Scottish Rock Garden Club Forum
Bulbs => Galanthus => Topic started by: Tim Harberd on January 05, 2013, 12:24:23 PM
-
Big Large Huge Enormous Giant
Snowdrop catalogues seem to spray these words around fairly randomly without any qualification! Thinking about it, most selected flowers are likely to be bigger than their immediate peers. But may actually be quite small fish in the bigger pool of other selected clones!
We started to collect some data in the thread ‘’Galanthus in December’’. I decided to collate that info. here and add Mrs Macnamara, who has finally got round to opening, despite the lack of proper sunshine.
Alanja Yayla Height 32cm/34cm Outer 2.5cm
Crimea huge 1&2 Height ? Outer 3.4cm (est)
Mrs Macnamara Height 23.5cm Outer 3.0cm
Please feel free to add the statistics of any other Big/Large/Huge/Enormous/Giant snowdrop. (With or without a photo) For the purposes of elimination, I’d be particularly interested in the statistics of any that are catalogued with these words.. but aren’t!!
Tim DH
-
Tim i was given a monster last year at a snowdrop sale,i have called it Pams giant(not officially just on my label) after the lady who gave it me,i will get dimensions,i will say Big Boy is named well.
-
There is scope for confusion here. For example, when flowering "Colossus" appears as an ordinary-sized snowdrop but it was so-named because the foliage grows large later in the season.
For that matter, the 'wild' plicatus x nivalis hybrids that grow around here often produce very tall leaves and very ordinary-sized flowers - which is the last thing you would want in a cultivar.
-
'Giant' must often be relative to what you know. So 'Gravesend Giant', which was given to me by Eric Jarrett, certainly isn't by comparison to 'Big Boy' (!) but I only know this because I have the 'Snowdrop Book' and have become a Galanthophile. 'Hunton Giant', which was found by David Way, doesn't have especially large flowers but like Alan says has dramatic foliage. Many people must get excited by seeing 'large' snowdrops locally because all they are used to are huge drifts of nivalis! Scope here for more snowdrop lovers? (Or sometimes more pedantry? - it all depends on how much you know).
-
You don´t need G plicatus or G elwesii to get/find bigger flowers. Here is a normal G nivalis: outers 3,5cm
-
Even Hagen's ruler is a Galanthus species :D ;D :D
-
Hello all, our snowdrops have started to flower the usual RGO just after Christmas and Mrs McNamara nearly open, the pictures today are G Paradise Giant, G plicatus Castle early three different ones will get more pics maybe today and look out for the biggest flowers, cheers Ian the Christie kind.
-
I cannot help noticing the rather striped-looking leaves on the Castle Early. I hardly dare say this to such a knowledgeable bulb-grower as Ian but I would be a bit worried if I saw that on a snowdrop because I have been told that this is associated with a virus infection and that such infections might be transmissible.
-
Oh Brian, I needed some time to understand your words ??? ;D.
Normally I have a galanthus ruler. It is only 1m and has ten 10cm segments :).
-
Sorry Hagen, I meant that your ruler has G.Lindenbl... which is like saying G.sandersii or something ::)
-
Brian, do you have a small ruler = galanthus ruler ;)?
-
Indeed I do Hagen :)
-
Following a request in the January thread to measure my 'Gerard Parker' - I went out with my tape measure and took some quick pics of any that look a bit bigger today than the others.
I have never measured a snowdrop petal before so my quick run round with my DIY tape measure is pretty unscientific - but hopefully helpful to the thread.
I know that the petals get bigger during the weeks they flower and things are different from year to year - so please do not think of these as absolute measurements - just what they measure in a small Kentish garden on February 1st 2013.
1 - 31mm 'John Gray'
2 - 31mm 'Epiphany'
3 - 32mm 'Rogers Rough'
Edit: - opps - I forgot to post the pics! ::)
-
And the larger ones here today - I would think that there may be bigger over the next few weeks.
1 - 'Gerard Parker' - 34mm - should get bigger as has not been out for long.
2 - 'Naughton' - 35mm - been out a few days so should get bigger.
3 - 'Penelope Ann' - 40mm - I thing full size as she has been in flower a while.
-
John, 30mm are good but not large. Especially G. elwesii and plicatus can create bigger flowers.
