Scottish Rock Garden Club Forum
Bulbs => Crocus => Topic started by: Janis Ruksans on November 15, 2012, 08:05:34 PM
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This year was incredibly rich for me with travels. Now, at end of season, counting trips of this season, I came to incredible number – 7 trips in one season. And could be even eight if not lime disease which cancelled my trip to Macedonia (former Yugoslavia). But all it started by invitation from Dr. Arne Striid, famous botanist and editor of coming Flora of Greece, to write Crocus chapter for this book. So four of my trips were just to Greece, two to Turkey (spring and autumn) and one to Kazakhstan.
In Greece main targets were few new most likely still undescribed crocus species and one of them was really found (I wrote about this earlier), another trip raised some doubts in Brian Mathews opinion about Crocus laevigatus, and it seems that there will be some changes, too. One certainly new one (at least I suppose so) will come in Crocus biflorus group. Due storm in sea it was impossible to get its locality. But most of time I used for finding of Crocus speciosus in Greece. In his monograph Brian wrote that all records about C. speciosus in European Turkey and Balcans really are only C. pulchellus. A year later in his conspectus about Greek crocuses he mentions some records about C. speciosus in Greece. So my target was to check this – is there really C. speciosus in Greece or not and if it is growing there what is its taxonomic status due great isolation from other localities.
From my English friend I got some coordinates about one locality where he saw C. speciosus growing together with C. robertianus. Twice I visited spot in early spring – too early even for finding leaves. At third visit I spotted leaves but they all turned only C. robertianus.
Now I went there in autumn. I passed half a day checking all possible spots where C. speciosus could grow, but everywhere I saw only Crocus robertianus in full bloom. Altitude was around 600-700 meters. So remained only two possibilities – I’m there too early for so low locality or population is completely destroyed. I’m not mentioning localities, to keep wild populations. So in this entry variability of Crocus robertianus in wild and some other picture from same place.
Janis
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7 trips! I am lucky if I make just one!
Some nice forms of Crocus robertianus there.
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By materials for Flora of Greece I saw that C. speciosus were noted at two another localities in Greece, Google Earth showed much higher altitudes and as autumn bloomers start blooming at mountain tops and then go down, remained hope to find them there and we decided to go just to most N population at first - where blooming could be started. It is not very far from Albanian border in fantastical place, registered in Guinness Record Book as deepest and narrowest canyon on the Earth - Vikos Canyon in Vikos National Park. Road there was quite nice but passing Arta we were meted by horrible thunderstorm - endless lightening, strong wind breaking trees and with other cars we stopped on roadside as driving became too dangerous. When we restarted our road to Vikos road became as serpentine for broken tree trunks, fortunately always left some narrow space for passing. Late in afternoon we reached Monodendri in Vikos National Park where found excellent and very moderately priced hotel just near village centre. We made few pictures in evening and again in morning showing clouds in valley below us and in morning went to check this wonder - Vikos Canyon. Good road guides us almost till real gorge from where opened fantastic view down in gorge.
But my main target was to find Crocus speciosus. It took quite long time to get mountain meadow which could be habitat of this species. And quite soon I spotted first plant - it was just bud emerging from ground. After last night’s storm it was almost hopeless to find some flower there. During half day long research I found only some 15-18 plants from which I collected 1 for possible type herbarium, one for DNA checking and two for collection. Collecting one of them rolled out another corm still without roots and only starting to form shoot - this confirmed that it was only very start of blooming season and we were there too early. Several flowers were pushed down flat on ground by heavy rain, but day was sunny and when sunshine get the slope, some flowers widely opened allowing to make few pictures.
Janis
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Janis
lovely pictures of Crocus robertianus. When were you there?
I visited the site between Lidoriki and Nafpaktos on !st November and there was only one plant with a nearly dead flower to be seen. There were lots of C. cancellatus which were closed as it was raining hard. I assumed I was too late.
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Janis
lovely pictures of Crocus robertianus. When were you there?
I visited the site between Lidoriki and Nafpaktos on !st November and there was only one plant with a nearly dead flower to be seen. There were lots of C. cancellatus which were closed as it was raining hard. I assumed I was too late.
Pictures were maid 16th of October. Are you certain that it was cancellatus? Really I know only about robertianus and speciosus at this locality. Cancellatus could be mixed with speciosus if you are not checking corm tunics.
Janis
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Hello!
Wonderful pictures!!!
Beautiful landscape and crocusses!
Did I understand correctly?
The pictures at the first post are C.robertianus and from 3.post are C.speciosus?!
