Scottish Rock Garden Club Forum
Bulbs => Galanthus => Topic started by: Melvyn Jope on December 01, 2012, 08:44:17 PM
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Since starting out to grow and select Galanthus reginae-olgae I have produced hundreds of plants, have thousands of seedlings and as a consequence lots of plants producing seeds. Quite often now they are distributed from the plant before I get to them and seedlings appear in unexpected/unplanned places. One such was a seedling that came up in a two litre pot where I was growing Cyclamen hederifolium seedlings. The pot was growing in the open unprotected from the last two cold winters except such cover as the mature trees in the garden gave.The seedling had grown into a clump of flowering size bulbs and was noticed during a visit by fellow forumist Jim Fox. Last summer, at Jim's suggestion, I repotted them and they now have the shelter of a cold frame, two aspects of the plant that I think are worth noting, the first is its willingness to increase well through two very cold winters and the second the fact that it is very fragrant...I also think it has a nice petal shape. I have given it the provisional name Galanthus reginae-olgae ssp reginae-olgae Matoula and will continue to monitor its progress over the next few seasons. I attach three images of the plant.
To illustrate the problem with seedlings cropping up where not intended I have shown two flowers of a seedling coming up in a pot of Cyclamen creticum seedlings
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'Matoula' is very pretty - super flower shape, Melvyn.
The reluctance of G. r-o to settle here to a "normal" life makes us rather rueful when reading of your successes with the species! :-X
Your illustration of the "volunteer" seedling n the cyclamen pot shows just how happy they must be with you - something to be pleased about even if the little devils are making a bit too free with your facilities!
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These are certainly excellent plant. "Matoula" has a lovely full petal, very attractive.
I am envious of how well they grow for you. Though I have tried these many times in the open garden they have always faded away very quickly, some within one season. I now grow a few in pot in the protection of a cold glasshouse and am doing much better with them.
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Melvyn i have seed on my RO's for the first time this year so i am pretty chuffed.
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Glad to see you give 'Matoula's' debut, Melvyn. It's a superb plant with great substance, shape, richness of color, and as you say - fragrance. It's the first I've noticed with a soft hyacinth scent with a wee bit of clover honey, too. Very different from any other G. reg-olg. I've sniffed.
I've found galanthus fragrance ranges from none, to various kinds of honey - like clover or buckwheat, violets, bitter almonds, and now hyacinth.
I encourage folks to pick a blossom of various cultivars to bring inside, or bring in the pot as I do. It's remarkable the different scents - and the variation in intensities of the scent with temperature and light. In some cases it's a very good way to distinguish similar cultivars. I note the fragrance on nearly all mine as part of the "identity" of the clone.
Much to my surprise, I, too, have started finding seedlings coming up in cyclamen and narcissus pots. I could swear I deadhead every pot or collect all the seedpods, but clearly there are some engaging in covert actions!
Jim
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Melvyn
your Matoula is certainly elegant,a lovely shaped flower.
I grow my r-o's in pots and I am not diligent with the dead heading. Self sown seedlings of these and peshmenii are a weed in my sand plunges.
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A very elegant plant Melvyn particularly as it is scented. I am sure that some clones perform better in outdoor conditions. I have a couple which seem reasonably happy outside and have a few pots of seedlings which I have tried to get from as wide a gene pool as possible. I suppose the best way to get tougher clones is to sow the seeds in tough conditions so that only the fittest will develop and yours seem to be testament to that
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Very beautiful your Matoula, Melvyn - a pitty scent cannot be posted.
Self sown seedlings of these and peshmenii are a weed in my sand plunges.
Tony I envy you for this kind of weeds - hardly self sown seedlings of Galanthus here, exept G. elwesii monostictus - but Cyclamen appearing everywhere (also in seedlingpots of Galanthus).
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Nice Melvyn. A good strong scent on snowdrops is always nice when some are picked and brought indoors. Makes me think of standing near the Avon Bulbs display at the RHS halls in February and enjoying the wonderful perfumes.
I've got my first snow of the season here today. A pic of a snowdrop in the snow (Melvyn's R O again).
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Poor thing!
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Emma should make him a nice hat.
Lina.
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I believe, Johns garden is always white.
When I was there, we saw also only snow.
Nothing but snow. ;D
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Glad to see you give 'Matoula's' debut, Melvyn. It's the first I've noticed with a soft hyacinth scent with a wee bit of clover honey, too.
Now that the petals opened to the horizontal position all day the fragrance has changed to full honey. An adaptation to attract different pollinators depending on temperature?
Galanthus cilicicus just opened. From an old Ole Sønderhousen collection which I got from Alpine.dk, its fragrance is a bit like new rubber tires, somewhat like 'Ginn's Imperati' bitter almonds scent. Will it change full on to that as it matures? I wonder.
Another surprise is the small green dot on each outer, something Kirsten and Lars have not noticed on their other G. cilicicus. I hope it sets seed!
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The pics show my garden after 2 hours of snowing. It starts at 7:30 in the morning and is
still going on.
John, we think the snow now in England is ok, better than in Feb next year around the gala.
Uli
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I have been catching up with the forum by reading all the galanthus posts I have missed. October was kind of depressing with all the talk of infected, dead, and disappeared plants. I don't want to seem too much of a neophyte with this crowd, but since most of the problems seem to occur in pots, why don't people grow the snowdrops in the ground? My experience here in the mid-Atlantic US is almost 100% success in the ground but that is not really relevant because our climate is so different.
Kent Gardener wanted more photos of fall-bloomers. My G. reginae-olgae bloomed in October and I missed photographing it. It comes back every year but is not particularly vigorous. I acquired 'Cambridge' this fall. My best named fall-bloomer is G. elwesii var. monostictus 'Potter's Prelude', which started at the beginning of November and is still going strong. The photos below show two clumps started from one or two bulbs in 2008 and 2009. Very vigorous and available in the UK---I think this is the only snowdrop named in the US and would like to know if anyone knows any others. I hope to post soon some photos of unnamed fall-bloomers that I am investigating.
