Scottish Rock Garden Club Forum
General Subjects => General Forum => Topic started by: angie on April 18, 2012, 02:34:01 PM
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Just wandering can I grow dwarf Daphnes in my greenhouse. I have a bed in my greenhouse that has succulents in it and I want to do away with these. Just thought these small daphnes would be nice in there.
Some advice would be welcomed .
Angie :)
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A greenhouse bed is probably the ideal place to grow dwarf daphnes. They like glass cover to keep the rain off, will appreciate the free root run of a bed rather than being in pots, and a glasshouse is the best place to enjoy their scent. I used to love visiting Joe Elliott's nursery near here when his stock plants of Daphne petraea were in flower. The smell in his daphne glasshouse was amazing.
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My Daphnes have all suffered this year. Their flowers are bleaching. Is the sun doing it?, the warmth or rain?
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Angie - I agree with Martin. I have a clone of D. x hendersonii in a large pot in my plunge. It has merrily rooted through the base into the plunge and is now immovably established. It thrives! I have taken cuttings which do OK in a pot inside but do not do so well outside, tried raised bed and troughs with poor results. I would plant yours in the bed and enjoy them there!
Good luck!
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Well worth buying is Robin White's book "Daphnes: A practical Guide for Gardeners" Published by Timber Press 2006. It has a good section on cultivation under cover. Even more so worth while given the price of Daphnes so it's costly to make mistakes.
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I bought this Daphne today as D. sericea.
From the pictures I've seen on the internet D. sericea should be smaller and be more of a cushion type plant. Mine is about 60 cm tall, with variegated leaves. Any idea what it might be? If it is D. sericea, how hardy is it considering it is of Mediterranean origin?
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Some information from Robin White's book Razvan:-
"Turkish plants have a sturdy upright habit which produces a plant 1.2-1.5M in hight, somewhat less in width, while the Cretan forms are bushier and more compact, reaching 1-1.2M in height and width"
"Areas which experience long, dry summers without too cold a winter would find this a useful, drought-tolerant, evergreen shrub."
"The hardiness of plants is almost certain to vary according to their origins. I suspect that the less hardy forms will not survive long periods below -10C, while plants from an area such as the Omalos Plateau on Crete may well tolerate temperatures down to -17C "
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I have the bed ready for planting tomorrow. Got out all the succulents and Agave's out. Had my first disaster. I had the tray of Daphne's balanced on the edge of the bench and I knocked the whole lot down, that's three Daphne's that I will have to wait till they flower to put the labels next to them. God I am hopeless.
David that book seems familiar to me. Not sure if I have just heard about it or is in our club library. Guess who has the library books ::) ;D
Angie :)
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Martin - that reference to Joe Elliott brings back precisely the same memory - I even have an old photograph of Daphne petraea 'Grandiflora' in that greenhouse! Outside was a shallow raised bed with Daphne cneorum. I agree they are likely to make wonderful, and probably often much more free-flowering plants under glass (or in a polytunnel which is where Robin White grows many). But I am having quite good success with several forms of x hendersonii outside on our sand bed, and some do really well in tufa.
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Thank you David. Such a promt answer. I guess I will come back when the flowers open, see if they match the sericea type.
I ask about hardiness because apparently this plant was imported from Hungary, but it withstood the -25C we had in January, just in that pot (if I can trust the seller) with no protection.
Whatever species it is, I am glad I found it. Daphnes are very seldom seen in garden centers here.
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If I could travel back in time a visit to Joe Elliott's nursery would be high on my wish list, together with seeing Huddersfield Town win The Cup 8)
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Tim, yes I certainly didn't mean to suggest that the small daphnes can't be grown outside. Robin grows them well outdoors as well as under cover. The three things I remember most about Joe Elliott's nursery are the Daphne petraea in the glasshouse, the Primula allionii in another, and the frames full of Gentiana verna.
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Well worth buying is Robin White's book "Daphnes: A practical Guide for Gardeners" Published by Timber Press 2006. It has a good section on cultivation under cover. Even more so worth while given the price of Daphnes so it's costly to make mistakes.
Superb book - the AGS were selling it very cheaply at the Ponteland show last year so I snapped one up.
You are showing excellent taste in plants Angie!
Happy to say even here in the cold damp North West virtually every Daphne we have tried (and that is a lot - we both love Daphnes :) ) does well for us out in the garden - on a west facing slope on extremely well drained soil on limestone. I have my few precious plants of petraea and arbuscula under protection but x hendersonii is perfectly happy on a raised bed outside and flowers well. Cneorum 'Velky Kosir' is really well flowered this year after the winter of 2010/2011 killed the Dierama which was shading it. In fact I had real trouble finding non-flowering shoots to send to a forumist who wanted grafting material.