And we have to see the flower in relation to the whole plant.
-
John, 30mm are good but not large. Especially G. elwesii and plicatus can create bigger flowers.
And we have to see the flower in relation to the whole plant.
Hi Hagen
As I mentioned - it is something I have never done before - but as it was asked for I did it. ;D
-
Hi John,
Thanks for doing it! Since we all ‘re-size’ our photos, the flowers all look the same size, so its nice to have a bit of data.
Penelope Anne is a new name to me… No photo in Judy’s gallery but Snowdropinfo has it… with some nice fat greenfly to gauge the scale by!!! :-X
Any advances on 40mm???
Tim DH
-
Sorry Tim I never spot aphids until the photos are edited
-
Hi Folks,
The (scentless) Sam Arnotts on my windowsill responded positively to this morning’s weak sunshine, so I thought I’d measure them:
26cm high & 30mm petals.
Atkinsii is also listed in some catalogues as a giant:
20cm high 30mm petals.
I don’t think I’ve ever cut a vase of Atkinsii… the flowers are too variable (in my opinion) to merit close inspection!
Tim DH
-
Tim, can you clarify how you measure the height.
-
You cant beat S Arnott can you Tim?
At the Garden House' snowdrop day 3 years ago ( I think) Matt Bishop had placed a pot containing between about 5 or 6 S Arnott on each of the tables in the restaurant. In the warmth they had opened up as yours. They looked beautiful & were for sale at £5 a pot.
Outside there was a very large area of just S Arnott & it was a magnificent display.
I can understand buzzin' off all over the country, heart racing, hoping to get the latest must have snowdrop, yet a large display of the old'uns still takes some beating. ;D
-
Hi Alan,
I use a fairly rough measure... soil level to top of highest flower. Earlier, on the December thread there was some discussion about what constitutes 'Big' etc..... For me its not just petal length, but I can judge most other things from a photograph, except stem length!
Tim DH
-
The two largest snowdrops in our garden, and in this arrangement, are 'Bertram Anderson' and 'Gerard Parker'. In both the outer tepals are just under 40mm. They look tremendous in the garden and it's hard to imagine any much larger...
('Penelope Ann' - with no 'e' I think - is named for Ann Borrill in Norfolk, ? originally distributed by Mike Smith of Hythe Alpines).
-
Hi Mike,
I'm very fond of my Sam Arnotts..... even tho' they don't smell! It does intrigue me that all the catalogues mention a strong scent or 'honey' fragrance. Is this a case of 'lazy journalism', where no-one thinks to go back & check the facts? Even a clump of 50 flowers in a corner of my small greenhouse fail, on an olfactory level, to perform!!
Tim DH
-
The two largest snowdrops in our garden ...
But not the tallest. Having visited Tim recently, I can attest to the fact that he also has some very tall snowdrops, but with flowers that are not particularly large.
-
A beautiful vaseful Tim - I love seeing (and smelling) a group of a dozen or so 'drops displayed just like that. 8)
-
('Penelope Ann' - with no 'e' I think - is named for Ann Borrill in Norfolk, ? originally distributed by Mike Smith of Hythe Alpines).
Correct on all points Tim.
-
Hi Folks,
In the April thread Ian Mcenery has recently posted a picture of Fieldgate Superb, with ''outers over 4cm long''.. So I thought I'd post a note about it here.
Doeas anyone else want to add a late entry to this years BLHEG collection?
Tim DH
-
These are rather big? :)
-
There are very big flowers with a wide petal. 23-24 mm
-
Not the largest bloom, but with 3,5 cm also very large.
It's a late elwesii with nice face and compact growth. ( height : 12 cm)
-
Galanthus plicatus
I think that in this case we are deaingl with natural polyploids.
This year it was very dry. Bulbs have no normal weight.
-
Hi There,
I asked Glen Chantry’s advice about BIG snowdrops and Wol reckoned I wouldn’t be disappointed by PHD 33643 (aka Peter Davis)
I’m not! First year of flowering 36mm & 22cm. Obviously data from one bulb is not very reliable, but already I can’t wait for next year!!
Tim DH
-
I quite agree Tim, it is one of my favourites, although not yet in flower here. It really ought to have a proper name!