Carolyn
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Carolyn - re: American snowdrops
Hitch has named some snowdrops as has Steve out west (sorry at the moment I forget his last name - not Doonan). There is one named after NARGS' Pat Bender. Probably more if I went digging through correspondence. Some of these could very well be in Canada. And surely Jim must be ready to name a few beauties!
Personally I grow many snowdrops in pots as they are less likely to get mixed up with seedlings and rampant varieties in the garden. And you know where to find them when they're dormant. As we trade only dormant bulbs or bulbs growing in pots it works for us. The thought of digging in the green is anathema for me but I've done it as a very last resort.
Nice strong mark on your Potter's there.
The last of the frames get packed this weekend.
johnw +7c and drizzle.
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Very vigorous and available in the UK
I havent seen it on any UK lists
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Mark - I think some forumists have mentioned having it. Haven't seen it in any of the catalogues that ship to the Comonwealth.
johnw
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Make that Steve Vinsky.
johnw
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John, that's Steve Viniski in Oregon. I have Theresa Stone above ground now, it is
and American named one. Here it is last February, a little dirty after rain and
cold damage on some leaves.
John B
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There have been snowdrops named in the US in the past with several still under evaluation. G. 'Pat Bender' is one Claire Cockcroft named and I introduced. I posted it last year on the forum. I'm told photos shown at talks in the UK generated a buzz. A wonderful memorial for Pat.
G. 'Canadian Winter' is another, named by Barbara Flynn of Washington in 1999 or so, at the suggestion of John Grimshaw who saw it in her garden. An elwesii that blooms in the New Year, is quite nice and substantial, and prolific.
G. elwesii 'Oluna's Mother' (aka 'Oluna's Early form', the former is correct) came out of another Oregon garden several years ago and passed around here for most of this century. A very nice flower.
'Theresa Stone' as John B just said, a very well known one out of Oregon which is noted in "Snowdrops".
As John W said, Hitch Lyman named some, Don Hackenberry (I can't find my old lists! for the names), Steve Vinisky but he stopped selling and breeding because there was little interest in the U.S. while he was breeding them! Hard to believe, but true.
We're such a huge country, and the few galanthophiles of 10-15 years ago were besotted with UK varieties. Few knew of, or paid attention to US varieties, or wanted to pay prices for them - high then, perfect now. Times have changed, but most US breeders gave up.
Don Hackenberry was probably amongst the earliest to list and sell named selections. Frank Galyon was breeding and selecting them in Tennessee earlier, but it's not clear if he named any or just passed around promising clones which others named. I have one which has been referred to as 'Fred Galyon' tetraploid or G. plicatus tetraploid Fred Galyon('s). I'd be interested in hearing from anyone who corresponded with him about his galanthus, or with other US breeders/selectors.
I have many other named forms under evaluation, 'Chubby' being one, which are receiving good reviews - as well as other colors and forms, which I won't mention out loud for fear of killing them by speaking of them!
If we move just 200 miles north onto the "foreign" soil of Canada, but still in North America, we find several named varieties in B.C.: 'Rosemary Burnham' (saved and reintroduced from Washington state, I believe), 'Don Armstrong', and the near mythical 'Snocus', to name just a few.
There are collectors on the East Coast of the US with massive collections who, I suspect, have named or selected forms, but are waiting until stocks are built up. I believe as Galanthomania grows in the US more named and unheralded varieties will be found.
So the quite lovely and welcome 'Potter's Prelude' is following a well trod trail.
Why anyone would grow galanthus in pots? Well, I have no choice. I live in an apartment with a tiny concrete patio in shade and a long narrow bench in the sun. There's no place to plant the over 170 pots of galanthus, nor the 600 plus pots of other obsessions. When freezes come - or plants go dormant - they all go into the garage until it's safe. Good exercise.
A US expert once told me it was impossible to grow them in pots. Not true, which I knew from the large collections I'd seen first in the UK in the 1980s - and still see there.
Growing in pots works very well. I can quarantine new ones, nurse "in the green" gifts which always suffer for a year or two, and use a very well draining soil mix of lots of pumice and a little compost because of our heavy winter rains, repotting annually or biennially. They get varying liquid feeds during growth.
Someday I hope to have land to let them be "free range". But I would still grow many in pots to enjoy inside or to take to rock garden meetings for others to enjoy or to have as ready gifts.
Jim
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Wow Jim, most of named Galanthus are familiar to me but to see them all gather in one posting is a bit mind-blowing. No need to add Canada you folks are doing quite well as it is.
One correction though " 'Rosemary Burnham' "saved and reintroduced from Washington state, ". In fact Rosemary's original clump at her home was stolen, mercifully the supergenerous and consummate plantsman Don Armstrong of Vancouver, BC came to the rescue with replacements. Here is an article written by lurker Pam Frost on its history. Don did the research mentioned back in the days before the internet, back when information was very hard to come by and he phoned when he got a response back from the RHS. One thing not mentioned there is that the snowdrop was almost named Francesca Darts as it was mistakenly thought that Francisca had discovered this snowdrop. At this point Don had passed away but many of us knew the correct story and this snowdrop was known as Rosemary Burnham's green elwesii. There was a lot of frantic behind- the-scenes footwork but all was resolved when I emailed John Grimshaw who nipped that in the bud. I called Rosemary and got her permission to have John Grimshaw formally register it which he kindly did. It was a damn close call though; in typical fashion Rosemary was quite content to let the snowdrop be named after her friend Francisca but with the correct spelling! It took a bit of arm-twisting to het her to to relent.
Your 'Chubby' looks good. I'd love to see it free-range in a big clump.
Yes Jim "free-range" snowdrops is a splendid idea, once, that is, they are safely bulked up.
johnw - +8c and drizzle
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Mark: I realized afterwards that my comment was ambiguous. I meant that collectors in the UK have 'Potter's Prelude' not that it was being sold there.
John: I understand that gardeners without space, growers, and people who want to trade might wish to grow snowdrops in pots. My question was more in reference to the comments on the October thread where the gardeners with space seemed to grow them in pots even when encountering very significant losses. I was curious if there was something about growing snowdrops "over there" that still made it preferable despite the obvious risks.
