Helleborus 2015

[Jeffnz]

Here the main fungal problem is botrytis, difficult to control
Black death has been reported to be present here in NZ but the extent of the speared of the virus has not been well documented. Can anyone advise me of the current status in Europe re black death? I am aware that some well known hellebore nurseries did have infected plants which were being sold to unsuspecting customers. 

[Maggi Young]

 This RHS page, and  a link or two there which may be of interest:

https://www.rhs.org.uk/advice/profile?pid=167

[Jeffnz]

Maggie
Thanks yes had seen the article before.
Black death seemed to have been here for some years arriving with hellebores imported by a local nursery from a UK source.
The nursery used the plants for seed and did not distribute plants. However the nursery closed some plants were dug up and planted in a garden in the same area, soon after the gardener who was responsible for the garden noticed the tell tale symptoms of BD (she had seen diseased hellebore plants in the UK) and sent leaf samples for testing and thus the virus was confirmed here. Stress seemed to be the trigger for the virus expression as plants at the original site were claimed to show no symptoms. This was abut 10 years ago and since then few murmurings about the disease despite the widespread availability of hellebore plants from a few commercial suppliers.
I think the hellebore nurseries played ostrich when faced with the extent of the virus infection. and some even continued to supply plants that had a high probability of having the virus albeit in a latent state.

[johnralphcarpenter]

Helleborus niger is flowering well before Christmas. A difficult plant to grow, it is very site specific; I have planted it in various places in the garden and this is the only one to survive. I think this is 'Potter's Wheel'

Helleborus x ballardiae 'Shooting Star' is such a good plant - got this from Staudengärtnerei Peters.

This also came from them: bought as Helleborus x glandorfii Pink Large Flowered, I think they have now decided it is in fact Helleborus x lemmoniae.

[astragalus]

All of them are lovely.  I can't even imagine hellebores in bloom before April, although with our ridiculous warm weather there are some that are still quite green.

[Jeffnz]

For me niger is a difficult garden species, very intolerant of wet feet and susceptible to crown rot. Never seen any comments about soil conditions of niger in the wild. We get no winter snow cover and winter is sees our highest rainfall.
BTW I have one hybridus well advanced to flowering its supposed to be summer down under... Surprisingly it is usually the double forms that flower out of season.

[Leena]

I have read that H.niger can be short lived and more difficult to grow than H x hybridus, but I haven't found it difficult.
My plants grow in woodland beds, in the same conditions as H x hybridus.
I have seed grown strain of H.niger since 2006, and here it seems to be short lived. It flowers two or three years from germinating and then flowers two or three years and then just dies for no apparent reason (after flowering it ripens the seeds but doesn't grow any new leaves, then I know it will die that year), but it produces a lot of seeds and survives like that. It flowers quite late, later than my other bought H.niger, usually in en the end of April and beginning of May here, and it's flowers turn green in the end of flowering rather than red like my other bought plants do.
I have also some H.niger plants which have been sold here for Christmas flowers. They flower earlier than my seed grown plants, and I have never gotten seeds from them. I have thought that H.niger is so common and available plant that I haven't collected seeds from my plants, I will next year.
I have also couple of seedlings grown from wild collected plants from Italy, I hope they will flower in spring 2017.

First two pictures from last April from my seed grown plants, and then one Christmas Helleborus niger.

[Leena]

I have also Helleborus 'Jacob', it is said to be H.niger, but to me it's leaves look different, and also it has never produced seeds here. Perhaps the reason is that it flowers quite early but I still find it peculiar. Has anyone else gotten seeds from it? What do you think, is it a hybrid?
I have had it since 2011, and it seems to grow bigger every year, now there are a lot of flower buds already visible, and I suspect I will see the first flowers already in January or if we get snow then right after the snow has melted.
The first picture is 'Jacob' in the beginning of last March, the second picture is from mid April when it's flowers had turned red. Snowdrop is 'S.Arnott'.
The last picture is from today (there was snow last week but it has now melted away).

[johnralphcarpenter]

I suspect that your cooler woodland condition suit helleborus better than my hot dry garden!

[Leena]

I suspect that your cooler woodland condition suit helleborus better than my hot dry garden!

Yes, that could be. Even in summer when it is relatively hot (between 20-30C), the woodland part in shade is cooler.

[Roma]

Interesting experience with Helleborus niger, Leena.  I have an old plant which usually flowers well before Christmas.  It was in the garden when we moved here over 30 years ago.  A new house in an old garden.  An elderly aunt and uncle lived here before we bought the property and the Hellebore may even date back to my grandparents' time.  It never sets seed.  I have another, bought from a garden centre some years ago.  It is short lived but sets plenty seed and even self sows.
On another topic.  I have a number of old hellebores originally from seedlings acquired when working in the Cruickshank Botanic Garden in Aberdeen.  They are all reddish purple colours and not very exciting compared to modern hybrids.  What is remarkable is they always have very healthy foliage.  I see the occasional black spot on them but other more recently acquired hybrids, even those grown from seed can get very messy.  If I remember correctly the original plants were purchased from the Plantsman's Nursery about 1977 or '78.

[Jeffnz]

I believe that niger 'Jacob" is a tissue culture line ands this may explain a few aspects of its behaviou including seed set. Would try to HP and see if seed set occursr. Have the same issue with a few hybridus I grow particular the double white Mrs Betty Ranicar of which seed from OP occurs vary rarely. Pods do form but are empty of seed, this trait is also carried by a number of the doubles derived from MBR.
Modern hybrids of many garden plants are more susceptible to diseases than their origin species, hellebores mire so due to intensive line breeding for colour and flower shape. It is only relatively recently that rose breeders have really focused on plant health and disease resistance. In some ways this is fortunate as home gardener's world wide are finding tit increasingly difficult to purchase sprays for disease control. Currently we have only one systemic insect spray amiable and its future is not at all secure. Imagine having the apply a contact insecticide to control aphid outbreaks on hellebores, doesn't bear thinking about.

[Leena]

Thanks Roma and Jeff.
Roma, it is interesting that you have also found some which are very long lived and some which are short lived.

Jeff. you may be right about tissue culture explaining the behaviour in seed set. I'm not very good at hand polluting, but I'll give it a try.
Here I haven't found black spot in my hellebores yet (knock on wood), hybrids have a healthy foliage now except some had their leaves damaged by severe frosts in October, and it seems that those were all grown from Elisabeth Town Hellebores seeds, perhaps their leaves were thinner or softer and that is why the frost damaged them and not others. I have cut down all the damaged leaves.

[Thorkild Godsk]

Helleborus niger
flourishes today 8° c  today in Denmark
Thorkild.

[johnralphcarpenter]

And here in wet and windy but warm Kent.