Greetings from Germany- Daniel
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Hello!
Wonderful pictures!!!
It is not pulchellus, but just speciosus!
Janis
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The weather was wonderful and the second half of day we use to enjoy nature wonders around Vikos - so named “stone forest”, stone bridges over many streams and of course marvellous home wine and coffee. Home wine in various hotels and restaurants is different. On Monodendri it was excellent and we took a bottle with us to next sleeping/dinner place. On attached pictures you can see entry to our hotel, on next picture my daughter with her husband, then stone forest and bridges. From plants only Colchicum cupanii. There was another Colchicum species, too, but its flowers were too heavy damaged by the last night’s showers. Next morning we went to third locality for C. speciosus, located just in middle - between most N situated at Vikos and most S situated some 50 km from Delfi. But again we found nothing. Most likely it was too early, but I was not searching too carefully, too as I got needed sample for DNA research. After returning to home I found in full flowers C. speciosus from near Delfi, which I got this autumn from Gothenburg. Morphologically it looked very close to Vikos plants, although of different colour pattern. That one you can see on next entry.
Janis
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Hello Janis!
I just noticed the error itself and just changed the post ...
But you were faster.
Daniel
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On this entry so long searched C. speciosus from S location in Greece, which bloomed in my home and laughed about my search. It seem that my collection became too large if I even not remember more all crocuses grown by me (at present somewhere around 1400 samples).
Janis
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Pictures were maid 16th of October. Are you certain that it was cancellatus? Really I know only about robertianus and speciosus at this locality. Cancellatus could be mixed with speciosus if you are not checking corm tunics.
Janis
I had the site from a Danish botanist and I am quite certain they were cancellatus. he records hadriaticus from this same site.
I have a couple of plants from a previous collection and will verify it when they die down in the spring.
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We are sleeping in Delphi. Not the best and not the cheapest hotel and not good lunch we got in restaurant selected by us for evening meal. Back in hotel we enjoy wine fortunately taken with us from Monodendri. .
In morning we visit ancient Delphi ruins and then driving to pay-bridge over Gulf. Our target is Stemnitsa – beautiful mountain village where few years ago I collected some Crocus melantherus. Now I want to revisit this locality for more detailed research. We select “scenic road” and it really is very nice winding up in mountains and again I’m spotting some crocuses on roadside. Brief look confirms that it is Crocus mazziaricus. Brian Mathew regards this one as subspecies of cancellatus. I don’t like this merging, so I prefer to regard it as separate species as well as C. lycius, C. pamphylicus and C. dispathaceus from Turkey. Really C. mazziaricus from Peloponnesus looks quite different comparing with Turkish forms of mazziaricus. Greek plants generally are white or whitish with paler stigma, Turkish generally are blue and with bright orange to reddish stigmatic branches. But there would be needed more careful research.
Janis
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We are driving by road which turns from coastal highway to Athens inside Peloponnesus at Trapeza. Road really is very beautiful (marked green as scenic road on our maps). Really shocked we are seeing new hotel (?) attached to high rock as swallows nest. Similar I saw in NE Turkey - it is Sumeli monastery built up from 6th century and finished at 13th century. Monks searched for distanced safe spot, but for modern house? I will not have courage to live in such hotel even for one night. So we drive further up to Demitsana - fantastically beautiful city something before Stemnitsa because just passing Demitsana we found excellent hotel. There is only 10 minutes walk to village centre with very good restaurant, and good wine of course.
In morning we are going to Stemnitsa. It is my third visit there. At first I went there with my stepdaughter in autumn 2008 - there were plenty of Crocus melantherus. I revisited spot with my wife in 2011 - to show her this beautiful village and landscapes by road to Olympus. Then I saw no one melantherus but everywhere bloomed in same abundance C. boryi (in 2008 I saw there no one). I wanted to see this place again and now I found both species together - last flowers of boryi and first of melantherus - both in moderate numbers. Visit dates each case were approximately same. But I collected one specimen with distinctly gold coloured back of outer petals. Will se - will it keep its special colour in cultivation or not?
