Erythronium

[Catwheazle]

can someone tell me th difference between E dens canis and sibiricum?
Are there a link to a key
Thx
Bernd

[David Nicholson]

Probably Ian Young will be able to give you a more detailed reply to this Bernd  but one distinguishing issue is that in the main the pollen colour in dens-canis is mainly yellow and in sibiricum is mainly dark-violet.

[Maggi Young]

There are  precise  descriptions  in the  book by  Chris  Clennett - and there  is an option to  download that for  free  here : http://arubabooks.com/get/ebook.php?id=4PMkmwEACAAJ

 See also Ian Young's  free e-book on the    Erythroniums in Cultivation ....
http://files.srgc.net/general/ERYTHRONIUMS-IN-CULTIVATION%20-2016-IanYoung.pdf

[Carolyn]

Probably Ian Young will be able to give you a more detailed reply to this Bernd  but one distinguishing issue is that in the main the pollen colour in dens-canis is mainly yellow and in sibiricum is mainly dark-violet.

Other way round, David, dens-canis pollen is violet. Senior moment?!

[Maggi Young]

Clennett  gives  sibiricum   anthers as  dark purple - but  most are  yellow  in the ones  I've  seen.
 dens-canis  pollen can be  brown  but  is   mostly, bluish lilac.

[Ian Y]

The majority of Erythronium dens-canis that I have seen in cultivation have dark violet pollen, some at stages may give the appearance of a white bloom sitting on top of the dark pollen similarly E. sibericum mostly appears in cultivation as the yellow pollen forms.

Having said that there are dark pollen forms of E. sibericum and yellow/brown pollen in some forms of dens-canis but as yet these are not commonly seen in cultivation.

To answer Bernd the colour of the pollen is the first thing to check, there are a number of other subtle differences in the filaments,, style,  leaf, etc but while I can quickly see the differences between them it is difficult to write it down in words that is why it is so difficult to write a precise key. Have a look at the detailed pictures in my book and you will pick out some of these features.

[David Nicholson]

Other way round, David, dens-canis pollen is violet. Senior moment?!

Very 'senior', happens a lot!

[David Nicholson]

There are  precise  descriptions  in the  book by  Chris  Clennett - and there  is an option to  download that for  free  here : http://arubabooks.com/get/ebook.php?id=4PMkmwEACAAJ

Possibly they won't accept UK credit cards (you need to set up an account to proceed) or on my present form I got the card numbers wrong? I did check it a couple of times though.

[Maggi Young]

That's  odd - I just  saw that one  needed to create  a  "free account" - and I  (foolishly!)  assumed  it  meant  just  that - so I had  no idea  credit  card details  would  be  required.   (sigh!)

[Ian Y]

You can see the Erythronium sibiricum chapter from my book here:-

http://www.srgc.org.uk/logs/logdir/2015Nov251448456813BULB_LOG_4715.pdf

[Catwheazle]

wow, great :-) Thanks for the information!
@ Ian: You've made me really curious about erythronium :-) Great info .... and ... I got while reading an interesting information. I have two different clones of sibiricum. one of them is noticeable in some winters - as this year - because the flowers have only very short stems. That's not the case with the other clone. It's not every spring either way. Your note with the rapid, or slow warming I can confirm!
Thank you all
Bernd