Spring bulbs of Parnassos & the Peloponnese, March-April 2010

[tonyg]

If I was young free and single ..... Oh and if I had a different job (Grand National Day is mid-trip!)
Just drooling and hoping you repeat the tour in about 10 years time ... I'll carry the bags!

[fermi de Sousa]

If I was young free and single ..... Oh and if I had a different job (Grand National Day is mid-trip!)

Gosh, you look a lot taller in your avatar, Tony!
 
cheers
fermi

[Margaret Thorne]

If I was young free and single ..... Oh and if I had a different job (Grand National Day is mid-trip!)
Just drooling and hoping you repeat the tour in about 10 years time ... I'll carry the bags!

OK, you youngster, we'll pencil  you in for 10 years' time, though David thinks we may not still be capable of running tours by then.
What do you think of the Crocus veluchensis pictures? Though the plants have the shape of C.veluchensis, they have more than a hint of yellow in the throat, so we thought they might have crossed with Crocus sieberi.

[tonyg]

If I was young free and single ..... Oh and if I had a different job (Grand National Day is mid-trip!)
Just drooling and hoping you repeat the tour in about 10 years time ... I'll carry the bags!

OK, you youngster, we'll pencil  you in for 10 years' time, though David thinks we may not still be capable of running tours by then.
What do you think of the Crocus veluchensis pictures? Though the plants have the shape of C.veluchensis, they have more than a hint of yellow in the throat, so we thought they might have crossed with Crocus sieberi.

Thanks, I'll be 12 months off my pension then!
Yes, I agree completely about the Crocus veluchensis.  The yellow in the throat is typical of hybrids with C sieberi.  Tony Willis has mentioned seeing them on Parnassos and there are similar plants in cultivation that hail from there.

[Tony Willis]

A wonderful series of pictures.

 As Tony G. says I have looked at many plants on Parnassus and have been unable to find any without a yellow throat which is indicative of sieberi and I have not found one that would seem to be veluchensis. They are clearly different from plants from farther north such as Olympus which are pure veluchensis. B. Mathew mentions the hybrids  on Parnassus in 'The Crocus'. I have a good number about to flower and will try and illustrate them on the crocus thread.

[Margaret Thorne]

Many thanks, Tony, for posting your photographs on the Crocus thread – I have admired these with great interest.
All the Crocuses which might have been sieberi x veluchensis crosses were found on Parnassos and we’ll have a good search round when we go this time to see if we can find any which have pure white throats. We’ve also decided to travel further north and look at Mounts Vardousia, Giona and Iti to see if we can find C.veluchensis there.
Have you ever found Crocus chrysanthus on Parnassos? Do you know if it occurs lower or earlier than Crocus olivieri?

Photographs: Crocus habitat on Mt Parnassos, Crocus sieberi (purple and white forms) with Crocus olivieri x 2, Crocus sieberi (purple and white forms), Crocus sieberi by snow x 2, Crocus sieberi & C.olivieri on Mt Chelmos

[Armin]

Margareth,
mouthwatering images.
I'm afraid can't join the tour.

[mark smyth]

I only found this thread. It's a really good series of photos. One day I'll visit there. Did you go by yourself or go on an organised trip?

[Maggi Young]

Mark, Margaret and David, stalwarts of the Edinburgh and Borders SRGC groups, are Tour leaders for the AGS.

[mark smyth]

Thanks.

[Tony Willis]

Margaret

when I visited Parnassus in 1987 with Mrs W in late March/early April  the Crocus chrysanthus were out in profusion on a hillside on the right of the road as it crosses the plateau outside of Arahova. I have been another half dozen times since always at the beginning of May and of course they are completely over by then.I have never seen them higher on Parnassus. I have not found oliveri in that area I have only visited the Giona area in autumn and so cannot comment on it in spring. The veluchensis I showed were from Mts. Ossa and Olympus. Checking some flowers to write this I see I have a crocus in flower from Parnassus without a yellow throat so possibly veluchensis. I have another out from Kymachalan in the North which I thought was veluchensis where it is supposed to occur but in fact has a yellow throat and so is presumably sieberi!Pictures will follow on the crocus thread.

