Scottish Rock Garden Club Forum
Plant Identification => Plant Identification Questions and Answers => Topic started by: Paul T on November 18, 2007, 10:07:55 AM
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Howdy All,
There were a couple of open gardens over the weekend for our local Horticulture Society members and I came across an unknown plant (to me at least) in the garden. The owner was nice enough to give me a piece and I have photographed the flowers to try to work out what it is......
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The leaves and stems are reminiscent of some of the more species style taller Penstemon but I am fairly sure it isn't one of those. It has a flower form I have never come across before, with the style sitting above the "tube" of the flower (Yes, I realise it isn't a tube, but I think you know what I mean), and the upper petals appear to be "crossed" but only overlap to make it appear so. Flowers appear in the leaf axils up the stem and in bud have a yellow tip which fades as the flower opens and ages to solid orange. Individual flowers are approximately an inch and a half long. The plant grows to about 2 feet tall or so, and appears to be stoloniferous, with thick rather fleshy underground stems, but no actual tubers or anything like that as far as I could tell. I rather like it, but would definitely keep it controlled. I'd love to know what it is, jsut so I could find out more about it.
Any suggested names and/or information on the plant would be greatly appreciated. 8)
Thanks in anticipation.
Edited 1/1/2008 to update subject to reflect identification
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It looks vaguely like some sort of mutant lobelia. Any pictures of the plant/foliage?
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Carlo,
At first glance I thought it was a Penstemon, to give you an idea of the overall "type" of plant we're talking about. Once of those penstemons with the elongated stems and much thinner flowers than the modern hybrids. I can photograph a flower stem for you if you'd like, and also the roots etc as I haven't actually planted them as yet in case something was needed for diagnosis. Lobelia is not something that would have sprung to mind.
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Carlo et al,
Excuse the backbround, but I just took some pics of the flowerstems I had in a vase..... sitting on our washing machine. A bit too dark outside to be much use.... it is after 10pm here after all. ;D
So, some more pics.....
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This is just to show the appearance of the leaves and buds etc. Buds are wilted a bit.... I don't think it is really designed to be a cut flower.
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This shows the more mature stem appearance, plus the elongated floral stems. There is without fail only a single flower per leaf axil, starting only 6 inches or so off the ground.
That any more help in diagnosis? ???
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A Fuschia? It's really early in the morning here...that's a wild guess...
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Carlo,
Yes it is reminiscent of a Fuchsia in a lot of ways, but are there stoloniferous Fuchsias with a flower structure like that? Thinking about it more I think it was more like 3 foot tall, not 2 foot tall, I didn't measure it at the time. It had run throughout a garden amongst everything else growing there. The pieces the owner lifted for me were next to the driveway where they were exposed on a bit of a bank that I think had been cleared off at some point and then the roots had reshot from there. This one is definitely a survivor, that's for sure.
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Take a look at this:
http://www.rhs.org.uk/WhatsOn/gardens/rosemoor/archive/rosemoorpomaug.asp
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I've looked at other Lobelia tupa, but the leaves aren't exactly right...and more importantly the flower presentation is all wrong.
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Carlo,
The flowers do look related. As you say, L. tupa has a raceme of flowers, whereas mine has single axillary flowers, just to rule this out as a colour form of that species. Also definitely not felted leaves on my plant either.
It'll be interesting to see what others come up with for this. I am still leaning towards some sort of Penstemon relative, but that isn't an "educated lean". ;)
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Nearly sure its a lobelia, or at least that family. I have L.laxiflora var. angustifolia.
Just googled it and found this link to a photo of one that is pretty similar. http://images.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http://pics.davesgarden.com/pics/pdb_Ulrich_2003-07-05_1057442116465_tn.jpg&imgrefurl=http://davesgarden.com/guides/pf/b/Lobeliaceae/Lobelia/none/cultivar/0/&h=100&w=100&sz=4&hl=en&start=2&tbnid=TpdpxMdkeaOYlM:&tbnh=82&tbnw=82&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dlobelia%2Blaxiflora%2Bvar.%2Bangustifolia%26gbv%3D2%26svnum%3D10%26hl%3Den%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26channel%3Ds%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official%26sa%3DG
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A shorter link than Christine's! http://davesgarden.com/guides/pf/b/Lobeliaceae/Lobelia/none/cultivar/0/
I believe this to be a Lobelia... just a question of which Lobelia !
