Scottish Rock Garden Club Forum
Bulbs => Bulbs General => Topic started by: krisderaeymaeker on January 06, 2013, 10:00:10 PM
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It seems that nobody take the lead to open the new Cyclamen year ...
I want to start with a few that flowers now ...
Cyclamen repandum 'Alba ' (very early in flower this year)
Cyclamen coum
Thanks to the mild winter the leaves of hederifolium are stil undamaged.
A slivery graecum seedling is at his best now .
This hederifolium is climbing into this conifer.
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:o Beautiful C. graecum foliage Kris ;)
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:o Beautiful C. graecum foliage Kris ;)
Thanks Nicole , it is indeed one of the better seedlings. Seeds came from plants that I obtained from Peter Moore and wich are labeled as graecum from Rhodopou. Rhodopou is known for his good silvers ....
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Very good silver ! :D
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Hello Kris, the silver leaf Cyclamen graecum from Rhodopou looks great, glad you found a one at Peters that produces excellent seedlings.
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Hello Kris, the silver leaf Cyclamen graecum from Rhodopou looks great, glad you found a one at Peters that produces excellent seedlings.
Thanks Melvyn , I must admit that I lost the original plant few years ago but fortunately I have 3 strong seedlings now with very good silver leaves.
I stil have very very good memories when I look back to my visits to Peter's nursery ! We always had a great time there ,and the plants from his nursery have a special place in the collection ...
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Cyclamen coum ex. Yayladgi
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Arnold, I'm just wondering if this one is travelling under a "nom-de-plume" In Turkish (I think!) the word "Yayla" translates as alpine meadow or plateau, and the word "dag" (again I think!) translates as mountain, so could it be "Yayladag"?
Cyclamen alpinum grown from seed (SRGC 07/1070) sown August 2008.
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David
I think it is named after a mountain in the Hatay where it was collected - Yayla Dag. I have seen it there(not that actual plant)
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David + Tony ,
here the explanation :
The seed of this plant came from me :D ( I have sent one portion to Arnold before many years )
By a trip in Turkey ( fall 2001 ) we visit the area near the syrain border -the village on the border is named Yayladagi ( there a now a lot of syrian people in camps ) -on the way back ( only few KM from Yayladagi ) we made a stop in a wood for a short break - there I have found some bulbs/corms on the open ground ( maybe wild pigs have dug it ) I take it with me without knowing what it is ...later the plants have flwered here and I could see it is a Cyclamen ...so I call it Cyclamen coum ex Yayladagi ;D
Hans
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Ah, I see, thank you Hans.
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Cyclamen coum 'Porcelain' a new selection by Jan Bravenboer.
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Hans:
Thanks for the true story. I know the village is on the border.
It has grown well in spite of some early years of poor management.
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Cyclamen coum 'Porcelain' a new selection by Jan Bravenboer.
John, what a dainty flower - Jan always has extraordinary selections!
Gerd
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Isn't it lovely Gerd? I immediately fell in love with it, when I saw a picture of it. Jan was so nice to allow me to get one of the very few he has available at this moment. Within 1,5 years more will become available.
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I'll need to keep an eye out for that Porcelain!
A few from the greenhouse - much out at the moment.
I have one grown from Cyclamen Society seed as C.elegans but it's not like the one I had from Tilebarn so I'm a bit suspicious. I have a few C.cyprium out, one lone C.colchicum and a rather nice C.coum albumissum.
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Just some new Cyclamen hederifolium seedlings from us
Roland
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And a wrong one in-between my Cyclamen hederifolium Silver Arrow Seedlings
R
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I have one grown from Cyclamen Society seed as C.elegans but it's not like the one I had from Tilebarn so I'm a bit suspicious.
Very nice Mark but I think the elegens is coum. But then, what do I know? ::)
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I immediately fell in love with it, when I saw a picture of it.
Me too! How lovely!
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A spectacular frost last night. Cyclamen coum is not bothered though.
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Great pictures Anne!
Here some pictures of leaves - first two of the garden, last one was taken in the greenhouse of a friend - a really nice C. coum.
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Lovely forms Hans, what are the flowers like on that C.coum?
I've just got a few C.coum out in the garden at the moment. Here's one, it's the the only thing above the snow apart from the shrubs in a border outside.
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Thanks a lot Mark - Very lovlely picture of your C. coum!
On last Cyclamen coum I had seen pink buds - here a picture of a sibling of the same sowing.
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Beauty Hans
looks a little as one I saw in the nursery from Peter Moore
Roland
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;D How not to grow cyclamen: thanks to an industrious mole, a C. hederifolium plant has gone through the winter tipped on its side. I wondered what that funny brown rock was in the garden. Now that the weather has warmed a bit, I'll tip it back today.
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Here are some pics of Cyclamen coum - all are more or less related to another
1. wonderful tiny ' Golan Heights'
2. + 3. ' Lake Effekt '
4. albissimum pallidum album (hope this is the right term)
Gerd
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Very nice Mark but I think the elegens is coum. But then, what do I know? ::)
When in Iran we noted variation with different leaf forms around Astar. As the seed came from the Cyclamen Society I am sure it is elegans 8)
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Great to see Hans , Mark and Gerd.
Here some coums and alpinum flowering for the moment .
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Thank you, Kris!
Is the dark C. coum a named cultivar?
Gerd
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Cyclamen Society Early Spring Show - 9 February- Wisley - I hope everyone heading to this event tomorrow has a great day.
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Thank you, Kris!
Is the dark C. coum a named cultivar?
Gerd
No Gerd , I picked them out in a batch of more then hundred plants ....
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Cyclamen Society Early Spring Show - 9 February- Wisley - I hope everyone heading to this event tomorrow has a great day.
My, a deafening silence - either there has been some catastrophe or perhaps the attendees are still recovering from the excitement .....
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I first noticed this in 2012, but the leaf is back again this year, so it must belong to a corm I reckon. Its distinctively different, but is it good or bad? Not sure whether I should cosset it or throw it out.... your thoughts would be appreciated...
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Yes Maggi, the Cyclamen Society Wisley Winter Show - and yes, that's the 'official' name (I get slapped wrists when I call it Early Spring ...) - did take place and it was a good day despite the fact that certain notable characters were missing due to the Galanthus Gala. Entries in the show were a little bit thin due to the strange season but I don't think it would have made much difference if the 'notable characters' had been able to make it. Even the vast acres of Mr Robertson's Cyclamen alpinum were somewhat reduced with his biggest plants not having made the grade. In spite of this we welcomed a good number of Wisley visitors to the show - more than we might have expected given the uninspiring weather - and they seemed to enjoy both the show and the 'added value' supplied by an exhibit of emboidery of alpine plants (including some superb Cyclamen), and a display of early woodblock prints and engravings of Cyclamen dating from 1542 to the 19th century.
We were lucky to have Jim Almond to take the show photos and rumour has it that some of them may find themselves on-line in the near future.
Best wishes to all .....
Martyn
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To be honest, Martyn, I have to agree that "Early Spring " seems a bit optimistic!
Glad you all had a good day - the "added value" sounds most interesting too. Personally I find such extended connections both enlightening and educational.
It may well be that the fairly grotty weather might have been the exact thing that drew people out to visit - desperate for some floral cheer! It's certainly what accounts for the hectic enthusiasm that exists for the SRGC Early Bulb Day. ( See how canny we are there with the name- just "early" - no arguing with that ;D )
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I first noticed this in 2012, but the leaf is back again this year, so it must belong to a corm I reckon. Its distinctively different, but is it good or bad? Not sure whether I should cosset it or throw it out.... your thoughts would be appreciated...
I would cosset it if it appeared here Chris. I always admire different looking leaves and that one looks variegated from the pic.
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I first noticed this in 2012, but the leaf is back again this year, so it must belong to a corm I reckon. Its distinctively different, but is it good or bad? Not sure whether I should cosset it or throw it out.... your thoughts would be appreciated...
Christine, there are so many self-sown seedlings around the main clump, so your plants are clarly very fertile. So perhaps the variegated leaf is a baby that has grown in side the inner circle of the mother plant. I wonder if some careful excavation might allow you to discover if there is a baby corm in there - if so, you could extract it to grow on in its own space?
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I'll take a look and see what I find. It is definitely the same place as last year, but whether its just part of a corm I don't know. Next good day we get.... its been stunning here today, planted my newest snowdrop ;D and a few other things I found at Dunblane....
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This coum is from the south most population of the species, located in the Upper Galilee region.
The wild population counts less then 80 plants.
I have been growing it for the last 8 years and have already quite a number.
It is important first in order to keep a stock in case this population would extinct, second reason is the potential of this form as it is the only one mange to coop with high temperatures.
In the wild it grows side by side with C. persicum.
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This coum is from the south most population of the species, located in the Upper Galilee region.
The wild populations counts less then 80 plants.
I have been growing it for the last 8 years and have already quite a number.
It is important first in order to keep a stock in case this population would extinct, second reason is the potential of this form as it is the only one mange to coop with high temperatures.
In the wild it grows side by side with C. persicum.
So worthwhile to be giving this coum which has such extreme weather tolerance some protection Oron. Hard to imagine how it has adapted to this heat - so many mysteries in these little plants!
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So worthwhile to be giving this coum which has such extreme weather tolerance some protection Oron. Hard to imagine how it has adapted to this heat - so many mysteries in these little plants!
Maggie, i find it also fascinating.
A good example for me is C. intaminatum: i have been trying to grow it for the last 12 years, probably sown hundreds of seeds, but they never mature due to the dry, hot conditions.
But out of these hundreds, a single seedling has adapted to these conditions and is thriving in the garden in hot backing sun and so probably this has been the same process with the above.
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Some photos taken this morning,
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Maggie, i find it also fascinating.
A good example for me is C. intaminatum: i have been trying to grow it for the last 12 years, probably sown hundreds of seeds, but they never mature due to the dry, hot conditions.
But out of these hundreds, a single seedling has adapted to these conditions and is thriving in the garden in hot backing sun and so probably this has been the same process with the above.
I'm sure this is the reason why I've had so much better luck with raising my own plants - and the absolute strongest ones are the ones that self sown into the plunge or other plant's pot - there has been some selection already taken place.
Nice C.africanum hybrids - I assume they are C.hederifolium crosses? Just occured to me if anyone has started doing deliberate crosses with things like C.h crassense?
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Yes Mark, they are hybrids with hederifolium, confusum and probably crassifolium too, they all grow side by side therefor difficult to say who the parents are.
Here is a selection of some C. persicum leaves. [wild forms]
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....i have been trying to grow it for the last 12 years, probably sown hundreds of seeds, but they never mature due to the dry, hot conditions.
But out of these hundreds, a single seedling has adapted to these conditions and is thriving in the garden in hot backing sun and so probably this has been the same process with the above.
Friends and I have found this also to be true with some borderline 'hardy' palms.
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This coum is from the south most population of the species, located in the Upper Galilee region.
The wild population counts less then 80 plants.
I have been growing it for the last 8 years and have already quite a number.
It is important first in order to keep a stock in case this population would extinct, second reason is the potential of this form as it is the only one mange to coop with high temperatures.
In the wild it grows side by side with C. persicum.
That's really interesting! What's about Cyclamen coum album 'Golan Heights'? Is its provenance more southern than the place where your red specimen originated?
I never tested the hardyness of 'Golan Heights' - is there any experience from northern growers?
Gerd
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This coum is from the south most population of the species, located in the Upper Galilee region.
The wild population counts less then 80 plants.
I have been growing it for the last 8 years and have already quite a number.
It is important first in order to keep a stock in case this population would extinct, second reason is the potential of this form as it is the only one mange to coop with high temperatures.
In the wild it grows side by side with C. persicum.
Fascinating Oron!
Had only one C.coum which survived the hot conditions here (seeds were collected in southern turkey near Yayladagi in 1996 )- only one of several plants survived in my hot and dry conditions. Of this some seedlings appeared last year and are still alive.
Another I am trying here because of the southern origin is C. coum 'Golan Heights'.
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That's really interesting! What's about Cyclamen coum album 'Golan Heights'? Is its provenance more southern than the place where your red specimen originated?
I never tested the hardyness of 'Golan Heights' - is there any experience from northern growers?
Sadly, I have lost C coum 'Golan Heights' several times through the winter, always in a pot plunged in sand in a frame. I've never tried it in the open garden, but I think it might stand a better chance.
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"The word on the street" (though one wonders what street that might be) is that it's a pretty weak grower anyway. I lost mine after a year or so and the Golan Heights from the Cyclamen Society so far have turned out to be normal coum.
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Wow, a BED of Cyclamen africanum. I'm struggling with a couple of seedlings in a pot on the kitchen window sill!
Oh, and I've lost C. coum 'Golan Heights' in the garden.
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"The word on the street" (though one wonders what street that might be) is that it's a pretty weak grower anyway. I lost mine after a year or so and the Golan Heights from the Cyclamen Society so far have turned out to be normal coum.
Quite a few forumists have reported here over the years that they've lost Cyclamen 'Golan Heights'
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"The word on the street" (though one wonders what street that might be) is that it's a pretty weak grower anyway. I lost mine after a year or so and the Golan Heights from the Cyclamen Society so far have turned out to be normal coum.
It looks as mine set seeds Mark
just help me remember this summer
and I send you seeds if you are still interested
Roland
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"The word on the street" (though one wonders what street that might be) is that it's a pretty weak grower anyway. I lost mine after a year or so and the Golan Heights from the Cyclamen Society so far have turned out to be normal coum.
Well, i always suggests to grow it in the same way you would grow C. rholfsianum or C. graecum!
Coum 'Golan Heights' comes from the Northern part of the Golan, growing on basaltic soil, mainly at the base of Oak trees, less in the open area.
Conditions are very hard as in winter the area is damp and cold with some days of snow each year and temperatures that drop easily to -5. While in summer the area is completely dry for almost 7 month! with not even one drop of rain and temperatures that rise to 35c.
There for the southern populations of the species are growing very differently from the northern ones. You should stop watering it in early March and 'bake' it till November.
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That's really interesting! What's about Cyclamen coum album 'Golan Heights'? Is its provenance more southern than the place where your red specimen originated?
I never tested the hardyness of 'Golan Heights' - is there any experience from northern growers?
Gerd
Gerd,
The south most population is about 70km SW of the one in the Golan heights and at a lower elevation, in very different conditions which is an exposed, windy, rocky area.
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Roland, thanks for the offer :)
Oron, thanks for the habitat information and tip.
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I just had a look
There are four seed-pods
so help me remember in June
R
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Thank you alltogether for the information concerning the 'Golan' Cyclamen.
My plants - from Jan Bravenboer origin - although of a little bit dwarf appearance
do well and flower regularly (kept frost free).
Gerd
p.s.
Cyclamen coum (album) Lake Effekt seems to be the best totally white here
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Some other coums.
I found what appears to be C. coum Tilebarn Graham in my frame which i thought I'd lost years ago. I think it just didn't flower because these don't look like seedlings. Hope to get it into better condition - bit scrappy at the moment.
Also I found what I think I grew from AGS seed as "Macka". Anyone know anything about it and does this look like "Macka"?
Finally just a nice one I found, quite likely a self sown seedling.
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Also I found what I think I grew from AGS seed as "Macka". Anyone know anything about it and does this look like "Macka"?
Is this any help? http://www.cyclamen.org/RegisterPage17.html (http://www.cyclamen.org/RegisterPage17.html)
And Ruby Baker wrote :" Cyclamen coum 'Macka' hailed from N.E.Turkey in the 1960s and has small but bright flowers in abundance, the leaves are silvery with darkly green centres."
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Kit Grey-Wilson describes 'Macka' as follows:-
"........ characterised by rounded, silver washed leaves with a small central deep green area. The flowers are deep rose-magenta......" he goes on to say "'Macka' does not appear to be available today although plants originating from this source are undoubtedly still grown..........."
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thanks. Might be I guess. I won't be donating any seeds as "Macka" - it may have come from diluted stock.
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the first plants of Cyclamen are in flower here too :)
Cyclamen creticum rose
Cyclamen creticum white
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very nice. I bet they smell great :)
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Wow
Never seen the white form Gerhard
maybe one day we can swap some seeds
Roland
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two forms of Cyclamen parviflorum
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hello friends,
first Cyclamen are now flowering for me.
Cyclamen coum 'George Bisson'
(http://www.bildercache.de/bild/20130303-150101-415.jpg)
Cyclamen persicum 'Ugarit'
(http://www.bildercache.de/bild/20130303-150101-80.jpg)
I found this dark color clone
when I visited the ancient site of Ugarit / Syria about 25 years ago.
enjoy
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Nice Parviflorum Tony. Mind don't seem to be flowering this year. I have one pink one and one white one with a bluish basal blotch.
Goofy, I have or had a similar dark form of punicium the same dusky pink and similar leaves. It also came from Syria I think, collected originally by Basil (?) Blount - it was offered by Jim Archibald. Lovely thing. The leaves look similar too.
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Wow
Never seen the white form Gerhard
maybe one day we can swap some seeds
Roland
Feel free to contact me a pm for seeds or plants.
I thought the white flowers are usual and the rose are the rarest form ???
@ Tony; Cycl. parviflorum :o :o
A plant, which I have got from Czech. Rep. is in flower too, but I expect it is wrong labeled, and rather a Cycl. coum ?!
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Gerhard
the second picture is of one I raised from seed I collected on the Zigana Pass in 1993,it is now 20 years old.
It has a good number of offspring which I have distributed over the years.
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Cyclamen persicum 'Ugarit'
I found this dark color clone
when I visited the ancient site of Ugarit / Syria about 25 years ago.
enjoy
Hi Goofy,
Here flowered some descendants from your 'Ugarit' type - a dark one in autumn, another dark in
winter and spring and a totally white just now. I enjoy them a lot.
Are the 'white genes' from the origninal site?
Gerd
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Here in the Southern Hemisphere Cyc. hederifolium are starting to flower, but what was this I spied inthe rock garden half-hidden by dying dianthus foliage?
[attach=1]
A little judicious clearing revealed - the first Cyclamen graecum for the season!
[attach=2]
One of the seedlings raised from NARGS Seedex - donated by Ellen Hornig, NY.
cheers
fermi
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Hi Goofy,
Here flowered some descendants from your 'Ugarit' type - a dark one in autumn, another dark in
winter and spring and a totally white just now. I enjoy them a lot.
Are the 'white genes' from the origninal site?
Gerd
Gerd, congrats. up to now I have no progeny flowering ............
the seeds were "hand self pollinated",
so it must be some "white gene", which I think is the "standard" color ;)
I remember there were "masses" of the whites
cheers
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Hi Goofy,
Thanks for replying and congratulations!
