Scottish Rock Garden Club Forum
Bulbs => Crocus => Topic started by: Thomas Huber on November 01, 2007, 08:02:33 AM
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Good morning November!
Despite the early started flowering season I still have many crocus in my garden!
- cancellatus ssp lycius
- cancellatus ssp pamphyllicus - the only cancellatus with white anthers (2 photos)
- cancellatus ssp mazziaricus
- biflorus ssp melantherus - the black-anthered autumn biflorus (thanks Dirk)
- ? this blue beauty was found in a hadriaticus mix, but the long red style points for cartwrightianus. Any other ideas?
- longiflorus collected on Sicily, a small, dark form which is my favourite of all longiflorus (2 photos)
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.... and some more:
- 2 forms of laevigatus
- ochroleucus, the trade form
- hadriaticus M 5048 with its wonderful stripes
- one of my favourite autumn crocus, robertianus
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thats a good show. We have another dull autumn day and heavy rain. I'm still worried about the absence of Crocus flowers. There has been no sign of nice in the pots. I'll knock a few out this weekend.
Various korolokowii and chrysanthus now have colour showing at the tip of their buds
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That is very, very early, Mark. My chrysanthus only have the first leaves! No sign of korolkowii.
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Fabulous Thomas - Some super plants and beautifully photographed.
Are most of these new arrivals or have they been outside for one or more winters already? They certainly look happy in your garden .... here the Atlantic influence on the weather would 'challenge' some of them. This year with a cool wet summer the display from my autumn crocus planted outside has been very poor - and the cool, wet autumn has not helped them to look good either.
Mark - are we talking flower buds or just the shoots??
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Great show Thomas !
That C. robertianus is a cracker (as are all the others) ;D
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Tony, lycius and the complete second batch arrived 2006, the rest is new in my garden!
We had only one day (yesterday) with sunshine here, today its foggy and dark again :-[
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Lovely pictures Thomas. I specially like the cream laevigatus.
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Absolutely beautiful Thomas.
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Tony the colour is showing at ground level in the noses
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Thomas, you do take some excellent photos-I do agree with you ,the single flower of Cr.hadriaticus is Cr. cartwrightianus ,in hadriaticus the style is divided at a point well above the throat into 3 slender orange-red branches-your dark form of longiflorus from Sicily is unusual & handsome, i grow a form from Malta which is not quite as dark.I also have a cream form of laevigatus from Crete, very small flowers.Your photo of robertianis ,it is hard to make out if it is the normal lilac or the albino form ?
Ciao Otto.
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Thanks Otto for the confirmation of my ID, allthough I think my cartwrightianus/hadriaticus could be of hybrid origin - note the defective whitish anthers!
Robertianus is an intermediate between blue and white - indeed not obviously from the photo, but in the garden you can notice a soft hint of blue in the colour. The albino and the blue form have flowered somewhat earlier.
The dark longiflorus is the only flower I have this year, so its unlikely to set seed, but possibly next year ;)
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Thomas,your unknown Crocus is possibly a seedling from
Crocus cartwrightianus 'Albus' hort. Seed from this hybrid
bring nice forms between hadriaticus and cartwrightianus.
Crocus ex. cartwrightianus 'Albus' hort.
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Howdy All,
Great pics everyone. Particularly like Thomas' hadriaticus mix and the dark longiflorus.... and any laevigatus is a good laevigatus!! ;D Thanks for taking the time to post your pics everyone.
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The BD always says Crocus sativus is difficult to grow but I have had a go and I agree with him, but yet Franz has shown pictures of a lovely clump. I planted mine, which were garden centre bought, in my new bulb bed in a nice rich gritty soil. I planted them a good 15cm deep in a basket and on the same day I planted 3 of the corms in a pot just to hedge my bets.
The result has been, so far, two flowers in the soil and plenty of leaf (the picture shows one of the flowers as whilst I was preparing to take a photograph my neighbours three year old, who comes to 'help' me, picked one of them for his Mum!) but the potted corms are a long way behind.
Should I disturb the soil based corms next August/September or give them another year in situ?
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David if you bought your Crocus this year the flowers were already set. You dont want to move Crocus in September as they will have already rooted. Move them in early summer
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A couple of crocus pics taken today
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Nice crocus Rob
Is the blue one in the ground under trees and the lilac one in a pot under glass?
They are very well opened so You must have nice weather or a good trick to get them open.
I hope You get them identified since they (atleast the blue) seem to handle weather well.
Thanks for sharing.
Kind regards from windy Sweden where all the crucuses is flat on the ground :(
Joakim
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I think the first one is Speciosus and the second Goulimyi
It has been a reasonable day here, no wind but a bit overcast. We've had several days like this last week hence the one outside looking good.
Some of the earlier flowers in the middle of October were flattened
I used a flash to take the pictures, so the colours may not be exact
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Hi all ,
here some Crocus pics from my garden today :
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Hans what does PE-Pe-CU mean?
