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Author Topic: Cypripedium-2015  (Read 26950 times)

SteveC2

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Re: Cypripedium-2015
« Reply #105 on: May 18, 2015, 10:15:07 PM »
A quick trawl around the Sarracenia websites may have revealed another source of your confusion.  They tend to just list the cultivar name, such as Sarracenia "Adrian Slack", when the full name would be Sarracenia x moorei "Adrian Slack".  Not saying anyone is right or wrong, just different ways of doing things. 

I have noticed this alternative way creeping into orchids, e.g. People selling Pleione Verdi, not Pleione formosana Verdi.  It certainly confused me as I assumed that this was a new hybrid, rather than a clone of a species.  Then of course we have the use of trade names, e.g Cypripedium Parville, Kentucky.

Confusing, you bet!

hud357

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Re: Cypripedium-2015
« Reply #106 on: May 19, 2015, 09:25:39 AM »
A quick trawl around the Sarracenia websites may have revealed another source of your confusion.  They tend to just list the cultivar name, such as Sarracenia "Adrian Slack", when the full name would be Sarracenia x moorei "Adrian Slack".  Not saying anyone is right or wrong, just different ways of doing things. 

I have noticed this alternative way creeping into orchids, e.g. People selling Pleione Verdi, not Pleione formosana Verdi.  It certainly confused me as I assumed that this was a new hybrid, rather than a clone of a species.  Then of course we have the use of trade names, e.g Cypripedium Parville, Kentucky.

Confusing, you bet!

I think that, because sarracenia is such a small family, the "Adrian Slack" usually misses out the 'moorei' unless it could be confused with another cultivar.

So is it best to assume, with Orchids generally, that eg 'Ulla Silkens' denotes a cross rather than a cloned cultivar? Unless of course it's a named clone such as you might find with Catts or Phalaenopsis  ::)

If I were to buy Phrag 'Sorceror's Apprentice' then I would be getting a generic cross between sargentianum and longifolium but if I got Phrag. Sorcerer's Apprentice 'Sunset Valley Orchids' then I would be getting a clone? (assuming the seller was reliable)

SteveC2

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Re: Cypripedium-2015
« Reply #107 on: May 19, 2015, 10:45:28 AM »
Certainly correct on the Phragmipediums front, and I think with most tropical orchids bought from reliable specialist growers.  With garden centre or supermarket plants you will be lucky to get anything close to an accurate name, possibly not even a correct genus.

But it is a little more complicated with the hardies.  I think you are right with everything except Dactylorhizas where there are named cultivars such as Harold Esslemont or Bressingham Bonus, and Pleione where of course there are many many named cultivars.


Hakone

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Cypripedium Bill
« Reply #108 on: May 19, 2015, 04:27:31 PM »

EDIT by Forum Moderator :   Apologies -some earlier photos posted by Hakone have been removed because  of a security issue with their remote hosting site.

John Aipassa

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Re: Cypripedium-2015
« Reply #109 on: May 20, 2015, 03:37:30 PM »
Here is one of my spotted leaf Chinese Cyps. These have a reputation to be difficult, although this Cypripedium fargesii is regarded as one of the easier species. Well, the German nursery where I got this from is growing it in the same way as all the other species. Raised from seed, these Cyps grow in community pots for the first two to three years and are then transferred in raised beds and grown until flowering size before being sold. The soil is all the same for every species: a mix of potting soil, sand and perlite. They experience all the weather is giving them all through the year. Only a shade cloth is provided and kept dry in the winter. I have seen dozens of plants of these in the beds, all growing well.

These Cyps had the reputation of being difficult and advice was given not to water the plant from above in order to avoid any water on the leaves. Leaf rot and the death of the plant would be the result and therefore these should never be grown outside, better left in the greenhouse. Leaves should also never touch the soil or rot will also appear. Considering the way these plants grow in nature, these advices seems rather odd in my opinion. Coming from high elevations in China, these Cyps experience lots and lost of rain in the growing season, so leafs get (very) wet inevitably in nature. What is key is the windy conditions, that make the plants dry up rather fast. So, what these plants were experiencing in greenhouses is moist, stale and not so fresh conditions so less favourable than they do in the wild. And I think this is the reason (next to wild dug plants) why these plants had a difficult time in culture.

My plants are outside all the time getting their portion of rain, but also wind. They are very healthy and are growing extra shoots. In the fall they will get a spot in the garden. I have Cypripedium lichiangense here in pots too, but from another nursery, who grows them quite the same way. All seed raised and not more difficult than other Cypripedium species. The advantage of this is that seedlings that grow to flowering sized specimens the way I described adapted to the weather regime of our climate and have all the possibilities to grow in nice specimens as all other species or hybrids we know. You only have to keep in mind what they experience in the wild. Keep the plants dry in the winter.
« Last Edit: May 20, 2015, 03:39:14 PM by John Aipassa »
John Aipassa, Aalten, The Netherlands
z7, sandy soil, maritime climate


"In all things of nature there is something of the marvelous." - Aristotle

monocotman

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Re: Cypripedium-2015
« Reply #110 on: May 20, 2015, 04:25:14 PM »
John
Nice photo and very interesting post. Good to hear that these species are more growable than we thought,
David
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Maggi Young

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Re: Cypripedium-2015
« Reply #111 on: May 20, 2015, 05:04:38 PM »
Terrific advice on your experience with these Cyps, John, thank you!
Margaret Young in Aberdeen, North East Scotland Zone 7 -ish!

