Cyclamen kuznetzovii

[johnw]

How hardy will said Cyclamen coum need to be to be deemed hardy?

Good question Simon.  If the winter cold is protracted and with frozen soil coum can get killed at about -16c. If the cold is very brief and the ground unfrozen deeply it can take a brief -20c I'd say.  If there is alot of standing water about that turns to ice and the drainage is off too then -15c might kill it here.  I bet there are gardeners out there who grow it in extremely cold areas that have reliable snow cover.

I think it was Louise Beebe Wilder who said she couldn't grow it in New York State (Long Island wasn't it) but a friend who she corresponded with described coum as the hardiest species he grew in Ontario, Canada.  If we had a coum that could take -23 or -25c with no snow cover it would be very safe here. Having said that it would have to be able to withstand the drainage and ice issues which is too much to ask of any species. So give us a coum that takes -25c with no snow cover and we'd be happy as clams and we'd fix the drainage too. 

It will be interesting to hear how coum fared in the UK with and without snow cover this past winter.

johnw

[Lesley Cox]

David's kuznetzovii looks exactly like any other Cyc. coum, to my mind, as do all the other so-called ssp that I've seen. If it's just a matter of relative hardiness, it doesn't matter here as the whole lot are quite hardy, except perhaps, the 'Pewter Group' which loses some leaves in even our small cold. The corms are never damaged though and make more, undamaged leaves later in the season. I'm definitely on the side of the lumpers, and with all other plants too.

[Gerry Webster]

David's kuznetzovii looks exactly like any other Cyc. coum, to my mind.....

And to mine.

[Sinchets]

John, the lowest temperatures our Cyclamen coum have had here (when we have known the outside temperature) have been -15C sealed solid to the ground under a rime of frozen rain. After that they received snow cover and fully recovered afterwards. We are lucky that long periods of cold are generally associated with snowfall. There are various populations of Cyclamen coum spread around Bulgaria and we haven't explored them all yet. The ones in the north of the country would normally experience less snowfall and more chilling Siberian winds- but I don't know if this renders them any hardier than the populations found down near the Turkish border. However nothing is certain and the whole country has had an unusual month with more snow and lower temperatures than some areas generally expect.
I must say I agree with Lesley about the differences between some of these new species. Go to any large natural population of C.coum and you will find differences- pick out two extreme examples and call them new species 

[johnw]

Simon - No question my kuznetzovii is at this pioint indistinguisable from any other coum here.   I guess the solution is to find one adaptable to the strange climate here.

Presently a lovely day around 5c and sunny but the ground is frozen solid and snow is forecast for tomorrow.

johnw

[Janis Ruksans]

Simon - No question my kuznetzovii is at this pioint indistinguisable from any other coum here.   I guess the solution is to find one adaptable to the strange climate here.

Presently a lovely day around 5c and sunny but the ground is frozen solid and snow is forecast for tomorrow.

johnw

Leaves are something variable but generally less mottled than in other coums. The difference is (by Dima Zubov) in the surface of tuber - in one of them it is smooth, in another rough, but I not remember in which. Unfortunately Cyclamens didn't belong to my favourite plants in Soviet time and then I didn't checked local floras in Russian for this genus and haven't notes about this. There were no greenhouses allowed in private garden under communist regime and Cyclamens were too risky plant for outside.
Janis

[Thomas Huber]

....... There were no greenhouses allowed in private garden under communist regime ......

WHY

[johnw]

Simon - No question my kuznetzovii is at this pioint indistinguisable from any other coum here.   I guess the solution is to find one adaptable to the strange climate here.

Presently a lovely day around 5c and sunny but the ground is frozen solid and snow is forecast for tomorrow.

johnw

Leaves are something variable but generally less mottled than in other coums. The difference is (by Dima Zubov) in the surface of tuber - in one of them it is smooth, in another rough, but I not remember in which. Unfortunately Cyclamens didn't belong to my favourite plants in Soviet time and then I didn't checked local floras in Russian for this genus and haven't notes about this. There were no greenhouses allowed in private garden under communist regime and Cyclamens were too risky plant for outside.
Janis

Janis  - I got 5 seeds from the Cyclamen Society labelled Russian form, dark nose.  Only one sprouted and it's tuber looks like the other coums here so far but the leaves  - unlike all the others - died down completely in early winter - I can only hope it deciduousness means it's a bit hardier!

Unfortunately I can't see the CS kuznetzovii ones as they are too deep in the pot.


johnw

[Herminarik]

Hallo John, here are two years old seedlings of Cyclamen kusnetzovii. Cheers Igor

As mentioned before, after reading Janis Ruksans' account of Cyclamen kuznetzovii and its superior hardiness I have been chasing it down.  Janis mentioned Sahins had it so I wrote to them. Unfortunately all of their stock plants was sold!

As Cyclamen coum is not reliably hardy here I thought this was a very important species to get for Nova Scotia.  We have tried Ellen Hornig's hardy strain of coum without long term success.  I often wonder how she tested for cold hardiness when she is in the snowbelt of New York State.

With luck I got seed from the Cyclamen Society a couple of months ago. Now this seed may be crossed with tender coums but it is better than nothing,  Two seeds of about 30 or more have sprouted in the last month. They are plain green, which is fine by me. Janis mentions his kuznetzovii seed took several years to sprout.

I'm wondering if any forumists are growing kuznetzovii and/or have seen photos of this species' leaves or flowers?

Hopefully pure kuznetzovii will appear in the future.

johnw
[/quote

[Janis Ruksans]

....... There were no greenhouses allowed in private garden under communist regime ......

WHY

Very simply - hard working you can grow more than you need, you can sell surplus and you will be independent from government's paid minor salary, so you will feel free... No more comments. When we fought for freedom of Latvia from Russian occupation - I asked myself - can I stay on side? I was journalist, editor of newspaper, but I was growing bulbs and selling them half-legally, getting more money than my official salary. So I decided to take part in revolution and was one of the leaders. Many journalists did this, but I was in better position. Fired from my job I wouldn't stay without money for family, contrary to those journalists who hadn't another occupation. In USSR people fired from job for political reasons couldn't find any job more. My wife was fired from her job just for political reasons but fortunately she found a good Dirrector of collective farm who accepted her regardless of Communist Party order not to give her job anywhere. IT WAS HORRIBLE SYSTEM.
Janis