[cohan]

Many thanks, Tony, for posting your photographs on the Crocus thread – I have admired these with great interest.
All the Crocuses which might have been sieberi x veluchensis crosses were found on Parnassos and we’ll have a good search round when we go this time to see if we can find any which have pure white throats. We’ve also decided to travel further north and look at Mounts Vardousia, Giona and Iti to see if we can find C.veluchensis there.
Have you ever found Crocus chrysanthus on Parnassos? Do you know if it occurs lower or earlier than Crocus olivieri?

Photographs: Crocus habitat on Mt Parnassos, Crocus sieberi (purple and white forms) with Crocus olivieri x 2, Crocus sieberi (purple and white forms), Crocus sieberi by snow x 2, Crocus sieberi & C.olivieri on Mt Chelmos

thanks for the habitat view--i can never get enough of that sort of information!
can you explain the dynamic of this site--trees above on both sides, but bare down the middle where it seems it would be wet enough for trees--is it kept in grass for pasture? or is the valley actually dry in summer and more moisture on the slopes?

[Tony Willis]

having had Cohan bring the habitat view to my attention it is interesting to see the Crocus sieberi there.

It looks just the place where I have found Crocus hadriaticus in flower in the autumn. I have never found sieberi/veluchensis in flower below the tree line in May,only on the higher more exposed slopes by the ski centre.

[Margaret Thorne]

Mark, Margaret and David, stalwarts of the Edinburgh and Borders SRGC groups, are Tour leaders for the AGS.

Thanks, Maggi, for the introduction and hello, Mark – we met at a Discussion Weekend and, as far as I can remember, we talked then about the pros and cons of visiting places independently and as part of an organised group.
All these photographs were taken while we were on a private trip. We recce all our AGS Tours by taking a cheap flight, hiring a car at the airport and finding accommodation on an ad hoc basis. This is a great way to explore new areas and find your own plant-rich places. The down side is that you can waste time visiting unproductive areas and looking for places to stay. So, in Europe, it takes us at least 4 weeks to research a 2 week Tour even though we spend a considerable time researching all our destinations before we go.
Going as part of an organised Tour is really good value, especially with SRGC and AGS. We cost all our Tours to break even, not to make a profit and all the research is done at the leaders’ own expense. So those who travel with us receive the benefit of many weeks’ research without it being reflected in the price of the Tour. For that reason alone it is worth going once with an organised Tour to get an initial introduction to a new country and perhaps return for future visits independently.
We now have a group of 15 and look forward to a warm sunny Easter while snow is forecast here!

[Margaret Thorne]

Many thanks, Tony, for posting your photographs on the Crocus thread – I have admired these with great interest.
All the Crocuses which might have been sieberi x veluchensis crosses were found on Parnassos and we’ll have a good search round when we go this time to see if we can find any which have pure white throats. We’ve also decided to travel further north and look at Mounts Vardousia, Giona and Iti to see if we can find C.veluchensis there.
Have you ever found Crocus chrysanthus on Parnassos? Do you know if it occurs lower or earlier than Crocus olivieri?

Photographs: Crocus habitat on Mt Parnassos, Crocus sieberi (purple and white forms) with Crocus olivieri x 2, Crocus sieberi (purple and white forms), Crocus sieberi by snow x 2, Crocus sieberi & C.olivieri on Mt Chelmos

thanks for the habitat view--i can never get enough of that sort of information!
can you explain the dynamic of this site--trees above on both sides, but bare down the middle where it seems it would be wet enough for trees--is it kept in grass for pasture? or is the valley actually dry in summer and more moisture on the slopes?

Although we have never been there in the summer, I think it must be quite heavily grazed. As the area becomes increasingly developed it is difficult to know whether grazing pressure will increase, as there is less ground available, or decrease because the farmers give up and get jobs in the tourism/skiing industry. If grazing pressure reduces it may gradually revert to woodland and become less good for the crocuses (as is happening on some Crocus goulimyi sites on the Peloponnese). Parts of this area may be too wet for trees.