The resulting white specimen has flowers of a pure white (forma albidum?) and doesn`t look
like the more common white ones with a deep pink or crimson-magenta zone at the base of each petal.
Definitely all colour variants and especially the autumn flowering plant are choice jewels.
What a pity that the place Ugarit and Syria nowadays is more known for bad news.
Gerd
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hello Gerd,
thats interesting with the "pure white flower".
there were hundreds of thousands,
but I dont remember that there was a pure white.
I am sure I "would have it now" ;)
cheers
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I'm not sure if I like this one.
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I grew this silver/pewter coum from Cyclamen Society seed, I think it came as C. purpurascens album so it's a bit "off label".
Interesting thing though, very pink eye and interesting veining, hints of pink there - I think I originally thought it was C. purpurascens Silver leaf.
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Cyclamen coum outside in the snow and Cyclamen pseudibericum nice and cosy in the greenhouse
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We now have quite a lot of snow here
Cyclamen persicum album from Cycl soc seed. The scent is very nice pity it can't be shared
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Great plant Ian!
So far no luck with the white or the red form of persicum from seed - so far all the plants had the normal colour combination.
Interesting in this C. persicum are Origin and petalform. Second shows a flower of C.repandum (ex Crete). :D
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hello friends,
just took this picture of my
Cyclamen persicum with the white flowers.
most flowers are over, this is the last...........
Cyclamen persicum
(http://www.bildercache.de/bild/20130324-155906-184.jpg)
enjoy
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Very nice photo.
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A group of Cyclamen pseudoibericum seedlings (I think relatively common for you all Cyclamen gurus) in flower in my garden today. For an almost "Cyclamen virgin" like me it is however a nice patch of colour in such a grey day!
Matt
[attachimg=1]
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Not very common outside in UK gardens, Matt - so we can take pleasure in seeing your Italian garden - very grey here, too!
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I have a form of Cyc. graecum with twisted petals flowering at the moment - a fantastic little plant indeed!
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Cyclamen flowering here in South Australia too.
This one has seeded itself in a pot with a label which says Urginea. They are such easy care plants in my shadehouse.
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lovely Matt, nice to see the plants in a more "natural" setting.
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The Cyclamen graecum uncovered at the beginning of the month is still in bloom,
as is the white one growing in another part of the garden - it also needed uncovering.
cheers
fermi
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Nice display Fermi, your garden must look a picture at present.
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Nice display Fermi, your garden must look a picture at present.
In small patches, David!
And here's the darker pink C. graecum in bloom.
cheers
fermi
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Fermi I wish I could flower graecum like that
Here a first flower on a seedling raised from seed from an impeccable source as persicum autumnale ???. As it is very young am I correct in thinking that this strain often flowers in the spring in the UK?
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I bought an absolutely genuine plant from Peter Moore - he sold it to me on the understanding if it flowered in the spring I wouln't complain because it seems, yes, if not treated "right" they flower in the spring. I've raised seedlings and treated some really roughly - still flower in spring - lots of different colours off one seed pod.
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I bought an absolutely genuine plant from Peter Moore - he sold it to me on the understanding if it flowered in the spring I wouln't complain because it seems, yes, if not treated "right" they flower in the spring. I've raised seedlings and treated some really roughly - still flower in spring - lots of different colours off one seed pod.
Thanks Mark funnily enough my seed came originally from Peter - it was as I said an impeccable source but it still seemed odd
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well if it's any consolation my plant was an absolute "standing room only" flowerer - the seedlings seem to be like that too.
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I bought an absolutely genuine plant from Peter Moore - he sold it to me on the understanding if it flowered in the spring I wouln't complain because it seems, yes, if not treated "right" they flower in the spring. I've raised seedlings and treated some really roughly - still flower in spring - lots of different colours off one seed pod.
Probably why mine has flowered in the spring ;)
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One of my absolute favourites, C.libanoticum
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Cyclamen kusnetzovii from Crimea in full bloom.
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Mark I also like libanoticum
C x wellensiekii from seed sown in 2008
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Very nice Ian. For some reason although I've got C x wellensiekii and C pseudo-ibericum x libanoticum (can't remember the name of that) I've had no luck so far. Only C.pseudo-ibericum came up. Not giving up though!
btw - does it have a scent? I love the smell of cyprium, libanoticum not so much.
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I sowed some Cyclamen africanum seed from the SRGC seed exchange in February 2012. I can see two flowers developing. That's quick! :o
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Very nice Ian. For some reason although I've got C x wellensiekii and C pseudo-ibericum x libanoticum (can't remember the name of that) I've had no luck so far. Only C.pseudo-ibericum came up. Not giving up though!
btw - does it have a scent? I love the smell of cyprium, libanoticum not so much.
Hi Mark yes it does have scent and considering the size of the tuber it is very floriferous but the seedlings vary. With these hybrids I am never sure whether they are the real thing or not but this one seems to OK. The other species I think you were thinking about x schwarzii (libanoticum x pseudibericum)
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Fermi I wish I could flower graecum like that
Ian,
I don't grow it - it grows itself ;D
Here's the dark flowered one again - now with more foliage showing - I think I prefer it like this!
And another pale pink one in another rock garden with a westerly aspect
cheers
fermi
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Hi Mark yes it does have scent and considering the size of the tuber it is very floriferous but the seedlings vary. With these hybrids I am never sure whether they are the real thing or not but this one seems to OK. The other species I think you were thinking about x schwarzii (libanoticum x pseudibericum)
I think it's the hybrid too. There's a hint of auricle in the flower on the left.
Yes, it is schwarzii, it slipped my memory. As in the Spaceballs blessing, "may the schwarz be with you"
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This was a suprise. I'd noticed some repandum type leaves in the plunge and yesterday I noticed a flower. A bit like a giant version of C.balearicum, right down to the lilac veining at the petal tips although the shape is different . You can see some c.pseudo-ibericum flowers for comparison - it's about 2-3 times bigger than balearicum.
It must be some kind of c. peloponnesiacum cross. I have something looking similar but much smaller that seems to be another cross rather than proper balearicum.
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Isn't Cyclamen coum wonderful? Just goes on and on in the garden whatever the weather, albeit not a pristine as in a pot.
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1-3 Coum and crocus bed
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The coum and crocus bed is really really nice!
Is it in shade in the summer and what grows there later?
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Flowering for the first time, from seed (SRGC 07/8-1066) sown September 2008 Cyclamen creticum
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very nice David. I seem to have a large number of things that are either supposed to be balearicum or creticum but seem to sit somewhere between the two.
This is a pseudo-ibericum that's a little different - more a dusky purple than usual
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Five years from seed. I wonder how long it will take my cyprium to flower? C. africanum was just over a year, and it looks as if there are flower buds on my graecum sown Sept. 2011.
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Anthony, I think cyprium is reasonably quick. But it's a plant that seems very variable in growth rate.
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I seem to have a large number of things that are either supposed to be balearicum or creticum but seem to sit somewhere between the two
I have this labelled as Cyclamen creticum but the pink striations on the flowers, and perhaps the foliage, looks more like balearicum?
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Cyclamen mirabile ex Tilebarn Nicholas in a shade-house.
cheers
fermi
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My Cyclamen mirabile is looking good, but no flowers yet. I love the forms with pink on the upper sides of the leaves.
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Three different Cyclamen rhodium subsp. peloponnesiacum plants from the same seed parent (a Cyclamen Society expedition plant).
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I have this labelled as Cyclamen creticum but the pink striations on the flowers, and perhaps the foliage, looks more like balearicum?
I'd say that is balearicum or a hybrid of balearicum based on the veining at the tips of the petals.
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I'd say that is balearicum or a hybrid of balearicum based on the veining at the tips of the petals.
Thanks, Mark, that's what I thought too. This repandum group could make Oholibah blush!
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Three different Cyclamen rhodium subsp. peloponnesiacum plants from the same seed parent (a Cyclamen Society expedition plant).
Ooo, quite a variation! I have two tiny seedlings labelled Cyclamen peloponnesiacum ssp. rhodense and will be delighted what ever they look like.
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Anthony, they say just as you learn how to grow a particular plant, you lose your last one :). And I find the repandum group particularly easy to kill!
Some of the cyclamen in the greenhouse are starting to go over now. Here's three C. hederifolium (ex Zakynthos, probably subsp crassifolium) whose leaves are still looking OK.
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I'm having to learn all over again. Plants that I could only dream about are thriving (my Narcissus viridiflorus from Bill Dijk had one flowering stem last year; this year I could have nine! It is in a pot outside.), and others are struggling. I was overrun with Cyclamen hederifolium in Dunblane, and even spread it around the neighbourhood, so we'll see how it does here. Cyclamen repandum came and went in Dunblane, but I'm hopeful it will do better here.
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A good leaf-form of C. pseudibericum. And purpurascens seedlings looking ready to pot on...
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WOW
Good job Steve
Roland
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Thanks, Roland. I'm looking forward to growing on some of the better leaf forms of purpurascens in those batches of seedlings. The species doesn't get the same attention commercially as some of the others, I think. You've got Jan B at Green Ice Nursery on your side of the channel but here in the UK I'm not aware of any nurseries really selectively breeding the species for the better leaf-forms. This will be a cue for UK posters to point me in the direction of any number of said nurseries! :) Anyway, the moral is to keep sowing seed and, after a few years, good forms will appear ;D
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very nice Steve.
I'd appreciate some opinions on some plants raised from seed that aren't quite as expected. They've come to me either as C.creticum or C.balearicum but have been mislabelled.
b1 - came as C.creticum but I think it's balearicum - particularly due to the veining at the tips of the petals.
b2 - I think is balearicum, pretty typical
c1 - I'm wondering if this is creticum?
thoughts anyone? and help telling the diference - I can't quite fathom the difference in leaves quoted in books
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and here is c1 - the one I think might be creticum
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Mark, I think we could both benefit from having creticum and balearicum stock plants of known provenance in the greenhouse so we'd have something against which to compare pots of seedlings! I'm no expert but would agree with the IDs of your three plants although I think b1 could be either. It's not straightforward because there is a lot of variation in the wild, I think, and they do hybridise in cultivation...
Creticum flowers are meant to be slightly larger and not as 'stumpy' as balearicum. I wonder also if there is a noticeable difference in scent between the two species? Both are fragrant but does one (balearicum? creticum?) generally have a stronger scent than the other? While the leaves should also be a diagnostic feature, I have to say I have struggled sometimes when it comes to deciding which leaves key out to which species (it's that genetic variability again!) The cyclamen info on the Pacific Bulb Society website has photos of balearicum and creticum on the same page which helps to compare. Creticum usually has a more pronounced toothed/'wavy'edge to the leaf, I think.
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I think the "problem" is mainly down to balearicum. I remember the plants illustrated in books in the 50s & 60s conformed to a particular type - big blue green leaves, silver washed with small stumpy flowers heavily veined with lilac. When I saw the plant in the wild the leaves were more like repandum and I think we have now many more varied plants in cultivation.
To an extent the same has happened to creticum which used to be hard to get hold of.
So I have some reference balearicum that are from that old form, (too) few CSE creticums (which are generally tiny) and a bunch of things that are probably balearicum that came to me as creticum. And possibly vice versa. I expect the hybridise too.
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See reply 107 on previous page-does this mean my little grown from seed creticum may not be?
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David I can't tell. I think creticum can have a pink nose but I don't think it ever has lilac veining at the tips of the petals. Sometimes that's hard to see - I only changed my bets on one of the photos I put up after looking at the enlarged photo.
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David, your plant looks like creticum to me.
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Cyclamen rhodium subsp. rhodium. This particular plant has a pink tinge to the flowers.
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David, your plant looks like creticum to me.
Thanks Steve.
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Cyclamen repandum RBGG Sicily starts flowering here
they survived -13ºC here in the garden
and I thought they weren't hardy at all
Roland
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A few pics from me. Some are a bit blurred, sorry.
C. rhodium ssp. peloponnesiacum. This has been out in the garden for several years now.
C. rhodium ssp. peloponnesiacum - in the greenhouse
C. rhodium ssp. peloponnesiacum vividum
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Cyclamen pseudibericum is nearly over here
Cyclamen repandum, rhodium peloponnesiacum and rhodium vividum have been very good this year
There are two flowers on persicum in the background, four out of six survived the big freeze of 2010 but are still not performing well
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There are two flowers on persicum in the background, four out of six survived the big freeze of 2010 but are still not performing well
Hi Roma, I have the same problem although of those that survived some have recovered more quickly than others. The plants from Rhodes (ex CSE) fared the worst and are still sulking a bit. My plant ex Israel - progeny of one of the high altitude CSE plants - is definitely the toughest and copes with the cold conditions better than the others.
Incidentally, I think I read on an earlier Cyclamen thread that some of the C rohlfsianum you grow are progeny of the Cruikshank Botanic Gardens plants collected in the 1950s. Do they have much variation or are they all fairly standard? I ask because I have a few grown from CBG seed (CS seed distribution - perhaps you were the donor!) and it would be interesting to see any photos you may have so I can compare :)...
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Here are some repandums flowering in Tuscany last week. We saw large numbers in lovely woodland. The photos never do the plants justice
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very nice. I have one in a trough but it's not flowered for years.
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Hi Steve
My Cyclamen persicum are also from seed from a CSE Israeli plant.
There are two collected Cyclamen rohlfsianum plants at the Cruickshank Botanic Gardens and two of their offspring (at least there were when I retired :-X). i did send seed to the Cyclamen Society one year when we had a good crop. I'm glad to hear someone is still growing plants from that seed. I do not think I have any digital pics of the original plants. They are a bit different in flower and leaf. I used to have four, two from each parent but lost one to vine weevil when it was left in the greenhouse too long after a visit to the SRGC Discussion weekend. They normally live on an upstairs bedroom windowsill. i don't seem to have pics of the leaves. Must remedy that this year ;D. The following were taken in 2011 and show one plant has flowers darker than the other two. Is there variation in your C. rohlfsianums?
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Ian, Mark, I planted a few Cyclamen repandum close to a plant of Actaea simplex about two years ago. Last year I had a few leaves and one flower. This year I have a few leaves and one flower and as the Actaea is spreading and is growing fast I am not going to see the cyclamen too well :-\.
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Mark Roma I have some little plants outside and some self sown seedlings which have a couple of flowers. I hope that by continuing to sow a proportion of seed in the open I will eventually get a tougher strain. The repandum types to my eye are some of the most elegant of the family
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Mine got there by accident so it's in the wrong place. By accident the troughs also got C.intaminatum (the plain leaved white form) which has prospered and also the C.pelops that I manged to dig up and put elsewhere in the garden.
I actually have a pelops in the lawn too.
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There are two collected Cyclamen rohlfsianum plants at the Cruickshank Botanic Gardens and two of their offspring... I did send seed to the Cyclamen Society one year when we had a good crop. I'm glad to hear someone is still growing plants from that seed...They normally live on an upstairs bedroom windowsill... Is there variation in your C. rohlfsianums?
Roma, thanks for showing pics of your flowering rohlfsianum. If I get any to flower this year I'll be interested to see how they compare. I confess that my plants have been a bit neglected - they really do need to be repotted this summer. I, too, grow them on a bedroom windowsill and I'm sure they'd be happier and flower better if I moved them to the greenhouse for most of the year, only bringing them indoors for the worst of the winter. There's some variation - a couple have good leaf markings and one has darker, roundish leaves ('cabbagey'). They've all gone over apart from a few lingering leaves on two of the plants. Photos below. I find rohlfsianum go dormant quite early if I don't watch the watering as the temperature starts to rise in the Spring. Cheers, Steve
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A pic of a rather nice form of C.balearicum.
On the subject of persicum a number of mine did poorly this year but I've just noticed that one that lost all it's leaves is now starting to sprout again.
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A pic of a rather nice form of C.balearicum.
That's a good leaf-form, Mark.
C. purpurascens - first flower of the season (in the greenhouse).
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My thousand posting must be in the Cyclamen topic ...... ;D
Stil in flower .........never been so late in flower ......
Cyclamen rhodium ssp. peloponnesiacum
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very nice. I noticed today I still have C.creticum out. One lone flower but I'm sure it's lasted weeks now.
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very nice. I noticed today I still have C.creticum out. One lone flower but I'm sure it's lasted weeks now.
Strange season Mark , I also have one creticum in flower ....
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Congratulations on your 1000th posting, Kris :)
I still have flowers on Cyclamen rhodium ssp. peleponnesiacum too, though the plants are suffering from the heat in my greenhouse. The first flowers are opening on Cyclamen purpurascens
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I've just noticed buds on one of my purpurascens.
It somehow got a buddy which is a very dark C.coum - any suggestions when I might be able to seperate them? Usually I repot C. purpurascens in March, coum over the summer. And they are very close buddies - I think I'll need to wash the soil off and try and untangle - I don't really want to lose either plant, any suggestions?
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Mark, why not try separating them now? The coum is/is going dormant and the purpurascens will only get bigger the longer you leave it as the new leaves come out and it grows away over the summer. As long as I'm careful when teasing apart the roots, I find purpurascens doesn't seem to mind being moved too much, certainly with younger plants. In fact I was potting on an overcrowded pan of purpurascens year-old plants this weekend.
Cheers, Steve
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Congratulations on your 1000th posting, Kris :)
I still have flowers on Cyclamen rhodium ssp. peleponnesiacum too, though the plants are suffering from the heat in my greenhouse. The first flowers are opening on Cyclamen purpurascens
Thanks Roma , just back from holiday and I notice that the first purpurascens are open here also .
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Steve, yes I did seperate it. The purparascens was a lot bigger and older than I realized. I didn't get much root but time will tell.
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hello friends,
this is the first Cyclamen to flower this summer in my garden.
I did not expect to find it still alive,
because I have not seen that seedling for about 3 years under a bush,
but here it is:
Cyclamen purpurascens albiflora :)
(http://www.bildercache.de/bild/20130723-173450-691.jpg)
enjoy
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very nice. I have a few normal purpurascens - probably my favourite species for scent.
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Very nice one
never seen it in real
Thanks for posting
Roland
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hello friends,
some more Cyclamens now in the garden:
this is a seedling, origin seeds from the Velka Fatra mountaisn in Slovakia,
which I received from a dear forum member some years ago,
tks Karel. flowering the first tme this year.
Cypripedium fatrense with nice smell :)
(http://www.bildercache.de/bild/20130807-125042-81.jpg)
Cypripedium hederifolium cv. Frohnau with very deep red flowers.
(http://www.bildercache.de/bild/20130807-124849-913.jpg)
enjoy
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Tremendous colour in that last one, Goofy! :o
I hope you're saving seeds!
cheers
fermi
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yes,
have some seedlings from last years,
which unfortunately were NOT of THAT deep color,
have already pollinated some flowers this year,
so stay tuned for some seeds later............... :)
cheers
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In a setting with old vines, Cyclamen hederifolium, sometimes called 'Rosenteppich'.