Every spring for over 15 years, I plant in the ground a sample (usually two or more plants) of each new snowdrop sold at my nursery "in the green" to make sure it thrives. The following spring 100% of these snowdrops have come up and bloomed and often multiplied. In the green works very well in our mid-Atlantic climate which is totally different from yours in Nova Scotia, the UK, and the Pacific Northwest. For reference, in July 2012 my area had 21 days in the 90s F (32.2 plus C) and 10 over 95 degrees F. During the same period it reached 80 degrees F only twice in Seattle. The same snowdrop growing techniques are not suitable to both places.
Jim: I love the image of free range snowdrops. Thank you so much for the info on North American named cultivars. If you think of any more, please let me know.
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I grow a lot of snowdrops in pots after a twin outbreak of disease (Stagonospora curtisii) and insect predation (swift moth larvae). The advantages of pot culture is that the disease or predator is much better confined by the walls of the pot than if the snowdrops were grown "free-range". In the event of disease (fortunately rare recently) I can discard the entire contents (or just the soil whilst trying to rescue the bulbs). It's also easy to empty out the contents of a pot and discard the swift moth larvae, although this may come too late for the bulbs.
The disadvantage is that there is much more work involved. The climate here is relatively mild and I use large pots but I have lost a few bulbs in recent severe winters which may be down to the pots becoming too frozen - I leave my pots exposed rather than sinking them is sand as those in colder climates must.
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One correction though " 'Rosemary Burnham' "saved and reintroduced from Washington state, ".
Thanks for setting the record and me straight, John. It was the mention of J. John Flintoff's correspondence with John Grimshaw about 'R. B." cited in "Snowdrops" that made me think John F. had something to do with reintroducing it to the UK, but it must have been about it's origins. (Three different Johns in one small paragraph!)
It's a truly glorious flower and makes a great clump in the garden. I like Rosemary's humble comment that it was different. It's very different.
Let's hope this conversation brings to light other US and Canadian named cultivars.
Jim
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Let's hope this conversation brings to light other US and Canadian named cultivars.
Jim
I am compiling all the responses on this subject into a document on my computer so anyone else who can add to the list of North American cultivars please join in.
Alan, Thanks for clarifying. I am thinking from what you said that disease and insect prevalence is just as likely in the ground as in pots so for the reasons you stated pots make it easier to stop the spread. However, if that is not a concern, it seems that snowdrops grow better in the ground or is that not true?
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Thanks for setting the record and me straight, John. It was the mention of J. John Flintoff's correspondence with John Grimshaw about 'R. B." cited in "Snowdrops" that made me think John F. had something to do with reintroducing it to the UK, but it must have been about it's origins. (Three different Johns in one small paragraph!)
Jim - After the book came out I sent JohnG copies of our original correspondence and he mentioned correcting that for the next edition. It could very well be that John (Jerry) Flintoff did exactly what I had done as well. I'm pretty sure the book's reference to <one perilously close to the edge of the table at the RHS Show in 199....> refers to one of the replacements I had sent over the previous autumn. About 5 years later it was my turn, I had 50 tunics and one surviving bulbt, she's back on her feet now.
BTW I had corresponded in those days with JF when he was Jerry F. ut now understand he's JohnF! As opposed to our the JohnF - kentgardener. So you're not the only one confused.
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However, if that is not a concern, it seems that snowdrops grow better in the ground or is that not true?
Hi Carolyn
Due to lack of plating space about 2/3 of my snowdrops are in lattice pots above ground. I can see no difference between which grow 'better' - those in the ground or those above the ground. For me they all seem as happy as each other. I repot every 2 or 3 years.
JohnF ;)
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... if that is not a concern, it seems that snowdrops grow better in the ground or is that not true?
That's a very difficult question to answer. I think if you are not concerned by disease then you have been lulled into a false sense of security. Even the likes of Matt Bishop have succumbed. And I have lost a lot of common snowdrops planted-out in my small garden, typically disappearing whilst dormant so they were here one year and gone the next. For example, I used to have a mixed clump of snowdrops and snowflakes (leucanthemum aestivum) from which all the snowdrops vanished one year. I suspect that is insect predation because I have found the same larvae in the ground near snowdrops and in pots from which the snowdrop bulbs have vanished.
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Jim and Carolyn (and of course JohnW), it is really interesting to hear of, and see, those snowdrops that you are growing over the pond. Thanks for sharing them with us. We must be grateful that you kept G.'Poseidon' going when it was reportedly 'lost' in England. I often wonder if any other lost snowdrops are still circulating quietly over there.
On another note I do believe 'Potter's Prelude' may once have appeared on eBay?
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Brian - Hadn't we started a list of snowdrops that had gone missing over there?
Maybe we should have an ongoing thread to which we could post new MIA ones. Every year or so we could send that to Galanthophiles over here to see if any are in collections here. Then of course we'd have to go through the laborious paperwork to get them back across the pond.
johnw - +10c and cloudy,
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Alan - Of course you're absolutely right. NBF has made it's appearance here relatively recently from what I can tell, presumably from imported bulbs. And stag, well who knows how long it's been around, imported Hippeastrums are lousy with it and it's easily spread from them.
I hadn't heard that Matt's collection was affected, ouch. I recall Ruby Baker's collection was wiped out as well, was that virus or stag? And Helen Dillon's was downed by swift moth. The list goes on. So if you have collection that is in the ground back-ups in pots is a very wise move. And vice-versa.
johnw - +10c & sunny
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Galanthus reginae-olgae 'Alex Duguid' today. G. plicatus 'Three Ships' is getting very close.
johnw - +6c
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Today while having a bit of a clean up in the garden I was happy to see my Three Ships is back. It returned last year after several years below ground. I was even happier to see it has two noses.
Loads of snowdrops now have noses poking up.
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Same here Mark,I am pleased to say
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I shall wait patiently then :)
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The 10 December roll-call had 28% of my varieties showing compared with 48% last year, confirming the November picture that they are significantly later this year.
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A new book on snowdrops, "A Gardener's Guide to Snowdrops" by Freda Cox is due to be published in April 2013 by The Crowood Press.
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Thank you Paddy, for this information.
I like the books in this serie. 10 of them are translated into dutch by Hanneke van Dijk.
