Allium 2010

[fermi de Sousa]

In your photo, is it growing among a grass or sedge species, and a dianthus?

Yes, it's being smothered by a spreading clump of Dianthus "Allwoodii type hybrid" - which has obviously not been dead-headed! Also the dead allium foliage from last season is still in situ.
It does seed it self around a little but not excessively - I think ordinary chives or garlic chives do so more than this one.
Someone told me that it's unlikely that we'll get any other alliums onto the "allowed" list as AQIS/Biosecurity has decided the genus is too risky as at least two are noxious weeds already. So this will exclude a lot of the newly discovered or re-named species
cheers
fermi

[Stephenb]

Any suggestions for this one?

[TheOnionMan]

Any suggestions for this one?

Looks like a white form of Allium saxatile to me.  The long slender bulbs with orangish bulb coat is diagnostic.

[Stephenb]

Thanks - it actually had a Allium saxatile label by it, but I was having doubts, so it sounds as though it was correct after all!!

[Janis Ruksans]

Mark, thanks for sharing with us your knowledge and pictures of alliums.
This is what I found in a book published by Moscow agricultural academy about A.stipitatum & altissimum. Hope it will help.
"Bulbs of A.stipitatum are flattish round with a less prominent "nose" than that of A.aflatunense,100-200 gramms, yellow or dark yellow. The tunic is greyish white.The bulbs are divided into 2 or more parts unequal in size as a rule. The bulb forms 2-3 bulblets 0.8-2.0 centimeters in diameter joint to the mother bulb by stolons of different length.
Adult bulbs of A.altissimum are divided into 3-4 parts of an uneven shape and form a lot of bulblets thus A.altissimum grows in groups in nature. Weight of a separate bulb is 25-40 gramms. The top of the bulb is without a "nose".The bulbils seeking space can be at the upper part of the mother bulb. The bulbs are from light to dark yellow. .... A.altissimum has the narrowest and longest leaves in the group."

A. aflatunense has very prominent "nose" and usually splits in two, rarely 3 replacemant bulbs. Stipitatum really is flattish and maks bulblets, very rarely splitting, but I didn't note any stolons. New bulbils are strongly attached between covering sheets of mother bulb. About my altissimum - never had specimens that could be verified without doubt, only common feature of all my stocks of allium named as altissimum were short living in my nursery and I stopped looking for it.
Janis

[Janis Ruksans]

To follow-up, here are photos of Allium chelotum from Iran, grows to little over 1 meter, attractive ball of pink flowers.  Dr. Fritsch gave an "ok" on this one.  Growing right next to it are the shooting buds of what I had received as Allium altissimum, which Dr. Fritsch suggests looks more like Allium stipitatum.  It is a giant plant, growing to 6' (2 meters) and is the tallest species I've ever grown.  I like how the buds and stems are phototropic, following the sun around, which typically ends up in comical bends and twists at the top of the stems.

I bet you StephenB would want to make a salad out of those succulent Allium aff. stipitatum leaves seen in photo #3.
-- Message modified to show identification of the tall purple Allium as A. stipitatum, not A. altissimum. Renamed photos too --

A. chelotum certainly looks true.
Janis

[Janis Ruksans]

Side by side is Allium oreophilum cv. 'Agaliks Giant' selected by me from wild material collected during my second mountain trip to Central Asia at heights of Agalik river not far from Samarkand. It is tallest of oreophilums grown by me and planted side by side with 'Jeannine' makes very nice border. Picture is very old, for very long my stocks of both cultivars are very small, but I still well remember how beautiful they both were stayin in same bed side by side.
Janis 

One of my favorite forms of Allium oreophilum is one named A. oreophilum 'Torch', much better than the commonly available form.  I got mine from Pacific Rim Nursery at http://www.hillkeep.ca/bulbs%20allium%20i-z.htm
The nursery description says "Native to Central Asia, it was selected for its straight stalk by Antoine Hoog from the Jánis Rukšáns selection A. oreophilum 'Agalik'. This straight-stemmed version charms all who see it.  It is beautiful both in the rock garden and as a dinner-party centrepiece ."  You have collected many forms of this species, what can you tell us about 'Torch', is the information in the nursery description accurate?  In your book, I really like the dwarf selections you've made, such as 'Kursavli Curl'.

I uploaded two photos of A. oreophilum 'Torch' growing in my garden.  I find this selection to be strong, but slow growing, with fleshy, waxy blue-gray foliage, and intensely colored heads of bloom.  I've been scratching the seed into the soil around the parent plant, and lots of seedlings are coming up, no worries about hybrids as it is the only form I grow currently.

Thanks for sharing your photos and description of the Kara-Tau mountains.

