Crocus germination

[Lars S]

Hi all,

I have so far had rather limited success when it comes to germinating crocus seeds. Last year I got the seeds late in September and put them into pots in the beginning of October. By that time temperatures had dropped to between 5-10 degrees Celsius if I remember correctly. Of approximately 15 pots only 3 germinated in spring and 2 of them with only a few seeds. This poor result might of course be due to lack of skill on my part, like for example allowing the pots get to dry during winter. But I wonder if the fact the seeds were exposed to lower temperatures without an initial period of warmth might have played a part in it. During the winter months the pots were mostly deep frozen. Also, I wonder if some of the autumn flowering species might in fact have germinated but then gotten killed by frost before any leaves had showed in the pots.

I would be very interested to hear of your experiences with germinating crocuses and especially those of you that like myself garden in a cold climate.

Lars

[Janis Ruksans]

From fresh seeds I got first flowers 17 monthes after sawing (cross between C. abantensis and C. ancyrensis) - sawn in October.
E. A. Bowles in his Handbook recommends sowing seeds no later than the first week of September. Older seeds germinate within several years but that depends on the species. G. Maw in his monograph writes that when sowing one year old seeds, 40 seeds per species, the first year number of germinated seeds for Crocus imperati was 25, C. vernus---2, C. flavus---3 and C. versicolor---0; the second year---9, 22, 1 and 13 seeds respectively.
These are best to sow as soon as possible after the harvesting. In any case losses from too advanced germination on average are smaller than losses from a delayed germination if seeds are sown late. For another way of sawing - see Ian Young's Bulb log on this forum.
Janis

[Lars S]

Thank´s Janis !
Then there´s a good chance of more seeds germinating next spring I guess.
Actually Crocus flavus was the only one to germinate in bigger numbers last spring. I guess that some autumn flowering species might germinate this autumn as well.

Lars

[Lars S]

Sunny today for the first time this week and in my little green house crocus niveus, cartwrightianus and salzmannii serotinus actually have started to germinate . So it seems that Janis´ references to Bowles and Maw in his reply fits the pattern. Not a big secret for many of you I guess, but never the less... 

I also noticed that a pot of Romulea citrina from SRGC seed 2009 has started to germinate 

Lars

[Janis Ruksans]

Thank´s Janis !
Then there´s a good chance of more seeds germinating next spring I guess.
Actually Crocus flavus was the only one to germinate in bigger numbers last spring. I guess that some autumn flowering species might germinate this autumn as well.

Lars

Those autumnals which goes in winter with leaves usually germinates with me in first autumn and well overwinters covered by 5 cm thick glass-whool sheets.
Janis

[claykoplin]

I have had much better success with fritillaria by holding the seed it the refrigerator until september the following year.  Seed exchange seed always arrives in february or march, just about when there is 1-2 meters of snow on the ground, and temperatures range from 0 C to -20 C with occasional warm/wet spells.  Spring arrives in April when things start to warm up in my greenhouse.  The snow isn't gone until May. 

I've had success planting crocus half way down the pot as Ian Young suggests and when germination happens, the seedlings are very strong.  I have not had a lot of success planting in february or march outside exposed to snow and elements.  Would I be better off holding over crocus seed until September and placing outside to the elements?

I just received JJA seed of crocus abatensis, banaticus, biflorus, kotschyanus, nudiflorus, tauricus, and veluchensis (all varieties I hope will do okay in our cool, wet summers, and wet/frozen/wet/frozen winters and am wondering if I should plant them outside to the elements or keep them in cold storage until next fall?  I could water them in and place them in my unheated greenhouse as well to keep some of the wet spells off and moderate the temperatures a little.  I kept several buckets of soil mix in the basement for winter sowing.

In typical coastal Alaska fashion, it was -10C with a little sun (what passes for sun at 60 degrees north this time of year), and today it is 7C and raining, expected to turn to snow by tomorrow then get cold again.  Weather will fluctuate like this for the next few weeks then turn cold for a few weeks, then slowly warm into spring.

[Janis Ruksans]

Short part from my coming book which was shortened by editors about growing from seeds

"Every living being, whether it is an animal or plant, has its own lifespan. They are born, grow up, and produce offsprings and die; that is the natural course of life. It is the sexual reproduction that preserves the species through millennial. Does the bulbous plant have an unlimited life span or it grow older and die? Crocuses regenerate their corms every season; perhaps, this helps to keep them younger and there are no limits to the longevity until they are killed by an external force. We know some varieties in cultivation for centuries. I have found in the wild corms with covering sheets that have layered one upon the other for more than 15 years. (I have no similar experience with crocuses but since 1981 I grow a very unusual Tulipa fosteriana form of which I found one bulb in the Serawschan mountain ridge and it has never given any offset. The forms of Crocus korolkowii collected there that same year still grow with me but they increase by splitting. In this case it somewhat resembles a tree in which each new level of branches is more juvenile than the lower branches and the old trunk.) In any case, the sexual reproduction, i.e. growing from seeds, makes your stock younger."