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Thanks for the information Rob. :)
CU is most likely close-up Mark but the rest I do no know either.
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Please accept the numerous "Wooows!!!" and "Ahhhhhs!!!" from a french -and fully amateur- newbie, for all the wonders I discovered recently on this forum, and on this thread!
My soil isn't as adequate for crocus as I would like (clayish, poor drainage), but I love fall crocus and some of them seem to accept these conditions, at least in some special, chosen places .
So far, Crocus pulchellus Zephyr (my profile pic, of course! ;)), and Crocus speciosus seem to progress nicely.
(http://www.zimagez.com/miniature/crocuszephyr30090702.jpg) (http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/crocuszephyr30090702.php)
(http://www.zimagez.com/miniature/crocusspeciosus5231005.jpg) (http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/crocusspeciosus5231005.php)
I'm specially fond of crocus species and varieties with showy, antler-shaped coral stamens...
This forum is going to start a new addiction, I fear it... ;D
I recently received some mathewi, niveus, vallicola and goulimyi from P. Christian's, and hope to give them company in the years to come!
Congratulations to each of you for your marvelous plants and pics..and for your passion!
Greetings from France
Zephirine
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Hans what does PE-Pe-CU mean?
Mark : thats only for me ....Thanks for the information Rob. :)
CU is most likely close-up Mark but the rest I do no know either.
Joakim : you are rigth with CU
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Hi Zephirine, and welcome to the forum.
You have a nice collection of Crocus and take good pictures.
I like your display package, it is one that I have not seen before. I liked the way that I can keep zooming in on C. puchelus bit I note that with the speciosus I can only toggle backwards and forwards between two sizes of image.
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Thank you David! I don't quite understand about the pulchellus...both pics are kept on the same site, and I can only have 2 sizes myself, but, well...I dunno...
::)
Zeph
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Rob: You're right - the first crocus is speciosus, the second goulimyi!
Welcome Zephirine, would be great to get you addicted, too ;)
If you want to plant your new Crocus in the open garden,
mix up your soil with lots of sand!
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This time I want to show some pictures from a turkish rock garden.
It looks a little bit like srgc. It may gives some ideas for groving.
(http://www.ngbb.gen.tr/)
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Vielen Dank for the advice, Thomas, but I'm afraid that wouldn't work here : if I mix sand with clay...the result will look like concrete!
I have to add a lot of humus first, mulch, add a bit of peat (even if I usually refrain from using it, to preserve nature), and let my friends the worms complete the work for me.
The only way that works for me to enhance drainage in the meantime, is to plant on top of a slightly raised mound...
MfG
Zephirine
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And also some pictures. It was late for many of autumn bulbs but still there were some in flower.
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I know this is wrong but I will put two galanthus pictures also here because as I know croconats like also galanthus.
G. peshmenii (taken yesterday)
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What a wonderful series of photos, Ibrahim - many thanks for sharing them!
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Crocus pictures are simply beautiful - many thanks Ibrahim
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Very nice pics everyone :)
Ibrahim nice to see a Turkish rock garden :)
Zephirine use courser things like gravel rather than sand and then it does most likely not pack. Something in the range of 2-4mm in diameter or even bigger. That is the the advise they give here in Sweden.
Kind regards
Joakim
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OK, I'll give it a try, Joakim, thank you!
I do have many, many stones in my garden, but they are mostly rounded, ancient ice-rollen stones from 1" to 1' and over! Brought from the Alps by the river Rhone some million years ago. And wrapped in my clayish usual lot!
I'll try to increase the number of smaller stones, then!
Zephirine
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Crocus wattiorum is a beauty. Can you post a tighter shot of the flower?
Is there nothing in place to stop plants being stolen from the gardens in Turkey?
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That's a very interesting garden Ibrahim. Where exactly is it? There seems to be a major city very close by. I like the big raised beds for the bulbs. They are really huge troughs. Some more detail please.
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Zephirine
The best sort is the crushed stones that are irregular shapes and therefor do not pack so well. We also use this type to put on roads that have ice to make them less slippery. Maybe then it is a slightly bigger version 5-8 mm or so. Round stones packwell and are not that great in airing the soil or adding drainage if I understood things right.
Good luck
Joakim
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Interesting pictures from a Turkish rock garden - and some very healthy looking crocus too. I am assuming this is a Botanic Garden not close to where you live Ibrahim ... I visited their web-site but I cannot translate :( Will you be able to give us regular visits through your pictures? I hope so! Thanks.
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This garden is nearly in the center of istanbul and not far to me (20 km.) I did not know there were a garden so close to me. This is my first visit but I will visit often when I find free time. I met with director
He is an old prof. from university. He was kind and helpfull. I think he is the person who made leadership to Dave in Antalya last autumn. Garden is situated
very nice specialy for bulbs. Most of bulbs were in privated corner you need private pass with an attendant. But they are helpfull.