Not unlike this one, http://davesgarden.com/guides/pf/b/Lobeliaceae/Lobelia/none/cultivar/0/http://davesgarden.com/guides/pf/go/104992/ though again, the leaves appear more felted than Paul's version.
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Well, who knew there were all these Lobelia out there that I never even knew existed. Coolo!! 8)
Yes, looking at the pic on the Daves Garden site it definitely does appear mine is a Lobelia, and obviously fairly closely related to L. laxiflora by the look of it.
Now, anyone care to narrow it down further? You've already helped immensely in that we at least have a family name now, and most definitely one I would never have thought of. Thanks peoples!! ;D
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I'm inclining more to L. excelsa http://davesgarden.com/guides/pf/go/104992/
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Except from the pics that species has much more "bunched" flowers with a quite thick head of them, whereas mine is much more spread out and "airy" than that, much more like the laxiflora. I think the flowers are closer to laxiflora as far as I can tell in appearance too?
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Been having a search around more more L. laxiflora pix.... I think that may be it after all, or a close approximation! Fascinating plants, lobelias, eh? What about the giant tre-like ones .... a long way from the little annual bedding plants we see so many of in shades of blue!! 8)
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First saw this one on a garden visit to Sussex a few years ago, and bought it straight away. It was a great big clump in the garden I visited, and looked wonderful. It does spread stoloniferously for me, but not enough to make a clump. I'm either too far north weatherwise or else it doesn't like sandy soil. I think the latter really, as most lobelias I have need more moisture than I can give them so they don't thrive. But it does give me a few flowers every year and is hardy here ....
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Chris,
I'll check with the people I got mine from, but I got the impression the garden it was in was a "left to itself" type garden, and therefore not watered much at all. It was definitely a full sun garden, and everything was overgrown amongst each other so I would imagine there was a lot of competition for any water. Maybe your problem is more of sun rather than not enough water? When I saw it the other day it was flowering madly, pretty much every stem had flowers all up it. Because it tended to run freely it wasn't a thick clump or anything like that, more like a colony that was spread amongst everything else. I don't know how long they've had it (but will ask) so I don't know how quickly it multiplied, but it was in various places amongst things over a couple of metres wide in total, probably more. I'd be putting it in the "can't kill" basket judging by what I saw in this garden, but looks can be deceiving of course. I note that the synonym of Lobelia laxiflora is L. mexicana, so I would have been assuming (perhaps incorrectly) that it may have come from a hotter and drier climate?
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The big lobelias really do like lots of water but all the same, survive with much less, just growing to a lesser height. My L. tupa is almost under the eaves on the sunny side of the house and is bone dry except when I remember to throw the coffee grounds on it. It grows to about a metre and flowers wonderfully. But the same plant in Dunedin Bot. Gardens in a perennial border, grows to at least 2 metres. Mine suckers but in a restrained way, thank goodness. It's not looking too brilliant right now because the dog we're dog-sitting has taken to lying on top of it in the warmth. Paul, even though in a sunny garden, yours could be quite moist because of the closeness of the surrounding growth.
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Lesley,
That's possible, but it is certainly the drier part of the garden as it is right at the top of a long slope the house/garden is built on. I will ask the owners about how much water the area gets, but you're right there would be some insulation from everything else, so the actual surface doesn't get the heat of the sun either, which would make a big difference to moisture levels in our climate.
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I'm beginning to think you have a different lobelia to mine then, mine certainly grows by underground stolons, but stays fairly clumpy, and the stand I saw in Suffolk was about 4ft tall and about as much in diameter, but yes, with blooms on the end of every stem. Up here it only gets to about 2ft. Must try moving some to a sunnier spot and seeing if that helps. The chap in Suffolk had his in a very nice soil near a pond, and it looked as if the area was quite damp all of the time.
I grow L. tupa too Lesley, mine only reaches about 2ft but flowers nevertheless. I think it may do a bit better now I've removed the six foot high and wide phormium though.... it was trying to grow behind it in shade and dry soil. Should improve some next year I hope. it too seems to shift around underground.
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any L. tupa I see over hear easily reach 8 feet
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Yes, Mark, I've seen them in their glory like that. And you get all the rain before it reaches Northumberland so although you have the enormity of them, I can go look at them without binoculars and an umbrella.....lol
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Carlo,
Yes it is reminiscent of a Fuchsia in a lot of ways, but are they stoloniferous.
Not exactly stoloniferous but when I bought my house, there was a large one too close to it so I dug it out and it shot from the roots I had left in !!
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Fuchsias - or some, anyway - will grow from root cuttings.