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General Subjects => General Forum => Topic started by: daveyp1970 on November 29, 2012, 10:27:54 AM

Title: Genetic drift
Post by: daveyp1970 on November 29, 2012, 10:27:54 AM
Could somebody recommend a book or a paper or papers to read so i can fully understand the concept of genetic drift please.
Title: Re: Genetic drift
Post by: mark smyth on November 29, 2012, 10:36:04 AM
I had to Google what it means http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetic_drift (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetic_drift)
Title: Re: Genetic drift
Post by: daveyp1970 on November 29, 2012, 10:40:37 AM
I had to Google what it means http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetic_drift (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetic_drift)
I have done that also Mark  :) and looked at a few papers but the more i read the more i take it in...i read and read and then i have the lightbulb moment and i am there... ;D
Title: Re: Genetic drift
Post by: Anthony Darby on November 30, 2012, 01:37:10 AM
I remember a small population of meadow brown butterflies on Crammond Island near Edinburgh becoming isolated for a few years when the causeway was washed away. Genetic drift increased the number of marginal wing spots quite dramatically on this small isolated population, until the causeway was reinstated and then they merged with those on the mainland.
Title: Re: Genetic drift
Post by: Maggi Young on November 30, 2012, 11:28:47 AM
I used to live in Cramond.... near the island - why would a causeway have any effect on a  creature with the ability to fly? It's  only about a quarter of a mile offshore....  :-\ ???
Title: Re: Genetic drift
Post by: Anthony Darby on November 30, 2012, 06:52:16 PM
Apparently they didn't. It was George Thomson who did the study.
Title: Re: Genetic drift
Post by: Martin Baxendale on November 30, 2012, 07:49:30 PM
I used to live in Cramond.... near the island - why would a causeway have any effect on a  creature with the ability to fly? It's  only about a quarter of a mile offshore....  :-\ ???

Maybe they just wouldn't fly more than a very short distance over water, instinct telling them they were flying out to sea and shouldn't go any further, but with the causeway in place they could follow that strip of dry land back and forth?

Butterflies from the mainland would have no way of knowing that there was land out there to head for, so no new genetic material reaching the island to mix things up.
Title: Re: Genetic drift
Post by: Maggi Young on November 30, 2012, 08:39:22 PM
Sounds plausible, Martin - except that when the tide is out the island is accessible over sand......  :-\
Title: Re: Genetic drift
Post by: Gerry Webster on November 30, 2012, 08:55:06 PM
For anyone seriously interested in the theory of genetic drift I suggest John Maynard Smith, Evolutionary Genetics. A good background in biology is required together with a willingness to do some hard intellectual work.
Title: Re: Genetic drift
Post by: Martin Baxendale on November 30, 2012, 09:07:22 PM
Sounds plausible, Martin - except that when the tide is out the island is accessible over sand......  :-\

Ah! Back to the drawing board then.
Title: Re: Genetic drift
Post by: Martin Baxendale on November 30, 2012, 09:10:16 PM
For anyone seriously interested in the theory of genetic drift I suggest John Maynard Smith, Evolutionary Genetics. A good background in biology is required together with a willingness to do some hard intellectual work.

My son's doing evolutionary genetics at Liverpool University as part of his degree in Ecology and the Environment. I'll see if he's been introduced to genetic drift yet. It'll give us something to talk about at Xmas  ;D
Title: Re: Genetic drift
Post by: Guus on November 30, 2012, 09:22:10 PM
In Campbell/Reece/Mitchell's BIOLOGY you can find a clear explanation on Genetic Drift. Together with bottleneck effects.

Greetings, Guus
Title: Re: Genetic drift
Post by: daveyp1970 on November 30, 2012, 10:35:52 PM
In Campbell/Reece/Mitchell's BIOLOGY you can find a clear explanation on Genetic Drift. Together with bottleneck effects.

Greetings, Guus
Thank you Guus and Gerry.
Title: Re: Genetic drift
Post by: Rick R. on November 30, 2012, 11:18:09 PM

Another possibility, but perhaps less probably, is that the environmental change (if indeed there was one) that kept the causeway washed out, also had an effect on butterfly morphology.  Many species change their "spots" or even there sex ratios in response to environmental cues.
Title: Re: Genetic drift
Post by: Anthony Darby on December 01, 2012, 04:20:13 AM
If my memory serves me correctly, the causeway had a grass verge, so the population was continuous with the mainland. When the causeway was washed away this caused the vital break with the mainland. Similar studies have been carried out on small populations is the Scilly Isles. Interestingly, the form in north western Scotland is sufficiently distinct to be given its own subspecies name, Maniola jurtina splendida.
Title: Re: Genetic drift
Post by: Guus on December 01, 2012, 10:14:15 AM
I could imagine the named 'bottleneck effect' plays a role in this case. Environmental pressure, or the absence of that, may cause a gene-flow over time. it takes time to make genes/alleles to tend to disappear and create homozygous individuals. It takes more time to make the population to lose certain alleles.. The smaller the number of individuals, the faster the process might go.
Interesting stuff though.
Greetings, Guus
Title: Re: Genetic drift
Post by: daveyp1970 on December 01, 2012, 11:20:44 AM
I could imagine the named 'bottleneck effect' plays a role in this case. Environmental pressure, or the absence of that, may cause a gene-flow over time. it takes time to make genes/alleles to tend to disappear and create homozygous individuals. It takes more time to make the population to lose certain alleles.. The smaller the number of individuals, the faster the process might go.
Interesting stuff though.
Greetings, Guus
Very interesting stuff!
Title: Re: Genetic drift
Post by: Anthony Darby on December 02, 2012, 09:37:09 AM
It's all in the NCEA year 12/13 curriculum. 8)
Title: Re: Genetic drift
Post by: daveyp1970 on December 02, 2012, 09:42:21 AM
It's all in the NCEA year 12/13 curriculum. 8)
Wow i wish i was younger again.Our local Horticultural College has stopped doing all Horticultural courses,what a shame.
Title: Re: Genetic drift
Post by: frits.kp on December 02, 2012, 08:13:27 PM
I didn't know what Genetic drift was until looking up Zoos, Botanical Gardens, and Genetic Drift in my Popular Genetics and Evolution book, fascinating. Oh I can't help, sorry, but just wanted to say thank you for bringing up the subject for me to read.
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