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Anyone got any Crocus speciosus to spare?
The photo belongs to Dutch supplier JS Pennings and stolen borrowed from Daffnet
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Anyone got any Crocus speciosus to spare?
Nice pic, Mark. They look like the ones I got (wrongly of course) as Oxonian from all the nurseries I ordered from this year!!! >:(
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I need the help of experts again. I grow these Crocuses under the name C. pallasii ssp. pallassi. All bulbs come from same place of Turkey. Some are self seedlings. At present still in flower. Is the ID correct?
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I can't comment on the ID Franz but what lovely crocuses, and as always doing so well in your beautiful lawn.
Re Crocus speciosus above, these MUST be planted by mechanical means. (Just imagine down on hands and knees to plant that lot!!!) But in that case, does the machine always know how to plant the corm the right way up or are many planted up-side-down but, presumably, still sprout OK and come up and flower? I ask because when I have a lot of little bulblets of FF. acmopetala and pontica and want to put them in a lawn, I wonder is it OK just to sprinkle them and assume they will all come up, or will only those which land the right way up, come through?
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Just back from 2 :) botanical trips to SW Turkey and Greece (Attica and Peloponnesos). This is C. cartwrightianus, a 'new' species for me in the wild, photographed in the Attica region of Greece. As many other crocuses it's quite variable in the wild.
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Franz - they all look like C pallasii to me and if they all came from the same location they are likely to be the same ssp, probably ssp pallasii. I find this to be a very variable taxa from my mostly seed raised plants. The relatively short red style branches have a very distinctive way of curving out from the middle of the flower, not flopping as in the C cartwrightianus that Kees Jan has posted.
Kees Jan - more pics please! It looks like you had good weather although one fellow traveller has arrived home with more than just a good collection of pictures. I hope to see some of Riks pics next week as I visit the Northampton AGS - hopefully his leg is mending well!
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Franz your c. pallasii have narrow petals. In my region, They have quite broad petals. (W.TR) Tony's pages says thiny petals are sign for ssp. turcicus. If you remember from which region they are. I may tell more about from records.
Kees! You can't avoid only with these nice pics..
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Franz, the brighter flowers on photo 3+5 look like a form of asumaniae I have in my garden!
You should wait until the leaves appear: pallasii has 7-17 leaves, asumaniae 5-6!
Kees, wonderful photos from the wild - now we're all waiting for more!!!
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Good to hear Ibrahim's views on Franz C pallasii ... All my experience comes from cultivated plants - the local botanists and those with field experience are the most useful experts! (And Ibrahim has checked his facts more carefully than I did ;))
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What a wonderful place this thread is for learning. Keep on posting you experts!
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Crocus laevigatus, photographed in SE Peloponnesos. In the populations I saw only a small proportion of the plants had feathering on the outside of the petals (see 2nd picture), which surprised me since this is quite often mentioned as a useful difference with boryi. The main flower differences with Crocus boryi are the small size and the star shape (in good weather), quite unlike goblet shaped boryi.
Tony: despite the leg injury my fellow traveller managed to see 8 different crocus species in flower in Attica and the Peloponnesos (and goulimyi in both subsp.)!
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Franz and Kees, thank you for the great pics.
Never stop learning...
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yes very nice. I have just over of £450 saved, in £2 coins, for a Greek or Turkish bulb trip. I'll hopefully have enough for spring but definitely for autumn
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So nice to be at home on a sunny day when the crocus are so happy.
I love the saffrony bits in Crocus tournefortii.
Crocus goulimyi was in flower in the garden in the middle of last month but has only just opened under glass. Mind, the ones in the garden are still producing new flowers, wonderful.
This is a great potful of Crocus laevigatus. I got them from Tony a couple of years ago and don't believe that he would have sent me this many so they must be multiplying rapidly. I will try a few in the garden next year.
Interesting that Kees posted some pictures from the Peloponnes this afternoon and commented on the lack of feathering. Mine are beatifully feathered but it is difficult to photograph when they are fully open. I went to check on ID from Tony's Crocus page and note that he doesn't mention the feathering or use a picture to show it. Could it be a variable feature of the species?
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Hi David,
Yes, it's definitely variability within the species. Perhaps some populations (Crete?) have a much higher percentage of 'feathered' plants than the ones I found in the SE Peloponnese though. I think about 1 in 20 plants was feathered in the populations I found, no evidence of Crocus boryi in these populations though, although they are reported to grow together sometimes.
I'm attaching two pics of Crocus goulimyi. This population in SE Peloponnesos is intermediate between subspecies goulimyi and subspecies leucanthus.
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I love the saffrony bits in Crocus tournefortii.
