Cypripedium 2012

[Stephen Vella]

I need some advice on a potting mix for C macranthos,I've grown them in a perlite/sandy with 10% bark fines and recently added seramis but the mix seems to dry out too fast and seems to repel the water.The growth is not vigorou, they get 1/4 strengh inorganic ferts..any ideas to improve the water holding capacity?
Also can cyps handle more organics to a mix or use a loam?
And with organics in a potting mix would fertilizing be detrimental to cyps or benificial?
I've had these for 7 yrs from flask and still no flowers..can somebody help
Cheers

[Peter Maguire]

But grow in a very draining substrate (3 parts pozzolana to 1 part loam)

That mixture looks to be very wet to me and not very free draining.
I had to look pozzolana up on the internet - it comes up as a type of volcanic cement used by the Romans  . It seems to break down to a sandy material, so if you are using it as a substiute for pumice, I don't think that it would work. The pictures seem to show rot at the neck of the plant, frost would not help either (I brought all my Cypripediums back into the greenhouse last week because frost was forecast).
Sorry to bring bad news, but I would repot the rhizome in something (anything) that will drain more freely, dust with sulphur powder as an anti-fungal agent and hope something survives. 

[Peter Maguire]

I need some advice on a potting mix for C macranthos,I've grown them in a perlite/sandy with 10% bark fines and recently added seramis but the mix seems to dry out too fast and seems to repel the water.The growth is not vigorou, they get 1/4 strengh inorganic ferts..any ideas to improve the water holding capacity?
Also can cyps handle more organics to a mix or use a loam?
And with organics in a potting mix would fertilizing be detrimental to cyps or benificial?
I've had these for 7 yrs from flask and still no flowers..can somebody help

Stephen,
If it were me, I wouldn't bother with the sand, just use perlite & seramis, and increase the organic content to 30% - I use leafmould. Having said that, I also grow my Cyps in plastic pots, water twice a day for ten minutes during the summer (it's on an automatic system), and aim to feed with inorganic fertilizer (1/4-1/2 strength) ever 2-3 weeks. If you use this high an organic content, the plants need repotting every year as the organic component compacts down annually and makes the mixture too water-retentive. If you are not using large perlite (I'm using 3-5mm pumice insread), perhaps bark of a similar size would open up the mixture to a similar degree)
7 years doesn't sound too bad for deflasked seedlings, although I'm only 3 years into the process with some farreri x reginae hybrids (so far, so good). I was expecting to wait another 3-4 years to see what the flowers looked like. I've been increasing the organic (leafmould) content annually, up to about 20%, as i found that if the mixture was too water retentive, the seedlings tended to rot. (I lost all of my first two batches that way)

[monocotman]

Stephen,
sorry to hear of your problems with macranthos,
but I'd be very careful with adding any more organics to the medium.
I've heard some horror stories concerning macranthos and organics.
You probably need to talk to Jeff H. about this, he has plenty of experience with this species.
I grow mine in pretty much 100% super coarse perlite in big pots and they do OK and increase gently,
but my climate is probably quite a bit cooler than yours,
Regards,
David

[Sarmienta]

I think macranthos is not a difficult one, I use 1part of regular garden soil.and 1 part  bimskies (pumice )added with some loam pellets.
In spring ,i give some leafmould  on top as a fertilizer.

Last year (Autumn ) i had split my clump, and now i see there are less flowerbuds!
Still they are very soon this year ,even C calceolus,in which i can feel allready an  flower bud

[Maren]

Christian,

I'm sorry to see what's happened to your C. Emil.  I can only agree with previous writers: the compost looks too wet. Now if that pot froze and then rapidly defrosted with the warmth of the morning sun, then the root area would have suffered.

What to suggest next: plant it in a mineral substrate and stand the pot in a north facing position. But I don't hold out much hope. Sorry.