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Nice plants Dieter . Like the situation for your hederifolium Gerrit. Here is the first of my C colchicum to flower.
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nice colchicum,
I am not so lucky with mine,
and I wonder that nothing is to see yet ! ?
will "dig" and check ............... and hope ;D
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nice colchicum,
I am not so lucky with mine,
and I wonder that nothing is to see yet ! ?
will "dig" and check ............... and hope ;D
Dieter This is not unusual I have a plant which is not showing at all yet
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I keep my Cyclamen colchicum moist at all times Last years leaves only die back as the flowers and new leaves appear. I lost my 1st. one because it got dry Luckily it had set seed and I have some replacements
Jean
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I keep my Cyclamen colchicum moist all the time as well. I had one flower about three weeks ago. I repotted them and now all five are showing signs of growth.
Cyclamen purpurascens
Cyclamen purpurascens album - one flower a couple of weeks ago. It now has a few new leaves and I hope will have more flowers
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Cyclamen purpurascens
Cyclamen purpurascens album - one flower a couple of weeks ago. It now has a few new leaves and I hope will have more flowers
Very nice Roma ! The album is great .
Here some spontaneous seedlings in the garden ........ they show up on different places ...
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Dieter This is not unusual I have a plant which is not showing at all yet
tks Ian,
YESY !!!
I found a wonderful tuber, 6cm diameterr.
with fat "dormant buds"
I MUST BE PATIENT............... ;D
Kris, nice flower shape and dark color on your plants ............ :thumbsup:
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Kris, nice flower shape and dark color on your plants ............ :thumbsup:
Thanks Dieter ! The spontaneous seedlings grows better then al the others !
Did see the first flowers on different hederifoliums in the garden and also 1 mirabile starts to flower.
The season is almost there .... :D
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The spontaneous seedlings grows better then al the others !
How true Kris, the ant seem to know better where they should be planted. Here they come up in the lawn and under dwarf rhodos, so both alkaline and acid.
Long ago the garden was over-run with C. hederifoliums self-sown. The snowless dry winter of 1991 wiped most out. The Cyclamen purpurascens are much hardier, note the tubers sitting above ground.
johnw - getting much needed rain @ 18c.
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How true Kris, the ant seem to know better where they should be planted. Here they come up in the lawn and under dwarf rhodos, so both alkaline and acid.
Long ago the garden was over-run with C. hederifoliums self-sown. The snowless dry winter of 1991 wiped most out. The Cyclamen purpurascens are much hardier, note the tubers sitting above ground.
johnw - getting much needed rain @ 18c.
Hi John . Thanks for your comment and pictures . It help to get the mistake that's say that pupurascens is not hardy out of the world 8)
I was convinced that purpurascens is hardy a long time but it is even surprising that it is more hardy then good old hederifolium and the naked bulbs are also a bit of a surprise ....But we can learn from that ...
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Cyclamen purpurascens is the only one I've found to be hardy here in zone 3... and the corms push out of the ground here too. I've tried C. hederifolium and C. coum a few times with no over-wintering success at all.
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hello friends,
one of my very best with a fantastic smell
Cyclamen purpurascens
(http://www.bildercache.de/bild/20130815-173154-680.jpg)
and a surprise, just found at the "end of the garden" ;D
Cyclamen hederifolium 'White Cloud'
(http://www.bildercache.de/bild/20130815-173154-571.jpg)
enjoy
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Cyclamen purpurascens is the only one I've found to be hardy here in zone 3... and the corms push out of the ground here too. I've tried C. hederifolium and C. coum a few times with no over-wintering success at all.
Thanks for the information Lori . I always tought that hederifolium and coum are the most hardy. Here both give no problems but wintertemperatures goes not more then 15 degrees below zero ....
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hello friends,
one of my very best with a fantastic smell
Cyclamen purpurascens
(http://www.bildercache.de/bild/20130815-173154-680.jpg)
and a surprise, just found at the "end of the garden" ;D
Cyclamen hederifolium 'White Cloud'
(http://www.bildercache.de/bild/20130815-173154-571.jpg)
enjoy
Great to see such healthy and good flowering plants Dieter .
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Cyclamen hederifolium has started to flower here.
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Not sure why but my hederifolium in the garden don't seem to be as good this year, still, early days.
My first one of the season from the greenhouse, Cyclamen cilicium, a nice dark form given me by my friend Mike Quest.
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David, that is a lovely one!
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It is so Mark, and has a nice scent as well.
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Cyclamen graecum
The first one to flower here - bang on time.
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Not sure why but my hederifolium in the garden don't seem to be as good this year, still, early days.
My first one of the season from the greenhouse, Cyclamen cilicium, a nice dark form given me by my friend Mike Quest.
I like that one David . Nice flowers !
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Cyclamen graecum
The first one to flower here - bang on time.
Here they are far from flowering Gerry . With the constant heat of july and august they don'nt want to act yet .....
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Cyclamen hederifolium 'Stargazer' , he is on time ......
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Here they are far from flowering Gerry . With the constant heat of july and august they don'nt want to act yet .....
Mine not showing yet.
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No graecum flowers here yet but this africanum second generation from an Archibald plant - the foliage is also very striking but not showing yet. Also another colchicum raised from Cyclamen soc seed
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Nice plants Ian.
So far I have some hederifolium, intaminatum, africanum, africanum x hederifolium (?) purpurascens and colchicum in flower. The graecum, cyprium, mirabile and rohlfsianum and persicum are showing buds and leaves. Some C.coum have leaves. For some reason I don't have any C.cilicium in the greenhouse other than some seedlings.
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No graecum flowers here yet but this africanum second generation from an Archibald plant - the foliage is also very striking but not showing yet. Also another colchicum raised from Cyclamen soc seed
Good flowers Ian . Here C. hederifolium 'Stargazer ' keep going ..
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I'm a great lover of Cyclamen of all kinds but sorry Kris I can't form a lasting relationship with C. hederifolium 'Stargazer' :-[
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I'm a great lover of Cyclamen of all kinds but sorry Kris I can't form a lasting relationship with C. hederifolium 'Stargazer' :-[
No worries David ! :D
It's a remark I get used to ... And I agree , it's rather unusual then beautiful .........You know the story about the beauty and the beast ? Sometimes I have sympathy for the beast ........ ;D
It is certain that it had no chance to survive in the wild ! The upright flowers have no chance .....Flowers of Cyclamen are not constructed to be upright .So it is an artificial kind of plant rather then a natural one...
The good news is that only hederifolium produces such kind of artificial thing .
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Good flowers Ian . Here C. hederifolium 'Stargazer ' keep going ..
Kris, as an oddity "Stargazer" makes qute a statement.
Does it come true from seed? ;)
cheers
fermi
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From the greenhouse today Cyclamen mirabile.
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Kris, as an oddity "Stargazer" makes qute a statement.
Does it come true from seed? ;)
cheers
fermi
Hi Fermi , it seems that only a smal amount (less then 10 % ?) is 'Stargazer' again ........That's what Peter Moore from Tilebarn nursery always told me . Did never try . If you like , I sent you some seeds next spring .
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From the greenhouse today Cyclamen mirabile.
Beautiful David . The pattern looks a bit like 'Tilebarn Nicholas ' ...but no red when the leaves emmerge ?
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very nice David.
I've still got a mirabile tuber I bought in the 80s from Woolworth's as a dried tuber (as hederifolium). Begining to lose vigour now but still hanging on!
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I've still got a mirabile tuber I bought in the 80s from Woolworth's as a dried tuber (as hederifolium). Begining to lose vigour now but still hanging on!
I used to have three of those. Two died a long time ago and the third had been failing for some time. When I tipped it out a few days ago I found an empty shell :'( I have three of its offspring but they are not as vigorous or attractive as more recent selections
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well to be accurate I bought 4 c.hederifolium tubers. 2 turned out to be C.cilicium and probably lasted 10 yrs and the other 2 were mirabile. One was actually a very nice compact form that used to flower really well. It's been going downhill for a while but maybe it will turn around.
I have a C.purpurascens collected over 30 yrs ago, it's been in pots, planted out, in pots again, moved several times and actually that one has started to come back although I think it ended up in several peices. It's a particularly thick leaved half silver form. The flowers are not that great but it smells wonderful of course.
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This is a pot grown Cyclamen persicum grown from AGS Seedex a few years ago "ex Israel"
cheers
fermi
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Cyclamen graecum
Always the second one to flower here.
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I have had C. graecum since 2004 (grown from JJA seed) but it has never flowered for me. Any tips?
Erle
Anglesey where the winter growers are beginning to appear.
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Erle - I grow them in clay pots & keep the pots plunged in damp sand while dormant. Watering into the pots + the occasional high potash feed only starts when they are fully in growth. The pots are kept in a S-facing frame which gets quite hot in summer. I attach a photo of the plant posted above - which is about 20 years old - taken somewhat later in the season in 2012.
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C.graecum has fleshy roots that if you dry the pot out completely will die and set the plant back. But equally I've found plants that are kept cool and moist and so evergreen as Trevor Wiltshire suggests don't flower either.
The best ones I have are kept so the roots are just moist but the tuber itself is dry and kept warm in the summer.
Having said that I find cyclamen to be individual and some seedlings grow faster, flower better and some just sulk. Forever.
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I have a number of Cyclamen graecum from seed from CSE plants sown in 2003 and 2004. They were doing really well and three had 12 to 15 flowers in October 2010. I was hobbling around on crutches at the time so did not get many pics. They got frozen that winter. I lost a few, mainly the bigger tubers but was surprised how many survived. It has taken them a long time to recover but they look very promising now with lots of flower buds showing. I was given advice to scrape off the top dressing to expose the tops of the tubers and water them occasionally from the bottom. They are in the hottest, sunniest corner of the greenhouse. I don't have a plunge so the roots must have got quite hot at times. It is also the coldest spot in winter.
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I paid a fleeting visit to the Cruickshank Botanic Garden early yesterday evening. I see the Cyclamen rohlfsianum collected in Libya in 1952 and their offspring are still alive and well.
This was taken through the glass so not as clear as it might be.
The plant front right is C. rohlfsianum and the one back right. I'm not sure about the one in between. The one in the centre with a single darker coloured flower is also rohlfsianum.
Right in front with two flowers and a couple of leaves appears to be a seedling growing in the plunge :)
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Thanks for those replies. My plants have been probably too dry but not warm enough in the summer. I will make a special effort next year to follow the advice and see what happens.
Erle
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here's an oddity. Came to me as a purpurascens Riva x Bled (oddly I've been to both locations and collected a few C.purpurascens back in the 70s). It's a pewter/ silver - leaves looking rather poor at the momnet though new ones are coming through. It's white ish with a pink nose. Third year flowering like this so it's not some odd one off.
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really interesting color form, Mark :)
:)
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The Cyclamen hederifolium in the gravel in front of the house are better than ever this year
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My best Cyclamen mirabile
and my first Cyclamen graecum flower since 2010
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lovely mirabile! Looks like I'll be getting some flowers on my graecum..they've taken a few years off because I moved them somewhere they didn't like but hopefully that's behind us now!
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My best Cyclamen mirabile
and my first Cyclamen graecum flower since 2010
Great C. mirabile Roma ! The graecum has nice leaves too !
Here the buds of C. graecum start to grow fast now ........
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The Cyclamen hederifolium in the gravel in front of the house are better than ever this year
Stunning those Cyclamen in gravel-conditions Roma.
Here C.hederifolium was better in previous year .....
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here's an oddity. Came to me as a purpurascens Riva x Bled (oddly I've been to both locations and collected a few C.purpurascens back in the 70s). It's a pewter/ silver - leaves looking rather poor at the momnet though new ones are coming through. It's white ish with a pink nose. Third year flowering like this so it's not some odd one off.
Indeed very special colour Mark . It looks like purperascens is one of the few Cyclamen with such variations in the flowers ...
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Look what I found hiding under the bench in the greenhouse: Cyclamen graecum f. album, from seed I got from Ulrich Urban several years ago.
[attach=1]
Now this one is sitting on top of the bench.
Jim
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that;'s a nice find Jim. I found an escaped pink C. intaminatum seedling in my frame the other day.
Here are another two curiousities.
One came to me as C. africanum album. I'd never heard of a pure white form in this species. For some reason I thought the seed had come from Sheila Northway via the AGS so I didn't dismiss it immediately as a mistake. I need to remember to look at the leaves when they come out.
The other is supposed to be C. africanum x hederifolium - again, how would you distinguish this from one or other of the parents?
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We've got a plant that is from seed from one of Sandy Leven's medal-winning large C. africanum plants - we think it is an africanum x hederifolium ............... because it has survived outside for several years ::)
I'll see if I can get a photo tomorrow.
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Maggi, I'm familiar with the "if it dies outside then it's africanum" test. Not so keen on trying that method though!
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Maggi, I'm familiar with the "if it dies outside then it's africanum" test. Not so keen on trying that method though!
I have a sort of "if it survives the summer in the greenhouse, it's africanum" test! Over the years, only graecum and africanum have consistently survived the summers in an otherwise-empty, dry, and often 125 F greenhouse.
I now have shelves in my basement for Cyclamen and for Nerine sarniensis hybrids in summer.
Jim
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I now have shelves in my basement for Cyclamen and for Nerine sarniensis hybrids in summer. Jim
Jim - We have similar storage shelves in the cool garage. There has been some discussion whether or not the nerines would be best kept dormant in sun, along with an ocassional watering. Thoughts?
The best we've ever done with Cyclamen was when we grew them in clay pots and sunk them in damp sand the summer long. The roots were fantastic as was the bud set and earlier onset of flowering. As you say graecum & africanum were the two that we didn't need or want the plunge. As the pots got bigger so did the depth of the plunge and we felt disaster was imminent - collapsing bench.....so we took the lazy way out.
johnw
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All this with Cyclamen and N. sarniensis was originally done maybe 10 years ago. I tried leaving all my Cyclamen and the sarniensis in the greenhouse through summer -- a small glass house cooled only with a 15-inch exhaust fan and a bit of shading compound painted on the outside. Most of the sarniensis survived one summer, but I probably should have watered them more. No flowers as far as I can recall.
Half the Cyclamen died, as I recall.
The following couple of summers I tried putting all these things under a bench outdoors in the lath house. We had lots of rain. Most of the rest of the Cyclamen rotted, and a few of the Nerine rotted; so this was another unsuccessful experiment.
They all (well, those that survived) have been going into the basement for the last several years. Now that I have a much larger greenhouse, with a massive set of cooling exhaust fans at one end and a large swamp cooling pad at the other, I guess I could try some of these plants in there over summer. This large greenhouse is also permanently shaded with shade cloth inside at eave-level. Come to think of it, this sounds like a fairly plausible place to try summering such things.
Let's see if I can remember to try some of them (not the africanum or graecum!) in the big, cooled, greenhouse next summer. I can limit the maximum temperatures in there in summer to 90 F or even to 85 F if I want.
Jim
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wonderful pictures from all,
here Cyclamen colchicum, first time with some more flowers
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and a large swamp cooling pad at the other,
Jim - Tell me more. ???
johnw
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Nice colchicum, Udo.
I find the scent isn't quite as powerful as C.purpurascens but then I only have one clone I think despite getting plants / seeds from different people.
I found I have my first seedlings up! I sowed some C.persicum ex a plant from J&J Archibald from Rhodes which is more compact than most forms. Sadly it's a bit of a pig to grow. I have a few persicum like that. Others grow literally like weeds.
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Jim - Tell me more. ???
johnw
John,
I think I need to take some pictures. The greenhouse is 28 ft x 96 ft. There are 3 large (40 inch diameter) fans blowing air out of the greenhouse at one end and a 4 ft high by 24 ft long pad at the other over which water runs when in maximum cooling mode. Even on a humid day here, there is significant cooling from this system. It is now about 8 years old, and everything is breaking/needing to be replaced. We are about 2/3 of the way through that process. (Maybe I should take up a collection? ;))
Jim
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Some superb plants! :o
Thanks for sharing the pictures to all!
Summer seems to be over, here always the first - Cyclamen graecum 'Album' (or f. album ?)
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... - Cyclamen graecum 'Album' (or f. album ?)
That's a good question. What is the proper term for this plant?
Jim
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In this article on C. graecum, Sandy Leven calls his plant C. graecum album : http://www.srgc.org.uk/monthfeature/nov2004/content.html (http://www.srgc.org.uk/monthfeature/nov2004/content.html) but I think it is more correctly C. graecum forma album
The Cyclamen Society has it so : http://www.cyclamen.org/graecum_set.html (http://www.cyclamen.org/graecum_set.html)
as does the PBS :
http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/CyclamenSpeciesTwo (http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/CyclamenSpeciesTwo)
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Some unusual flowers on this C. hederifolium . This happens each 2 or 3 years with this plant
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Kris - I just longs to be a snowdrop. ;)
johnw
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;D ;D
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Kris - I just longs to be a snowdrop. ;)
johnw
I dared not to say John ....... ;) Don't want to chock the galanthophiles with something that looks even better ;D ;D ;D
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Cyclamen hederifolium still doing well
One of my favourite potted Cyclamen hederifolium - I like the elegant shape of the flowers
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Cyclamen rohlfsianum on an upstairs bedroom windowsill
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Cyclamen mirabile keeps getting better
An odd flower
Cyclamen graecum
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I'm always fascinated by the Cyclamen mirabile leaves !! This is "Tilebarn Nicholas"
][attach=1]
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Lovely rolfsianum Roma. I used to have problems getting them to flower at all - I think I'd under water and the buds would abort at this time of year - now I water more but often the leaves are over the flowers - do you have a way of geting around that?
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Mark, I usually do not water till I see the first flowers appearing, then I water round the edge of the pot about once a week. We do not use the upstairs rooms and the windowsills are filled with plants mainly succulents and orchids so there is a fair bit of neglect. I find the C. rohlfsianum produces one lot of flowers then another lot with longer stems and the leaves come up with the second lot of flowers and soon overtop them. The light is fairly good as the Velux windows are in the slope of the roof so the plants get light from the top and a good bit of sun at this time of year but none later when the sun gets lower in the sky.
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Cyclamen graecum ssp. anatolicum near Kemer, pictured on last Monday. The first flowers in a sunburned landscape...
I have beeen told, that there was no rain since May!
September is a good month for a summer holiday in Turkey , but for flowers a month later would be better - my family did not listen to my arguments!
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Roma, thanks for the advice. In theory I have enough tubers to try different techniques so I'll see if can go for something like youur watering regieme.
Herbert, nice pics. In Greece I found some plants with leaves but they were in ditches or culverts 9is that the right word?)