I think that 'Torch' is identical with my 'Agalik's Giant', which I sent to Antoine many years ago.
Janis

[Stephenb]

Another one I'm unsure of from my garden. I got it as Allium guttatum ssp. sardoum. What does thou think? Notice the bulbil. The flowers never opened much more than this.

[TheOnionMan]

Another one I'm unsure of from my garden. I got it as Allium guttatum ssp. sardoum. What does thou think? Notice the bulbil. The flowers never opened much more than this.

Doesn't look right to me; not sure what it is, but I'm quite certain it is not A. guttatum ssp. sardoum.  I uploaded a few photos. I grew it from 2001 - 2007 but no longer have it and must replace it because it is a unique and worthwhile species.  Both ssp. sardoum and spp. dalmaticum are available from Pacific Rim Nursery:
http://www.hillkeep.ca/bulbs%20allium%20a-h.htm#Allium guttatum Steven subsp. sardoum

Once you've observed this plant it is fairly unmistakable, the tiny buds held out equally spaced, white with a dark mark, and the thin pedicels are bright white.  The ssp. dalmaticum looks the same, except with purplish flowers (but the same white pedicels).  Sorry about the poor quality of photographs, I used to borrow a mediocre digital camera back then.

[olegKon]

Janis,
What I quoted is the book by Jurjeva&kokoreva "Diversity of alliums and their use" 1992 ("Луки-анзуры" chapter).

[Janis Ruksans]

Janis,
What I quoted is the book by Jurjeva&kokoreva "Diversity of alliums and their use" 1992 ("Луки-анзуры" chapter).

Oleg,
My book-library of botanical books in Russian stopped renewing at 1990-91. May be you can send me link of "Izdatelstvo Nauka" for I can again start ordering of botanical literature in Russian?
Janis

[Stephenb]

Doesn't look right to me; not sure what it is, but I'm quite certain it is not A. guttatum ssp. sardoum. 

Here's another shot of my unknown Allium (obtained as A. guttatum ssp. sardoum) a couple of weeks later. Note the bulbil is mottled reddish. Help at all?

[TheOnionMan]

Here's another shot of my unknown Allium (obtained as A. guttatum ssp. sardoum) a couple of weeks later. Note the bulbil is mottled reddish. Help at all?

Stephen, Allium section Allium within the genus, is perhaps the hardest section of all.  I spend lots of time reading through Brian Mathew's excellent "A review of Allium section Allium" 1996, but these are a confusing lot to be sure.  Allium guttatum is within section Allium but the presence of bulbils suggests a different species, although even that can be unreliable, as we've both found bulbilliferous versions of many alliums not typically reported as bulbilliferous. 

It looks rather close to A. ampeloprasum, and incredibly variable species with a huge number of synonyms and varieties.  While most often photos show pinkish plants, Mathew says the flowers "are usually white or pinkish" and sometimes with a dark green median vein.  The leaves are distinctive (do you have a photo of the leaves), they are fairly wide and strongly keeled, but not fistulose.  Here are a couple photos that sort of resemble your plant:

http://www.botanic.co.il/english/research/Allium/Allium_ampeloprasum.jpg
http://davesgarden.com/guides/pf/showimage/74930/

The other possibility, the ID that I believe is most likely, is Allium affine.  Mathew reports "A. affine is undoubtedly related to A. guttatum".  The flowers are described as whitish with a green median vein.  This species is fairly unique in having long filiform bracteoles that are silvery white (although long lacinate silvery white bracteoles are also present in Allium ampeloprasum)... I believe I see some thready bracteoles in your photo.  This species also has channeled or keeled leaves, but much narrower and fistulose.  Here is a photo I found that closely resembles your plant:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/tmtht/3687163542/

Better keep an eye on this one, looks like one of the bulbils is on the move ready to start a new plant. 

[Stephenb]

Thanks for spending time on this, Mark! I'm pretty sure it's not ampeloprasum (I'll post pictures of the various cultivars that I grow afterwards) - the leaves are narrow, but more details will have to wait to spring. Your picture of affine definitely looks like my plant (a definite affinity  )

However, I discovered another picture 2 years previously which I'm pretty sure is the same plant (or from the same original group of seedlings) and bulbil-less:

 

[Stephenb]

Here are my ampeloprasum cultivars in flower (you can see the green median vein on some of them):

1) Elephant Garlic
2) and 3)  Allium ampeloprasum "Oerprei" (means "old onion") and is an old perennial leek-like form grown in Belgium for the leaves.
4) Allium ampeloprasum babingtonii (Babington's Leek) - found wild along the coasts of Southern England and the Channel Islands, presumably escaped from cultivation (from bulbils and flowers but is sterile).

and

5) A picture of the bulbs of (from L to R):  Sand Leek (from UK), Babington's Leek and Oerprei.