And now about snowdrops! Great!
Lina.
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I have a nice seedling from plicatus 'Three Ships' x reginae olgae flowering now. Must try to get a photo to post. The cross definitely took as the seed was from the plicatus but the seedling's leaves are much more reginae olgae.
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Maggi: I am having a lot of problems posting. I would say one of three goes through. Any ideas? I will try again.
There was a typo in my post about 'Potter's Prelude'. It should be monostictus.
I am looking for information on G. elwesii 'Zwanenberg', photo below. I couldn't find it in the bible and not much on line. Does any one know its characteristics, origin, history, etc? I believe Zwanenberg was the main nursery of the Dutch family Van Tubergen.
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Maggi: I am having a lot of problems posting. I would say one of three goes through. Any ideas? I will try again.
There was a typo in my post about 'Potter's Prelude'. It should be monostictus.
Carolyn, I have myself had some problems posting recently- I found that my internet connection was appallingly slow. Trouble is, it can appear good enough a speed but i can fall suddenly and that is where he problem arises. I suppose that the fact that the world and his wife are online at this time of year doesn't help!
Not something I can do anything about, I'm afraid.
I have corrected your typo of monostictus -
perhaps worth saying: Forumists may re-enter your own posts at any time to make such a change- click on the "modify" button over the post and you can edit it there.
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Thanks, Maggi, will just persevere. Thanks for explaining the modification process.
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I am looking for information on G. elwesii 'Zwanenberg', photo below. I couldn't find it in the bible and not much on line.
MarkS or DmitriZ to the rescue....
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Carolyn,
there are different types of ZWANENBURG in the collections. Here is another. The important thing is the color of the ovarium. It is a yellow green, we say olive!!! It came from North Green in 1996
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This caught my eye in the garden today. It is the tips of G. 'Atkinsii' pushing through a fallen leaf. What puzzles me is why the leaf wasn't simply pushed out of the way rather than the snowdrop making its way through it. Is there a drilling mechanism on the growing tip?
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Oh Paddy, you can identify the variety on this small nose. Phenomenal ;D
Yes, spring is coming!Sooner or later. >:(
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Hagen, this is G. 'Atkinsii'. Paddy
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Here's 'Zwanenberg' as received from Monksilver Nursery c. 1998 in Seattle, Washington, and passed around. At the moment, I can't find the list it was ordered from.
The 1997 North Green catalog says this "G. Elwesii 'Zwanenburg': best described as a vigorous, upright rather green-leaved form of G. elwesii. Very distinct." 4 pound 50. This fits our plant as far as it goes. Definitely different in markings from Hagen's and Carolyn's.
I think it is mentioned in "Snowdrops" but only in passing and not in the index.
(Ignore the spelling typo in the caption.]
Jim
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It is in page 190 in 'Snowdrops'
I bought it in 2009 from Valentin Wijnen.
Lina.
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Thanks Lina for the location of 'Zwanenburg' in "Snowdrops". It's in the species/cultivars index, but not the cultivars index. I get lazy sometimes and only look in the cultivar index.
From the description in the book Hagen's flower matches exactly, neither Carolyn's or mine do. Now I wonder what I have?
Jim
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This is mine. The first are ready to open but we havent had any warm days recently
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I'll probably get shot down in flames for this but I have never been able to spot anything that distinguishes "Zwanenburg" from something you might easily find amongst any group of naturalised elwesii. Okay, it's got some olive-green bits but olive green really isn't too hard to find. Producing two scapes per bulb (according to "Snowdops") would seem to be its best feature.
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This caught my eye in the garden today. It is the tips of G. 'Atkinsii' pushing through a fallen leaf. What puzzles me is why the leaf wasn't simply pushed out of the way rather than the snowdrop making its way through it. Is there a drilling mechanism on the growing tip?
Paddy - I've wondered about this too. Is it possibly the leaf was wet and wall-papered to the ground as the snowdrop emerged and then the leaf dried as it rose up? I guess I'll have to pay attention more and figure out which Genera are being pierced, oaks and Magnolia grandiflora would shoot my theory down.
johnw - -2c and dropping
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Today I spotted a nice seedling of Galanthus elwesii var. monostictus in the garden - Inners are completly green with no notch, Outers slightly green tipped - it could be a cross of the following two.
A small, more typical looking, clump of this variety and two named cultivars - 'Sheds and Outhouses' and 'Smaragdsplitter' - given to me by a very generous friend, still in flower but picture taken at the beginning of the month.
Very curious I am how the flower of those seedlings will look like - all of them should be var. monostictus . Typical elwesii start growing and flowering very late - possibly because of the elevated temperatures in spring I never had seed on them.
Last shows a nice form of Galanthus cilicicus.
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A lovely selection, Hans. 'Sheds and Outhouses' is one I haven't taken note of previously - very nice.
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This caught my eye in the garden today. It is the tips of G. 'Atkinsii' pushing through a fallen leaf. What puzzles me is why the leaf wasn't simply pushed out of the way rather than the snowdrop making its way through it. Is there a drilling mechanism on the growing tip?
I see this frequently when the spring bulbs come up in my yard and am constantly running around pulling pierced leaves off growing shoots... I think John's explanation is probably right that winter-compacted leaves provide some resistance against the growing tip. Strange how the tips manage to push right through (but mushrooms can push up through asphalt...)
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Indeed, Lori, nature has its wonderful and interesting ways.
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This is mine. The first are ready to open but we havent had any warm days recently
Lina: Thank you so much. I never realized their were cultivars described in Snowdrops that weren't in the cultivar index.
Alan: I am not going to shoot you down and am glad you shared your thoughts. I will look into the two scape characteristic further. My photo is from a visit to a collector's garden, and 'Zwanenburg' definitely stood out. Snowdrops describes it quite favorably (and I find they let you know when they aren't terribly thrilled with a cultivar). Perhaps if I had access to hundreds of available cultivars I would pass it by; however, it's primary attraction to me is that it's in the US.
Mark: Do you think your plant is in fact 'Zwanenburg' given the description from the book and Hagen's photo? To me it looks like mine and Jim's and every other photo of the plant that I found on the internet.