-
One of my favourites too, mine is starting to form a clump.... ;D. Great, large flowers it has !!
I agree Brian, it really has to get a proper name !!
-
Today I made a measurement of 'Kencot Kali', which is said to be the longest-petalled green tipped variety ever found according to the list of Monksilver Nursery.
The outers are 40 mm and might still grow on ...
Galanthus elwesii 'Kencot Kali'
-
That's amazing Thomas
-
wonderful , Thomas !!!!!!
Is it a plicatus?
-
Today’s sunshine encouraged Mrs Macnamara to open…(31mm petals on a young flower)...With the Season now well underway I thought I’d collate a list of the BLEHG records posted last year. I’ve only included named varieties (Ru & Hagen posted some BIG un-named ones.)
H is soil level to the top of the highest flower.
P is the petal length.
Some Ps were reported as more…. Or less… than 4cm last year, so I’ve put a ? next to them.
My Sam Arnott (I’m fairly convinced) is not. So if anyone posts measurements for Sam Arnott, I’ll remove mine.
Atkinsii H 20cm P 30mm
Sam Isnott? H 26cm P 30mm
Epiphany H? P 31mm
John Gray H? P 31mm
Paradise Giant H? P 32mm
Rogers Rough H? P 32mm
Mrs Macnamara H 27cm P 35mm
Naughton H? P 35mm
Woodtown H? P 36mm
Gemini ex PC H? P 36mm
Kildare H? P 37mm
Bertram Anderson H20cm P 38mm
PHD 33643 H 22cm P 39mm
Gerard Parker H? P 39mm?
Peardrop H18cm? P40mm
Kencot Kali H? P 40mm
Excelsis H? P 40mm
Penelope Ann H? P 40mm
John Tomlinson H? P 40mm
Louise Ann Bromley H? P 40mm
Fieldgate Superb H? P 41mm?
Chantry Green Twins H? P 42mm
Glenorma H19cm P 43mm
Friar Tuck H? P45mm?
Margaret Owen H? P 46mm
Following Alan’s lead on the Early list, I’ll edit/update this list to incorporate any info. posted below
Tim DH
-
Today’s sunshine encouraged Mrs Macnamara to open…(31mm petals on a young flower)...With the Season now well underway I thought I’d collate a list of the BLEHG records posted last year. I’ve only included named varieties (Ru & Hagen posted some BIG un-named ones.)
I thought it made sense to combine this new thread with the previous year's one.
-
I think we need to make another separate topic - about dwarf snowdrops. Stable dwarf snowdrops, probably no less rare than the Giants. :)
-
I think we need to make another separate topic - about dwarf snowdrops. Stable dwarf snowdrops, probably no less rare than the Giants. :)
...and in many ways more attractive ;D
-
Happy Christmas!
Does anyone have a view on the correct time to measure a flower? A week after first opening, Mrs Macnamara has got to 35mm.
Here she is gracing the Christmas Dinner table.
Tim DH
-
Here is a provisional measurement for Glenorma. (35mm/19cm) A new acquisition. The flower size is quite impressive, given that the bulb size wasn’t! Hoping for great things next year!! Can anyone, who already has this established, offer better figures?
Tim DH
-
Tim, like you I did get a bulb this summer. Mine is just up and not flowering yet. Your picture looks great.
I can not wait to see flower the one I have over here, will take a while because all is still covered in snow :-X....
-
With permission, I copy below some observations from Glenchantry. I’ve up dated the list at reply#38 accordingly
Hi Tim
We were interested to see your post on Glenorma on the SRGC forum. Considering the size of the flower and stature of the whole plant the bulb is not that big compared to some of the large conker sized varieties! It will need good cultivation, and time to settle with you in order to reach its full potential. We find the flower expands as it matures and we have been enjoying watching this happen with the ones we have picked and brought inside. One measured yesterday was 42mm in length. It is our largest flowering snowdrop, and especially exceptional at this time of year.
Best regards
Wol and Sue
-
Glenorma :)
-
Glenorma does indeed grow with time!
Here it is three weeks after it first opened.
To my mind, the last few mms of length have been gained at the expense/loss of shape.
That’s not a complaint, just a comment, its looked superb for over a fortnight.
I’ll not add this length to the list…………….