Janis
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thanks for your travel report and images from sights & habitats - some mystical places to cause surprise. 8)
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As really I got all what I needed I’m going with my children to visit historic monuments and scenic roads. One of monuments not far from Stemnitsa is Ancient Gortys - on picture remnants of old health service place where patients were cured by aromatic herbs, oils and steam. We select narrow road back to Stemnitsa, but road is very good. On opposite side of gorge I note very unusual formation - stalactites and stalagmites in open air (not in cave) but more careful look shows that very long ago large part of rock broke down in valley and so opened to eyes remnants of earlier hided cave. Then we go for lunch to Dimitsana - very scenic, well conserved city. Yesterday evening was too dark for pictures - so wee use some time to watch village’s beauties. Few pictures attached. Following day we have plain to home, so we turn to direction of Athens, but day is long - so short side drive where again meadow with many C. melantherus but in this case mixed with C. mazziaricus. Those pictures are on next entry.
Janis
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Returning to home I have one week to check my plants, still to plant few and saw some seeds and then to new trip - now to Turkey to check Turkish C. speciosus populations. At first I want to check how widely is growing subspecies ibrahimii, then I need authentic samples of subsp. ilgazensis and xantholaimos for DNA research, just material from wild as many cultivated stocks grown from seeds can be unintentional hybrids with other forms or C. pulchellus.
Janis
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I’m landing in Istanbul quite late in afternoon. Fortunately I booked Hotel (Antic Hotel) well ahead for only 50,- Euro per night. It is not expensive for such quality of hotel (very good, with excellent breakfast) in old Istanbul. Hotel sent for me shuttle bus and soon I’m in bed. In night was very heavy rain, strongest wind with endless lightening, but morning is nice and sunny regardless of quite bad weather broadcast for this day. It seems that rain came earlier than supposed.
In morning I met with Ibrahim who brings me to his garden - to show his collection. He arranged for me rented car which waits me at his house. Unfortunately Ibrahim is too busy in his job, so he can’t accompany me in mountains. So I’m going alone but my navigator brings me through jungles of Istanbul without any problems.
Ibrahim show me nice population of C. pulchellus - still inside Istanbul, some corner of untouched nature between developing living blocks. It is the single population of Crocus pulchellus seen by me during this trip.
Unfortunately nights shower damaged almost all crocus flowers in Ibrahim’s garden, most of them lie down flattened to soil and dirty. Only new-comers of this morning blooms nicely and the best is Crocus nerimaniae - completely healthy stock as was grown up from seeds, not from wild bulbs which for more than 90% are virusinfected. Another beauty is C. sativus. Unfortunately night rain maid ground roads unpassable for both - car and pedestrian, so I can only from distance to watch habitat from where comes type specimen of Crocus speciosus ibrahimii. Picture of this specimen you can see AGS Bulletin this summer. Ibrahim makes for me tea and he must go back to his job but I’m going further in direction of Greece border. I want to see how widespread and how variable is subsp. ibrahimii and its habitats in nature.
Janis
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Wonderful travel log and pictures Janis.
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I continue my road to west without Ibrahim. Sorry, I’m not giving localities and villages where I stopped, but everywhere by road I met only C. speciosus ibrahimii and nowhere any C. pulchellus. Both are quite similar and it is not wonder that subsp. ibrahimii earlier was regarded as C. pulchellus. Easiest way how to separate both is branching of the stigma and its position to anthers. Look on previous entry – pulchellus stigma has few branches only and it ends between anthers. C. speciosus ibrahimii stigma is many branched and well overtop anthers. There is some variation, but usually it is caused by some development problems.
I’m stopping between large heather fields with some openings and low shrubs. It looks as crocus place and there really I found my first ibrahimii. Further to West I found it generally in clearings of dwarf oak forests and rarely even under trees. In most cases it grew in quite wet spots and seems that it prefers some sun although not the spell.
I’m around 25 km from Greek border when I reach last locality. It is too dark for searching of crocuses and my schedule don’t allow for me to stay another day for searching of C. speciosus ibrahimii so I’m turning back to some roadside hotel.
Janis
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We were all pleased to see your first flower from the Crocus speciosus ibrahimii earlier this year :
http://www.srgc.net/forum/index.php?topic=9528.msg255822#msg255822 (http://www.srgc.net/forum/index.php?topic=9528.msg255822#msg255822)
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On the way through Crocus ibrahimii localities I stopped on place which looked different from Crocus speciosus habitats, but other ways seemed excellent Crocus spot. And I was right – the open clay meadow was full with very variable Crocus pallasii. Another locality with Crocus pallasii I found at very end of my first days marshrout, too.
Janis
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On the way through Crocus ibrahimii localities I stopped on place which looked different from Crocus speciosus habitats, but other ways seemed excellent Crocus spot. And I was right – the open clay meadow was full with very variable Crocus pallasii. Another locality with Crocus pallasii I found at very end of my first days marshrout, too.
Janis
Wonderful pictures and Crocus !