Carolyn
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I'll probably get shot down in flames for this but I have never been able to spot anything that distinguishes "Zwanenburg" from something you might easily find amongst any group of naturalised elwesii.
Not by me, Alan. 'Zwanenburg' is one of those I wonder why it was named. I'd say the same about 40% of other named cultivars of snowdrops.
Galanthus are becoming like hostas, daylilies, and roses - too many, too alike. There are only so many potential variations. Where's the sanity? I would invoke the "two foot" rule (60-70cm). If you can't identify it on a sunny, warm day from that distance (ground or eye level), then it's not distinct. (Now my turn to be shot down in flames.)
Whether it's unique to the US or China or New Zealand, if it's a good grower, distinct or not, it's eventually going to show up in other countries. Importing is tough at times but not impossible, so it is important that we all compare our new finds and seedlings to what's some where else before naming.
During these dark winter evenings, I'm playing around with the math of the 22 species and subspecies of galanthus to figure out the maximum potential number of distinctive cultivars. I'm multiplying them by variables such as color, inner and outer markings, season, height, scapes, doubles, potential to reseed wildly, number of flowers per scape, and other distinctive attributes. The number's going to be close to number of cultivars already named.
One thing is clear - generally speaking, we as hobbyists have focused on just 3 species so long we've nitpicked ourselves into confusion, naming too many cultivars that are best left feral, to grow unfettered by name or pedigree. A lovely grand swath with a wee bit of variability to give interest to the whole. By the swath would be a large sign: "Keep off the Nomenclature!"
Jim
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This caught my eye in the garden today. It is the tips of G. 'Atkinsii' pushing through a fallen leaf. What puzzles me is why the leaf wasn't simply pushed out of the way rather than the snowdrop making its way through it. Is there a drilling mechanism on the growing tip?
Just looked at the many noses of galanthus poking up in pots. They all have a white, pointed, very hard tip perched on the slightest curved end of the outer leave. It's white and looks like the egg tooth chicks, ducklings, and other fowl have on their beak tips to chip their way out of the hard egg shell.
Perhaps this hard point on the galanthus does the same thing, using the strength of the arch of the curve and this hardness it to exploit any weak spots in the tree leaf if that latter is held down in some way and can't be pushed aside.
Many of the flat leaved narcissus species and hybrids have a similar hard white tip on the first leaf to emerge and they too pierce through leaves instead of pushing them aside.
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Carolyn, I am happy to help. My knowledge of snowdrops is nothing compared with everyone else's on this forum. That's why I know my way in my books. 😃😃
Lina.
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A time of change with Galanthus for me with G.peshmenii finished and G.elwesii taking their place.
G.Peter Gatehouse is looking good at the moment both on the garden and under glass and also two G.elwesii seedlings, both of these flowered in November last year so a little later this time.
I have a lot of Galanthus reginae-olgae in flower now, the G.r-o seedling from Corfu is from seed which I collected in April 2008 and one of many seedlings flowering for the first time.
Finally G.r-o Heracles, a John Fielding selection.
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A time of change with Galanthus for me with G.peshmenii finished and G.elwesii taking their place.
G.Peter Gatehouse is looking good at the moment both on the garden and under glass and also two G.elwesii seedlings, both of these flowered in November last year so a little later this time.
I have a lot of Galanthus reginae-olgae in flower now, the G.r-o seedling from Corfu is from seed which I collected in April 2008 and one of many seedlings flowering for the first time.
Finally G.r-o Heracles, a John Fielding selection.
Very beautiful Melvyn :o They al look very good but the reginae-olgae seedling from Corfu is my favourite .
Thanks for sharing them.
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I agree with Kris, Melvyn: the Corfu G. reg.-olg. is very nice especially flowering this late.
The G. elwesii. 1a is sweet with the delicate marking - and early, too.
Thanks for sharing all of them.
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Oh Melvyn,
you will have really a "White" Christmas.
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Wonderful plants, Melvyn.
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A seedling flowering now, plicatus 'Three Ships' x reginae-olgae.
The leaves are similar to reginae-olgae but with some narrow plication from the 'Three Ships' seed parent. Looks like a strong grower and increaser, already producing three side-bulbs at first flowering.
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Wow - for the flowering time of season and the potential increase rate - that sounds like it might be my kind of bulb. 8)
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Martin - Very nice. How did you protect the stigma after pollination?
I am tempted to repeat that cross here using 'Cambridge'. Last year 'Cambridge' flower here about mid December and were still good in mid-January despite being snowless.
This year it was a month or more earlier and last Friday night we dropped to -9c and it barely got to -3 by day. The 'Red Sensation' cordylines genuflected and the 'Cambridge' flowers flopped but the 'Cambridges' stood right up again Monday morning. So I'd bet your hybrids will brave much of the worst of UK winter weather.
johnw - heavy rain approaching.
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John, I don't try to protect the stigma after pollination. I do so many crosses (because I get so few seeds from each pollination, if any) that it'd be impossible to protect all the flowers afterwards. There just wouldn't be time. I just depend on the fact that there are generally few pollinators around at that time of year, plus catching flowers as soon as they open and pollinating them before open pollination can happen (self-pollination or open crosses). It's not a fail-safe system but the best I can do with the time I have.
This cross definitely took as the seed was from the plicatus parent but has leaves very like reginae-olgae except that the leaf edges are distinctly partially plicate.
Unfortunately 'Three Ships' does not set seed freely, whatever I've pollinated it with in the past. So I only got a very few seeds from this cross, despite pollinating a number of flowers, and this is the only one to flower so far out of (I think) three or four surviving seedlings.
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Unfortunately 'Three Ships' does not set seed freely, whatever I've pollinated it with in the past. So I only got a very few seeds from this cross, despite pollinating a number of flowers, and this is the only one to flower so far out of (I think) three or four surviving seedlings.
At least it looks as though it will make up quickly itself Martin. A good sign :)
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I am tempted to repeat that cross here using 'Cambridge'.
John, maybe better to use 'Three Ships' as the pollen parent and reginae-olgae as the seed parent. As I said, I get very little seed by pollinating 'Three Ships', but I get good seed set using its pollen on other snowdrops, and the various reginae-olgae forms set seed quite readily here when crossed.
