trip to Cyprus -november 2009

[Sinchets]

Simon - In 1999 first saw this Scutellaria cypria in Troodos Mountains , it looks it has a very long flowering period!
In 1999 we went in june and it was already in flower then .Even in november now it was flowering...
It could snow in november over there ,so the flowers maybe wil flower until they are covered by snow?
I

Now that gives me hope- now all I need to do is find seed!
I once grew Saponaria sicula intermedia on a raised bed in the UK- it was very happy there and flowered very year for a few years. It had a more lax form than the ones you show Kris, and sadly never set seed so I no longer have it.

[cohan]

Cohan ,I was impressed and surprised myself .I didn't expect that much variaton.The forms I know from cultivation here are often not so interesting.Also the leaves were very big in several sites !This I didn't  expect at all.
 

that is what i keep thinking!-esp with persicum (i was never so familiar with other species, so they are all marvellous to me)-i sometimes wonder if they deliberately picked the dullest forms for mass production! but i suppose they were focussed on other silly things, like flower stem length etc...(i mean, i love the flowers, but all the flowers are nice anyway...)

[TheOnionMan]

Great result, and I am happy to know that it is possible in this case. Want to try it once, becuase it looks very good. As we see this Saponaria is unjustly unknown. I must ask myself one question, how does this Saponaria react on our very wet winters?   
Are they snowcovered in your garden?     

Yes, we have wet and snowy winters, right now the plants are covered with about 30 cm of hard-packed icy snow.  Spring is the dangerous time for plants here, when they can get too wet, alternating freezing and thaws, long rains and late snows.  The plants in the photograph are planted in a raised mound of mostly sandy soil, they seem to like it there.  I've never had seed form on my plants.  Interesting too, is that it is a night bloomer, not strictly so, but in the first 2009 photo you can see that in mid afternoon most flowers are closed up, but there are buds there that'll open later in the afternoon when the light gets low, these will last all night and into the morning hours the next day. Maybe we don't have the right species of moth to pollinate the flowers?

In the small book "Cyprus Flora in Colour, The Endemics", it says of Saponaria cypria flowers, "opening in the evening and closing about noon of the following day".

[TheOnionMan]

In 1999 first saw this Scutellaria cypria in Troodos Mountains , it looks it has a very long flowering period!
In 1999 we went in june and it was already in flower then .Even in november now it was flowering...
It could snow in november over there ,so the flowers maybe wil flower until they are covered by snow?

I have a small book "Cyprus Flora in Colour, The Endemics".  There are two forms listed (and pictured) of Scutellaria cypria, one is S. cypria var cypria.  This form, which reaches the altitudinal limits in Troodos Mts (1950 m) and is the more dwarf of the two forms, may be found in two color forms, red or yellow... looks like you photographed both. The book shows the yellow form, which does has red coloration at the top of the flower.  Flower time is listed as May-July.

Then there is S. cypria var. elatior, and what a stunner this one is!  It grows taller, 20-50 cm, with larger many-flowered panicles of hairy crimson flowers and white lips. It grows at lower elevations, 450-1150 m.  Flower time listed as April - June.  Any of these would be exciting to have in cultivation.

[krisderaeymaeker]

that is what i keep thinking!-esp with persicum (i was never so familiar with other species, so they are all marvellous to me)-i sometimes wonder if they deliberately picked the dullest forms for mass production! but i suppose they were focussed on other silly things, like flower stem length etc...(i mean, i love the flowers, but all the flowers are nice anyway...)

Cohan ,same problem with flowers .From some alpines we only see in cultivation  plants with very small flowers ,while in nature we can sometimes  see forms with huge flowers. 
I think that there is a simple reason ...There are many seedcollectors and they collect seeds in nature from plants that they haven't see when they are flowering.So you never know if the seeds are from plants with interesting flowers.With  these more or less "uninteresting" plants they start to breed  here in cultivation.
On the other hand ,as we go to take pictures of course we search for extremes ..

With cyclamen-leaves it  is maybe the same ?I suppose that by the time that seeds are collected in habitat from these persicums ,the leaves already are turned to dry ?So they never know from wich plants they took seeds?For really good seedcollections I think they have to go different times and have to label plants on the location...Of course this is not possible...

[krisderaeymaeker]

I have a small book "Cyprus Flora in Colour, The Endemics".  There are two forms listed (and pictured) of Scutellaria cypria, one is S. cypria var cypria.  This form, which reaches the altitudinal limits in Troodos Mts (1950 m) and is the more dwarf of the two forms, may be found in two color forms, red or yellow... looks like you photographed both. The book shows the yellow form, which does has red coloration at the top of the flower.  Flower time is listed as May-July.

