary.

[Olga Bondareva]

Trond, it's much easier to find P. aurea seeds in Europe than in Russia. And it's a hard germinator and grower.

[Armin]

And also the photo from a site the nature of Baikal, defined by biologist Nadezhda Stepantsova, it is the expert on Siberian Pulsatilla.
http://nature.baikal.ru/phs/ph.shtml?id=63851&ref=phs/plant

Natalia,
thanks for the link. It's not only the pulsatillas but also the endemic Golomjanka / oil fishes (Comephorus sp.) of lake baikal which fascinate me!

[Susann]

  leaf of your Pulsatilla is rather similar to the sheet Pulsatilla cernua.

Yes Natalia, I remember you posted links to the drawings of Flora of Russia. And I do agree with you that the leaves on the full plant image I posted is atypical to the leave drawing. But still, I am sorry to say I do not completely agree with you. I think there are so many more details to consider. My plants are for example quite big, almost as big as P chinensis. P cernua is, as you know, much smaller, and it does not show fully developed leaves when flowering, as do P dahurica. If you check for example Flora of Russia, Flora of China or Flora plantorum herbacearum chinae boreali-orientalis (III) you will find that they all state the same about this. Hopefully it is possible to put a small reliance to it? ( Aichele deals a lot with the differences in his comprehensive taxonomic work if someone is interesting in reading an extensive text about the species)

I will add a photo of some of the seeds of the particular collection. Although the seeds are completely dry and the image is made smaller for being able to post it, I hope it is seen that they are not only longer than the ones of P cernua, they are also, despite being dry, still very hairy; typical to P dahurica.

But of course, it might have been a busy bee doing what it is not supposed to. But for now, I think I will stick to believing my plants are P dahurica. At least until someone succeed to convince me I am wrong. ( The latter is not very unusual)

[Natalia]

Susann, and I agree with you - seeds at your copy typical for P.dahurica - long, thin and shaggy. In disputes round definition of types of a Pulsatilla me one question interests: whether there can be a hybrid a plant described by scientists as a pure species.
That is - the Chinese sources describe one type of a leaf, but our botanists - another.  According to photos Plantarium  it is possible to see that on flowers the look precisely varies depending on a growth place... Very often at least one more type оther Pulsatilla grows in habitats of   P.dahurica or nearby (in flight of an insect).. In this case hybridization is possible is we see in our gardens. So whom to consider by the REAL type of a Pulsatilla dahurica (and other Pulsatilla)?

 I incline to opinion that plants a Pulsatilla the most different from close growing specie and is a pure species of a plant(I don't mention other characteristics species of a plant).

I'm afraid I can not exactly explain my point of view  - my English is very bad.

[Tim Ingram]

This is a fascinating discussion for someone like me who doesn't know many of these plants well (or at all!). It would be very interesting to know both the variation of plants within an area, and the variation that arises when seed is sown from different species. From the pictures shown of a number of species there does seem to be a lot of variation in flower colour and other aspects of the plants (which I suppose could be the result of hybridisation, or under a different interpretation just natural variation within a species). What is particularly exciting for me is to see so much information about these plants - individual botanists are always likely to have their own interpretations. For the gardener there are some wonderful plants amongst them - I have grown P. aurea from Czech seed, but never managed to grow them on to flowering; what a glorious plant!

Natalia - your English is so much better than nearly every else's Russian! (on the Forum).