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Martin - Maybe I have some very late reg-olgs in the greenhouse, otherwise I may be forced to use Three Ships as the seed parent.
I hope with your cross you have added hardiness and retained the ability to riise from the flop.
Have you worked on peshmenii crosses yet?
johnw
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No, I don't grow peshmenii. Never bothered to get hold of it as I was told that it could be less hardy than reginae olgae, and there didn' seem much point in breeding from a less hardy version of r-g.
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a couple of mine in flower
Galanthus fosteri
Galanthus cilicicus from a Peter Bird collection
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I recall Ruby Baker's collection was wiped out as well, was that virus or stag?
I met Ruby Baker for lunch today and am pleased to report that even at 89 she is in good health and I am assured by her that her galanthus collection is in good health too.
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Melvyn - Good to hear that Ruby Baker's collection is in good health. There's a good account of the Stag problem in their collection on pages 325-326 in the book.
A colleague has just returned from France where he was visiting family. He told me of popping into some high-end florist shops on the Champs-Elysée. He was particularly excited about some beautiful boat-shaped planters. The planters featured Hippeastrums underplanted with snowdrops and topped with moss. I thought how clever and then reconsidered, the Hipps are most likely stag-infected and those snowdrops are apt to be planted in the garden later.... One can only hope the snowdrops are in separate pots but still too close for comfort.
johnw
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In the garden today, a wet garden I might add.
G. 'Castlegar'
G. 'Three Ships'
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Snowdrops in my Mediterranean tunnel at present:
G. cilicicus from Chris Sancham
G. ikariae ssp. snogerupii ex Andros from Melvyn Jope
G. elwesii var. monostictus
G. reginae-olgae ssp. reginae-olgae ex Vyros gorge from Melvyn Jope
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Thanks Tony, Paddy and Dimitri :) - you have helped to put a smile on my face as the S.A.D. starts to grab hold. :-\
Today might be my last chance to be in the garden here during daylight hours until Mid January - so here are a few quick snaps from today - and I mean quick! (I almost didn't post them due to 'white out' and blur). But here are a few of the the little white flowers at maison kentgardener.
1 - 'Donald Sims Early' - for my garden it does perform before Christmas each year, luckily it seems from other accounts I hear. (sorry for flowers not being open - this is possibly my last daylight viewing of it with a camera in hand for this snowdrop season).
2 - 'Barnes' (a really bad, speedily taken pic with lots of 'white out' - but a reliable start to snowdrop season during the onset of Winter)
3 - 'Fieldgate Superb' - every year I see this and mistakenly think I am seeing a daffodil coming up already - it really does have a chunky nose! :D
4 - 'Richard Ayres' - is already getting me excited for the potential blanket of white that might be enjoyed by any visitors to this Kentish garden when I get back from Malta.
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Hi John,
Is that a pound coin in the picture? If so, then for the benefit of non British readers, they are 22mm across.
Personally, I find it very hard to ‘judge’ flower photos without some sort of scale. I know size isn’t everything, but….. Mrs Macnamara is the biggest thing I grow. Is there anything reliably bigger?
Tim DH
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Hi John,
Nice selection. It's always interesting to see how bulbs perform differently in different gardens - early ones which are not so early elsewhere etc.
Enjoy the break in Malta.
Paddy
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Mrs Macnamara is the biggest thing I grow. Is there anything reliably bigger?
Natalie Garton is tall with large chunky flowers
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Tim - elwesii 'Alanya Yayla' towers over all the others here. It seems to be a reluctant offsetter.
johnw - +3c and overcast, another drenching on the way.
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Hi Tim
It is only a 5p. :)
Thanks Paddy - I have time on the South coast of UK first and then Malta first thing in the new year.
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What's this, John? The south coast of the UK = the new costa?
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Hello John, the reason I initially became interested in snowdrops was to help me cope with the dreaded ..........S A D.
Seeing those lovely FAT galanthus buds really lifts my spirit.
I have been 'finger fishing' in my garden & I'm please to say I can feel my 'Big Boys'....I was really concerned the unrelenting rain last summer was going to cause their demise.
According to my 'fishing finger' lots of other snowdrops should be surfacing quite soon.
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Thanks for the correction John,
Only a 5p! I didn’t think such small denominations were still in use South of Sheffield!!
For the benefit of non British readers, they are about 18mm across
Tim DH
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I must confesses to being another S.A.D Galanthophile , there's a joke there i think ;)
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Have a great time John and remember me to Valletta, one of my favourite cities.
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Hello JohnW, do you have a pic of G.e. ALANYA YAYLA? There are different types in the gardens. The best has whole green inners!!!
I got one bulb, but it was infected. Now I have 3 or 4 twinscaled small bulbs and a lot of patience.
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Both of my Three Ships flowers have been eaten :'( Alternative food has now been spread around the garden.
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John, Mike and Emma,
Why is Maggi so slow to jump in with "All snowdrop collectors are sad"?
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Why is Maggi so slow to jump in with "All snowdrop collectors are sad"?
Goes without saying, surely? ;)
Or perhaps because maggi and ian have recently bought a SAD lamp and find it most useful! :-[
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So, Maggi, are you sporting a wonderfully healthy skin colour these days?
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It doesn't colour the skin, Paddy, hasn't got the tanning element to the light - we're still as delightfully pale as the average snowdrop Though if any green bits start appearing, we'll get worried. :-\
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Duplicate post, see below, server said it was still loading post. Picture removed but still showing on the forum but no attachment visible under "Attachments and other options". Bizarre.
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Hagen - This is the one I got in Germany quite some time ago. Mysteriously it disappeared from my collection for a number of years along with Robin Hood and a few others, at the same time a 'Lola' label appeared = LOst LAbel. No deaths had been recorded & none of the Lolas flowered until about 2009. German friends were a tad hesitant to positively id it having lost theirs and nobody seemed to have a picture. Then Günter's book came out and the match was made.
johnw - +7c at 22:14 and torrential rain expected.
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Yes JohnW , the plant is OK.