Looking at the enlarged picture David, I'm almost squirming as I imagine being tickled. :D
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here are what I got at a local garden centre
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Here is goulimyi ssp. leucanthus in SE Pelopononnese
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I was thrilled to find C. mathewii in the wild recently. A rare beauty. Here are pics of the Crocus and its habitat. I'm not sure if this population has been published but I don't dare to mention the location on the internet after hearing what happened to the C. mathewii population at its type locality after it's publication as a new species...........................
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Great pictures Kees Jan.
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I don't dare to mention the location
Quite right, Kees Jan... but how lucky you are to have seen this most beautiful crocus in the wild.
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Great pix Kees Jan - look forward to seeing more, here and in Utrecht tomorrow ;D
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Here is another Crocus from the Peloponnesos, an unusual bi-coloured form of C. goulimyi ssp. goulimyi...
Luc, I hope there will be nice pics tomorrow since I haven't actually seen our presentation yet, Marijn put it together on his computer while I was in Greece!
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sheep at a wonderful C. goulimyi ssp. goulimyi and Cyclamen hederifolium ssp. confusum site... I think this is the only place where we found C. goulimyi in open woodland (under the semi-evergreen Quercus aegilops).
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Ibrahim,
I cannot any longer remember exactly, where I collected the seed of Crocus pallasii. I travelled within the area of West Anatolia, South Anatolia and in near Konya.
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Howdy All,
Just catching up with this thread after a few days..... so many wonderful pics posted. The pallassii are delightful (particularly 3, 4 and 5, regardless of exactly which species they are), the white laevigata are glorious (Thomas, the single seedling from last year returned this year, still alone unfortunately but as long as there is one that is the important thing!! ;D Thanks!), and the varying goulimyi are great to see.
Thanks for posting the pics everyone. They're being greatly appreciated by this croco-phile down here in the southern hemisphere where it is definitely NOT crocus time!! ::) The majority of them have now entered dormancy after the last week or around 30'C (somewhat early for this, but not exactly a lot I can do about it) so I'll be unpotting soon and finding out what I am able to send overseas where promised!! So nice to see Crocus flowers now, when the pots are all looking decidedly empty at this end!! :o I know they'll be back, but it still seems such a long way off. ::)
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Franz I don't know what to say for your c. pallasii sp. If they are from Konya in this region there is olny c. pallasii ssp. dispathaceus registred. Distribution for this species is south of center Anatolia, for c. pallasii ssp. turcicus s. east Tr and for pallasii ssp. pallasii w. coasts of Tr.
Maybe Tony can tell us the main features for these subsp.
I have seen a picture it is very similar to your pallasii from region Kütahya.
This picture is from another web side.
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My strange season continues. the white form of korolkowii is now open and cvijicii has well advanced buds with colour showing. Colchicums trigynum, kessellringii and the white kessellringii have flowers open
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Good Bulb season at all
It is the first time I write on this Forum. Thanks at all the members which send fine pics of their collections or travels. I'm french and live in Burgundy along the River Doubs near Dijon. My soil is sandy. I like Crocuses before all other bulbs but Colchicum, wild daffodils and wild tulips too (and snowdrops). Thanks for your friendly attitude.
Dominique
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welcome to the forums Dominique. How long have you been watching?
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A big welcome from a German croconut, Dominique!!!
We're looking forward to see many beautiful photos from your collection!
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Welcome, Dominique, great to have you join us!
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And Greetings from England too!!
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so here the 'white' Crocus korolkowii flowering twice in a year. Tony any comments on the colour? It looks more apricot to me
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More cream than apricot from where I'm sitting, but still looks very nice. 8)
Welcome Dominique. You must add some pics of plants you grow in Dijon. :)
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Using the RHS colour chart it comes out as yellow white 158
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A warm welcome, Dominique! I'm looking forward to seeing the first photos from you.
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Thanks you Mark, Thomas, Maggi, Tony, Anthony and Franz for your kind answer and welcome. I will send you some pics of my bulbs but they are too much heavy (more than 300ko) to be posted on the forum and I don't know how to make them more little. Now I have Crocus tournefortii, Crocus veneris, Crocus laevigatus (form from Greece) to send you. My next photos will be made more little in ko !
Dominique
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Bon Jour Dominique ,
From me also a warm welcome !
Do you have maybe photoshop ?
With this program is it easy to made the pics smaller .
I know your area ( Franche Comte ) as we are often in France - we live in Germany near the border of France ( near Strasbourg) .
Here a question : I have seen before many years around easter time flowering Crocus in the mountains near Morteau ( direction Swisse) - I'm not a specialist for Crocus ....do you know the ID ?
Salü
Hans
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Thank you Hans
I will try with photoshop. I suppose that the Crocus obove Morteau is Crocus vernus ssp vernus if blue or Crocus vernus ssp albiflorus if white. I am situated at the end of the River Doubs near it marries its water with the River Saône (Verdun / Doubs). If you come in Franche Comté, come at home !