[Stephen Vella]

Hi Peter and Sarmienta, thanks for the info.having to water twice a day would be a too much work.adding organics seems to be the way to increase water holding capacity it's a gamble I thought seramis would do that some people hate the stuff and some think it's the best thing since sliced bread!Sarmienta adding garden soil or loam would be all new to me and i can only think it would hold water better,do you sink your pots in the garden? Mine are sunken in gravel which are in foam boxes.
Anyone else with good reports with using loam based mixes? Or am I better off to plant some in the garden?

[Maren]

Hi,

mine grow in pure Seramis or, lately, Seramis mixed with pumice (3-5mm), 1:1, because it's cheaper. Both mixtures do extremely well and I have no winter losses.

But, as we all know, substrate on its own is no guarantee of success. I try to look at this from the plant's point of view. What does it require? Moisture but no extremes of wet or dry. To maintain this one has to take certain measures:

In the summer, water plants when they need it, no more and no less.
     When do they need it? once a day, twice a day, every Thursday? No, they need to be watered when the compost begins to dry out. This depends on many factors: temperature, growth rate, size of pot (the bigger the pot, the more moisture it will hold), type of substrate, position (exposure to sun or wind) etc.
     How do I know when the compost is drying out? By lifting up the pot. If it's heavy, it's wet and does not need water. If it's light, it needs water. If you have a bank of 50 pots, you don't need to lift them all up. If you treat them all the same, they should be in pretty much the same condition. A little sampling will confirm this.

In the winter, protect from excessive wet. To do this, a sharp draining compost is helpful. In addition, put some kind of protection from rain over the top. This can be a cloche or even a sheet of glass or plastic.

I have found over the years that one gains a lot of understanding by simply observing one's plants, the more one looks the more one sees.

[Maggi Young]

But, as we all know, substrate on its own is no guarantee of success. I try to look at this from the plant's point of view. What does it require? Moisture but no extremes of wet or dry. To maintain this one has to take certain measures:

In the summer, water plants when they need it, no more and no less.
     When do they need it? once a day, twice a day, every Thursday? No, they need to be watered when the compost begins to dry out. This depends on many factors: temperature, growth rate, size of pot (the bigger the pot, the more moisture it will hold), type of substrate, position (exposure to sun or wind) etc.
     How do I know when the compost is drying out? By lifting up the pot. If it's heavy, it's wet and does not need water. If it's light, it needs water. If you have a bank of 50 pots, you don't need to lift them all up. If you treat them all the same, they should be in pretty much the same condition. A little sampling will confirm this.

In the winter, protect from excessive wet. To do this, a sharp draining compost is helpful. In addition, put some kind of protection from rain over the top. This can be a cloche or even a sheet of glass or plastic.

I have found over the years that one gains a lot of understanding by simply observing one's plants, the more one looks the more one sees.

 Sensible advice for any plants, Maren and a good philosophy... more can be learned by simple observation than people generally seem to realise.

[Jeff Hutchings]

The debate on cypripedium mixes will go on for ever. When I started there was limited information available so I have been through the loam/sand/organic mix (not for north Lancashire); then onto a Seramis based compost which did not work for me at all and I found severe root damage by year two. Fortunately, I visited Peter Corkhill about five years ago and changed over to a mix of pumice, coarse perlite, cornish grit and about 15% composted bark/leafmold. This has worked reasonably well although I think there are certain species that want little in the way of organics.

The effect of one mix on different species is clearly seen in the Dutch plants now on offer. Parville is c parviflorum parviflorum and I have found a number of plant with limited root systems whilst Pueblo is parviflorum pubescens which loves the sand/organic mix. When this mix gets wet it holds a lot of moisture and has limited aeration.

C macranthos I have never found easy up here. If I get any more stock I think I will use a mix with no more than 10% organic. The big problem is in the summer when the pots are too warm and regular misting makes the compost too wet. It most certainly does not grow in a Lancashire garden as I have a customer with 40 plus in the garden and has lost macranthos three times.

A key issue is also winter temperature. 2011 temperatures of minus 18 were great. I had 250 c reginae in plastic bags in a polystyrene box for three months and they all flowered. As Peter indicated when they start to grow frost is a different matter. Recent frost winds browned the newly emerging flower buds of Lady Dorine. I should have known better as it is fasciolatum x formosanum.