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Herbert - It is arguable that C. graecum subsp. anatolicum does not exist. See the Cyclamen Society website:
http://www.cyclamen.org/graecum_set.html (http://www.cyclamen.org/graecum_set.html)
I have three plants derived from seed collected on Monte Smith, Rhodes; although they have similar leaves the flowers are very different.
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Herbert - It is arguable that C. graecum subsp. anatolicum does not exist. See the Cyclamen Society website:
Gerry - as you're probably aware, the Cyclamen Society website is getting a little dated although I know there have been discussions about updating it. The new Cyclamen book (Genus Cyclamen in Science, Cultivation, Art and Culture) does recognise the three subspecies noting the distribution of subsp. anatolicum as southern and south-west Turkey in the provinces of Antalya, Mugla and Icel; Rhodes and possibly some of the other East Aegean islands; and northern Cyprus. It does point out that the distinguishing flower and leaf characteristics listed in the Key to the subspecies are to some extent overlapping and that "knowledge of the origin is helpful when attempting to confirm the identity of a particular plant". I'll have to get my eye in and try to spot the different subspecies at the Cyclamen Society show this Sunday! I saw in a previous post that your graecum plants are well into flowering - mine are barely poking through the gravel. Although I don't plunge and I was a bit late giving them their first watering. Or perhaps it was the warm summer extending their usual dormancy?
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Many thanks Steve. As I noted I have 3 plants obtained as subsp. anatolicum ( 2 from Peter Moore & 1 from Pat Nichols) all supposedly from the same population in Rhodes. They are similar in leaf pattern - though not in colour - but differ markedly in flower shape. Hence my sceptical view of the supposed subspecies. How are they to be distinguished?
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Here are the three forms:
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Great flowering plants Kris, Roma and Gerry!
In this article on C. graecum, Sandy Leven calls his plant C. graecum album : http://www.srgc.org.uk/monthfeature/nov2004/content.html (http://www.srgc.org.uk/monthfeature/nov2004/content.html) but I think it is more correctly C. graecum forma album
The Cyclamen Society has it so : http://www.cyclamen.org/graecum_set.html (http://www.cyclamen.org/graecum_set.html)
as does the PBS :
http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/CyclamenSpeciesTwo (http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/CyclamenSpeciesTwo)
Thanks Maggi - I wondered about the name because as I know white Cyclamen graecum are very rare in nature and do not know if there exist population of white flowering plants while those in culture seem to belong all to a true breeding white strain. ::)
Here a few flowering seedlingpots - C.rohlfsianum, C. hederifolium and C. graecum album. I remembered especially C. rohlfsianum as slow growing species so I was suprised to see flowers in this seedling pot, sown in november 2010.
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Thanks Maggi - I wondered about the name because as I know white Cyclamen graecum are very rare in nature and do not know if there exist population of white flowering plants while those in culture seem to belong all to a true breeding white strain. ::)
We never find white graecums in the wild Hans (in something like twelve visits )
Here a few flowering seedlingpots - C.rohlfsianum, I remembered especially C. rohlfsianum as slow growing species so I was suprised to see flowers in this seedling pot, sown in november 2010.
That's surprise me too Hans . Never heard of flowering three year old rohlfsianum ! Nice surprise anyway . Maybe it is in the gen of this plant ?
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My experience is that cyclamen seedlings vary hugely in vigour and speed to flowering. I think I had a C.colchicum flower in 18 months and it was supposedly the slowest to flower from seed.
C.rolhfsianum I find I have a lot of slow growing seedlings and a couple of really fast growing ones.
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Many thanks Steve. As I noted I have 3 plants obtained as subsp. anatolicum ( 2 from Peter Moore & 1 from Pat Nichols) all supposedly from the same population in Rhodes. They are similar in leaf pattern - though not in colour - but differ markedly in flower shape. Hence my sceptical view of the supposed subspecies. How are they to be distinguished?
Gerry - I had a quick look at the Peter Moore/Melvyn Jope Cyclamen of Greece book for clarification and, to save time writing it out, I've posted a couple of (poor) photos of the relevant pages. Of course, Melvyn is a fellow forumist so I hope he doesn't mind :). Any help with ID?
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The newly emerging leaf of Cyclamen rohlfsianum attracts my attention every year !!!
[attachimg=1]
[attachimg=2]
[attachimg=3]
The first flowers are'nt bad either !
[attachimg=4]
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Gerry - I had a quick look at the Peter Moore/Melvyn Jope Cyclamen of Greece book for clarification and, to save time writing it out, I've posted a couple of (poor) photos of the relevant pages. Of course, Melvyn is a fellow forumist so I hope he doesn't mind :). Any help with ID?
Thanks for this Steve. I presume, though I am by no means certain, that my plants came from the Cyclamen Soc. seed collection on Monte Smith. I hope Melvyn turns up to clarify matters.
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The SRGC is pleased to have very happy relations with the Cyclamen Society -we are delighted that so many of its luminaries are members here 8)
Peter Moore/Melvyn Jope Cyclamen of Greece , Publ. Cyclamen Society 2011
you can buy it for only £4.00 : http://www.cyclamen.org/publications.htm (http://www.cyclamen.org/publications.htm)
[attach=1]
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The SRGC is pleased to have very happy relations with the Cyclamen Society -we are delighted that so many of its luminaries are members here 8)
Peter Moore/Melvyn Jope Cyclamen of Greece , Publ. Cyclamen Society 2011
you can buy it for only £4.00 : http://www.cyclamen.org/publications.htm (http://www.cyclamen.org/publications.htm)
(Attachment Link)
Good to mention it here Maggi. As a member of the CS I bought it immediately and I have no regrets .It's worth to have it ! Melvyn and Peter have done a good job on the research of our dear Cyclamen .
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This Cyclamen hederifolium is almost at his best outside in the garden .
Inside some C. mirabile are doing wel
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Cyclamen graecum is on his way . Here the season is later as previous year ......
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Luc , superb photos of your C rohlfsianum
a photo of my most floriferous tuber of C. rhodium ssp. peleponnesiacum in flower at the moment in my garden . It self sows abundently as does C. libanoticum and repandum etc.
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.... a photo of my most floriferous tuber of C. rhodium ssp. peleponnesiacum in flower at the moment in my garden . It self sows abundantly as does C. libanoticum and repandum etc.
I am trying hard not to be jealous...... :-X
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I am trying hard not to be jealous...... :-X
I don't even try, Maggi !
What a super clump Otto !! :o :o
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Cyclamen graecum
From seed collected in the Peloponnese & given to me by Ronald & Erna Frank.
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Nice colour!
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A cyclamen flowering in the greenhouse. The hand written label is now lost. Only one leaf showing
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Mark, Cyclamen hederifolium I would say.
Gerry, beautiful colour on your plant.
Most of my Cyclamen collection are of small seed raised plants in their first or second flowering year and any larger plants I have have all been given to me by my friend Mike Quest. Here's one, Cyclamen graecum, from Mike that he raised from Cyclamen Society seed CSE 93643, lovely scent too. Seems to have quite "twisty" petals and I haven't read that this is a graecum charcteristic.
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I'd say Mark's plant is cilicium.
Nice graecum, David. I have a few from CSE seed and all have good leaves. Only one flowering so far this year.
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I'd say Mark's plant is cilicium.
I agree with Roma, although I'd like to see the leaves when they come out, to rule out mirabile, although the flowers of this usually have snipped edges.
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I agree with Roma, although I'd like to see the leaves when they come out, to rule out mirabile, although the flowers of this usually have snipped edges.
Was thinking that it could be both mirabile or cilicium . But my preference go to cilicium too .
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Seems to have quite "twisty" petals and I haven't read that this is a graecum charcteristic.
I always like the ones with the twisted flowers David ! Beautiful !
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One of these days I'll get one right ;D
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Was thinking that it could be both mirabile or cilicium . But my preference go to cilicium too .
My vote's for cilicium also. Mark - is there a scent, and does it remind you of honey or coconut?!
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A Forumist on the NARGS Forum is trying to find information on the history of Cyclamen hederifolium "Ian White" form, a rather nice white hederifolium. None of my literature gives any information, can anyone help please and I'll pass it on?
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I received two leaflets from the Cyclamen Society (Greece and Turkey) and studied them with great interest.
What makes me confused are the differences and the distribution of Cyc. confusum and Cyc. crassifolium. Any advice on this matter?
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Hello Pauli, we can be certain about the distribution of Cyclamen confusum because we know that its distribution is limited to western Crete ( at least as far as we know at the moment!)
The subject of the distribution of Cyclamen hederifolium subspecies var crassifolium is not clear to us at the moment and will be the subject of further Cyclamen Society field studies, hopefully starting this year. What we do know is that the subspecies is found in some parts of the Peloponnese and Greek islands like Poros and other locations like Sicily.
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Thanks for this clarification. I was confused, because Grey-Wilson (Bulbs of Greece) lists both for Peloponnes.
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here's a C.graecum from JJA seed - actually it's one of Melvyn Jope's collections. very nice, I have I think four or five plants still from the seed sowing, I have another one similar to this one, the others are more sage green/ green mixes.
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That is a beauty Mark.
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A Forumist on the NARGS Forum is trying to find information on the history of Cyclamen hederifolium "Ian White" form, a rather nice white hederifolium. None of my literature gives any information, can anyone help please and I'll pass it on?
Ian White was an active member of the Cyclamen Society about 30 years ago, he shared time on his passion for cyclamen with cycling and eventually cycling took all his spare time I still grow Ian's selection but don't have any photos, it was selected for its long arrow shaped leaf with very good markings and has white flowers
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Many thanks Steve. As I noted I have 3 plants obtained as subsp. anatolicum ( 2 from Peter Moore & 1 from Pat Nichols) all supposedly from the same population in Rhodes. They are similar in leaf pattern - though not in colour - but differ markedly in flower shape. Hence my sceptical view of the supposed subspecies. How are they to be distinguished?
Gerry I am not sure that you will find my response on Cyclamen graecum subspecies anatolicum very helpful and it is very much a personal view based on plants observed in Greece.
When Peter and I considered the Greek species in our booklet we decided to go with the latest thinking on nomenclature. Whilst one can follow the geographic location description re Monte Smith plants and use the name C. g. subsp anatolicum I think the plants are very variable on this site.If you observe plants at the top of the escarpment they are very different from those growing under the trees on the lower part of the site. If Peter and Pat say the plants originated from that source that would be good enough for me as they are both very experienced growers of Cyclamen graecum and can certainly get the plants to flower much better than I can. I believe you can see some plants in cultivation and make a considered guess that the plants have originated from Monte Smith but if you don't know the source of the plant I believe it's impossible to say from any part of the plant whether it is C. graecum subspecies anatolicum or C. graecum subspecies graecum. So I would be inclined to lump them together just as C.graecum . Having said that I do think C.graecum subspecies candicum is rather different in both leaf and flower.
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Melvyn - thanks for this. It's interesting to hear that plants from Monte Smith are very variable - my 3 plants are certainly variable in flower morphology. Moreover, of the two plants which are in flower at the moment (the third is always much later), one is strongly scented while the other seems to be devoid of scent. None of my other plants of C. graecum has any scent that I can detect.
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Ian White was an active member of the Cyclamen Society about 30 years ago, he shared time on his passion for cyclamen with cycling and eventually cycling took all his spare time I still grow Ian's selection but don't have any photos, it was selected for its long arrow shaped leaf with very good markings and has white flowers
Many thanks for that Melvyn, I'll pass it on.
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Here today my oldest Cyclamen graecum from the Cyclamen Society 1985 seedex.
johnw
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A venerable pensioner! The tuber I mean John, not you ;D
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Cyclamen graecum f. album
Derived from the original introduction by Ronald & Erna Frank (1980)
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Another venerable one. The plant I mean, not you Gerry. That's not to say that you're not venerable Gerry. Give up digging David, you're going to bury yourself! ::) :-X
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Ian White was an active member of the Cyclamen Society about 30 years ago, he shared time on his passion for cyclamen with cycling and eventually cycling took all his spare time I still grow Ian's selection but don't have any photos, it was selected for its long arrow shaped leaf with very good markings and has white flowers
Melvyn, the USA based grower of the plant in question grew her plant from seed and I've pointed out that it can't be called "Ian White form" but here are her pics of the flowers and the leaves and I wondered if you would give an opinion please as to how close they are to the original plant.
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David, the pattern on the leaf looks about right at this stage but as the leaves look immature it would be easier to make a judgement when they are fully developed. When the leaves on my plant are fully developed I will post a picture for comparison.
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Melvyn, many thanks for that.
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Another venerable one. The plant I mean, not you Gerry. That's not to say that you're not venerable Gerry. Give up digging David, you're going to bury yourself! ::) :-X
We are both venerable David - elder statesmen in fact (not the plants)
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I remember seeing the original Glyfada (sp?). Apparently part of the tuber had rotted and they used a pressure hose to remove those parts.
Here are some intaminatum. The "pinkish" one turned up I think in the plunge and was always a mystery because appart from the fairly reliable plain leaves white one the only other plants I had were tiny patterend leaved white ones that never did much - so where this vigourous pinking, pattern leaved one came from I didn't know. Curiously this year I found it had produced a seedling, again in the plunge.
The white ones are the "common" unpatterned leaf form. I put some seedlings out in a trough which has a 39 yo D. arbuscula in it.
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Now I know The Cyclamen Society Web Site isn't the most upto date site in the world but can anyone tell me please if the Jill White, based in Essex, (and included on the Society's "Sources of Plants and Seeds" page) is still in business?
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David, I don't know. She used to advertise in the Cyclamen Society bulletin but I can't see any ad in the last one.
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Melvyn, the USA based grower of the plant in question grew her plant from seed.....
Hello David and Melvyn,
I am the USA based grower (aka forumist on NARGS) and thank you very much for the help with my seed grown Cyclamen hederifolium ex "Ian White form". I will post another photo of the leaves when they are more fully developed. ;D
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can anyone tell me please if the Jill White, based in Essex, (and included on the Society's "Sources of Plants and Seeds" page) is still in business?
I don't know the answer to your question David, but the listing for Jill White here http://www.thegardeningwebsite.co.uk/jill-white-speciality-cyclamen-species-i469.html (http://www.thegardeningwebsite.co.uk/jill-white-speciality-cyclamen-species-i469.html) includes her telephone number.
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Hello David and Melvyn,
I am the USA based grower (aka forumist on NARGS) and thank you very much for the help with my seed grown Cyclamen hederifolium ex "Ian White form". I will post another photo of the leaves when they are more fully developed. ;D
Ah Julie, 'tis a very small world ;D
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I don't know the answer to your question David, but the listing for Jill White here http://www.thegardeningwebsite.co.uk/jill-white-speciality-cyclamen-species-i469.html (http://www.thegardeningwebsite.co.uk/jill-white-speciality-cyclamen-species-i469.html) includes her telephone number.
Many thanks for that Alan but if there is anyone who can let me know if Jill White is still in business and if not I need not contact her by phone.
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Here's Cyclamen cyprium (ex 'ES') from seed (kindly sent to me by Tony Willis in 2009) sown October 2009 and flowering for the first time. I don't have 'ES' proper so can't say how close mine is to the original. Maybe others have it. Lovely scented form too.
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A few shots of cyclamen leaves in the greenhouse today: purpurascens, rohlfsianum, coum, graecum.
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A few shots of cyclamen leaves in the greenhouse today: purpurascens, rohlfsianum, coum, graecum.
And every one of them pristine!
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David, I think not all ES are the same.
The picture on the Cyclamen society site is like this
http://www.cyclamen.org/cyprium_set.html (http://www.cyclamen.org/cyprium_set.html)
the picture on my site is this
http://markgriffiths.org/inspiringplants/cyclamen/images/cycamen_cyprium_es_leaves_jan2006.jpg (http://markgriffiths.org/inspiringplants/cyclamen/images/cycamen_cyprium_es_leaves_jan2006.jpg)
this was derived from a plant I got from Peter Moore - the diference as far as I know is that it has leaf spotting, streaks in cream rather than the normal pattern.
Yours seems to be intermediate.
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Very nice Steve, how are you growing the purpurascens? Frame or greenhouse or something else? How much sun?
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And every one of them pristine!
Thanks, Maggi, but you should see the ones I choose not photograph!
Mark - my best purpurascens plants and seedlings stay in the shaded part of the greenhouse most of the year, although they can take more of the autumn/winter/spring sun if the surrounding air isn't too warm. But they really resent it when the greenhouse heats up on sunny days. I don't plunge, so can move the pots around - outside or on the floor/under the staging - on sunny days in spring . Between June and August, while they could go outside in a sheltered, part-shaded spot (and all my garden pests are forming an orderly queue as I type), I move them into a cooler shed which has a window and some light from above. They seem OK and don't etiolate too much so they do get sufficient light, I think. They also need moist compost year-round. I was away for three weeks this summer and stood the pots on capillary matting resting on a water reservoir tray and that worked well - no casualties anyway!
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Some more leaves...
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Flowering plants of cilicium, intaminatum, mirabile, purpurascens and rohlfsianum.
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:o Steve :o
I agree completely with Maggi. Stunning perfection every single one!
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I agree too. Do you show your plants Steve?
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A fantastic collection Steve !! :o :o :o
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Many thanks, all, for the kind comments.
David - I started exhibiting at Cyclamen Society shows about two years ago - a bit daunting to start with given the quality of the plants on the show benches; there's some very good growers in the Society! But it's good fun and I'm starting to have some success. In fact at the Birmingham show last week two of the purpurascens were winners in the large and small pot foliage classes (photo 1 and photo 6 respectively) with the larger plant of the two also taking best foliage plant in the show. It's the Wisley autumn show soon and looking forward to seeing the graecums in all their glory. As an aside, it's frustrating to see that this show clashes with the Ponteland show, and next year the Cyclamen spring show clashes with Hexham!
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Here's Cyclamen cyprium (ex 'ES') from seed (kindly sent to me by Tony Willis in 2009) sown October 2009 and flowering for the first time. I don't have 'ES' proper so can't say how close mine is to the original. Maybe others have it. Lovely scented form too.
David - here's one, also from 'ES' seed. On mine, I don't think there's enough, attractive silvery markings for it to qualify as 'ES'. Perhaps 'ES'-ish (and that's not easy to say after a couple of glasses)...
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Having said I'm looking forward to seeing the graecums at the Wisley autumn show, mine are quite late this year. Photo 1 is the earliest plant to flower. Photo 2 is more indicative of how far advanced most of them are. Although it's all academic in terms of the Wisley show - there's always some seriously large and floriferous graecums on the show bench so I won't be troubling the judges in those classes!