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I’m awakening very early in morning. Last day was very hot and I put my jacket in bag, but at last spot suddenly came very strong and cold wind, but darkness was running and I wanted to make last photo’s of crocuses, so didn’t returned to car for dressing up warmer and as result rhinitis and cough. So I slept quite poorly. But each stick has two ends. Early start allowed for passing Istanbul and bridge to Asiatic Turkey without great problems.
I’m taking quite unusual road alongside Black Sea making some right turns from it where small roads go in - more thinking about landscapes and not so much about crocuses. This was the best solution during my trip giving sensational discovery. I’m more than half-way to Sinop when after several kilometres of driving by not well looked very narrow road through small villages suddenly under high shrubs I spotted on roadside bright lilac spots. I don’t trust to my eyes - Crocus speciosus. I switch off and restart my navigation, because it shows only 60 m altitude. But it again and again shows only 60 m. For Crocus speciosus lowest altitudes are registered 800 m. Single exception is subsp. ibrahimii growing at 100-400 m altitudes, but it makes link between speciosus and pulchellus growing from sea level up to 1800m (by B. Mathew, I found it not lower than 50 m). Approximating plants, I’m surprised by bright yellow throat which forth me to think about xantholaimos, but altitude, distance from xantholaimos localities? Closer look shows several features separating it from xantholaimos and from type subspecies. Different is corm, too. So it is new species or subspecies of speciosus. Now I wait for DNA results.
Sometimes it is worth to use new, unusual roads. But I lost a lot of time and so now I hurry to reach end point of my trip - Sinop - city from where turns up road to mountains where subsp. xantholaimos are growing. I’m something alarmed - speciosus flowers at so low altitude. It means that at high altitudes crocus blooming could be ended. In autumn flowering starts at mountain tops and then gradually goes to lower located places just opposit to spring schedule. Really the dates of my trip are quite late. It is very late afternoon when I’m reaching Sinop. Fortunately tourist season ended and there are no problems to find hotel.
Janis
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Wow! realy nicely coloured speciosus, shining like a nova ;D
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From Sinop I’m going up in mountains from where on pass in some 60 km distance is locus clasicus for Crocus speciosus xantholaimos. There is new road through mountains by new tunnel, but still old road up to passes is in normal condition for driving and soon I'm on pass. I’m pleasantly surprised seeing it in full flowers, regardless of altitude and late calendar date. Another surprise is that in nature bright yellow throat is not so widely distributed. In some places dominates specimens with lighter yellow throat and only few have really deep yellow throat, but stigma is few-branched and usually don’t overtop anthers. Of course - plants are variable and there are some “outliners” of this rule, but this only confirms how important is to see natural population. Judging by single plant can give you wrong impression about some species.
Really I had subsp. xantholaimos in my collection, but all my stocks originated from commercial growers, so it was impossible to guarantee that there didn’t happen some hybridization with other subspecies. For DNA comparing is requested pure material, so I’m collecting some specimens just for research purposes. Subsp. xantholaimos I found at 1200 - 1300 m altitude on open slopes and yaila meadows. My observations in Crimea, Caucasus showed that type subspecies tends to something protected areas - on sides of yailas, where are groups of trees, sometimes even under trees, where they are at least partly protected from full sun. In similar conditions I found Greek speciosus and subsp. ibrahimii, too. Subsp. xantholaimos grow in full sun.
Janis
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Sinop is most eastern situated point of my current trip. Of course - Crocus speciosus is growing further to East, too - even up to Iran from where I described subsp. archibaldiorum. Unfortunately my time limit doesn’t allow go further to East. I have few samples from this part of Turkey collected at start of Millennium during our common expeditions with Gothenburg Botanical Garden. Those were collected in summer by dry leaves. So really I have samples from there allowing to judge about variability and changing of species. Of course visit at blooming time gives much wider and better impression about variability, so may be some of further trips will be directed there. But now I’m turning back to Ilgaz-dag from where is described subsp. ilgazensis.
It is just subsp. ilgazensis for which I mostly came to Turkey this autumn. My stocks of ilgazensis all were from commercial growers, most likely at least some were multiplied from seeds and one stock clearly turned hybrid with pulchellus. I separated hybrid plants and as they all were very uniform I gave them cultivar name ‘Fantasy’. They are very nice, but look much more as pulchellus - only striping and form of petals shows presence of speciosus blood in those. Others seem to be true but such specimens are not usable for DNA checking.
