Crocus March 2008

[Paul T]

Fantastic as ALWAYS Thomas.  As inspiring as ever.  Once my garden is finished I must print a picture of your lawn off and take it out and show the garden, to let it know where it's origins lie!! 

Thoroughly enjoying the pics, and looking forward to seeing more. 

[ashley]

Armin, Are the colours in your pics reasonably accurate? If they are, then what I grow as 'Ruby Giant' (obtained more than 15 years ago & not all that big) is more like your 'Whitewell Purple' (true). To add to the confusion, my form has white tubes.

Gerry,
I admit the picture of "Ruby Giant" was taken in full sunshine and my digicam made it a bit too reddish. In reality it is more purple. But it is definitively different in color and size compared to "whitewell purple" and C.tommasianus. The flowers are steril and I think you are right they are a hybrid with C.vernus.
My "Giants" have a darker stem too.

Armin, Gerry,

Mine with dark tubes and bought as 'Ruby Giant' (probably Dutch bulbs) match Armin's description as well as Luit's photo.  They are also sterile, clearly larger than my other tommasinianus forms, and have a distinct look of vernus about them.  I'd agree that they are very likely a hybrid.

Great pictures Thomas.

[Martin Baxendale]

Lovely display, Thomas. I'll invite myself to come and have a look next year if I get  myself a new publisher for Germany so I can combine business with pleasure.  

[Diane Clement]

Diane - a great start for a crocus lawn - looks like my own lawn 7 years ago.
Advance is a very small cultivar - I also have some on my lawn, but it is too small to be seen well in the grass.
Negro Boy is always the last cultivar coming into flower in my garden - it's not to late for yours!

This thread is moving too fast to keep up.   
Thanks Thomas, it was nice to see your lawn 7 years ago.  We can see that Chris has grown as well as the crocuses!  On the old picture and your recent picture, your grass is a lot shorter than ours.  Do you cut it before the crocuses are showing?  Or is your climate colder than ours so it hasn't started growing round?  I've been warning my husband to cut round the clumps as they were emerging but I think we could have cut it shorter before they emerged.  Still awaiting Negro Boy and Blue Bird although the latter has started coming through this week.  I'm thinking of adding some Iris and snowdrops later this year. 

[tonyg]

I think we may be being fooled Thomas - I see both wide and narrow leaves in the pic.  Is this a mixed planting?   Also Dubrovnic is mentioned for the location which is coastal ... I think of vernus as a mountain species.  The way the outer petals have opened leaving the inner ones more upright suggests tommasinianus to me.

Tony the few small leaves I see, seem to grow in a nearby pot.

 You are right about the different pots - it was late and my eyesight must have been failing me!  It still looks like a tommy to me though   Good friends can enjoy having different opinions

[Gerry Webster]

Armin, Gerry,

Mine with dark tubes and bought as 'Ruby Giant' (probably Dutch bulbs) match Armin's description as well as Luit's photo.  They are also sterile, clearly larger than my other tommasinianus forms, and have a distinct look of vernus about them.  I'd agree that they are very likely a hybrid.

I've just been out in the garden to look at the remaining plants which I supposed to be 'Ruby Giant' (probably bought in Woolworths - a good source of bulbs in years gone by). Of the plants which are very similar in shape & colour, most have completely white tubes & a few have tubes which are darker at the top. Which, if any, are the original plants I'm not sure since the garden is full of seedlings of various colours - no whites though.

[Maggi Young]

(probably bought in Woolworths - a good source of bulbs in years gone by)

And other plants, too.... we have a couple of good Camellias that came from Woolies 

[David Nicholson]

Not sure if this helps or hinders but here are a couple of pictures I posted last year of what I bought as Whitewell Purple but the balance of opinion on the Forum suggested they were Ruby Giant (OR did I amend my file name later and originally posted Ruby Giant but the balance of opinion suggested they were Whitewell Purple)??

OK I agree, this hinders

[Armin]

Gerry, Ashley, thanks for your comments.

I checked the web pages for "Ruby Giant" pictures. Almost all "dutch" clones match my discription with a darker stem. The question to me is really which form was first and official registered...