I really regret never being able to visit either Joe Elliot's nursery, or Robin White's.
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I miss Robin's nursery, Darren. I used to love calling in there and always coming away with a boot full of lovely things even when I meant to buy very little. It was soooooo easy to just pick up rare dwarf daphnes and plop them in the basket. So tempting. Wish there was another nursery within reasonable driving distance with the sort of range of delicious daphnes that Robin sold.
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If I could travel back in time a visit to Joe Elliott's nursery would be high on my wish list, together with seeing Huddersfield Town win The Cup 8)
The pre-confrerence tour in 1981 went to Broadwell Alpines, a most magical place. Must dig out the ancient photos and have another look.
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Daren I blame all you lot on this forum for my taste in plants. My plant collection has grown so much since I came to the forum. There are so many plants that I had never see before. When someone shows a lovely picture. I just want to see if I can get it and grow it.
When I was at Ian Christies nursery he has a lovely dwarf yellow daphne growing. It was just covered in yellow flowers, such a beautiful sight.
I have grown a couple of dwarf Daphne's in a plunge bed outside but I felt that I never got the good of them. Just thought it would be lovely sitting in a cosy place on a rainy or windy day and being able to smell those Daphne's. Lets just hope that I manage to grow them.
Pity I didn't have limestone. I just pinched some granite stones of my wall today .
Angie :)
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Razvan, I don't think, that your plant is the true Daphne sericea. Attached is a picture of a plant I
obtained as D.sericea and I also think, that this also true to name. The ugly low temperatures last
winter down to - 20° damaged it and I dug it out and threw it away.There is still a plant of another
clone in my collection and this one looks better. It is hard to say, which plant you have bought,
D.x burkwoodii 'Carol Mackie' has this upright habit and is also quite hardy, the best is to wait for the
flowers.
Angie, another suggestion to grow the dwarf species like Daphne petraea and its beautiful forms,
D.jaminea, D.modesta and similar other ones is the use of tufa blocks. Nurseryman Gerd Stopp is very
succesfull with this method, he told me some weeks ago, that even 'difficult' species grow much better
this way, than their cousins planted in pots.
Sorry, that I have no actual picture of his wall, the attached photo was made about 5 years ago.
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Angie, another suggestion to grow the dwarf species like Daphne petraea and its beautiful forms,
D.jaminea, D.modesta and similar other ones is the use of tufa blocks. Nurseryman Gerd Stopp is very
succesfull with this method, he told me some weeks ago, that even 'difficult' species grow much better
this way, than their cousins planted in pots.
Sorry, that I have no actual picture of his wall, the attached photo was made about 5 years ago.
Wow that is some picture 8). I have never seen a greenhouse that the roof opens up like that. I wish I could see it close up.
I would love to grow my Dahpne in Tufa or something similar but its impossible to obtain.
Thanks for showing me.
Angie :)
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A second flush of flowers on my Daphne x susannae 'Cheriton'. Liking the conditions on my little rockery and now around an 18" spread. I bought it about 3 years ago as a rooted cutting from Robin White at an Exeter AGS Show. How tall and what sort of spread should it be eventually please?
Some of you may have followed my tales of my recalcitrant flowering Daphne bholua 'Jacqueline Postill' Here she is today still growing rapidly together with her in January 2009 by way of comparison. I managed four very tiny flowers earlier this year and look forward to many more next year.
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Anyone clarify for me eventual size (height and spread) for Daphne x susannae 'Cheriton' ?
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David,Robin white says about 30-45 in height and 60-90cm width
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Cheers Michael, I think I've put mine in the wrong spot.
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David, it will take it a while to get to those dementions but don't move it, they Don't like moved. You can prune it lightly after flowering to keep it in check.
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It has taken about 20 months but at last I'm (fairly) sure a cutting has rooted of D. petraea 'Persabee.' It was one of about 30 which had been on the tunnel house potted plant and the new growth had etoliated so I trimmed them all off and made cuttings of them. Gradually they all died except this one. It is surrounded by Anagallis tenella so I'm not sure about moving it yet, maybe in another year or two. ??? There are already some flowers out on the outside trough plant.
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Some of you may have followed my tales of my recalcitrant flowering Daphne bholua 'Jacqueline Postill' Here she is today still growing rapidly together with her in January 2009 by way of comparison. I managed four very tiny flowers earlier this year and look forward to many more next year.
Well, I did speak quite harshly to her, in fact I told her if she didn't perform in 2013 she was coming out. Here she is today and I've told her she's done well and can stay!