Janis
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Subsp. ilgazensis grow higher in mountains. I found it at 1900m altitude at very end of blooming. So only few pictures I made and most of flowers were not of perfect shape. It is National park so it took quite long time for me for searching of 2-3 specimens for DNA research growing out of National Park borderline, but finally I found small population located on unprotected area. They were with washed down flowers, so attached pictures are made in National park. This saved me from temptation to make crime collecting it in protected area. Really I don’t know what I will be doing if not succeed with finding of this small group. May be researcher could win in my brain?
To illustrate how important is to see as much specimens as possible I’m including two pictures of atypical plant - such was only one, but its stigma is many-branched and overtops anthers - so it more looks as type subspecies. But may be type subspecies reach ilgazensis area?
Janis
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I found all what I needed and so quietly turned back to Istanbul. By road to west I’m checking almost all mountain passes. I still have 2 full days for research and one day for reaching Airport. On my way back almost on every mountain pass on altitudes between 1200 and 1800 m I found Crocus speciosus. Lowest point was at 800 m where on small spot between trees were growing few C. speciosus. There everywhere are growing another quite special but identical on all passes form of Crocus speciosus. Returning in Latvia I made table in which I put all registered features separating those forms - all turned well separable. So at present I suppose that under name of Crocus speciosus are hided 8 or even 9 different crocuses. Five of them are described as subspecies (type subspecies, archibaldiorum, xantholaimos, ilgazensis and ibrahimii), still 3 need further research (Greek populations and two from Turkey) and remain another one from near Antalya in very S of Turkey, which I never saw by myself, but it was discovered by my Swedish friends and at end I’m attaching few pictures of it. May be Dave will name me splitter, but those really are different when we check all plant and compare all features, which in each form are very constant and different from others.
Only one of passes visited by me on road back to Istanbul was too densely covered by forest without any spot looking as “crocus spot”. Road was fantastical, it was just top of “golden autumn” so several landscape pictures are included.
Of course this part again and again confirmed how important is to see the all population. On a pair of passes I found individual specimen jumping “out of borders”. Is it permanent or caused by seasonal conditions at its spot? Don’t know this. Crocuses are very variable. General view of population allows make some judgments. Best foundlings were pure white specimen in last population as well as very nicely dark dotted specimen of incredible beauty. During my trips I found only 2 albinos - one on Crimea (slightly bluish shaded) and now purest white on pass over Bolu.
On following 3 entries you can see Crocus speciosus type found on my road back between Ilgaz-dag and Istanbul.
Janis
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Further pictures
Janis
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Last pictures - unusual forms found on road back and very special from very South of Turkey.
Janis
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So field season is finished. Looking back in my bookshelf I saw that my travel diaries occupy almost 1 meter of space, and I really was surprised seeing the first diaries back with cipher “1977” - so it means that current year is some small jubilee - I finished my 35-th field session. It is good cipher. Really my first trip was in 1975 but then I had no diary, no list of collected plants, although few from this I’m still growing and just then I for the first time discovered and collected few bulbs of Iris pseudocapnoides described later by me in Buried Treasures, but I’m not counting this as too unserious trip - but it made me ill with mountains.
Looking back on lists of collected and introduced in cultivation plants I’m something surprised by the number of plants checked in my collection during those years. Many didn’t like my conditions, especially under soviet regime, when greenhouses were not allowed in private gardens. Some I lost for my own faults and from those most painful losses for me is Allium brachyscapum (hope to restore it from seeds, received this summer).
Great surprise for me brought Kazakhstan trip this May when after coming to Alma-Ata I was greeted in hotel’s hall by our guide Vladimir with words - Janis, do you remember me? He was the young man whom I met in Kara-tau Mountains during my fifth trip. At that time he was there exploring local snake population and maid some pictures. Shortly ago he found his old pictures from that time and sent one scan to me (you can see it here). Now one new tulip species brings his name - Tulipa kolbintzevii. I went to Kazakhstan mostly for Crocus alatavicus samples from most eastern locations - generally for checking of DNA variation in different populations of its wide area.
At present my collection raised to almost 6000 samples, from those crocuses by last revision something exceeds 1500 samples. Far too much in both numbers. But how to stop? Every autumn at replanting time I want to shorten my collection, but results are as they are - planting books becomes thicker and thicker. I think that best illustration you can see on last picture - painting on postcard sent to me by my Norwegian friend.
My bag is in rooms corner now waiting for spring, when again I will go to Greece, where still 1-2 crocuses are waiting for checking of their status. And may be they are new?
Janis
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A great thread with some very interesting plants. Many thanks for the guided tour
Ian