(Balancing a camera and a ruler turns out to be an interesting trick.)
Tim DH
-
only for fun ;D
today is flowering my Pamianthe peruviana ...thats a real big flower !
pic 3 is for comparison a snowdrop ( Mrs. Mcnamara )
lenght of the Galanthus petal 3,0 cm
length of the Pamianthe petal 12,0 cm
maybe some Galanthus growers should try to cross Galanthus x Pamianthe ...thats should give interesting results :o
more pics are here :
http://www.srgc.net/forum/index.php?topic=12684.0 (http://www.srgc.net/forum/index.php?topic=12684.0)
Hans 8)
-
Here is PENELOPE ANN, it is a very big galanthus.
In 2012 I had the chance to meet the original PA. A very very friendly person with a nice garden. Good memories of them.
-
Here is PHD 33643, in its second season with me. 39mm outers. I approve of any cultivar which increases from one flower to four in a year.
My only criticism: It’s a bit short…. 16cms. It was much taller last year!
Apart from that, I cut a stem, and took it to see my parents. Turns out Dad knew Peter Hadland Davis… so that sparked a few anecdotes from the family’s Edinburgh period.
Tim DH
-
My last Biggie for this year: Bertram Anderson... here at 38mm & 20cm
Tim DH
-
Hi Tim, A very interesting thread, I had not considered this as a topic before. I don't know if this helps but I have just been and checked mine:
1. Glenorma (Sourced at Myddelton this year) 43mm
2. John Tomlinson (Resting bulb sourced last year) 40mm
I also have Richard Handscombe which is described by the originator as 'very large'. It has not flowered yet but I will let you know the size, if it would be useful.
-
Can anyone find a bigger one than this one that me and Alan Street found at Malvern in 2014?
-
These, pictured at Trentham, were said to be 14ft high - I had another pic, showing them towering over a large transit van, but I deleted it yesterday!
[attachimg=1]
Bet you're glad you don't have to get these in the post to customers! The postie is probably pretty relieved as well!
-
Hi Ingrid,
I’d be interested in your opinion & measurement of Richard Handscombe…. It was reported as having a 1 ¾ inch(!) petal last year.
Tim DH
-
Tim,
Here is my biggest flower sofar this year.
Picture of elwesii Margaret Owen (She'll live forever in my garden)
-
Here's my Margaret Owen this afternoon
-
This came to me from a local group member who had a large pot of it and a few spares for sale. He didn't have a name for it - lost label - so I'd be interested if anyone can have a stab at identifying it. It is certainly a biggie so belongs in this thread.
It grows to a good 15cm high, longer as the flower ages, the outers are round 40mm and the green mark on the inner is quite large. The leaves are also shown and the edges curl under slightly.
-
Hi Steve,
Thanks for introducing a new cultivar.
I've updated the list (Reply #38)
Any chance on providing a height measurement too?
Tim DH
-
Some more big 'snowdrops'. It's a bit difficult to tell from the photograph what the flowers are made of; can anybody see?
-
Helen in Devon Tweeted this photo of 'Paradise Giant' - looks a big one to me..... I've asked for measurements on your behalf, Tim.
[attachimg=1]
-
Hi Maggie,
Thanks for chasing the measurements on this.
Paradise Giant was recorded as 32mm last year.. Which is a good example of why I’m interested in measurements! It may be a giant when compared to a woodland full of nivalis.. But (if 32mm is a big as it gets) compared to other cultivars listed on this thread, it is actually quite small!
I’ve been reading this forum for 6 years now.. Which is how I first heard about Glenorma (or GC8 as it was back then).. A number of forumists, over the years have commented on Glenorma’s size.
Strangely, although the cultivar ‘Margaret Owen’ seems to have been in circulation about the same amount of time, I can’t find any comments referring to its size, and yet Steve’s measurement of last week would suggest that ’Margaret Owen’ might be significantly bigger.
Tim DH
PS Alan: I’m guessing those are milk bottles?
-
A great snowdrop every time: KILDARE
-
Is 'Kildare' fertile?
-
Tim there are several measuring 3.7cm -3.8cm but Excelsis is 4cm dead, unfortunately the borders are too wet to get a measurement on Paradise Giant today!
-
Thanks Brian,
I’ve added Excelsis to the list… any chance on a height for that cultivar?