In an ideal situation starting with a good number of seeds which germinated well, during years before seedlings start blooming, the number of seedlings constantly decreases because of pests, diseases, your own mistakes or simple misfortunes and all other circumstances which work against you. Eventually you will end up with a few flowering plants, thanks to the natural selection perfectly adapted to your growing conditions, which have retained the genes ensuring survival for the coming generations. In such a way all the factors little by little enhance the adaptation abilities of species for garden/pot cultivation.

For Clay about exposing seeds to elements:
I sow my crocus seeds mostly in boxes or pots. Only some species which are excellent growers outside and set plenty of seed I sow on garden beds. Such are Crocus veluchensis, C. malyi, C. chrysanthus, C. versicolor, C. heuffelianus, C. abantensis, C. korolkowii and some others.

Janis

[TheOnionMan]

I sow my crocus seeds mostly in boxes or pots. Only some species which are excellent growers outside and set plenty of seed I sow on garden beds. Such are Crocus veluchensis, C. malyi, C. chrysanthus, C. versicolor, C. heuffelianus, C. abantensis, C. korolkowii and some others.   Janis   

Good discussion.

Janis, I do the same with all my crocus, that is, sow them outside directly in the garden beds. I used to fail miserably sowing crocus in pots, probably because when I was working, I'm away from my home and garden so much, I could never attend to small pots and seed flats.  On the other hand, sowing seed in situ has been tremendously successful, for not only Crocus, but for Trillium, Cyclamen, Tulipa, Helleborus niger, Fritillaria pudica, etc.  So far, I have had success sowing seed of about a dozen and a half spring crocus species, sowing seed in late summer.

I uploaded a few pictures, two showing C. angustifolius in flower but with lots of seedlings clustered all around.  I scratch in the seed in mid to late summer as the seed matures.  A third shot shows the same clump of C. angustifolius, now thick with 2-3 year old seedlings. 

[claykoplin]

Thank you, Janis - I am halfway through "Buried Treasures" for the second time and can't wait for your next book.  I need to track down your monograph on crocus.  Thanks to bulbs I ordered from you three years ago and the seed they set (erythronium sibericum especially), I am now getting crops of seedlings fresh from seed.

Back to my question - if you had not-so-fresh seed of c. abatensis, banaticus, kotschyana, tauricus, and veluchensis right now in my climate (5C and raining this morning, supposed to be clear and -5 by tomorrow morning), would you hold your seed in the refrigerator, or plant in pots in unheated greenhouse, or plant in pots outside under a large spruce tree perhaps where they won't be drowned in winter rainstorms, but won't get such a nice covering of snow either.

Onion man - I am learning that my busy work schedule and resulting lack of attentiveness have made sowing seed directly in garden soil by far my most successful tact.  The few fritillaria that I have seed raised to bloom I scattered seed around the base of the plant and spread a bit of grit over it and they sprouted like grass and are growing better than my attempts at pot culture.

Clay

[TheOnionMan]

Onion man - I am learning that my busy work schedule and resulting lack of attentiveness have made sowing seed directly in garden soil by far my most successful tact.  The few fritillaria that I have seed raised to bloom I scattered seed around the base of the plant and spread a bit of grit over it and they sprouted like grass and are growing better than my attempts at pot culture.
Clay

Exactly!!!  I would try with Frits too, had miserable results growing in seed flats, because of my busy work schedule.  Planted some rice grains of F. pudica from Jane McGary (like 20 for $1.00!, an incredible bargain), took 4 years to finally flower, but now it flowers regularly and I scratch the seed in around the plants, germinating like weeds!  Younger ones come up and go dormant quickly, older 2-3 year old seedlings stay green longer. If you look closely at the two pics, there are seedlings, more on the right hand side.  With Crocus, I find that seedlings come up thick, and in 3 years they start blooming, in 4 years one's colony of plants are thickened considerably.

[claykoplin]

Fritillaria Camschatcensis is a rampant local fritillaria here.  I cast all my garden seed on one of my beds and they sprouted like grass the next spring.  I had F. Pudica for a year from a trade, but I didn't know how to manage it and lost it.

Clay