Thomas, great pictures - as always

[Staale]

Thank you for the suggestion on Crocus nudiflorus, Howard and Thomas. Will give it a try in my lawn. The point about autumn crocuses not following the calendar is also a good one. I have observed this on other autumn crocuses here in my rock garden section.
Thanks to everyone for great pictures. Keep them coming to save me from our still snowy surrowndings.

[Lesley Cox]

Going back to the discussion on page 2 of this thread, although I don't have tommies in named patches nowadays, only a general mix, when I first bought them, way back in the 1960s, from Van Tubergen in Holland, the ones with PURPLE in their name like 'Barr's Purple' and 'Whitewell Purple' did tend to be straight purple, if you know what I mean, while the ones with RUBY in their name, 'Taplow Ruby' and 'Ruby Giant' were toward the red end of purple, as one might expect.

[Lesley Cox]

Luit, in my copy of Collins Guide To Bulbs, by Patrick Synge (1961) it says 'Whitewell Purple' is "Named after the rectory where Rev. Joseph Jacob collected together so many unusual and good plants. Flower purplish-mauve outside, pale silvery-mauve inside. " There are also short descriptions for 'Taplow Ruby' and 'Barr's Purple' if you want those too.

Thank you Martin, I do have the book.
But with these colour descriptions you wouldn't come far.
To quote P. Synge:

Fl. purplish-mauve,but not quite so deep in colour although bluer than the preceeding (Taplow Ruby)

.
And for Taplow Ruby he gives: Dark rich reddish-purple, probably the deepest coloured form.
I cannot find any blue in this description.
So my question is: how blue is his or your or mine blue?
Blue in sunny weather or blue in rainy weather or blue after a long evening in the pub?

And then we have Mr. Mathew; Ruby Giant (red-purple, Taplow Ruby ( the deepest reddish purple)
What's the difference?

Shortly, what I mean is that the people writing these book probably never saw all the plants they write about.

I would suggest that both Mr Mathew and Mr Synge know the plants very well indeed, before writing about them, especially crocuses. If `Taplow Ruby' is in any doubt, forget blue altogether. There is NO hint of blue or bluish, in sun or shade, cool or warm, rain or shine or at any time at all and after a long evening in the pub only the air is likely to be blue. TR and RG are purple tending towards red only. The COLOUR of RG and TR is the same, but the INTENSITY of colour, is deeper, richer, in TR.

[ashley]

Going back to the discussion on page 2 of this thread, although I don't have tommies in named patches nowadays, only a general mix, when I first bought them, way back in the 1960s, from Van Tubergen in Holland, the ones with PURPLE in their name like 'Barr's Purple' and 'Whitewell Purple' did tend to be straight purple, if you know what I mean, while the ones with RUBY in their name, 'Taplow Ruby' and 'Ruby Giant' were toward the red end of purple, as one might expect.

Hi Lesley,
Based on what you say, as well as Mark's picture of various forms and Thomas' comments, the form Armin and I have (& Luit photographed) as 'Ruby Giant' is probably 'Whitewell Purple' after all.  There's certainly no hint of red that I can see.

[Gerry Webster]

Like Ashley, I now think that the form I thought to be 'Ruby Giant' is more likely to be 'Whitewell Purple', or seedlings from this. I note that, like Mathew, Ruksans suggests that 'Ruby Giant is a sterile hybrid.

I agree with Lesley that both Synge & Mathew had, more than likely, seen the plants they write about. In this connection, I defy anyone to produce descriptions of some of the variants pictured by Mark which would enable anyone  else to identify them with certainty. I don't know, in the abstract, what the difference is between 'violet', 'purple' & 'red-purple'.

[ashley]

Not sure if this helps or hinders but here are a couple of pictures I posted last year of what I bought as Whitewell Purple but the balance of opinion on the Forum suggested they were Ruby Giant (OR did I amend my file name later and originally posted Ruby Giant but the balance of opinion suggested they were Whitewell Purple)??

Mine's like this too David, so maybe the latter?