Here is a pic of my flower.
At first there were different plants found near Alanya at a place called Alanya Yayla and the plant labels said "from Alanya Yayla". May be it was 20 years ago. Then you could buy these huge plants for good money, so they needed a name. Now the description name of source is the cultivar name. I bought it under the new name. Please note: from the same place came different plants with different marks, but all very huge. Now you can find a part of the new town of Alanya on the place and meanwhile galanthus are very very rare there .
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Mark, you should change the order/sequence next year ;D!
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Please note: from the same place came different plants with different marks, but all very huge.
...and are they still in circulation Hagen? Lovely Goblet mark on 'Alanya Yayla'.
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G. 'Paradise Giant' is the best display in the garden at present because, I suppose, it is a big clump and the flowers are opening in the last few mild days.
Lovely marks on your 'Alanya Yayla', John. Lovely flower.
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G. 'Paradise Giant' is the best display in the garden at present because, I suppose, it is a big clump and the flowers are opening in the last few mild days.
Lovely marks on your 'Alanya Yayla', John. Lovely flower.
Very nice Paddy
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What's this, John? The south coast of the UK = the new costa?
Christmas at the parents place at the seaside - lots of Mum's home cooking. ;D
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Hagen - So we really should not be using a cultivar name for what is indeed a swarm and not even a grex.
To be completely honest I received it as Alanja Yayla and without the ' '.
There has been some controversy over the markings as the grower back then said that the markings were separated rather than fused. And later he reported that the apical markings changed a bit one year. The outers remained 2.5cm long and the height 32-34cm when fully established.
What I do find is that the bulbs have refused to offset of late and are looking rather aged. Hopefully I can get it off-setting again.
johnw - one wild &windy night w. torrential rain. +8c
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Paddy, what a lovely plant Paradise Giant is, beautiful markings. Thanks for posting the photos.
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Many thanks, Melvyn.
Here is one from today.
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JohnW I agree with you.
Alanya Yayla is only the place of discovery. So it cannot be a cultivar name.
Here in Germany there is another group of big Galanthus elwesii called MAGDEBURGER RIESEN. It is feared, these bulbs have the same background like your Alanya Yayla.
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Hagen - Giant! Hell, had I known that I would have jumped off the DB as we passed through Magdeburg. I wanted to see that cathedral too but the allure of Thüringian sausages won out. ;)
johnw
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Of course if it was America MAGDEBURGER RIESEN would be a basketball team ;D ;D
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But the flowers are big like a basketball :o
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Hi John,
Thanks for measuring the outers of your Alanya Yayla (2.5cm). Do either of the two giants referred to dwarf this?
Tim DH
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Hi all!!
The biggest flowered drops I've ever seen or cultivated I've collected in some mountain range of Crimea!!! This is G. plicatus - 2 clones which differ a bit in flower form but both measure of 4.6 cm with ovary!!
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very nice. Are they flowering now?
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Dimitri!
They are monstrous!!
By looking at the ratios in the photo I reckon the outer length is about 34mm. (So that it can be compared with John’s post for Alanya Yayla (25mm).
Its not something you read very often on this website but (in my opinion) please can you name the better form! (I prefer the fuller shape of 2)
Also, please can I be first on the buyers list!!
Tim DH
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very nice. Are they flowering now?
No, Mark, they all bloom in March, it is of G. plicatus ssp. plicatus plants......
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Dimitri!
They are monstrous!!
By looking at the ratios in the photo I reckon the outer length is about 34mm. (So that it can be compared with John’s post for Alanya Yayla (25mm).
Its not something you read very often on this website but (in my opinion) please can you name the better form! (I prefer the fuller shape of 2)
Also, please can I be first on the buyers list!!
Tim DH
Tim, I like both forms, even I can't choose what is the best. The first one has very narrow gracile whole flower, petals and ovary, but the second seems have more a bit huge flower and with more interesting inner segment mark.... Of note, both possess huge bulbs as big as of garden daffodil ones!!!!!!!!!! Last summer I've got a significant bulbs' reduction at both clones cause of the mole walked through(((((
On occasion, I asked Aaron what the biggest drops' cultivars are grown by him, he replied G. elwesii YVONNE HAY and G. elwesii JUNIPER'S GIANT. Never heard about second cultivar, does anybody grow it?? really huge???
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Very nice Dimitri, Paddy, JohnW and Hagen. Nice plants and nice photos. Giant could mean "very large flowered" or "very tall", in my view it would ideally mean both :)
So a question for you all, approximately how tall are these drops, I like tall drops with large flowers.
Chris
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I'm happy to see my 3 single nosed Ailwyn, 2011, have increased to 8 noses
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Giant could mean "very large flowered" or "very tall", in my view it would ideally mean both :)
So a question for you all, approximately how tall are these drops, I like tall drops with large flowers.
Chris
Chris, what you need is a garden full of Leucojum vernum - they sound like they fit your bill! ;) :D ;D
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Dimitri they are amazing :o :o :o
I like the first photo where you can see the inners through the outers, a most attractive feature I always think.
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Chris, what you need is a garden full of Leucojum vernum - they sound like they fit your bill! ;) :D ;D
yes yes yes!!!!! Rule Maggi, rule the waves!!!! ;D I'd add also Leucojum aestivum!
the problem that if you grow a tall drop - its flowers are medium-sized like Sam Arnott ((( and you've got enormous flower - the plants are short or medium height even the leaves are fat and wide like my plicatus plants ((( Resume: very tall stems can't stand the huge fat flowers - it falls immediately :-\
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Dimitri they are amazing :o :o :o
I like the first photo where you can see the inner through the outers, a most attractive feature I always think.
Exactly, Brian! I call it "an outer perianth segment long claw effect"!! ;D ;D
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Galanthus transcaucasica sent to me from a VERY generous person :)I think the green on the outers will go next year.
(http://i1078.photobucket.com/albums/w481/davey1970/004_zps23bbce13.jpg)
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This morning I moved my pots of Howard Wheeler, Donald Sims Early and Rainbow Farm Early to staging near our back door so I could enjoy their flowers at close quarters. Over lunch my husband asked "What's wrong with your snowdrops? They're flowering too early." Is this grounds for divorce?