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Couldn't resist a photo of some of my seedlings in the frame. There are cilicium, cilicium album, intaminatum pink and white,hederifolium, confusum and the odd graecum flower
Also intaminatum in the garden
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nice intaminatum Ian. It's amazing how different pink cyclamen look when there is no nose blotch
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nice intaminatum Ian. It's amazing how different pink cyclamen look when there is no nose blotch
Thanks Mark I'm surprised how well it's doing in he garden.
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I suspect as long as it is one of the more robust forms intaminuatum is as easy as C.cilicium outside. It's steadily increased and seeded in a trough here for 20 or so years. I posted pics a few pages back.
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Fabulous Cyclamen everyone
My lost label is C. cilicium but haven't noticed any scent. This is the leaf
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Wow, so many great plants! I love autumn. :)
Here some pics from the garden.
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Hans, lovely to see these growing in the open ground, especially the rohlfsianum
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Hans, lovely to see these growing in the open ground, especially the rohlfsianum
I agree and I think that I definitely need some tuition in flowering rohlfsianum - not a single flower this year
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I agree and I think that I definitely need some tuition in flowering rohlfsianum - not a single flower this year
Ian - that's normally the case for me, too, but I've got quite a few flowers on mine this year. I normally grow them on an east-facing windowsill (which probably doesn't help!); the difference this year is that they were all repotted into slightly larger pots and moved into a sunny spot in the greenhouse over the summer so perhaps that's why they've repaid me with more flowers? I think I'll bring them back indoors over winter, though...
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I keep mine in the greenhouse all year round but I try to keep the greenhouse above 5C (not that I think I always suceed). I find that plants are very individual, some seem to mark time and not flower, others grow rapidly. I don't find much variation in the seedlings from a pod so I think it's a question of finding a strain that works for you.
This relatively light green leaved one is one I find most vigorous here.
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Steve and Mark thanks the recipe I have been given is to give them a hot and dry summer under glass and water in mid August so I will give it a try
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Hi Steve...There are two collected Cyclamen rohlfsianum plants at the Cruickshank Botanic Gardens and two of their offspring... I'm glad to hear someone is still growing plants from that seed... Is there variation in your C. rohlfsianums?
Hi Roma - now that they're flowering, here's a couple of shots of some of my rohlfsianums - all progeny of the Cruickshank plants apart from the darker-flowered one at the bottom right. They're doing all right for me this year...so far.
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A happy outcome. For many years I grew Cyclamen graecum in a greenhouse raised bed, they flowered superbly there. In January 2012 we removed the greenhouse and I expected that the cyclamen would go into decline. Here they are, flowering almost as good as ever, two summers and one hard winter later :-)
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Nice Tony. I had expected the odd flower this year from my 2008 graecum sowings, in pots in the greenhouse, all of them are in good leaf but not a single flower. Maybe next year I'll crack it.
One that is in flower Cyclamen mirabile forma niveum, from ex 'Tilebarn Jan' seed sown August 2009. The snail that dared to leave a trail over my leaf is no more!
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A happy outcome. For many years I grew Cyclamen graecum in a greenhouse raised bed, they flowered superbly there. In January 2012 we removed the greenhouse and I expected that the cyclamen would go into decline. Here they are, flowering almost as good as ever, two summers and one hard winter later :-)
Tony - very nice, the group effect is really pleasing.
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Cyclamen mirabile foliage.
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Cyclamen mirabile foliage.
Now that is really PINK!
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Lovely leaves Michael. Maybe seed from 'Tilebarn Nicholas'?
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Nice Tony. I had expected the odd flower this year from my 2008 graecum sowings, in pots in the greenhouse, all of them are in good leaf but not a single flower. Maybe next year I'll crack it.
Summer heat is the key I think but don't over-dry them. I have one in the greenhouse this year now in nice flower. It's been in the same tray as some of my seedling alpines, so regular watering all summer. I pulled the last of the old leaves off yesterday, it was still green!
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Nice white mirabile David and what a hot pink Michael.
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Thanks for all kind comments! Every time I have a look here there are more fabulous pictures !
Hans, lovely to see these growing in the open ground, especially the rohlfsianum
Sometimes they seem to prefer on the ground! ;)
Have not seen C. graecum in the wild I wonder if ssp. anatolicum forms larger corms than the other ssp?
Here some more pics. First a C. rohlfsianum - it is not the only one who has the corm "on" the ground (not planted this way); some C. graecum anatolicum, one C. graecum anatolicum; C. graecum with very small leaves (apologies for bad picture).
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Cyclamen mirabile foliage.
The understatement of the season. :o
johnw
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All the labels on the notable ones say ex M. Jope.
Cyclamen hederifolium dwarf white or should I say shortest petioled
Cyclamen hederifolium unusual clear pink in a shade I have never seen before, a pure red nose. Colour not captured very well at all but if you know the Magnolia 'Daybreak' that's the coleur.
Luckily on the weekend I spied this in a flat to go to the sale!
johnw
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All the labels on the notable ones say ex M. Jope.
Yeah, there's often a clue..........;D
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Some interesting Cyclamen at the SRGC Discussion Weekend
A very nice pink Cyclamen intaminatum
Jean Wyllie's Cyclamen colchicum - I wish mine would flower like that - I got one flower before the old leaves died from 7 plants
Another of Jean's exhibits - a lovely pot of pink Cyclamen intaminatum in a raised from seed class
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some of my colchicum are a bit sparse leaved at the moment but are in full bloom.
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Cyclamen mirabile 'Tilebarn Nicholas ' .
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Some graecums ...
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A new one in the collection ......C. purpurascens 'Alba'
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Some hederifoliums in the garden ...
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Cyclamen rohlfsianum .
[attachimg=1]
[attachimg=2]
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love the purpurascens album, Kris. Looks vigorous, did you grow it from seed or buy the tuber?
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love the purpurascens album, Kris. Looks vigorous, did you grow it from seed or buy the tuber?
Buy the plant Mark . Robin White had one to sel in Kent .
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The edges of the emerging leafs of this graecum are dark red . Difficult to show on a picture ....It is striking. [attachimg=1]
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Buy the plant Mark . Robin White had one to sel in Kent .
Lucky b.... :-X :-X ;) ;D
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Lucky b.... :-X :-X ;) ;D
You didn't see him Luc ? ;D ::) :-X ;)
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The edges of the emerging leafs of this graecum are dark red . Difficult to show on a picture ....It is striking.
That is striking, Kris.
Is it one you've grown from seed?
cheers
fermi
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That is striking, Kris.
Is it one you've grown from seed?
cheers
fermi
Thanks Fermi , from seed that I collected in Crete on Rodopou peninsulae ...We have been 7 times in Crete and on some occasions I collect few seedpods from good leafforms ...
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The edges of the emerging leafs of this graecum are dark red . Difficult to show on a picture ....It is striking. (Attachment Link)
It certainly is striking Chris, a lovely plant.
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At this time of year, I develop the stoop of a galanthophile - except peering at all the different leaves on the cyclamen. I could waste many a happy hour doing that! How many other hardy plants give so much variation in a single species?
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At this time of year, I develop the stoop of a galanthophile - except peering at all the different leaves on the cyclamen. I could waste many a happy hour doing that! How many other hardy plants give so much variation in a single species?
Precious few, Anne - and obligingly the cyclamen do it over such a long period
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A few images of Cyclamen colchicum flowers showing variation in shape and depth of colour of flowers. C.colchicum 3 has an unusual and distinct bicoloured flower despite the fact that the flower photographed is a bit tired
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I had a lovely day at the Cyclamen Society show at Wisley last Saturday. Saw some forum galanthus friends and some keen cyclamen friends :D
There were some great dark purple flowered hederifolium and coum plants both on the showbench and for sale although you had to be quick for the darkest colours didn't you John ;)
I said I'd post a photo for Melvin of his Trophy winning C. rholfsianum, but I did also say I'd go back and take a better picture that was in focus. Silly me I forgot so here is a slightly off shot of it
I'll resize a few more pics and post again later.
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Hello! :) I've just become a member of SRGC forum - nice to meet you guys! I'm originally from Japan, but I've been living in the UK for 20 years now.
I also went to the CS autumn show at Wisley last Saturday and it was fantastic! Here are some pictures I took on that day (sorry - this is cross-posting at Grows On You)
The last one was my favourite on that day - it was CSE hederifolium, but the colour was very close to red. I asked Mr.Bravenboer of Green Ice Nursery if the plant's available in the market. He told me that it was a seedling from seeds which were collected from somewhere Turkey (or Cyprus? - sorry I forget) and not available commercially......
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Welcome Naoto - thanks for these photos - some really special plants on show there.
Jo, the foliage on Melvyn's C. rohlfsianum is fantastic .
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Hi Naoto, I must have seen you at the show. Great pictures, I was using a small digital camera and being used to an SLR I'm afraid my pictures are very poor.
I don't know what I was thinking this morning talking about Cyclamen coum. They aren't in season, but I did by seed from Jan B. of C coum, silver leaf + extreme dark purple flower that must have been on my mind :D
Here are a few more cyclamen pics. The first is a rholfsianum here which has enormous leaves but very few flowers so I guess doesn't get enough light. Then a really beautifully marked C mirabile, I seem to remember it being a Cyc. Soc. expedition collection seedling. I've never seen a leaf like it.
The red hederifolium is so unlike all other reds that it really stands out though I'm not sure that it is actually a nice colour. Then the intaminatum had really big flowers almost like a cilicium, nice :) And finally a great graecum, loads of flowers and beautiful flowers.
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Some lovely plants at the Cyclamen Society Show. Thank you Jo and Naoto for sharing them with us. I'd like to get there one day.
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My Cyclamen rohlfsianum get plenty of light in the summer and flower well but as the sun gets lower in the sky it does not strike the plants and the leaves get very leggy.
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Some Cyclamen leaves
The first two are old Wye College small flowered persicum hybrids. They both have white flowers.
The other three are Cyclamen colchicum. I have 7 plants in 5 pots grown from Cyclamen Society seed in 2007 and 2009
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The last one was my favourite on that day - it was CSE hederifolium, but the colour was very close to red. I asked Mr.Bravenboer of Green Ice Nursery if the plant's available in the market. He told me that it was a seedling from seeds which were collected from somewhere Turkey (or Cyprus? - sorry I forget) and not available commercially......
Hi Naoto, welcome to the forum. I think this is probably a seedling from plants collected on the Cyclamen Society expedition to Corfu in 2007. Some of the plants collected had very distinctive red flowers. Seed is made available through the Cyclamen Society seed distribution although there wasn't any this year. I think I'd heard that these Corfiots are not proving to be the easiest hederifoliums to grow but I may be wrong. Melvyn or Pat Nicholls would have more info.
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@Thank you for your comments! @Jo, @Maggi, @Roma :)
@Jo - Yes. I think I was the only oriental there on that day so you must have seen me! ;)
@SJW - Thank you for your info! Yes, That's the place Mr. Bravenboer told me! I hope I could have some seeds of it in the future! :D
And here's my hederifolium "Dark Purple Form" I purchased at CS show in Wisley last year. When I was repotting this summer, I found two corms in the same post so it was lucky dip! Unfortunately these have been in sunny position too long so the colour became rather dark pink :'(
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Thanks for showing such superb Cyclamen Kris, Melvyn, Jo and Naoto!
Some pictures from the garden: Cyclamen persicum var. autumnale, Cyclamen rohlfsianum and a nice dark (still small) Cyclamen graecum ex Archibaldseed.
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Hi Naoto, welcome to the forum. I think this is probably a seedling from plants collected on the Cyclamen Society expedition to Corfu in 2007. Some of the plants collected had very distinctive red flowers. Seed is made available through the Cyclamen Society seed distribution although there wasn't any this year. I think I'd heard that these Corfiots are not proving to be the easiest hederifoliums to grow but I may be wrong. Melvyn or Pat Nicholls would have more info.
The plant shown is actually one of the original plants collected in 2007 in corfu. The problem with them is they flower very late and it is hard to get them to set seed although I know of a few people have raised red seedlings when seed has been available. The plant holders are trying their best but it could be some time before they become as widespread as we would like.
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The plant shown is actually one of the original plants collected in 2007 in corfu. The problem with them is they flower very late and it is hard to get them to set seed although I know of a few people have raised red seedlings when seed has been available. The plant holders are trying their best but it could be some time before they become as widespread as we would like.
Thanks for the additional info, Pat. Last year through the seed exchange I was lucky enough to get 5 seeds from one of the Corfu plants. Frustratingly, only one has germinated for me thus far, although I'm hoping the rest will pop up this autumn. Now there's the wait to see if the flowers have the same extraordinary red colour...
I'm already having problems with seed set. This mild, wet weather and the high humidity in the greenhouse - even with ventilation - is really starting to spoil the flowers on my plants and affecting pollination. I have to remove spent blooms daily to minimise the risk of botrytis setting in.
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The plant shown is actually one of the original plants collected in 2007 in corfu. The problem with them is they flower very late and it is hard to get them to set seed although I know of a few people have raised red seedlings when seed has been available. The plant holders are trying their best but it could be some time before they become as widespread as we would like.
Superb plant! Would be happy to help you to get more seeds.... ;)
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@Hans A.
Thanks for your comment. I like your dark-pinkish graecum flower!
@cycnich, @SJW
Yeah, thanks for your info! Perhaps hederifolium "Ruby Glow (Strain)" or "Red Sky" could be good substitutes in the meantime? ??? ??? ???
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Thanks for the additional info, Pat. Last year through the seed exchange I was lucky enough to get 5 seeds from one of the Corfu plants. Frustratingly, only one has germinated for me thus far, although I'm hoping the rest will pop up this autumn. Now there's the wait to see if the flowers have the same extraordinary red colour...
I'm already having problems with seed set. This mild, wet weather and the high humidity in the greenhouse - even with ventilation - is really starting to spoil the flowers on my plants and affecting pollination. I have to remove spent blooms daily to minimise the risk of botrytis setting in.
I too am living in hope,in spite of being there when we collected them and having the privilege to look after some of them I have yet to raise a red seedling I can call my own, at the moment I have 4 x 2yr old plants looking healthy and should flower next year and like you hoping at least one is red. So far this year the few flowers that have fallen off have gone floppy and will produce no seed so have been removed,I am hoping for a breezy sunny day when a few late insects are around when I am not at work to put them outside and let nature take its course, it is very frustrating.
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@Hans A.
Thanks for your comment. I like your dark-pinkish graecum flower!
@cycnich, @SJW
Yeah, thanks for your info! Perhaps hederifolium "Ruby Glow (Strain)" or "Red Sky" could be good substitutes in the meantime? ??? ??? ???
yes ruby glow,rossenteppich and Jans dark purple will produce some amazing coloured plants, not sure about red sky, I have tried for seed but with no success so far but all of these will key out to purple on the rhs colour chart and not red as the corfu plants did, but be patient it will happen.
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Nothing like as dark or bold as the hederifoliums we are discussing but I rather liked this africanum I got from Wisely. The other one is from Tilebarn, flowers tend to be a little floppy.
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Some Cyclamen leaves
The first two are old Wye College small flowered persicum hybrids.
Very beautiful foliage Roma.
Lovely africanums too Mark. Exchange seed received as such 2-3 years ago has given me a very pleasing variety of both foliage and flowers.
Can someone please remind me how best to distinguish africanum from hederifolium (from hybrids), short of leaving them out in the cold?
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Can someone please remind me how best to distinguish africanum from hederifolium (from hybrids), short of leaving them out in the cold?
Ashley, the standard differences are that africanum roots from all over the tuber while hederifolium roots from the sides and the top; africanum leaves are more like confusum ie thicker, larger; and africanum flowers arise straight up from the tuber whereas hederifolium tends to send them out sideways before growing up (elbowed). Whether the plants themselves remember to follow these 'rules' is a moot point!
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So far this year the few flowers that have fallen off have gone floppy and will produce no seed so have been removed,I am hoping for a breezy sunny day when a few late insects are around when I am not at work to put them outside and let nature take its course, it is very frustrating.
Yes, it's really frustrating when the flower falls off and the stem keels over and turns to mush. Anyway, we've all got our fingers crossed for you, Pat. No pressure, then! :)
And it could be worse. Imagine how the custodians of the somalense plants must feel...
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Many thanks Steve. Having several differences to cross-check is more convincing when individual plants are 'indeterminate' by one criterion alone.
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Years ago I was told (or read) that seed set on cyclamen could be improved by taking plants for a drive. I've never tried; do people still believe this?
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@Mark
Nice cyclamens!
Yes, it's really frustrating when the flower falls off and the stem keels over and turns to mush.
So I'm not the only one....... ???
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Years ago I was told (or read) that seed set on cyclamen could be improved by taking plants for a drive. I've never tried; do people still believe this?
I do think that some gentle vibration to a plant pot can work wonders to achieve pollination in plants that are reluctant to set seed. .........
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Beautiful photos everyone!!
I have these three cyclamens and I was hoping someone here could help identify them, two pink and one turned out white
[attach=1]
[attach=2]
ps, I see the logic in shaking them up a bit !! A drive is not like taking them dancing after all ;D
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I do think that some gentle vibration to a plant pot can work wonders to achieve pollination in plants that are reluctant to set seed. .........
I'd agree Maggi. For cyclamen grown under glass, lightly tapping the flower stems over several days works very well when insects are scarce. The only exception I've found is C. mirabile under damp conditions such as we've had recently. Perhaps coincidentally this species also seems the most susceptible to botrytis, making it essential to pick off fading blooms regularly.
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I'd agree Maggi. For cyclamen grown under glass, lightly tapping the flower stems over several days works very well when insects are scarce. The only exception I've found is C. mirabile under damp conditions such as we've had recently. Perhaps coincidentally this species also seems the most susceptible to botrytis, making it essential to pick off fading blooms regularly.
I have the same issue and always tap the flowers but I think the conditions do have to be right. If I see pollen falling on to the leaves it can work but if not..............................
Confusum and has almost been impossible this year in pots but we shall see how it fairs in the garden. Success has also varied from plant to plant in other species ???
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Fenius, they look like C.hederifolium to me but not the usual form, could be ssp crassense perhaps? Are they scented? Where did you get them from?
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I do think that some gentle vibration to a plant pot can work wonders to achieve pollination in plants that are reluctant to set seed. .........
A drive in the country is probably less likely to spread disease than my pollination technique -- tapping the flowers from below with a finger. My method, however, can be used to cross two or more separate individuals. Just be sure to wash your fingers well before starting and avoid tapping any sick flowers.
Jim
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I have the same issue and always tap the flowers but I think the conditions do have to be right. If I see pollen falling on to the leaves it can work but if not..............................
Tapping never works here - even when pollen is falling. Hence my question.