Dominique
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No problem Dominique ,
If you have photoshop is it easy - go to save for the web -there is a possiblity to make it in the size that you like -you can also chose the pixels for the wide and high there ...
Thank you for the informations to this Crocus between Morteau and Pontalier !
I have also seen Crocus above the Gorge de Verdon -do you think it is the same species ?
In this year I found very nice C. versicolor on Mt. Ventoux !
I believe in your area I have seen flowering wild Narcissus near the motoway -but no chance to stop !
Hans
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here are Dominiques photos
1/ Crocus laevigatus (from Greece)
2/ Crocus tournefortii (a late form)
3/ Crocus veneris
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Dominique your photos were the original size set in your camera. I opened them using Photo Shop, cropped them to 700 pixels wide and saved as dom1, dom2, dom3. When you are finished never save the changes. You might need the original photo in the future
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Or if you are going to save them - change the name. You will see some people name pics with names ending srgc - this is why :)
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Nice Crocus. I love the markings and style arrangement on the first one in particular. The delicate colour to the second is attractive too. Great pics Dominique (and thanks for preparing and posting them Mark)
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Hi Mark,
Many thanks for your help ! My pics can be seen on the forum
1/ Crocus laevigatus (from Greece)
2/ Crocus tournefortii (a late form)
3/ Crocus veneris
Thank you all for your advices
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Gee, that's a nice form of laevigatus. Very impressive.
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Dominique, I am sorry not to have replied before, I have been unwell... thankfully Mark has resized your photos now. Very interesting plants, thank you.
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Very sorry to hear that Maggi. Best wishes.
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Thanks, Ashley... I am making progress :-\ I think!
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I am glad to see new croconats on forum.
Dominique It seemms you have lots of experiences to share.
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Hi Paul
I like very much this form of Crocus laevigatus wich is early flowering for the species, fifteen days before an other more classic and Crocus laevigatus Albus and one month before Crocus laevigatus "Fontenayii". I'm glad to read australian news because I collectionne too the genus Acacia and your country is very representative of these trees.
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I am glad to see new croconats on forum.
Dominique It seemms you have lots of experiences to share.
Ibrahim
I love Crocus and bulbs since 30 years ago but seriously 15 and there is a lot of species I have not. What a drama ! by exemple C scharojanii, vallicola, pelistericus, caspius, nevadensis, carpetanus, true olivieri, and so for Colchicum too. Year after year I progress and your country is ideal for observe these loving flowers. Thank you
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here are a couple more from Dominique
C. laevigatus fortunei
C. palassii
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A few crocus for you all - from southern Turkey - taken early November.
Crocus cancellatus ssp damascenus recorded from a locality just west of Gaziantep
Crocus cancellatus ssp cancellatus occurs generally around gaziantep and south to Antakya
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Crocus pallasii ssp turcicus seems to like very dry areas, quite a common plant just west of Gaziantep, but also present in the Kilis area, near to the Syrian border.
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And finally, the fabulous Crocus kotschyanus ssp kotschyanus
This species is quite widespread around Gaziantep, south to Antakya and in the Eastern Taurus, north of Adana. Seems to like ploughed fields!
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Mark, thank you for your continued assistance to Dominique! It would besad for us to miss his pix!
David, I just love to see these wonderful flowers looking so good in their home, happy in the sunshine... they never look so good in Scotland, I'm afraid. The shots here and in the Colchicum pages are really making our mouths water!
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Thanks, Maggi, pleased that you're enjoying the pix. There are some splendiferous sites out there and I really enjoy reliving the experience through posting. I've learnt a lot through this latest trip. This area of Turkey is extremely dry and they had had no rain since last spring until the day of rain during our trip in early November, yet we saw all the species of colchicum and crocus we had expected to see. None of the species had leaves with the flowers. Also, we had cause to expose the corms/bulbs of some species in order to aid/confirm identification and none had roots (all were covered up/replanted, needless to say.....). So, the autumn rains cannot be the trigger to flowering in these cases......... Furthermore, many of the species were thriving in cultivated fields - indeed some of the best sites - some of the bulbs particularly of the colchicums are quite deep and may be below plough depth, but for others ploughing in early autumn soon after harvest only serves to redistribute the bulbs.
Dave
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With Colchicum in your fields you'd need to be very careful about what you were getting when you harvest your crop, wouldn't you? Risky business , that :P
The lack of rain but growth of the flower spikes without roots is an interesting phenomenon of Colchicum, isn't it? Just shows you that they can flower like this in the wild and not just when stuck in a polybag in a garden centre :-\ As you say, no storms to trigger this growth.... be great to find out just WHEN the roots do begin... a next project for you out there, David ??
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Yes, good job all the fields were of wheat/barley - no real danger of a dose of colchicine there!
I was aware of the colchicum's ability to flower without roots - I've bought a few bulbs in my time from nurseries with well advanced flower spikes. But I didn't know the same could be true of crocus. One never stops learning in this game.