Paradise Giant is already listed.. At 32mm!!!!
Thanks Hagen,
Apologies for my taking so long to add Kildare to the list ( recorded on Reply #38 )
Tim DH
-
Excelsis is 4cm dead
Not mine! I'm going out to look
-
Excelsis is 4cm dead
2cm
-
Galanthus plicatus 'Woodtown'
-
How about small? G. nivalis 'Mini Me'
-
Hi Mark,
I’ve added Woodtown to the list.. Thanks.
I’ll let Brian’s measurement of Excelisis stand.. I wonder what fertiliser he uses?
Andy Byfield’s article (refered too in reply#23 on the “Forum Top Ten” thread) mentions “Louise Ann Bromley” as having “the largest flowers of all”. Not sure if his measurement includes the ovary. Can anyone check?
I’m surprised Fieldgate Superb hasn’t shown up on this thread… Perhaps it isn’t as big as the catalogues suggest????
Tim DH
-
Hello I post a picture with Galanthus sandersii and big friends, cheers Ian the Christie kind
-
These are my 'Excelsis' with only 2cm outers compared to Brian's 4cm
-
I asked Andy Byfield about 'Louise Ann Bromley' - he says his are past now and he hadn't actually measured them , but he reckons the outers must be at least 5cms.
He also said that there are some even bigger 'drops coming along in various peoples' pipelines :o - some for the chunky ones to look forward to :)
And Tim..... Andy B. tells me also that the pleiones he got from you are budding up a treat!
-
I asked Andy Byfield about 'Louise Ann Bromley' - he says his are past now and he hadn't actually measured them , but he reckons the outers must be at least 5cms.
Whoops had forgotten about that one, I'll have to look tomorrow.
-
Obviously forgot yesterday! However, in the wind and the sun I went out today and took these four as a selection, all approx 4cm and rubbish photos - I needed to be left handed to do them justice. So here we have 'Excelsis' just about to go over, 'Chantry Green Twins', 'Louise Ann Bromley' and 'Gemini ex PC'. Although the flower on 'Chantry Green Twins' is single it looks as though it is making a nice sized daughter bulb so should look good next year, the flower in the group with twins is not quite so big (but nearly).
-
'Friar Tuck', a lovely short scaped, huge flowered plicatus, has 45mm+ outers. It would pass for a Might Atom Group member. I'll measure it properly in daylight tomorrow. Its getting dark here
I'll try and remember to measure 'Dodo Norton' tomorrow
-
Well…….
I guess that’s it for this year. I’ve just updated the final list (reply #38)
Thanks Maggi (reply #74) for the promise of great things to come…. Only I guess it’ll take anything new a decade to fall into my budget!!
Thanks Mark mentioning Friar Tuck. I’ve put it in as 45mm? Since you didn’t confirm it. One to watch next year!
Tim DH
-
I'm a little surprised you are "shutting up shop" already, Tim. With the international reach of the forum and with so many just having their 'drops begin as their gardens come out of the snow - or those poor souls who are still wondering if they will ever see the ground again because of the amount of snow they still have, I thought you might have been enthused at the prospect of reports of chunky 'drops from further afield?
-
Thanks Mark mentioning Friar Tuck. I’ve put it in as 45mm? Since you didn’t confirm it. One to watch next year!
oops I did measure it the next day and forgot to say and now I cant remember
-
Sorry, no pic due to bad weather: Peardrop / Pear Drops had outers of 40 mm this year.
-
It's name is just Peardrop Mariette, I know it is confusing but there is a Pearl Drops which is quite different.
-
Thank You. Brian, I´ve got it under the name Peardrop. There was a discussion whether the other version was correct. Pearl Drops is definitely another one.
-
It is good to know that Peardrop can grow so big. :) Here is mine yesterday, planted one bulb last summer and it started to flower some time ago, and it became immediately one of my favourites. I hope it will increase well in the future.
I measured its petals and they were 32mm, and longer than in any of my other snowdrops right now, but they will still grow I think. The plant was about 18cm tall.
-
Peardrop was a gift from a dear friend who knows about my preference for elegant formed snowdrops. I had no idea that the flowers would be so big. Due to the graceful proportions they impress by beauty, not by size.