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tapping,slapping,tickling, all of these are a daily routine for me as soon as I get home from work. I am sure it has some effect as the pollen falls like snow but is still dependent on temperature and humidity. The neighbours think I have lost the plot and you can picture them looking out the windows and saying what the hell is he doing now why doesn't he leave the poor things alone. Today I got my wish for a sunny ,breezy day and I was home a little early so not only did they get tapped they got a damn good hiding,lets see if that works.
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Prompted by the comments on this thread regarding 'red' Cyclamen hederifolium I attach a few photos of the variants that I am growing.
1. A form becoming more readily available, this is a plant that I bought in October last year from Jan Bravenboer at the Cyclamen Society show. Very dark colouring but perhaps more purple than red.
2.A Cyclamen Society plant from Corfu and a lovely brick red colour. I always look for fragrance in plants and this form is particularly well perfumed.
3. This plant was found many years ago by the late David Baker in the Pelion region of Greece.
4. Another Cyclamen Society plant from Corfu.
5. A close up of the above
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Just breathtaking, Melvyn!!! :o :P
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Just breathtaking, Melvyn!!! :o :P
Agree with Hans ! Indeed breathtaking forms with great future ! Never see such great forms here in Belgium ! Thanks for sharing Melvyn . Hope they wil spread soon because they are realy new introductions .
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Wow Melvin that second plant is an amazing colour, and scented too, I'm drooling here :D
A lot of my potted Cyclamen are kept in greenhouses and I think that the lack of air movement reduces pollination. I find that standing the pots outside on fine windy days helps. I have had a very good set on hederifolium 'Stargazer' this year by leaving it outside.
I am also a flower tapper but reckon that temperature makes a difference to pollen release, and even when its falling they don't necessarily fertilise. Ho hum :)
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Fenius, they look like C.hederifolium to me but not the usual form, could be ssp crassense perhaps? Are they scented? Where did you get them from?
I was thinking hederifolium or africanum but I don't detect any scent, that's where I had trouble.. I bought them last year on ebay as coum (..I think not!!) I'd never heard of crassense I can only find crassifolium on cyclamen society, is that it?? I just love how confusing cyclamens are!
ps. wow melvin :o
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More 'red' Cyclamen hederifolium.
1. This plant was found by the late Ole Sonderhausen. I do not have access to his field notes but the plant number is OS.505 and was I believe collected in Sicily.
2. Another Cyclamen Society plant from Corfu.
3. A close up of the above.
4. A red flowered seedling.
5. Another red flowered plant of unknown provenance.
I have now successfully produced a few red flowered seedlings but the success rate is quite low. I was amused by Pat's thought of regular slap and tickle but this year I have been diligently trying to assist pollination with a paint brush.
I think the poor success rate in pollination may be due to the plants of Corfiot origin flowering later in the season when its damp and colder. This year there seem to be very few hover flies pollinating but still plenty of bumble bees.
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I don't think "tapping" is as good as the vibration that might be found on a car trip! Tapping may be too violent and just lead to pollen falling - vibration should lead, if my theory is correct - to more scattering of the pollen, getting to all the important little places......
That said, I hope Melvyn continues to tap and vibrate these glorious reds as much as he can!!
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I like all the reds - but does anyone else agree with me that SDIM5624rs looks like a Rory McEwan painting?
Just a lovely photo!
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Fenius, yes, sorry, that should have been crassifolium.
typical hederifolium often isn't scented.
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That Corfiot red is amazing Melvyn, as indeed is the plant from Jan Bravenboer. Thanks for showing them.
Dampness rather than temperature appears to be the main limiting factor here, presumably causing pollen to stick fast to anthers. Nevertheless, my mirabile plants consistently seem more resistant to tapping than other species including cilicium. Putting them out on a dry windy day might be best, as Jo suggests.
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More 'red' Cyclamen hederifolium.
Melvyn, it would be an unsettling experience for any Man City or Everton fan visiting your greenhouse; the different shades of red flowers you have are just terrific. What sort of germination rate did you get for the Corfu seeds? Good, or are the seedlings a bit miffy? As I mentioned in an earlier post I sowed 5 seeds last autumn, one came up and its growth rate has been pretty slow. Still waiting for the others to germinate but I live in hope.
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Dampness rather than temperature appears to be the main limiting factor here, presumably causing pollen to stick fast to anthers. Nevertheless, my mirabile plants consistently seem more resistant to tapping than other species including cilicium. Putting them out on a dry windy day might be best, as Jo suggests.
Both mirabile and cilicium can be temperamental for me - the flowers seem to suffer more than most if the humidity gets too high and the ventilation isn't spot on. On taking the plants for a drive, I thought this came from observations of exhibitors noting some plants having good seed set after taking them to a show? Lots of air movement, warm car, lower humidity in the exhibition hall than in the greenhouse etc.
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2.A Cyclamen Society plant from Corfu and a lovely brick red colour. I always look for fragrance in plants and this form is particularly well perfumed.
Wow! :o Very nice colour, indeed! Thanks for sharing!
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Hello Melvyn ,
your collection of red and reddish Cyc. hederifolium is breathtaking . The most desirable one has to be the red one 2A collected by the Ccylamen Soc in Corfu . I would be most grateful for a few seeds of this one and /or the other reds .
All Cyc. species grow well here in the garden ,except rohlfsianum and of course I do not have somalense .
In case you are able to spare a fewseeds here my address : Otto Fauser
7 Bella Vista Crescent,
Olinda , Vic. 3788 , Australia .
kind regards ,
Otto.
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I like all the reds - but does anyone else agree with me that SDIM5624rs looks like a Rory McEwan painting?
Just a lovely photo!
Yes it does! Except not enough empty space..
I've been considering using my electric toothbrush as a vibrating device (without the brush) to imitate the 'buzz' pollination that bees do on tomatoes, touching the end of the toothbrush holder to the stem, or maybe ovary. Maybe it might work on cyclamen?
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Great idea Anne - and cheaper than taking them for a drive. Worth some experiments, I think.
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:o :o : How stunning those reds .
Here the more usual hederifloiums ...
1/ Peter 's (Moore) hederifolium 'Silver Arrow '
2/ same but with pollinator
3/ hederifolium from seed collected in Zakynthos
4/ seedling in the garden with very narrow and smal leaves (the fallen leaves of the shrub are from Prunus 'Kojo-no-mai' )
5/more hederifolium in the garden
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Few other hederifolium in the garden ...
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1/ Cyclamen rohlfsianum with more leaves and fewer flowers .
2/ C. africanum 'Album '
3/ C. cilicium seedling in the rockgarden
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lovely pics Kris.
where did you get the C.africanum "album" from? I got some under that name from AGS seed some time back. Pretty sure they are just hederifolium but as they flower nicely I've kept them in the greenhouse.
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One of my favourite, the national flower of Cyprus(?), Cyclamen cyprium
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lovely pics Kris.
where did you get the C.africanum "album" from? I got some under that name from AGS seed some time back. Pretty sure they are just hederifolium but as they flower nicely I've kept them in the greenhouse.
Thanks Mark ! This is the only white flowering one from a batch of seedlings of C. africanum .
The seeds came to me as Cyclamen africanum and they are given to me by Charlotte Jacobsen.Charlotte is a member of our society (VRV)and not unknown to some people of this forum.Maybe this is also hederifolium , who could tel ?
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One of my favourite, the national flower of Cyprus(?), Cyclamen cyprium
One of my favourites to Mark ! Wil post some flowers later on ...
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Cyclamen cyprium - first some leaves ...........
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Cyclamen cyprium - some flowers ........
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very nice Kris. It's funny that after all the wonderful variety of patterning of the leaves sometimes plain leaved forms are nice. I have a number of different forms, I must remember to post some pics of the leaves. I've got some seedlings of a supposedly pink variety, I've had a few pinkish ones but never a fully pink one. Here's hoping!
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Cracking Cyclamen over the past week folks.
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Cracking Cyclamen over the past week folks.
Cannot agrre more!
Two from here: Cyclamen persicum var. autumnale and a strange Cyclamen graecum. ;)
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and a strange Cyclamen graecum. ;)
Oh yes indeed Hans ....Looks a bit like the flowers from persicum with the leaves of graecum ???
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Very strange Hans, I thought they were C. rohlfsianum flowers!
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Very strange Hans, I thought they were C. rohlfsianum flowers!
Was my first idea to Melvyn , but I suppose they are not hybridising with graecum?
I changed my posting to persicum but ofcourse this one also could not cros with graecum ....
Maybe Hans did some photoshop ....or it is a strange atumn flowering persicum . Or an odd rohlfsianum ?
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hmm, I'd say rohlfsianum flowering up through a graecum?
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Lifted 3 greacum from the garden a few weeks back. After moving numerous hederifolium I forgot how different graecum root systems are. They seem none the worse for it so far in temporary deep pots.
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Brian, do you find them easy in the open garden? I tried one but it wasn't the right position though it lasted for a year or two I think.
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Those 3 did fine. Must have been in 4 years or so, in a sheltered position under the edge of a Syringa meyeri 'Palibin. Planted as 2-3 cms diameter; in the photo nearer 6-8 cms. It's well drained chalky soil, raised bed, in a south facing garden, so not too testing for them. A friend in north Bucks has had 1 or more against his house wall for some years without problems, and he has a high water table, much wetter than me I would guess, in winter at least.
Mine have had more water in the pots over the last few weeks than ever before. Hope they survive.
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Maybe Hans did some photoshop ....or it is a strange atumn flowering persicum . Or an odd rohlfsianum ?
Kris, No I did not! :o
Melvyn and Mark are certainly right - it seems a selfsown C. rohlfsianum is growing between white C. graecum. First I was not very happy as I thought there was a pink graecum between my white ones (grow species/forms which could create hybrids separate normally).
Now I am wondering how is the probability about getting hybrids between C. rohlfsianum and C. persicum autumnale - they are not growing far away from eachother and flowering at the same time this year.
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Kris, No I did not! :o
I know Hans .....bad joke to mask that we where uncertain abouth the right ID
Now I am wondering how is the probability about getting hybrids between C. rohlfsianum and C. persicum autumnale - they are not growing far away from eachother and flowering at the same time this year.
That would be an interesting theory ....But it is even so great that you get seedlings of rohlfsianum in the garden :o
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Cyclamen graecum leaves of some forms that I grow ........
[attachimg=1]
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Kris, remarkable leaves on the two plants in the third row from top.
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Kris, remarkable leaves on the two plants in the third row from top.
Hello Melvyn , left is a plant I bought from Peter some years ago . Right is a plant I grew from seed that I collected at the Rhodopou peninsular .
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Self sown Cyclamen coum in the meadow start to form their buds, while
Cyclamen hederifolium shows the last flowers for this season. We are
always amazed, how these plants survive the conditons in the bone dry
soil during summer under a Picea orientalis. Self sown seedlings grow
around the corms and give us hope for a bigger group of these fine plants.
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A variety of leaf forms from a packet of C. hederifolium 'Tilebarn Greville' seeds, sown Oct 2011. None looks like Tilebarn Greville (and the largest plant is white flowered). You never quite know what you're going to get from seed exchanges but I'm happy with what's come up. The 'Silver Arrow' plants are much better than the ones I have growing from 'Silver Arrow' seed!
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Kris, I have a plant similar to those in the third row, I got it as "Rhodope" from Peter also.
Rudi, really like that hederifolium in the last pic.
Steve, very nice hederifolium mix there
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Very nice leaves on the C.hederifolium seedlings Steve, especially the silver leaf one on the left of the photo.
Rudi I agree with Mark the last C.hederifolium is very nice.
I picked out this plant as my most promising seedling last year and this is the first time it has flowered, I particularly like the black edging to the silver leaves. The seed came from a plant that was originally from Leonidi.
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I picked out this plant as my most promising seedling last year and this is the first time it has flowered, I particularly like the black edging to the silver leaves. The seed came from a plant that was originally from Leonidi.
That's a lovely leaf, Melvyn, and the edging really sets it off. I don't have any ex-Leonidi plants (just covet your's and Pat Nicholls's from afar!) so don't know if you get a range of flower colour with them. The flowers on your seedling look to be a good, deepish shade. Are they scented?
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I tried to take some pictures of Cyclamen leaves in the greenhouse, unfortunately it's so dark that not so many came out. Here are some of the persicum..if you are wondering about the little white dots that's the remains of coolglass I rubbed off a few weeks back.
The punicium came to me from Cyclamen Society seed as Tilebarn Karpathos but I think the leaves of that selection look different.
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A variety of leaf forms from a packet of C. hederifolium 'Tilebarn Graham' seeds, sown Oct 2011. None looks like Tilebarn Graham (and the largest plant is white flowered). You never quite know what you're going to get from seed exchanges but I'm happy with what's come up. The 'Silver Arrow' plants are much better than the ones I have growing from 'Silver Arrow' seed!
I think you will find tilebarn Graham is a coum. These are more likely to be from tilebarn Helena white flowers with silver arrow leaves but it is only a guess.
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I think you will find tilebarn Graham is a coum. These are more likely to be from tilebarn Helena white flowers with silver arrow leaves but it is only a guess.
Whoops, you're absolutely right, Pat. I meant to type 'Tilebarn Greville' but obviously had a brainstorm. They do look like 'Tilebarn Helena', don't they, but I'm not going to stray into the horticultural minefield that is the naming of seedlings from known cultivars! ;D
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Whoops, you're absolutely right, Pat. I meant to type 'Tilebarn Greville' but obviously had a brainstorm. They do look like 'Tilebarn Helena', don't they, but I'm not going to stray into the horticultural minefield that is the naming of seedlings from known cultivars! ;D
Hi Steve
I am guessing your seed came from an exchange of some sort. Sadly this is where it sometimes goes wrong, it only takes one person to send in wrongly labeled seed and for the next person to repeat that and a clone that has taken so long to raise becomes lost in short space of time. Funny enough I was talking to Peter moore at the show a few weeks ago about the very same plant and he told me it took him 10 years of selection and back crossing to create it. It would be a crime if it were to be lost by bad selection. You have already realised it is not what it is supposed to be but sadly not everyone is that astute and there are some who won't even care and will pass it on anyway. From my own experience tilebarn greville/shirley comes 100% true in leaf,it only remains to select the flower colour to give it the correct name. This I stress is from my own seed from plants that came direct from peter. A prime example of poor selection is bowles Apollo now sadly lost and now available only as a strain which produces some nice plants but not a patch on the original that I remember, I am sure better selection would have saved it but inferior seedlings and seed from them was passed on and it is now lost.
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Hi Pat, I couldn't agree more. I must stress that I'm not being critical of seed exchanges because, frankly, without them I wouldn't have a greenhouse full of nice plants. But, as you say, some donors are more rigorous than others when it comes to seed labelling. Normally, I just send stuff in under the species name with, at most, a note saying "ex. cultivar name" (if I'm happy to call the parent by that cultivar name) or eg "2nd gen CSE" In this case, the 'Tilebarn Greville' seed came from the CS seed distribution! I also have a very dodgy-looking pot of 'Tilebarn Shirley' - basically just silver-leaved - from the same source...C. mirabile 'Tilebarn Nicholas' is another one that needs careful selection to ensure we stay true to the original - I've seen some poor forms of this in the past. And another is 'Tilebarn Karpathos' that Mark mentioned a few posts back. I'm not sure that everyone is ruthless enough in rogueing out those that don't have flowers the same colour as rhodium vividum. The occasional series that Trevor Wiltshire writes on cyclamen cultivars for the CS journal is useful and, longer-term, when the CS website is overhauled an expanded version of this with a comprehensive photo gallery would be a terrific online resource so that people can check their plants against examples of the original cultivars.
Talking of 'Bowles Apollo', I've only read descriptions of the original plant but I do know that a photo of a painting of it was published in one of the horticultural journals (RHS?AGS?) years ago. If any kind forumist has a copy of this that they could post here that would be great.
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Talking of 'Bowles Apollo', I've only read descriptions of the original plant but I do know that a photo of a painting of it was published in one of the horticultural journals (RHS?AGS?) years ago. If any kind forumist has a copy of this that they could post here that would be great.
Apparently, the reproduction of the painting is in the Bulletin of the Alpine Garden Society, vol.46 no. 3 ( September 1978 ) p. 236: it is the leaf in the upper row on the far right. There is also a discussion by F W Buglass on pp 240-1 about the origin of this plant. So if anyone has a back copy...
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I tried to take some pictures of Cyclamen leaves in the greenhouse, unfortunately it's so dark that not so many came out. Here are some of the persicum..if you are wondering about the little white dots that's the remains of coolglass I rubbed off a few weeks back.
The punicium came to me from Cyclamen Society seed as Tilebarn Karpathos but I think the leaves of that selection look different.
Great leafforms Mark . The pewter persicum is fantastic .We did see forms like this in the wild in Cyprus .
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thanks Kris. I'd love to see it in the wild myself, preferably in flower, maybe one day.
On the subject of the "cultivars" it's a bit of a minefield. I tend to avoid asking for seed because I generally know they will be out in some way and I have no reference to go for. I'd prefer that we talk about strains and apply rigour to that. I think "cultivar" does have the inference in some ways that you can clone it which unless you can take a knife to it, you can't (?)
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Apparently, the reproduction of the painting is in the Bulletin of the Alpine Garden Society, vol.46 no. 3 ( September 1978 ) p. 236: it is the leaf in the upper row on the far right. There is also a discussion by F W Buglass on pp 240-1 about the origin of this plant. So if anyone has a back copy...
In the spirit of fair dealing, for non-commercial research and study, here are some photos of the picture and text referred to :
[attachimg=1]
[attachimg=2]
[attachimg=3]
[attachimg=4]
Picture of Painting by Gerard Parker Text by F.W. Bulglass - from AGS Bulletin 46/3 1978
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Thanks for that, Maggi. I think I should have that bulletin up in the loft, covered in bat droppings :( My old SRGC journals are there too. Maybe I'll get round to rescuing them some day ;D
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thanks for that, the "Apollo" I grew from seed are nothing like that and I suspected that these were apples that had fallen a very long way from the tree as they were so ordinary. Very impressive in it's true form I must say.
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In the spirit of fair dealing, for non-commercial research and study, here are some photos of the picture and text referred to
Maggi, many thanks for finding this so quickly and posting. I've wanted to see details of the leaf of the original plant for years. :) As Mark says, there's some pale imposters around these days. I suspect that all 8 leaf forms shown would now be classed as Bowles Apollo group?
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A friend gave me this trunk pieces which just look like this reproduction in the book
The first one with a fresh wound
shown in detail in the next picture
The second one with an old wound
and detail
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Then one with a thickening in the middle of the trunk.
Seems that C.purpurascens propagates sometimes this way in nature.