It would be fabulous to return to the Eastern Taurus and Gaziantep/Antakya area which is said to be really rich in early spring crocus around late february. By then though most of the autumn species surely will have leaves..... won't they???
Dave
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I may have crossed a few wires, here... :( I somehow thought the fields had colchicum in, not crocus... though, right enough, it would still be risky if there WERE colchicum!
As far as I know, while Crocus will flower "dry" as it were, they do try to put roots out at the same time... if it is too dry and they are out of the ground altogether, then those roots will wither pretty quickly.
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Dave who did you travel with?
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Great pics Dave - if you are planning a spring trip do count me in. I must to go and see crocus in the wild for myself and to go with a field expert would be a huge advantage.
Interesting that crocus kotschyanus thrives(?) in culitvated land. As it often makes many small rice grain cormlets populations of this taxa would survive disturbance better than most crocuses
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Dave,
That second pic of Crocus pallasii ssp turcicus is the most stunning striping. Wow!!
Dominique,
Interesting that that particular one is so early. Always good to extend the season of a species, so definitely worthwhile growing it. To have it a bit distinctive makes it even better!! ;D Here, laevigatus can start flowering from the beginning of March to the beginning of May. Not quite sure why there is so much difference, but some years the clump starts at one time, other years another. Not yet been able to make a distinct link to rain or temperatures.... it just seems to be dependant on how they're feeling that year. ::)
If there are particular Acacia that you are trying to find then drop me an email or PM, and maybe I can find somewhere you can source seed from. I am not heavily into natives, but I do know a few people around who might know of seed sources. Worth thinking about anyway, but I certainly can't guarantee that I can find things. ;)
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What a fascinating thread. I remember way back buying giant colchicum bulbs advertised to flower just sitting dry on a windowsill. I wonder if colchicine would affect us? It is used to stop nondisjunction in somatic cells to induce polyploidy in hybrid plants.
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Anthony,
We buy Colchicums here in bud at the end of the selling season. The same applies to Crocus sativus (see, there IS some crocus link to this!! ;D), which flowers in their sales baskets by the time they should already be in the ground. Same goes for various nerines, particularly bowdenii and rosea. A lot of the more enthusiastic bulbs will flower "on the windowsill" if kept out of the soil for long enough. Having said that, ALL of them prefer to be planted by the time they're flowering, and even the Colchicums which don't get foliage for quite some time after flowering still have their roots out by the time the flowerbuds hit the surface, so the "naked flowering" is by no means good for them either. ::)
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I remember way back buying giant colchicum bulbs advertised to flower just sitting dry on a windowsill. I wonder if colchicine would affect us? It is used to stop nondisjunction in somatic cells to induce polyploidy in hybrid plants.
Anthony, I once made the mistake of asking in a pharmacy (Boots I think) if they could get colchicine for me. I wanted to try using it on lily seed and scales to try to induce polyploidy, as was being tried experimentally by a couple of horticultural breeding institutions at the time.
The pharmacist looked at me like I was planning a mass murder, and asked if I realised that just a small bottle in the water supply could poison a small town.
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Tony maybe a few of us should meet up to go bulb hunting. Which is better for bulbs - spring or autumn?
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Mmm. I'm still thinking about a suitable small town. :-\
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John Betjemen would have said Slough I guess ;D Though it is possibly not a small town any longer. . .
Sue
Apologies to anyone who lives in Slough and loves it dearly
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sorry meant to say that the stripes on the crocus pallasii ssp turcicus were outstanding - get carried away at the thought of Slough!
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Thanks for your comments, one and all. I agree, some forms of pallasii ssp turcicus are quite outstanding, but kotschyanus remains my favourite because of its robust stature and shape to the flower, just perfect.
Mark, as last year I went with Greentours - my life is too hectic (and if truth be told I'm too lazy) to organise botanical trips myself so I let others do the job for me, particularly as this company do an excellent job. I can certainly recommend them.
So, Tony, I would very much welcome your (and any other forumist's) company on such a trip as you suggest. During the tour this time Peter Sheasby, Mike Hopkins and I were talking with Ian Green about an early spring 'croco-hunt'. Ian's gone away to give serious consideration to setting up a trip, second half of February 2009, to S Turkey, possibly taking in the western Taurus and the Eastern Taurus/Gaziantep/Hatay regions. Apparently, this should coincide with the main crocus time there. Sounds interesting to me; will keep you posted if you wish.
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I knew Mike was just back from a trip... just hadn't put two and two together! I hope HE is going to be giving us some pix, too........Mike! Are you reading this??
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Maggi, sorry about your crossed wires - painful I'm sure :D
Just to clarify things: of the Colchicums, persicum, polyphyllum, kotschyii and decaisnei were seen in ploughed fields (as well as elsewhere). Crocus kotschyanus ssp kotschyanus was the only crocus growing in cultivated fields - in this respect your comment Tony about this species' tendency to produce cormlets is interesting.
