We hope you have enjoyed the SRGC Forum. You can make a Paypal donation to the SRGC by clicking the above button

Author Topic: Pre-virescent, part-virescent, intermediate green. Opinion sought!  (Read 3000 times)

Matt Bishop

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 50
  • Country: gb
    • Matt Bishop - Snowdrops
Something for everyone to think about....
I'm just working my way through the last of the poculiforms, that is the ones with no markings and heading fast towards the greens which I see broadly as three types - Green Tips at one end of the spectrum, virescents at the other. The question is this;
What to call the ones which are somewhere in between (clones such as 'Hugh Mackenzie' 'Prague Spring' ect)?
I've talked about them as intermediate greens (which seems clumsy) part-virescents (which doesn't sound much better). Hagen, the other day came up with pre-virescents and this I really like but I'd love to hear your opinions......
So tell me what you think!

Brian Ellis

  • Brian the Britisher
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5210
  • Country: england
  • 'Dropoholic
Re: Pre-virescent, part-virescent, intermediate green. Opinion sought!
« Reply #1 on: March 26, 2016, 04:34:49 PM »
I always think of those you mention as 'Bohemian' but perhaps just 'mid-green'?
Brian Ellis, Brooke, Norfolk UK. altitude 30m Mintemp -8C

Tim Harberd

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 479
Re: Pre-virescent, part-virescent, intermediate green. Opinion sought!
« Reply #2 on: March 26, 2016, 04:55:19 PM »
Hi Matt,
  Doesn't 'pre' as a prefix usually have time connotations? Would its use infer that the cultivar was going to become virescent??

  Would 'semi' be a better prefix to use?

Tim DH

Alan_b

  • 'finder of the light'
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3986
  • Country: england
Re: Pre-virescent, part-virescent, intermediate green. Opinion sought!
« Reply #3 on: March 26, 2016, 06:59:27 PM »
I'm stuck for a good word.  'Part-' or 'Partially' seem clumsy.  Semi or Demi mean half and that isn't accurate.  Pre means before and that isn't right either.

The same problem arises with other types of snowdrops.  'Angelique' is on the way to being poculiform but only partially so.  Most of the Trym-types are only partially inversely poculiform when compared to the likes of 'Valentines Day'.  Well, I've had to fall back on partial/partially.  But I'm not a botanist so maybe there is a more learned equivalent?
Almost in Scotland.

Maggi Young

  • SRGC Hon. Vice President
  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 44966
  • Country: scotland
  • "There's often a clue"
    • International Rock Gardener e-magazine
Re: Pre-virescent, part-virescent, intermediate green. Opinion sought!
« Reply #4 on: March 26, 2016, 07:06:45 PM »
'Partially' is more accurate, I think ?  Quasi, perhaps?
Margaret Young in Aberdeen, North East Scotland Zone 7 -ish!

Editor: International Rock Gardener e-magazine

annew

  • Daff as a brush
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5449
  • Country: england
    • Dryad Nursery: Bulbs and Botanic Cards
Re: Pre-virescent, part-virescent, intermediate green. Opinion sought!
« Reply #5 on: March 30, 2016, 09:31:18 PM »
Sub-virescent?
MINIONS! I need more minions!
Anne Wright, Dryad Nursery, Yorkshire, England

www.dryad-home.co.uk

Bailey

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 8
  • Country: gb
Re: Pre-virescent, part-virescent, intermediate green. Opinion sought!
« Reply #6 on: March 30, 2016, 11:30:15 PM »
As I don't appear to have been completely affected by White Fever and seem more resistant to Green Fever, and at the risk of upsetting those that have been, and to Parody Monty Python" Why do we have to name them.why not ignore them and they might just go away?"The continental classification of snowdrops seems unwieldy.How many times do you need to subdivide something? if you choose Virescent, Something Virescent and Green Tipped , do you then not need to make the latter clearer as well?If there is a real need to give some fancy name to intermediates,I would have suggested Semi or Demi. After this was suggested previously, I checked the online dictionary, both of these prefixes have been corrupted from their original meanings of "half something",blurring to "partly something",in much they same way that unique,meaning only one,is used for few or rare instead, and things can be more than 100% even though they can't.
« Last Edit: March 30, 2016, 11:31:50 PM by Bailey »

Alan_b

  • 'finder of the light'
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3986
  • Country: england
Re: Pre-virescent, part-virescent, intermediate green. Opinion sought!
« Reply #7 on: March 30, 2016, 11:47:08 PM »
To start-out with a corrupt or sloppy use of terminology is surely to head-off in the wrong direction.  That's why I don't favour 'pre' or 'semi' or 'demi'.
Almost in Scotland.

Leena

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2884
  • Country: fi
    • Leena's You Tube Videos
Re: Pre-virescent, part-virescent, intermediate green. Opinion sought!
« Reply #8 on: March 31, 2016, 09:09:54 AM »
I don't know what the right way to name them would be, but it is a good idea to have a name for different kinds. How else would I know what kind I am buying!
Leena from south of Finland

Chad

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 41
Re: Pre-virescent, part-virescent, intermediate green. Opinion sought!
« Reply #9 on: April 01, 2016, 08:25:05 PM »
I would be interested to hear from people growing these from seed.
I suspect there are different inheritable mechanisms at play, and I’m not sure your suggested grouping reflects that.
I think there are three inheritable characteristics, and would suggest you consider grouping by ‘type of colouring’ rather than where in the petal the colour is. This may have to do with a different mechanism [I think some of them are expressing inner petal marks on the outer petals].

I think the groups are;
1. Solid mark [South Hayes and all the Trumps group etc].
2. Green concentrated on vascular bundles [Cowhouse Green, Hugh Mackenzie, Rosemary Burnham etc].
3. Diffuse green marks [Virescens, Green Mile].

There is still a judgement call as to which group to put some varieties in [just how tight does the pigment have to stick to the ‘stripes’?], but I think the breeding lines suggest they are distinct.  [Hagen should have a better handle on this].

On this plan you are looking for new words!  ‘Solid’, ‘Linear’, ‘Diffuse’?  I think ‘Virescent’ would apply to the last group if you wanted to keep the term.

Chad.
« Last Edit: April 01, 2016, 08:30:59 PM by Chad »
Inland Cornwall

 


Scottish Rock Garden Club is a Charity registered with Scottish Charity Regulator (OSCR): SC000942
SimplePortal 2.3.5 © 2008-2012, SimplePortal