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vergot the picture :P
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a few diferent leaf forms of C.cyprium. I had a lovely sage green one but it is now long gone. these are nice though. The last one has some hederifolium mixed in. Oddly this is the second sowing of C. cyprium from Cyclamen society seed that has got a C.hederifolium cuckoo in the pot.
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I had a lovely sage green one but it is now long gone. these are nice though.
Something like this one Mark ?
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Some two year old Cyclamen (hederifolium, coum, alpinum, x drydeniae) seedlings showing their true colours :D
[attachimg=1]
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Some two year old Cyclamen (hederifolium, coum, alpinum, x drydeniae) seedlings showing their true colours :D
Wim, it's always good to get that first-year wait out of the way! :) Are those two pots of hederifolium from the Fairy Rings group/series/strain?
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Wim, it's always good to get that first-year wait out of the way! :) Are those two pots of hederifolium from the Fairy Rings group/series/strain?
That's true, Steve! Those C. hederifoliums are seedlings of 'Tilebarn Greville' and 'Tilebarn Shirley'.
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Mark and Kris - some lovely cyprium leaves there. I don't find them the easiest species - young plants are ok, it's keeping them going that I find a bit tricky as they can be quite unforgiving plants if the conditions aren't quite right, in my experience. This one seems a bit more robust compared with others I've killed off, it's been flowering since mid-September.
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Steve, I find them hugely variable in vigour. When I joined the Cyclamen Society back in the 90s the then secretary (Dr Bent) kindly sent me some cyprium seeds and from just a few seeds I got all sorts of things, some grew quickly and then perished in a decade or so, some I think I still have and are still only an inch or so across.
I find the splash marked leaved type to be more consistently vigorous, in the same way the plain leaved white intaminatum seems to be consistently strong.
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That's true, Steve! Those C. hederifoliums are seedlings of 'Tilebarn Greville' and 'Tilebarn Shirley'.
Looks like you may have got your seed from the same source as Steve. Some lovely plants but none that resemble Greville or Shirley.
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Looks like you may have got your seed from the same source as Steve. Some lovely plants but none that resemble Greville or Shirley.
Probably Pat....nothing like those Tilebarns indeed, but I like them anyhow :)
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I have been enjoying looking at the pictures of everyone's leaves! To be honest, I'm more interested in the leaf pattern and shape than in the flowers... ;) Nice flowers are just a bonus for me...
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Hi there.
I've just come across the line from the web site of Ashwood Nurseries, which says that pine needles are good mulching for cyclamens......does anyone use pine needles? I've recently finished making a new raised bed in my garden and have planted some c.coums there, but I used ordinary farmhouse manure instead.......any particular reasons for pine needles ???
P.S. nice collection @Mark and @WimB!
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Natural variation on an area of only 100 m² in open pine forest !
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Several really nice patterns there, Freddy!
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I've just come across the line from the web site of Ashwood Nurseries, which says that pine needles are good mulching for cyclamens......does anyone use pine needles? I've recently finished making a new raised bed in my garden and have planted some c.coums there, but I used ordinary farmhouse manure instead.......any particular reasons for pine needles ???
Naoto - in the wild cyclamen often, but not always, grow around/under pine trees so they would naturally get a mulch of pine needles. In potting mixes people tend to use the term 'pine duff' which is just the well-rotted-down needles you get under mature pine trees. I've used it for potting up, eg purpuracens, mixed with grit, leaf mould, JI compost etc.
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Naoto - in the wild cyclamen often, but not always, grow around/under pine trees so they would naturally get a mulch of pine needles. In potting mixes people tend to use the term 'pine duff' which is just the well-rotted-down needles you get under mature pine trees. I've used it for potting up, eg purpuracens, mixed with grit, leaf mould, JI compost etc.
In his 1987 'Varieties List' Paul Christian suggests rotted pine needles can usefully be added to composts for woodland plants. He also states that they can be used on their own. To reduce their natural acidity chalk, limestone or dolomite should be added, together with a general fertilizer, after which they should be left to 'settle' for a few months. Not having access to a pine forest, I've never tried them.
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Pine needles as a mulch are great for keeping the foliage pristine. You can top-dress with compost or manure and apply more needles atop the former annually. As mentioned add lime.
johnw - +8c going to 16c tomorrow & driving rain.
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In his 1987 'Varieties List' Paul Christian suggests rotted pine needles can usefully be added to composts for woodland plants. He also states that they can be used on their own. To reduce their natural acidity chalk, limestone or dolomite should be added, together with a general fertilizer, after which they should be left to 'settle' for a few months. Not having access to a pine forest, I've never tried them.
Yes, I usually add some dolomitic lime and bonemeal to the mix but I let it settle for just a few minutes - while I find the right-sized pot - rather than the few months Paul Christian recommends!
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While I've had mixed results from my sowings of Tilebarn Greville/Shirley, this batch of C. hederifolium 'Silver Shield' seedlings are looking pretty true to type. Seems to be quite a slow grower, seed was sown in January 2012.
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Thanks for your answers, guys! Unfortunately I can't find any pine tree forest near my house so I'll have to stick to farmyard manure for my cyclamens and helleborus. :(
By the way, is it possible that hederifoliums have scent? It could be my imagination, but the one I bought at Hampton Court Palace Show this year smells like C.cyprium (a bit of powdery smell - much weaker than C.cyprium though).
1st pic : the corm I bought at HC palace flower show from a dutch seller (it was 4 quid)
2nd pic : now in bloom
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Bought these at the garden centre yesterday - they'll do me for now!
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Thanks for your answers, guys! Unfortunately I can't find any pine tree forest near my house so I'll have to stick to farmyard manure for my cyclamens and helleborus. :(
By the way, is it possible that hederifoliums have scent? It could be my imagination, but the one I bought at Hampton Court Palace Show this year smells like C.cyprium (a bit of powdery smell - much weaker than C.cyprium though).
1st pic : the corm I bought at HC palace flower show from a dutch seller (it was 4 quid)
2nd pic : now in bloom
Naoto - looks like a wild-collected corm (still legal but with quotas, I think) so probably from Turkey? Yes, some strains of hederifolium do have a strong scent eg those from Corfu and Zakynthos and other Greek islands. I don't have any Turkish heds but I'm pretty sure you get scented forms from there as well.
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I visited the local Garden Centre today. I was attracted to a trolley outside the front door with small flowered Cyclamen persicum cultivars. I liked the pale pink ones on the top shelf but when I got closer noticed the flowers were drooping though the leaves seemed ok. We have had frosts down to about -4C recently. The ones on lower shelves looked better. In the outdoor part of the garden centre were large flowered cultivars looking equally unhappy. At the checkout I could not resist saying to the assistant that the Cyclamen had been damaged by frost. She insisted they were hardy Cyclamen. When I said 'Maybe in the South of England' she said all their plants are sourced in Scotland. No point in arguing with someone who knows they are right so I left with my bags of grit.
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I visited the local Garden Centre today. I was attracted to a trolley outside the front door with small flowered Cyclamen persicum cultivars. I liked the pale pink ones on the top shelf but when I got closer noticed the flowers were drooping though the leaves seemed ok. We have had frosts down to about -4C recently. The ones on lower shelves looked better. In the outdoor part of the garden centre were large flowered cultivars looking equally unhappy. At the checkout I could not resist saying to the assistant that the Cyclamen had been damaged by frost. She insisted they were hardy Cyclamen. When I said 'Maybe in the South of England' she said all their plants are sourced in Scotland. No point in arguing with someone who knows they are right so I left with my bags of grit.
I live in shoreham on the south coast. A few years ago the local councils started using these as bedding plants. A couple of hard winters soon put paid to that. They are not hardy even here and certainly not where you live. Nice house plants though.
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Cyclamen graecum anatolicum
There has been some discussion on the forum on how this should be distinguished from other forms of C. graecum. Tony Willis suggested (privately) to me that in this form growth occurs all over the top of the tuber rather than just from the centre; this is consistent with my own observations of the 3 plants I have under this name. I have also noticed that the flowers on these plants mostly tend to droop & then shrivel while remaining attached to the scape rather than falling away cleanly as mostly happens in other forms of graecum. Has anyone else noticed this?
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I visited the local Garden Centre today. I was attracted to a trolley outside the front door with small flowered Cyclamen persicum cultivars. I liked the pale pink ones on the top shelf but when I got closer noticed the flowers were drooping though the leaves seemed ok. We have had frosts down to about -4C recently. The ones on lower shelves looked better. In the outdoor part of the garden centre were large flowered cultivars looking equally unhappy. At the checkout I could not resist saying to the assistant that the Cyclamen had been damaged by frost. She insisted they were hardy Cyclamen. When I said 'Maybe in the South of England' she said all their plants are sourced in Scotland. No point in arguing with someone who knows they are right so I left with my bags of grit.
The ones I pictured recently are on our patio facing south at the foot of the stone house wall, so I'll see how they do.
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Naoto - looks like a wild-collected corm (still legal but with quotas, I think) so probably from Turkey? Yes, some strains of hederifolium do have a strong scent eg those from Corfu and Zakynthos and other Greek islands. I don't have any Turkish heds but I'm pretty sure you get scented forms from there as well.
Thank you for your reply, SJW!
This was the marquee I purchased the hederifolium at Hampton Court - if I had known that these corms were wild-collected, I wouldn't have bought mine (although it is still legal). How would you tell the difference between wild-collected and nursery-grown? (for my future reference)
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Thank you for your reply, SJW!
This was the marquee I purchased the hederifolium at Hampton Court - if I had known that these corms were wild-collected, I wouldn't have bought mine (although it is still legal). How would you tell the difference between wild-collected and nursery-grown? (for my future reference)
Well, the flippant answer is that nursery-grown plants tend to come in a pot and the tubers have roots and foliage! The fact that the one you bought was large, dried out, and had the roots trimmed off/tidied up made me think it was an imported, wild-collected hederifolium. And nursery-grown plants tend to establish better than imported, dried tubers (although I see yours came into growth and is flowering).
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I would guess on wild collected tubers simply on size, Naoto.
The chances of buying a dry tuber of that large size from cultivated stock are virtually nill, I reckon.
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I I have to agree. That tuber must be 8 to 10 years old. No nurseryman would keep a plant that long before selling it.
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Thank you @SJW, @Maggi and @cycnich! :)
Though it may be still legal I don't feel right, so I will be more careful next time!
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Cyclamen graecum anatolicum
There has been some discussion on the forum on how this should be distinguished from other forms of C. graecum. Tony Willis suggested (privately) to me that in this form growth occurs all over the top of the tuber rather than just from the centre; this is consistent with my own observations of the 3 plants I have under this name. I have also noticed that the flowers on these plants mostly tend to droop & then shrivel while remaining attached to the scape rather than falling away cleanly as mostly happens in other forms of graecum. Has anyone else noticed this?
Interesting. Is the Monte Smith form of graecum anatolicum? I have a plant raised from CS seed (so it may not be true) that has growth points all over it.
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On the dried collected tubers - I thought that some cyclamen were now being grown in fields (presumably from seed) and then harvested and imported as dried tubers. I think I've seen some packs that made some statement about not being wild collected although they look the same as the infamous woolworth's packs of days gone by.
and of course they still have pictures that aren't right on the packs...
for me I buy tubers very rarely now, I prefer to grow from seed.
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On the dried collected tubers - I thought that some cyclamen were now being grown in fields (presumably from seed) and then harvested and imported as dried tubers. I think I've seen some packs that made some statement about not being wild collected although they look the same as the infamous woolworth's packs of days gone by.
and of course they still have pictures that aren't right on the packs...
for me I buy tubers very rarely now, I prefer to grow from seed.
I've seen some of those, Mark - but they all tend to be little, regularly sized and shaped tubers- nothing like that giant bought at the show.
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hmm, that's a shame. Overall the whole sustainable growing of cyclamen in Turkey seemed a better answer for all concerned than simply ripping them out of habitat. I'm surprised that the importers still find wild collected plants an attractive proposition.
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Since there are packets of the "expected" type and size of tubers for sale there must be a degree of sustainable farming going on - maybe just not enough . :-\
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Interesting. Is the Monte Smith form of graecum anatolicum? I have a plant raised from CS seed (so it may not be true) that has growth points all over it.
Mark, yes I think the Monte Smith form (ie ex. Rhodes) is graecum anatolicum.
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Interesting. Is the Monte Smith form of graecum anatolicum? I have a plant raised from CS seed (so it may not be true) that has growth points all over it.
The provenance of the 3 plants I have of C. graecum anatolicum (from Peter Moore & Pat Nichols) is said to be Monte Smith, Rhodes. They are quite different in flower though not in leaf.
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mine is an odd thing. Basically green with slightly raised cream veins. Never a flower so far and it's tiny. I have another "anatolicum" that has more typical leaves and is also tiny as in the leaves don't even get over the rim of the pot.
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I visited the local Garden Centre today. ...........so I left with my bags of grit.
Only one? I seem to go through potting grit at an alarming rate!
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It was 3 bags, Ralph. I only meant to buy two but there was a bit off per bag if I bought three. I'm running out of John Innes now. Inverurie Garden Centre doesn't stock it and the last I bought from Homebase (seed compost nearly a year ago) was so wet it still hasn't dried out. I got potting compost in Dobbies more recently and it was ok. It is further away and I hate that place. I found out last time I was there the chap who looked after the house plants and I've known for over 30 years had left. He was working at Smith & Sons when I went there before I went to the Cruickshank Garden and stayed on when it was taken over by Findlay Clark and then by Dobbies. I heard from another source all the full time staff have been sacked and it is all part time staff now. Even a few weeks after the new shop opened the plants looked neglected. It is a windy site and pots dry out quickly but there are not enough knowledgable or ?interested staff or maybe just not enough staff to look after the plants properly. Didn't mean to rant but I think all you people out there who know their plants don't like to see them neglected before sale.
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For Dobbies read Tesco!
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I sucumbed and bought to C.cilicium in bags, it says cultivated stock. No idea if they will survive. The picture on the pack looks like a persicum cultivar, bright pink with no nasal blotch. The plants are of course though cilicium, they are already in flower.
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mine is an odd thing. Basically green with slightly raised cream veins. Never a flower so far and it's tiny. I have another "anatolicum" that has more typical leaves and is also tiny as in the leaves don't even get over the rim of the pot.
Mark - I read in the new Cyclamen book that the Monte Smith site is an "exposed windswept cliff and the windy conditions have created the most compact cushion forms of C. graecum often with leaves as broad as they are long. This characteristic feature is passed on to the next generation and is maintained in cultivation." Perhaps yours is an extreme example of this? Is anatolicum slower/more temperamental than normal C. graecum? Recently, I was debating whether to discard an ungerminated pot of anatolicum seeds sown in 2010 but noticed yesterday that one seedling has now come through. Better late than never! This Cyclamen Society seed was wild collected in May 2010 in the Goynuk Gorge, Beydag, Turkey. I'm sure I've read on the SRGC forum about the good graecum anatolicum leaf forms in this area (perhaps the collector is a forumist?) so I'm pleased that at least one of the seeds has eventually germinated.
Gerry's observation about anatolicum tubers having growing points all over rather than just from the centre is interesting. All my mature tubers came from mixed graecum seed so I don't know their subspecies status. Pretty sure none is candicum but one may be anatolicum although the flower markings aren't conclusive and none is scented. I'll take a closer look at the tuber growing points now though, if this is a consistent diagnostic feature.
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This Cyclamen Society seed was wild collected in May 2010 in the Goynuk Gorge, Beydag, Turkey. I'm sure I've read on the SRGC forum about the good graecum anatolicum leaf forms in this area (perhaps the collector is a forumist?) so I'm pleased that at least one of the seeds has eventually germinated.
Cyclamen graecum grows in countless numbers (as it does over the whole area) in the gorge at Goynuk. This is a start to the walk to see Crocus wattiorum and once across the river the path which is part of the Anatolia long distance footpath follows an irrigation channel. Along this are magnificent plants both in size and in wonderful leaf forms of C. graecum. Leaf size is totally variable and ranges in my plants which are from my own seed from just over 1 cm to 4 cms in diameter. The contribution to the Cyclamen society seed exchange is not mine.
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Cyclamen graecum grows in countless numbers (as it does over the whole area) in the gorge at Goynuk. This is a start to the walk to see Crocus wattiorum and once across the river the path which is part of the Anatolia long distance footpath follows an irrigation channel. Along this are magnificent plants both in size and in wonderful leaf forms of C. graecum. Leaf size is totally variable and ranges in my plants which are from my own seed from just over 1 cm to 4 cms in diameter. The contribution to the Cyclamen society seed exchange is not mine.
Many thanks for this background info, Tony. If the seedling that has just emerged has a leaf as good as the one you show in photo 2, I'll be happy enough!
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Re reply 479, previous page - photo cyclamen graecum goynuk.jpg
What a great photo to show the natural variation - no two alike- the magic of plants!
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thanks for the reply Steve and thanks for the pics Tony.
Does anyone have pics of the Monte Smith form either in cultivation or even better in the wld?
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Does anyone have pics of the Monte Smith form either in cultivation or even better in the wild?
Mark, there's a photo of one of Ian Robertson's plants here: http://www.alpinegardensociety.net/plants/joint-rock/awards/jointrockmeeting/Joint+Rock+Meeting+Loughborough+October+/62/ (http://www.alpinegardensociety.net/plants/joint-rock/awards/jointrockmeeting/Joint+Rock+Meeting+Loughborough+October+/62/)
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Does anyone have pics of the Monte Smith form either in cultivation or even better in the wld?
Cyclamen graecum anatolicum
Two (A & B) are from Peter Moore, the third (C) is from Pat Nichols. All are about 15 years old. B has never been floriferous.
If I remember, there are some pics of wild plants on Monte Smith on the Cyclamen Society website.
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thanks Steve, of course you are right, there are a number of pics here.
http://www.cyclamen.org/graecum_set.html (http://www.cyclamen.org/graecum_set.html)
If I have time (and the light) I'll take a few pics here although I think the "Monte Smith" form I have (and if it is) is not great this year and more interesting than beautiful even when it's having a good year. Curious, most of the other graecum are in fine form this year.
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Plants from Monte Smith produce some of the most compact and attractive leaf forms with great variation. This is true only of plants at the top of the site on the exposed cliff top,further down the site under the cliff and trees this is not the case. In the picture reading the numbers left to right from the top the following are from the top of the site from my own seed. 19-20-24-25-27-28=29.
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I find these illustrations of the variations quite mesmerising and most instructive - thanks for sharing, Pat. 8)
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Pat - very interesting to see the variation from this single source. My 3 plants from Monte Smith differ significantly in leaf colour & flower shape but hardly at all in leaf pattern.