Looking at the Emil photo reminds me of my brilliant idea two years ago of topping the pots with course bark so they looked better on the sales table. Because my automatic watering system was set to water every 6 hours for 2 minutes the bark got wet and suddenly I found stems falling over. If only the bud has rotted at the neck then the rhizome may well develop new buds which will take it through to next year.

Heat is certainly the killer. I look at some old photos of pots with 30/40 flowers at the Harrogate Spring show a few years back. spring was late so they were put into my conservatory for the last week to ensure I had sufficient plants for my display. I learnt two things, forced flowers are lighter in colour and the whole process was so stressful that the following year my 10 ltr pot fulls would fit into a two ltr pot as the summer regrowth of the rhizome and roots did not happen.

I hope my ramblings have given food for thought.

Jeff

[Tony Willis]

Jeff
being just down the road from you this is very helpful. I use a mix of 90% seramis and 10% bark compost but still have a problem with excess water. It has rained for the last 24 hours and is still pouring down as I type.

I find the organic stuff in the mix rises to the top of the pot over the year and forms a wet layer against the crowns. Annual re-potting is essential and I do this at the same time as Peter when they are just into growth.

[monocotman]

Tony,

I find that repotting generally checks cyp growth and results in smaller growths for at least a year, sometimes two.
What is your view?
Maybe repotting at the start of growth is less of a problem than late October when I usually do mine.
I find that with 90% super coarse perlite plus 10% bark mix I can leave them for several years before repotting.
Some plants have gone 5 years.
It is especially beneficial for young seedlings,

Regards,

David

[angie]

Jeff your rambling on as you call it is very informative. As I am new to keeping Cypripediums I like hearing what works for others. I think I have mine in to much loam so when I pot up I will change the mixture. I shall source some Coarse perlite as trying to get the right size of pumice isn't easy.
I hope that mine survive and bulk up.

Angie 

[Stephen Vella]

Maren yes I do observe and sometimes I look too much for the perfect mix and there are so many variables, temps, organic or not and how much water(which i think i dont do enough of) but one observation I did notice that early spring watering is soooo beneficial.we had a dry spring but a very wet summer and most of my cyps went dormant early but c kentuckiensis, formosanum and reginae stayed in leaf as we recieved rain for 2 months in summer and it was a cool summer. I grow some of my cyps sunken in foam boxes with gravel to keep roots cool and some on the ground, these cyps had their roots growing out of thier pots and growing through the humus layer so it makes me think that a top dress of humus on top would be benificial, some growers recommend this or top with coco fibre, Im sure Peter corkhill mentions this with a sand/perlite 10% bark mix for Asian sp.American sp prefer growing in the sand \bark mixes.
Angie your hybrids being more hardy will grow in a more organic mix as long as its free draining.Are these not Anthony's cyps and what ever his was doing you should keep doing but I think his reliable rainfall worked for his mix which was very free draining for me. It's the species that are more fussy and we all hope for more bulking up and more flowers.
Svante a cyp nursery grower in Sweden, breeds and grows cyps from the lab to the garden swears by growing in 100% soil from his local woodland in pots with great success!! And his very against growing in 100% perlite (check out his web site) so the debate goes on.
Hearing succes stories and failures is all helpfull. Keep posting
Cheers

[monocotman]

All,

good to hear everybody's views around composts. 
I think the phrase ' no size fits all' is suitable.
It certainly helps to find out what works and what doesn't for different people in different environments.
I grow my plants 10 miles east of Cambridge in what is officially classified as semi-arid ( I kid you not) East Anglia.
(It is quite a change this week to be back in the more 'normal' cool April weather of sunshine and showers. First time since 2009)
Under these dry conditions I could probably get away with a more organic mix than I currently use.
However I'm used to it, it works for me and I'm very happy with the plant growth and flowering.

Angie - I buy my super coarse perlite from a local old fashioned horticultural supply shop.
It comes in 100 litre bags and retails for about £18.
That is a pretty competitive price and fills an awful lot of pots,

Regards,

David