Some Thoughts on The Selling Of Ephemeral and 'Old' Seed

[Garden Prince]

At the start of the autumn I always take a new look at the seed catalogues (in print and on-line) and wonder what I can sow before the onset of winter. I am a seed-sow-aholic and there is no known cure for this addiction! So I scroll and turn the pages and  try to make a choice. What strikes me is that I see many items on offer that can only be a success when stored moist or are reasonably fresh. Take for instance Daphne. This seed must be sown fresh otherwise it will not germinate. In the past I have several times sowed Daphne tangutica seed without any success: after 4 years not a single seed germinated. Now I know better: only really fresh seed gives good germination and seed that is stored cold and dry will almost never germinate. I for one have not heard or read about good germination rates with 'old' Daphne seed. Fresh Daphne mezereum seeds (picked from the shrub, washed and cleaned, and sown immediately) gives me a very high germination rate.

Daphne is not the only example. Magnolia and some Acer species seed lose their viability if it is stored dry. Some perennials also do not store very well for long. So why do so many seed companies offer seeds from species that are stored wrong or are not really fresh? I assume that they know the germination requirements for the seeds they offer but maybe this is a wrong assumption. Otherwise why do I see so many Magnolia seed offered that is stored dry? Or has it something to do with money? Or is the proper storage of ephemeral seed too much work? Or does it give problems with customs?  I think seed sellers are misleading the customer when they offer seed that is stored the wrong way or is not really fresh. The way I see it they should offer certain species only for a limited amount of time and store seeds the right way or not offer them at all. What use is it to sell seeds that almost certainly won't germinate at all?

Luckily there are many companies and persons that do it the right way. I don't want to make this writing into an ad but I have good experiences with Gardens North. Also with Yuzawa Engei. But there are many more good sellers who take the customers serious. Something to think about the next time you order your seeds.

[David Pilling]

Seed companies are in the business of selling seed, and gardeners are in an entirely different business.

I've bought lots of dead seed that never stood a chance, but on the other hand I have bought seed which in theory can't be stored dry but which has done well. Last example was Kirgenshoma, had this from Seed Ex, no use. Bought some and supplied in such a large quantity that a dozen seeds germinated.

I don't like it when seed companies sell things without knowing anything - like some allium seed I bought, going to take six years to reach flowering size, but the company suggests transplanting outside after year one. Then again they often suggest scattering expensive seed outside - makes a lot of sense if you are selling seed.

There is a lack of information with seed, or incorrect information.

Also the thing of supplying small numbers of seeds, and then one finds half of those are chaff, the chances of success rapidly approach zero.

When I set off, I naively assumed seed companies grew all their own seed (it's all supplied by big companies and traded around for years until dead), then I started to wonder why they all had the same photos on their web sites, why don't they take their own photos (because they never grow stuff themselves).

[Susan Band]

Sometimes it is grown by forum members

[Lesley Cox]

I always work on the principle that "fresh is best" and sow as soon as I get it, remembering that most of the seed I sow (except from my own garden) is from the northern hemisphere so I receive it in my autumn through winter, or if I get it in the spring, it was collected or harvested at least 9 months and maybe a year or more, previously. So I suppose it's amazing I get anything much to germinate. Yes I too am thoroughly addicted to seed and won't ever say "NO MORE!"

So far as Daphne is concerned and some others which must be fresh such as Trillium, a note somewhere, could have been on Trillium-L a few years ago, suggested placing the seed in a small muslin bag and hanging the bag for several days - or weeks? - on the inside of the toilet flush tank. This washed away any inhibitors and must have softened the seed too. I haven't done it but it must be worth a try.

Something I've often wondered about is why do many species germinate a single seed then nothing more? It certainly encourages one to carry on, but is frustrating too. I have 4 very rare things at present, each pot with a single healthy seedling about 6-8 months old, but no sign of any further germination though last autumn or this spring.

[Hillview croconut]

I read this thread with great interest. Like Lesley I live in the southern hemisphere but I mostly grow bulbs. Hence I resist the temptation to sow this seed until the autumn or in the case of hellebore, in the late summer. This brings things into correct alignment with seasonal progression.

I guess defining old is difficult when generalising about a wide range of plants but these are a few of my observations.

Fritillaria and crocus seed is perfectly viable for up to 3 years if stored correctly.
Calochortus even longer.
Colchicum are devilishly difficult to germinate evenly and I wonder what systems are at work to suppress this. I think there was some reference on the forum to this matter.
Cyclamen seed can be coxed back from inanimation with a good soaking in warm soapy water and the exclusion of light when sowing. Interestingly someone suggested blending up slugs and using the resultant liquor as the soaking marinade.
I have had some success with dry trillium, notably hibbersonii, erectum and simile but I have no idea why. I assume it was that season's issue. Old trillium seed often takes to years to show a cotyledon. Once had an interesting and surprising situation with what I considered dud Trillium grandiflorum. After deciding to give up and prick out hellebores into seed boxes I was confronted a few weeks later with a veritable lawn of young and hopeful trillium seedlings. I required some deft dibber work to rectify the situation.

I, like many of you, get deeply incensed with seed sellers who continue to list last year's seed or the year before at the same price as the current crop. Mojmir Pavelka at Euroseeds always provides the year of harvest and from there on its one's own choice. Its amazing what does come up - last year I sowed 5 year old Salvia ringens seed and nearly all germinated!
 Cheers, Marcus
 

[annew]

Interestingly someone suggested blending up slugs and using the resultant liquor as the soaking marinade.

I can't see how this would work, but it would be very satisfying!

[Michael J Campbell]

why do many species germinate a single seed then nothing more?

Because some plants put out inhibitors once one germinates to give it a better chance of survival (I find Tropaeolum notable for this) You may have noticed that a lot of plants never have seedlings within a 5 or 6 feet of the parent.  It is part of the survival process of evolution.

[David Pilling]

Michael that's a really interesting comment.

I was going to say that by spacing out germination in time there is an increased chance of one surviving - good years and bad. In the sense of each seed being programmed with a different germination time when created.

Contrarily, the observation I have is that when one seed germinates so do others. Can explain that by they all need the same time or same conditions, but I'd wondered if there was some mechanism where germination of one stimulated germination of others.

So on Michael's theory, if one was germinating seed in zip lock bags with damp paper, as soon as one seed germinated one should take the rest out wash them and change the paper.

This would make a nice experiment - any offers for a specific species where the effect is largest.

[Hillview croconut]

Hi Michael,

That might explain why colchicum seed germination is sporadic and long time framed. It has logical precedent in the plant world, for example, apical bud hormonal suppression of ancillory bud development.

Anne, I think using blended snails as a marinade is based on the idea that slugs have lots of enzymes that break down plant tissue and enable them to eat it. So when seeds are soaked in this cocktail they are subject to powerful enzymes that help break down (lyase) inhibitors in the seed coat.

Cheers, Marcus

PS I agree it would be satisfying but I wouldn't like to use the blender for any other purpose except to make a smoothy for one's worst enemy.