Thanks Mark for your information, very interesting.Is it a good book and is it still available you think ?
I think we didn't see the second form named elatior .

[krisderaeymaeker]

Great result, and I am happy to know that it is possible in this case. Want to try it once, becuase it looks very good. As we see this Saponaria is unjustly unknown. I must ask myself one question, how does this Saponaria react on our very wet winters?   
Are they snowcovered in your garden?     

Yes, we have wet and snowy winters, right now the plants are covered with about 30 cm of hard-packed icy snow.  Spring is the dangerous time for plants here, when they can get too wet, alternating freezing and thaws, long rains and late snows.  The plants in the photograph are planted in a raised mound of mostly sandy soil, they seem to like it there.  I've never had seed form on my plants.  Interesting too, is that it is a night bloomer, not strictly so, but in the first 2009 photo you can see that in mid afternoon most flowers are closed up, but there are buds there that'll open later in the afternoon when the light gets low, these will last all night and into the morning hours the next day. Maybe we don't have the right species of moth to pollinate the flowers?
In the small book "Cyprus Flora in Colour, The Endemics", it says of Saponaria cypria flowers, "opening in the evening and closing about noon of the following day".

Mark ,
I hope your Saponaria's come in to seed sometimes ,actually I wan't to ask you earlier on if  you could spare some seeds .But it looks that this question is premature...
The area where the Saponaria's grows is also the area from another very desirable plant !
Unfortunate ,this one only flowering for a short period and even in may 1999 we are to late for that one .
It is Onosma troodi,and I hoped   to find few seeds now in november but it was even to late for that ...
Only can show a picture from an unflowering plant.

[krisderaeymaeker]

Again few pictures from Cyprus .......From a Geastrum spec. ,Pinus nigra (subsp pallasiana?) and the fine Arabis purpurea .This Arabis I can grow here in our rockgarden since 1999 .I growed it from  few seeds that we could collect in 1999 . It is not that hardy .Previous year my seedgrown plants from 1999 are al destroyed in the rockgarden by frost .But here it is occasional that it is minus 10
I was lucky that I had few in the  greenhouse ...So I could replace them.   

[Sinchets]

A lovely little Onosma too, Kris.

[krisderaeymaeker]

A lovely little Onosma too, Kris.

I agree Simon ,but never see this one in cultivation .Don't know why ?
Far as I know one of the smallest ?

[Sinchets]

To my knowledge yes it does look to be one of the smallest, almost like a goodwell behaved Cerastium the way it forms its mat.

[TheOnionMan]

A lovely little Onosma too, Kris.

I agree Simon ,but never see this one in cultivation .Don't know why ?
Far as I know one of the smallest ?

Onosma is a big genus, but it seems so few are actually in cultivation.  The ones I have tried have seemed easy in cultivation.  I posted two species in Plant Identifications SRGC page that I'm looking for an ID on.  There is a photo in "Cyprus Flora in Colour - The Endemics" of O. troodi, but it is a rather poor photo.  It reports the height as 15-20 cm, flowers yellow, rocky slopes in serpentine, 1600-1950 m altitude... status: Strictly protected.  Reginald Farrer writes about O. troodi "from the crevices of Troodos in Crete, is a twin to O. nanum in minute habit, but has even smaller leafage (not rough, but clad in tighter-ironed downy hairiness), and very much smaller yellowish flowers huddled in a head".

By the way, what is the little silver-leafed plant just to the upper right of of the Onosma troodi foliage?  Looks like an Alyssum, or maybe a Helichrysum?

[TheOnionMan]

Hello folks,

To add to the discussion of plants seen in Cyprus, I scanned a page from "Cyprus Flora in Colour, The Endemics" by V. Pantelas, T. Papachristophorou, P. Christodoulou, to show two photographs of endemic Scutellaria species pertinent to this discussion. On the left is Scutellaria cypria var. elatior, and on the right, Scutellaria cypria var. cypria.

[Sinchets]

They are both stunners, Mark.

[krisderaeymaeker]

Hello folks,
To add to the discussion of plants seen in Cyprus, I have scanned a page from "Cyprus Flora in Colour, The Endemics" by V. Pantelas, T. Papachristophorou, P. Christodoulou, to illustrate, using fair use, with no attempt to plagerise, steal, or make profit, two photographs of endemic Scutellaria species pertinent to this discussion. On the left is Scutellaria cypria var. elatior, and on the right, Scutellaria cypria var. cypria.

Thanks Mark, with no doubt a good addition to this interesting discussion.