Paul, ....... I'm not sure we have any idea whether bulbous plants "prefer" to do one thing or the other ;D ;D ;D Perhaps you'd like to enlighten us with "inner knowledge"......... :P
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Or whether ANY plants "prefer" anything... we're in the realms of pathetic fallacy here... but we nearly all use 'em, though, don't we? ::)
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I've never been to Slough (though Chris Chadwell lives or lived there, so don't choose that one Anthony) and can't comment on its merits or otherwise, except that the name itself, is so horrid, especially as it rhymes with sow (as in lady pig,). If it rhymed with stuff maybe it would be better. Or, indeed, with sow as in though.
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Oh yes, they do have preferences, Maggi, they do!
But who will ever hear their voice?
Let me tell you a little story...
Once upon a time there were 3 little crocusses...
Look at them, innocently dancing under the last rays of a glorious autumn sun, with their colourful skirts spreading and glistening around them like jewels in the light...
That's where a young rascal called D.G. T'Kamera got a glimpse at them, by pure chance, as he was roaming about aimlessly...
This very evening, he went reporting his vision to his fellow rascals, in a tavern of Forum-on-the-Net, the legedary city with-a-thousand-windows...
And that's where the worst of them, an envious female named Zephirine, heard about the three jewels...from that very moment, she got only one thought: putting her greedy hands on them!
During a long time, they managed to escape...one thousand times she thought she would reach them, and a thousand times she failed.
They finally found shelter in a forlorn village along the Black Sea, called Outofstock...
Alas, on the following year, just as the first falling leaves reached the soil, here she went, hunting again !
Oh, they resisted bravely, poor souls! They ran so fast, they weeped so long, that they did not have even strength enough to wear their wonderful fall dresses : look at these three dry, meagre little bulblets...nothing was left from their past, extraordinary beauty...
In the suburbs of the city of Moutchodollar, just at the edge of the deep forest called Bulbsforsale, as a pale dawn rose on a dull winter day, they surrendered... The greedy Zephirine grasped them with a grunt of utter satisfaction, and flew with her prey to her secret glass den...
And there....there happened the miracle: moved by their distress, she installed them in three chubby little pots, fed them, gave them a good drink of fresh water...
It was no longer time for the Crocus Magic Danse, of course...but look...like three Sleeping Beauties waking up after a long, long sleep...look ! They wake up!
Do you want me to introduce them?
Here they are : the first one is Goulim, the slender One, in a pure amethyst skirt, then Nivey, with the pure white tunic of True Innocence and his wonderful necklace of the finest coral, and Mathew, the shyest of the three, bearing on his breast the most extraordinary blue sapphire you could dream of...
But hush, hush, my friends! Don't you tell my story around : Their brothers are still safe, as long as you keep my secret...who knows what other envious Beauty-Hunters might do if they knew....you promise me?
Zéphirine
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So we have just over a year for the first members get together to be organised. Sounds like a great idea.
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I give in!!
A wonderful wee tale, Zephirine :) :) :)
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a wondrous tale indeed, Zeph... we will all keep your secret![attach=1]
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Sorry Lesley, should have put the reference in John Betjeman was a 20th century poet (his poetry is the equivalent of a Lowry painting, I sometimes think, and you either like the style or don't) and he writes pasionately against modernisation and one of his poems (written in the late 30s) began something like
Come, friendly bombs, and fall on Slough
It isn't fit for humans now
There isn't grass to graze a cow.
Swarm over, death!
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out of season Crocus continue in the garden. Very well camoflaged against the grit is alatavicus. The Christmas flowering Galanthus 'Castlegar' is out now also
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Betjeman was never among my own favourite poets I admit, though I do like that small effort.
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The Christmas flowering Galanthus 'Castlegar' is out now also
With climate change, it looks like all the snowdrops are going to end up Christmas-flowering here!
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I need 'professional help' ;). Can anyone identify this Crocus for me please? It's photographed NE of Dalaman in light woodland amongst C. cancellatus ssp. mazziaricus. Possibly a pallasii form??
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I don't think this is pallasii, the style of which should be equal to or less than half the perianth length. The long style perhaps suggests mathewi which could be in this area...... or it could be a hybrid...
No doubt Tony will help out.....
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It certainly did not look like the mathewii that I found in the wild in SW Turkey, certainly no violet throat, also a very different habitat (relatively low altitude, Colchicum variegatum was present at this site as well, in apparently dryer conditions). Apart from the style it looke very similar to the Cr. cancellatus ssp. mazziaricus amongst which it was found. I found just 1 specimen of this saffron crocus in among many cancellatus mazziaricus. I don't know if saffron crocusses hybridise with cancellatus...