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monocotman

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Re: Cypripedium-2015
« Reply #112 on: May 20, 2015, 08:02:15 PM »
A few more single larger plants flowering now.
These are x ventricosum alba, Ingrid, Lucy Pinkepank, Sunny and finally Sabine.
David
'remember that life is a shipwreck, but we must always remember to sing in the life boats'

Heard recently on radio 4

Corrado & Rina

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Re: Cypripedium-2015
« Reply #113 on: May 20, 2015, 11:48:59 PM »
Here is one of my spotted leaf Chinese Cyps. These have a reputation to be difficult, although this Cypripedium fargesii is regarded as one of the easier species. Well, the German nursery where I got this from is growing it in the same way as all the other species. Raised from seed, these Cyps grow in community pots for the first two to three years and are then transferred in raised beds and grown until flowering size before being sold. The soil is all the same for every species: a mix of potting soil, sand and perlite. They experience all the weather is giving them all through the year. Only a shade cloth is provided and kept dry in the winter. I have seen dozens of plants of these in the beds, all growing well.

These Cyps had the reputation of being difficult and advice was given not to water the plant from above in order to avoid any water on the leaves. Leaf rot and the death of the plant would be the result and therefore these should never be grown outside, better left in the greenhouse. Leaves should also never touch the soil or rot will also appear. Considering the way these plants grow in nature, these advices seems rather odd in my opinion. Coming from high elevations in China, these Cyps experience lots and lost of rain in the growing season, so leafs get (very) wet inevitably in nature. What is key is the windy conditions, that make the plants dry up rather fast. So, what these plants were experiencing in greenhouses is moist, stale and not so fresh conditions so less favourable than they do in the wild. And I think this is the reason (next to wild dug plants) why these plants had a difficult time in culture.

My plants are outside all the time getting their portion of rain, but also wind. They are very healthy and are growing extra shoots. In the fall they will get a spot in the garden. I have Cypripedium lichiangense here in pots too, but from another nursery, who grows them quite the same way. All seed raised and not more difficult than other Cypripedium species. The advantage of this is that seedlings that grow to flowering sized specimens the way I described adapted to the weather regime of our climate and have all the possibilities to grow in nice specimens as all other species or hybrids we know. You only have to keep in mind what they experience in the wild. Keep the plants dry in the winter.


Thanks John this is an amazing plant, It think you must have got the conditions perfectly. Also thanks for the notes and advice.
« Last Edit: May 21, 2015, 10:35:05 AM by Maggi Young »
Corrado & Rina

Hakone

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cypripedium kentuckiense x microsanos
« Reply #114 on: May 21, 2015, 06:11:22 AM »

EDIT by Forum Moderator :   Apologies -some earlier photos posted by Hakone have been removed because  of a security issue with their remote hosting site.

fredg

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Re: Cypripedium-2015
« Reply #115 on: May 21, 2015, 07:35:36 AM »
Cypripedium guttatum

Fred
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Maggi Young

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Re: Cypripedium-2015
« Reply #116 on: May 21, 2015, 10:36:14 AM »
cypripedium kentuckiense x microsanos

These dark flowers are very attractive against the rich green of the foliage. They look so healthy!
Margaret Young in Aberdeen, North East Scotland Zone 7 -ish!

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Corrado & Rina

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Re: Cypripedium-2015
« Reply #117 on: May 21, 2015, 04:52:04 PM »
Unfortunately, after last week's weather rollecoaster, Cypripedium margaritaceum ready to flower got stem rot ....  :( .... I hope it will survive.



Regards
Corrado & Rina

Corrado & Rina

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Re: Cypripedium-2015
« Reply #118 on: May 21, 2015, 04:58:25 PM »
I repost here again, because of misidentification. The recently flowered Cypripedium tibeticum seems to actually be Cypripedium calcicola: it misses the white rim and it does have the translucence windows at the back of the lip. What do you think?





« Last Edit: May 21, 2015, 05:00:19 PM by corradoerina »
Corrado & Rina

monocotman

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Re: Cypripedium-2015
« Reply #119 on: May 21, 2015, 06:12:45 PM »
There are tibeticums without the white rim around. Not sure about the windows.
All the photos of calcicola I have seen are of very dark flowers.
In the macranthos/tibeticum complex there are lots of muddy waters as regards classification,
So in the end you may be right,
David
'remember that life is a shipwreck, but we must always remember to sing in the life boats'

Heard recently on radio 4

 


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