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thanks Pat, here are a couple of pics of my possible anatolicum and secondly a possible one from Monte Smith. Both from memory grow leaves from multiple evenly distributed tiny trunks
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thanks Pat, here are a couple of pics of my possible anatolicum and secondly a possible one from Monte Smith. Both from memory grow leaves from multiple evenly distributed tiny trunks
My gut feeling is that both are anatolicum as for monte smith it is not really possible to be sure it is just as likely they both may be turkish.
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thanks Pat. I seem to remember the "Monte Smith" had a collection number, it was from Cyclamen Society seed I think but it wasn't a CSE collection. I'll need to remember to go and have a look in the light.
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I have two plants from "Monte Smith " (from seed that I collected overthere ) and they both look much the same....
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Plants from Monte Smith produce some of the most compact and attractive leaf forms with great variation. This is true only of plants at the top of the site on the exposed cliff top,further down the site under the cliff and trees this is not the case. In the picture reading the numbers left to right from the top the following are from the top of the site from my own seed. 19-20-24-25-27-28=29.
Within this variation are some magnificent forms Patt . Many thanks for sharing this and splendid idea and good job to make this picture !
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Last time I visited Monte Smith C. graecum don't look that healthy to me .....In my opinion they where suffering ....
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Another spot in Rhodos where they grow ....
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Superb pictures that show the extremely harsh environment in which they grow on Rhodes. Thank you
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Plants from Monte Smith produce some of the most compact and attractive leaf forms with great variation. This is true only of plants at the top of the site on the exposed cliff top,further down the site under the cliff and trees this is not the case. In the picture reading the numbers left to right from the top the following are from the top of the site from my own seed. 19-20-24-25-27-28=29.
Pat, what a great photo to illustrate the leaf variation in C. graecum. Are the first two rows candicum?
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Where would you place this C. graecum from the CS circa the very late 1980's?
johnw
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Pat, what a great photo to illustrate the leaf variation in C. graecum. Are the first two rows candicum?
Well spotted Steve all candicum
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Where would you place this C. graecum from the CS circa the very late 1980's?
johnw
My guess would be ssp graecum
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Hello Pat - In my post above (484) I showed a plant (A) obtained from Peter as Cyclamen graecum anatolicum (Monte Smith form). On the basis of the flower shape I have wondered for some time if this might be subsp. candicum. What do you think?
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Hello Pat - In my post above (484) I showed a plant (A) obtained from Peter as Cyclamen graecum anatolicum (Monte Smith form). On the basis of the flower shape I have wondered for some time if this might be subsp. candicum. What do you think?
I would be pretty sure this plant is anatolicum,attached is a picture of typical candicum for comprarison.
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thanks Pat. I seem to remember the "Monte Smith" had a collection number, it was from Cyclamen Society seed I think but it wasn't a CSE collection. I'll need to remember to go and have a look in the light.
Mark - here's some graecum anatolicum seedlings from a CSE plant (ex. CSE 91326, collected from the Monte Smith site).
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I would be pretty sure this plant is anatolicum,attached is a picture of typical candicum for comprarison.
Thanks Pat.
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well Pat, I looked at the label and the collectors number is "PN 981/47" - I'm guessing that's you!
Given that it's always been very compact I think it probably is the right seed in the packet. Looks like my other "anatolicum" is possibly also Monte Smith form but I'll leave it just labelled "anatolicum". I don't think either have flowered although I've probably had them over a decade.
thanks Steve, those do look very healthy (and big!) compared to my plants.
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well Pat, I looked at the label and the collectors number is "PN 981/47" - I'm guessing that's you!
Given that it's always been very compact I think it probably is the right seed in the packet. Looks like my other "anatolicum" is possibly also Monte Smith form but I'll leave it just labelled "anatolicum". I don't think either have flowered although I've probably had them over a decade.
thanks Steve, those do look very healthy (and big!) compared to my plants.
Pn 98/147 is my seed from monte smith and is the first seed I ever collected and numbered 147 being the number of my house which seemed a good place to start. Nice to know it is still around.
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Now I am wondering how is the probability about getting hybrids between C. rohlfsianum and C. persicum autumnale - they are not growing far away from eachother and flowering at the same time this year.
Checking some seedlings yesterday...
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The leaf on the left looks interesting, Hans.
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I checked the numbers on my Cyclamen graecum plants from CSE seed and realise I have a few from Monte Smith from CSE 91326 sown in October 2004.
The first two are the same plant flowering on October 20th and with more leaves on November 24th. I have another two but they are just thinking about producing leaves now.
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I checked the numbers on my Cyclamen graecum plants from CSE seed and realise I have a few from Monte Smith from CSE 91326 sown in October 2004.
The first two are the same plant flowering on October 20th and with more leaves on November 24th. I have another two but they are just thinking about producing leaves now.
There is a cse plant collected on monte smith that always produces flowers identical to candicum and this may be what you have here. I am not sure of the collection number but these flowers sure look like candicum.
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I will try to get more info from martyn denney about the the collection number of the candicum like plant.
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There is a cse plant collected on monte smith that always produces flowers identical to candicum and this may be what you have here. I am not sure of the collection number but these flowers sure look like candicum.
Hi Pat, as I have a pot of seedlings from the same collection number I was also interested to see the flower on Roma's plant! You've noted before that Monte Smith is steeply sloping. Checking the Field Notes, all it says is that 91326 was from site 91/14 - Monte Smith - and that C. graecum grew in three types of microclimate:
1. Pockets and crevices in conglomerate.
2. Amidst dense shrubby and herbaceous vegetation in full sun.
3. On virtually bare soil covered with needle litter in deep shade below Pinus and Thuja.
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And there's a photo of the parent plant here: http://www.cyclamen.org/cse_set.html (http://www.cyclamen.org/cse_set.html)
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Perhaps my memory is not so good amd the plant I am referring to came from the 98 field trip. Either way there is a picture under 98/21D on the website of monte smith as I remember it and where I would have collected seed.
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Very few Cyclamen graecum still in flower but here are two C.graecum ssp candicum with flowers still hanging on.
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Very few Cyclamen graecum still in flower but here are two C.graecum ssp candicum with flowers still hanging on.
Hanging on perhaps, but still looking good though, Melvyn. My graecum have finished but it'll soon to be time for the winter and spring flowerers to take over and there's always some foliage interest, of course. These young rohlfsianum leaves caught my eye today.
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Attractive rohlfsianum leaves there, Steve. My plants have rather plain leaves. No 1 and no 3 (not shown) have similar leaves and paler flowers and are from the same seed parent. I used to have 2 of the darker one but it picked up a vine weevil when it spent too long in the greenhouse after a show.
These pictures were taken on November 9th.
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Which of these leaves is correct for Cyclamen coum albissimum 'Lake Effect' ? or is it variable? They haven't flowered yet so I do not know if the flower is right.
C. coum albissimum 'George Bisson' looks to be hederifolium :(
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My plants have rather plain leaves. No 1 and no 3 (not shown) have similar leaves and paler flowers and are from the same seed parent. I used to have 2 of the darker one but it picked up a vine weevil when it spent too long in the greenhouse after a show.
Hi Roma - thought you'd be interested to see the leaves of my rohlfsianum plants grown from Cruickshank Botanic Gardens seed (which I think you donated quite some time ago now!). In the first photo, the plant half in shot at the top is from my own seed, the rest are all from CBG.
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Which of these leaves is correct for Cyclamen coum albissimum 'Lake Effect' ? or is it variable? They haven't flowered yet so I do not know if the flower is right.
C. coum albissimum 'George Bisson' looks to be hederifolium :(
I haven't grown 'Lake Effect' from seed so I don't know how reliably true-to-type the seedlings are, nor the variability of the leaves. But here's one I bought from a nursery last year for comparison. I wouldn't have thought the pewter leaf seedling in your pot would qualify as 'Lake Effect' even if it turns out to have white flowers?
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Thanks for the pictures, Steve. The Cyclamen rohlfsianum from CBG seed look similar to mine apart from the last one. I must get round to going in there and getting pictures of the original plants.
I thought the pewter C. coum was unlikely to be 'Lake Effect'.
I am hoping someone will compile a guide to Cyclamen cultivars showing leaves and flowers before I get too old to be still growing them ;D.
Why is Cyclamen cilicium 'Bowles Variety' still in seed lists when noone knows what it looked like? When I grew it the leaves were unremarkable and the flowers varied from pale pink to white with a pink nose (my favourite) to pure white.
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Beautiful C. rohlfsianum leaves Roma and Steve! I agree in doubting the pewter coums could be 'Lake Effect', but if it would flower pure white it should be fabulous!
Here are among others still Cyclamen hederifolium crassifolium in flower.
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Here are among others still Cyclamen hederifolium crassifolium in flower.
Some very good leafforms Hans !
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Some very good leafforms Hans !
Seconded! The leaves in the bottom photo look similar to ones I have on crassifolium from Kithira and Zakinthos.
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Thanks Kris and Steve, both are ex CSE 93073. (not sure where this collection was)
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Hans, you may find the following link of interest:-
http://www.cyclamen.org/cse_set.html (http://www.cyclamen.org/cse_set.html)
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Hello gang of SRGC!
I picked up this C. coum "Ashwood Snowflake" last winter and it looks very similar to C.coum CSE88397 - does anyone know if I could recognise this as white versio nof CSE88397 or are they completely different varieties? ??? Thanks!
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C. coum "Ashwood Snowflake" has been on my wishlist since Diane showed it a couple of years ago :
http://www.srgc.net/forum/index.php?topic=4752.msg137735#msg137735 (http://www.srgc.net/forum/index.php?topic=4752.msg137735#msg137735)
Seeing your beautiful neat plant I am again convinced of its charm. :)
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I picked up this C. coum "Ashwood Snowflake" last winter and it looks very similar to C.coum CSE88397 - does anyone know if I could recognise this as white versio nof CSE88397 or are they completely different varieties? ??? Thanks!
Naoto - lovely foliage on your 'Ashwood Snowflake'. Those early Cyclamen Society expeditions introduced some really good leaf forms of C. coum including 88397 but, 25 years down the line and countless generations later, I'm not sure that any plant now really qualifies as eg ex 88397 - the parent plants are long gone, I think. And didn't one of the BSBE collected plants (from 1963!) also have a silver leaf with a dark christmas tree pattern? Snowflake is an Ashwood's selection and, as they grow most of the cyclamen species and varieties that are available, including those other coum whites - 'Golan Heights' and 'George Bisson' - who knows which plants were used in the breeding programme? But I suspect there's some cse plant genes in the mix! One of the West Midlands forumists more familiar with Ashwood's cyclamen breeding work may be able to comment further.
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And as many forumists will know, CSE 90417 is the parent plant of C. coum 'Golan Heights'.
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...... didn't one of the BSBE collected plants (from 1963!) also have a silver leaf with a dark christmas tree pattern?........
Steve - yes it did. I still grow a plant obtained years ago from Peter as BSBE 518. The flowers are quite dark magenta. Self-sown seedlings from this are very variable & include pure silver leaf plants. 'Ashwood Snowflake' has very attractive leaves but in my experience this leaf form is not particularly unusual; I presume the name refers to the colour of the flowers.
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@SJW-san
Thank you for your information - it really helps. So far "A.Snowflake" is my favourite coum (so far!) and I'd like to create a carpet of this in the raised bed in my garden someday.
@Mr. Webster
I think you're right - the leaves look nice but not so unusal, and what's more, the flowers weren't pure albissimum - I put it "between white and blushed pink". Let's see how it will look next year (there's no sign of flowers at all right now..... :'( )
By the way, is there anyone who could tell me where I can purchase mirablie Tilebarn Ann? I've been looking for it but no success, and my seedlings (which I got from the CS show last year) look very sad (only 4 out of 10 seedlings have been surviving), so I may have to give up......
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This self-seeded Cyclamen coum is growing under a Malus. No idea where the parent plant came from, but the leaves look similar to those discussed above.
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By the way, is there anyone who could tell me where I can purchase mirablie Tilebarn Ann? I've been looking for it but no success, and my seedlings (which I got from the CS show last year) look very sad (only 4 out of 10 seedlings have been surviving), so I may have to give up......
Green Ice Nursery has 'Tilebarn Anne' listed on their website. You mentioned in an earlier post that you'd spoken to Jan B at the Wisley autumn cyclamen show. He normally attends the late Spring cyclamen show at Wisley and if you contacted him he could probably bring one over for you to pick up on the day. I've found the quickest way to get 'Tilebarn Anne' from seed is to sow a packet labelled as 'Tilebarn Nicholas' ;) The pewter leaf mirabile photo in your post about the Wisley show in October is one of my plants and that came from a packet of 'Tilebarn Nicholas' seed - they seem to pop up quite often (I think Peter Moore developed 'Tilebarn Anne' from 'Tilebarn Nicholas'?). Not that I label my plant as 'Tilebarn Anne'...
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Nice coum leaves
Cyclamen x wellensiekii from society seed
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Green Ice Nursery has 'Tilebarn Anne' listed on their website
<---snip!---->
Yeah, I noticed that.....the problem is that I am going back to Japan next month and will come back to the UK on 7th Feb - the day before the early spring show at Wisley so that I may not be able to make it (I'm sure I'd be very knackered after 12-hour flight). I kind of expected Ashwood would have some, but they've been sold-out over the last two years or so..... :'(
Talking of seedlings, this is the result of mirabile "Tilebarn Nicholas"
[attach=1]
I purchased the seeds at the CE autumn show last year - 10 seeds in the bag and they all germinated but two died later.
[attach=2]
One of them is really pinky and the colour still stays even after 3 weeks - perhaps I should cherish this one the most.
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Naoto - I don't think Jan comes to the February (winter) show, but he's usually at the Spring show, which next year is on 29 March.
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Cyclamen elegans
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@master SJW
Thank you for your reply - that's really helpful! I'll skip the early show and will go to the late spring show, then.
P.S. Nice elegans @ Roma!
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I'd forgotten to check the Cyclamen graecum seed-pods on one of the plants in the rock garden till it was too late, :'(
cheers
fermi
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Fermi - it'll be interesting to see where in the garden graecum seedlings start appearing!
Which has me pondering about seed dispersal mechanisms and seed sowing depth. I know Ian Y is a great advocate of sowing many (but not all) bulb seeds at depth, including cyclamen. From an earlier bulb log: There has been a lot of research into how to sow cyclamen seeds and how to treat them to optimise germination; , I am not a cyclamen specialist but I have my own method. One of the methods written about is the requirement of darkness before germination will occur - I provide this by sowing the seeds half way down a pot. Cyclamen seeds are coated in a sticky substance to encourage ants to distribute them and like other bulbous seed that is ant distributed it has evolved to germinate well if buried under ground - so that is just what I do.
I can see that the elaiosome surrounding bulb seeds attracts eg ants, and they will carry them away from the parent plant thus minimising competition for light and nutrients. That clearly makes evolutionary sense. But do ants then drag them underground to a depth of 3"-4" or more before scraping off/eating the elaisome food source? Why would they do this? If, say, they take them back to the ant nest to store or consume there then presumably you'd find prodigious bulb seed germination around and on ant nests. Is this the case? Has anyone observed this? There's obviously benefits to sowing many bulb species deep - a dark, more stable environment and less chance of drying out before germination, for example - but perhaps the main one is that the seedlings then don't have to expend extra energy using contractile roots to pull them down to their optimal depth? Ian Y has written about this many times, of course. But is the benefit actually just for the grower in that it can shorten the time to first flowering? Presumably, contractile roots evolved to take the bulbs down to the right depth - if it's the dispersal agent, eg ants, that buries the seed to a decent depth then wouldn't there be less of an evolutionary driver for bulbs to develop contractile roots?
Sorry if this sounds a little dry and academic but thought it would be an interesting discussion to open up. For the record, with cyclamen seed I surface sow, cover thinly with more compost, and top off with grit.
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Steve
For the record I do exactly the same as you and achieve around 90 percent germination , it is not rocket science and nor should it be. Where's the fun in that ?. Cyclamen are so easy from seed and what mother nature does and what we do in cultivation should not be compared they are totally different. If you try to imitate the former you will usually fail which I have found out to my cost many times in the past.
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Too close an attempt to mimic "nature" might well be a frequent cause of failure - ask anyone who has tried growing autumn gentians in standing water, as they have been reported as being seen in the wild. The better question in that case is how often did that happen, for how long and were the plants still alive the next year!!
Mostly when we are sowing seeds "deep" it is half way down an 9 or 11 cm pot - so around a depth of two inches, probably. The cyclamen seed scattered willy-nilly on the gravel in the garden will germinate, though they seem to like it better when they are given a better covering. In a pot, of course the conditions are completely unnatural and so deeper sowing may give them a happier start to life in Aberdeen.
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Maggi
I have never tried to grow anything standing in water, that sounds very uncomfortable and could lead to trench foot. I guess by the time my seeds are covered with grit they will be 2cms deep but I am unconvinced about the need of darkness, I know of people who germinate cyclamen seed on damp tissue in full light with great success. But stick with whatever works for you is my advice and don't over complicate things for no reason, it has to be enjoyable as well.
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Very wise of you , Pat - up here you'd be lost to hypothermia before the trench foot got to you......
;) ;D ;D
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You are right maggi I don't do the cold thing or the wet and windy thing but looking at the forecast I don't think I can avoid it in the next couple of days. Why couldn't I have been born in Greece? .
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The last flowers are fading on Cyclamen cyprium but the winter flowerers are starting.
Cyclamen coum album flowering 14 months after sowing
2&3 Cyclamen coum in the garden
Cyclamen elegans
First flower on Cyclamen alpinum
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Very nice Roma.
My cyprium are well over now. Coum in the garden in bud, but one isolated plant in a north facing bed has been in flower for weeks and alpinum in the greenhouse also in bud.
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The last flowers are fading on Cyclamen cyprium but the winter flowerers are starting.
Yes. my cyprium have gone over, apart from this one in a 6cm pot. It's been quite floriferous for a small plant. Pity the foliage isn't better!
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Cyclamen coum album flowering 14 months after sowing
That'a good going, Roma. This pot of C. coum 'Golan Heights' has been slower: first flowering from a January 2012 sowing.
The flowers on this C. alpinum have really grown over the past two weeks.
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C. coum in the greenhouse will be coming into their own soon. A really cheering sight on a miserable winter day!
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I've never been sure what C. coum 'kuznetsovii' should look like - whether it's a specific variety or a strain with leaf and flower colour variation. There's a photo on the Cyclamen Society website labelled: Cyclamen coum ssp. coum 'kuznetsovii' - the form from the Crimea. (I think this was taken at Tilebarn Nursery). This matches one of the plants I have. Thereagain, I also have a silver leaf plant, probably from the same packet of CS seeds....