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But mathewi doesn't always have a violet throat - see the discussion in a crocus thread this time last year. But I take your point about the low altitude, information about which you didn't give in your original post. Also, some of the mathewi I saw last year were in extremely dry areas.
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It looks like a C cancellatus from the flower shape. I have some pale C mathewii without the violet throat and this one looks different. I don't like naming crocus from the flower alone (although I go along with Dave re: C pallasii - the style of C pallasii is distinctive, short and often curved.) The corm tunic would tell us if it is cancellatus or saffron group but this info is harder to obtain in the wild!
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Interesting to hear that pallasii is unlikely. I don't think there are many other candidates since there were only three style branches, and the colour of the style seems to be very typical of the saffron crocus group and certainly very distinct from the cancellatus ssp. mazziaricus at this location. Could it possibly be cancellatus ssp. mazziaricus x pallasii ssp. pallasii? Is the multi-branched style a stable feature in cancellatus?
I'm attaching pictures of cancellatus ssp. mazziaricus mazziaricus, same site
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I'm still in Slough. You may have a point? The people of Buckinghamshire quite obviously didn't like Slough as they had it moved to Berkshire! ::) Can't get my head round that. Mind you, there is a sign on the road north 2 miles out of Dunblane saying 'Welcome to Perthshire'. When they pass that sign they have been driving through Perthshire for 3 miles as it starts a mile the other side of Dunblane!
Nice crocus btw :D
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Tony, Dave,
I modified my earlier posting of the 'saffron' crocus and now have uploaded a picture with the flower throat and anthers visible. I hope this makes identification possible.
I don't believe it's mathewii because the tepals are pale violet rather than white, the throat isn't coloured and the low altitude/ unlikely habitat. Possibly the location isn't quite in the mathewii area either: it's somewhere between Dalaman – Gölhisar.
Here is a picture of the habitat of both crocusses, not as open as usual for most of the species, but light woodland...
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Thank you all have help me to put pics on the forum. I can now made it myself !!! enormous progress for me !!!
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other Crocuses of late season
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Always some errors !!! 2 series of same pics ! Sorry
No problems, Do, you are doing fine! Maggi
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Thaks to everyone for nice postigs.
Kees jan! I will say c. asumaniae for your first crocus. The style and color is same which I post before from ngbb garden. This species present in Antalya with large population.
Dave! I enjoyed so much with your pleasant pics and journey. I can't go through without ptresent my gratitudes for your helpfull informations and experiences about. I wish also to visit same area in future if I can have time.
Thomas! As you see here Dave's and Kees's history Without any commets.
If I am not wrong. Marco's family was lookig a house to buy in Antalya for living there, like many German tourists do.
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well done Dominique! it's easy to remove the errors. Click on modify on the right side of your post and remove what you dont need
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Kees Jan
Ibrahims' local knowledge matches my best offer! Below is a pic of C asumainiae in cultivation. It is the best match for the plant that you have found. Most of my C asumaniae have style divided at this level and into 3 distinct branches. C cancellatus in all its forms has a style with mutiple divisions at each tip. However there is a school of thought which puts C asumaniae and C mathewii as synonymous (the purple throat being a variable feature of the plant we call C mathewii). I would very much doubt possibility of pallasii x cancellatus - they are too distantly related.
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Hi Ibrahim, Tony,
Thanks for identifying the Crocus as asumaniae!
The Flora of Turkey says asumaniae is only known from the Akseki area in Antalya province, but I took my pictures between Fethiye and Golhisar, which is much further west in the eastern part of Mugla province. Perhaps new stations outside the Akseki area have been found since the publication of the Flora of Turkey, if not, this seems to be a new record, disjunct from the Akseki populations.
Any additional information on the distribution of C. asumaniae outside the Akseki area would be much appreciated.
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It's one day too late,normally, but the flowers opened yesterday November 30th...I assume it's still valid then?
Last but not least of my lately bought crocusses, here is C. longiflorus...
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Très belle photo d'un de mes crocus préférés Zéphirine. Il n'est pas identique au mien. Merci
Very nice pic of one of my most liked crocus Zéphirine. Not the same than mine
Do
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Thank you Dominique! It sounds strange to meet on such a distant place, while we actually live only 200km apart, lol!
My Crocus longiflorus come from Paul Christian's. Would you have a picture of yours, for comparison purposes, please?
Greetings from Northern Isere...
Zephirine
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here is one of mine
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They are variable. One of mine this year opened to reveal lovely dark marked veins. I forgot to take a photo. More are up now so if I remember I'll bring the pot indoors to make the flowers open
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Thank you Dominique! It sounds strange to meet on such a distant place, while we actually live only 200km apart, lol!
My Crocus longiflorus come from Paul Christian's. Would you have a picture of yours, for comparison purposes, please?
Greetings from Northern Isere...
Zephirine
Bonsoir Zephirine
Here is a pic of mine which comes from holland