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This morning I moved my pots of Howard Wheeler, Donald Sims Early and Rainbow Farm Early to staging near our back door so I could enjoy their flowers at close quarters. Over lunch my husband asked "What's wrong with your snowdrops? They're flowering too early." Is this grounds for divorce?
Margaret - As long as you're assured a decent settlement before the Gala sale I'd say yes go for it.
johnw
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In port one day early this year.... plicatus ' Three Ships'.
Next in line HMS Silverwells and then Richard Ayres.
johnw
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Yes John, it is really lovely. One of my top ten too. :)
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Christmas - Weihnachten - Noël - Kerstmis 2012
1. G. cilicicus: closely related to G. peshmenii (autumn/winter flowering, applanate vernation, linear leaves, single mark on inners), not a good doer;
2. G. 'Early to Rize': probably a offspring of one of the elw. Hiemalis Group;
3. G. elw. 'Mrs McNamara': large flowers with textured outers, long pedicel;
4. G. elw. 'Peter Gatehouse': straight, skyward-pointing shape (acute at apex);
5. G. reg.-olg. ssp. reg.-olg. 'December': a selection of Koen Van Poucke (B).
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Hey, the Green Brush x Rosemary Burnham seeds are sprouting! ;D
johnw
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too eager doing a quick session of weeding and debris removal this afternoon. Pulled all the flower stems off one of snowdrop clumps. Never weed when the sun has already set!
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Sorry to hear what you have done.
>:( Bet you're feeling pretty mad at yourself Mark.
Mike
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Isn't 'Mrs McNamara' lovely?
[attachimg=1]
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Yes it is ... ::)
Can't remember having it out so early as this year.
Shot of today:
Galanthus elwesii 'Mrs McNamara
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Very nice Thomas - and do I see a little hint of sunshine in the photo?
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Mike I was angry yesterday but OK today. It was a small group of Bess which maybe arent Bess anyway
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I'm with Maggi on this one .. stands out for sheer elegance rather than for eccentricity of markings. You have way hotter summers than we do in the NE of Scotland though. Anyone up in this part of the world know how 'Mrs McNamara' does up here?
Yes it is ... ::)
Can't remember having it out so early as this year.
Shot of today:
Galanthus elwesii 'Mrs McNamara
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Good old "Peter Gatehouse" flowering unusually late this year (and photographed in rather breezy conditions)[attach=1].
I particularly like the way that the green marking on the inners is visible even when the outer petals are closed.
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Newsflash! Snowdrop shows flower in Aberdeen garden in December :D
We've been out tidying leaves and the BD spotted a small white flower -
"whazzat?" he asked, bemused.
"It's a snowdrop, dear. " I replied, kindly.
"Oh, right" says he, returning to his happy pursuit of counting the Leucojum shoots.
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We have a lot of snowdrops in the garden, but not many that are this early. David and Anke Way specialised in many of the very early cultivars, and one that they gave me - 'Rev. Hailstone' - is just about to flower. Will try and get some pictures if and when the sun shines. Does anyone else grow it? It is especially robust and striking both in leaf and flower. (Much better than 'Colossus' which is also just about out).
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Tim - We saw Rev. Hailstone at Covertside a few years back. I can't recall ever having seen it before or since. You've got a good one.
johnw - about 7cm of snow instead of the promised 40cm.
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'Rev. Hailstone' - is just about to flower. Will try and get some pictures if and when the sun shines. Does anyone else grow it? It is especially robust and striking both in leaf and flower. (Much better than 'Colossus' which is also just about out).
Much to my amazement, our Revd Hailstone and Colossus are at the same stage as yours - I'm normally weeks behind everyone else. I am fond of Revd Hailstone as it is a good tall one. Strangely though my Hunton herald has not yet put in an appearance.
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Exactly, Brian! I call it "an outer perianth segment long claw effect"!! ;D ;D
I like a nice bit of 'outer perianth segment long claw effect' too. 8) ;D
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A lovely selection of early flowers freddyvl. :)
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Despite high winds we have had quite a warm spell of weather and a few snowdrops have opened.
Desdemona
Ding Dong
Florence Baker
Mra Macnamara
Paradise Giant
Three Ships
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A few pics from yesterday when the weather was a lot better. Almost everything has started showing noses and more.
I do hope we do not get the deepfrost again from last winter, without snow -21 celsius!!
A happy new year to everyone!
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Nice little helper you have there, Gerard. I have a theory that you ought to be able to train a dog to sniff-out bulbs suffering from some of the common fungal diseases - maybe you should give it a go?
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She lifts one frontleg and her tail when she sniffes a good one Alan ;D
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Despite high winds we have had quite a warm spell of weather and a few snowdrops have opened.
Desdemona
Ding Dong
Florence Baker
Mra Macnamara
Paradise Giant
Three Ships
Very nice Paddy - are these earlier than usual with you?
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She lifts one frontleg and her tail when she sniffes a good one Alan ;D
I can't decide if she will make more money as a truffle finding dog or snowdrop finding dog.... ;D
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I can't decide if she will make more money as a truffle finding dog or snowdrop finding dog.... ;D
Why limit her? - she may do both at the relevant time of year.....these little dogs are VERY smart!
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Why limit her? - she may do both at the relevant time of year.....these little dogs are VERY smart!
I tried it with both, truffle finding and snowdrop finding, but the only thing they find are wild goats ( and those I find normally even with a cold :P ;))
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Very nice Paddy - are these earlier than usual with you?
Chris, these seem to be at about the same time as last year. I had thought 'Ding Dong' was earlier that previous years but looked back on last year's photographs and found I had them fully open on the 1st of January 2012.
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This is the result of 'truffle' hunting in our garden!
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This is the result of 'truffle' hunting in our garden!
I've seen that look before....
....I'm sure that is the result of frog hunting! :D ;D
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This is the result of 'truffle' hunting in our garden!
You've heard the saying... "you can't make an omelette without breaking eggs...." ?!!!
I've seen that look before....
....I'm sure that is the result of frog hunting! :D ;D
Yup, like I said - versatile dogs!