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Excellent David, ours too is covered in bud again. Very satisfying that yours has settled in.
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I'm well chuffed Brian, it's taken a long time to settle. By the way, it looks from my pictures as if it was a nice day. It wasn't! It poured down most of the morning with heavy showers in the afternoon and I rushed out to take a picture between showers and the sun greeted me for all of a minute and a half.
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That doesn't surprise me, I'm waiting for a let up in the rain to nip up the post office.
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Jacqueline is filling the whole of my back garden with her scent, absolutely beautiful and well worth waiting for. Even the bumblebees, that at this time of year think my Mahonia is the best thing since sliced bread, are impressed. A question though- there are some fairly leggy top growths on her, about 12-14 inches in length with no leaves other than a leafy clump at the very top, would I get away with snipping these off or should I leave well alone?
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David, Snip them in half when you see new growth starting.
Cheers
Michael.
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I must look for a new D. bholua. Mine died in December 2010 :'(
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Many thanks for that Michael, I'm so glad I persevered with her.
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What a lovely day it's been here. The absence of wind has meant that we've been enjoying the glorious scent of Daphne bholua 'Jacqueline Postill'. This plant is now just over 2 metres high and has been flowering since January - apart from the very snowy winter in 2011 when it lost all its buds, this plant just seems to get better and better with age. Just magic - been meaning to post pics for some while but haven't had the chance. Also flowering is Daphne blagyana - pity a bout the lack of scent with this.....
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For the sake of my blood pressure, David, I'll ignore your assertion of the lovely day you've enjoyed.....
I'm interested in your comment that Daphne blagayana has no scent ???
Ours does - not out yet, of course........
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Hi David,
Great Daphne, you should try the compact form of D. blagyana, it has a really strong scent and the flowers are fuller. Easier to root from cuttings as well.
Susan
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Hi David,
Great Daphne, you should try the compact form of D. blagyana, it has a really strong scent and the flowers are fuller. Easier to root from cuttings as well.
Susan
Aha! There's the clue! Thanks, Susan.
Mind you, I'd like ours to be more compact.
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There are maybe a few clones going around. The long straggly one with little scent has been about for many years . The other we have came from M&H Taylor as Brenda Anderson form much more compact. Maybe you have a third. Must remember and take cuttings or look for a rooted bit for my new rockery.
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I thought I had
the a compact form. I think I got this plant from MacPlants not long after I moved here in the mid 90s. The plant is only about 75 cm across. But I've never noticed any scent, though I didn't stick my nose close to the flowers.
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That is much more compact than ours! Ours is a straggler, but the scent is quite nice when you get your nose to it. Doesn't waft the fragrance like some, but it's still nice.
Cannot remember where ours came from :-\
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I've been meaning to dig out my straggly form of D. blageana for a while. I'm not sure if it is scented. I struggle to get down that far and the shoots that are left are under a thorny chaenomeles which should be pruned but I forget to do it after flowering and can't bring myself to do it when I might cut off floer buds. The deer eat most of the leaves and the ends of the shoots with the flower buds so it is taking up space which could be better filled. I keep meaning to look for a compact form.
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Buds on Daphne bholua 'Jacqueline Postill' just beginning to break and with them the scent is beginning to pervade the garden. Another few days and it really will be worth going out even on the worst of days.
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I've been trawling through the "Troughs" and the "CreviceGardening-in defence of Rock" threads just listing plants that interested me that I might be able to get for my new rock bed when it's finished. One that I fell in love with, from Anne Speigle's garden, was Daphne velenovskyi 'Balkan Rose'. I checked it out in The Plantfinder but it is isn't listed and I also Googled it but apart from a trio of USA based nurseries couldn't find any UK suppliers. Anybody know if it is available here please?
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Buds on Daphne bholua 'Jacqueline Postill' just beginning to break and with them the scent is beginning to pervade the garden. Another few days and it really will be worth going out even on the worst of days.
Good that it is now really performing well for you David after the shakey start :)
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I've been trawling through the "Troughs" and the "CreviceGardening-in defence of Rock" threads just listing plants that interested me that I might be able to get for my new rock bed when it's finished. One that I fell in love with, from Anne Speigle's garden, was Daphne velenovskyi 'Balkan Rose'. I checked it out in The Plantfinder but it is isn't listed and I also Googled it but apart from a trio of USA based nurseries couldn't find any UK suppliers. Anybody know if it is available here please?
This is like the "Nobody Knows" section on QI (quirky quiz game on the tele, for those who don't know)
Been in touch with Aberconwy but they don't grow it. Tim suggested I try Keith Wiley. I did, he doesn't grow it but would like me to let him know who does because he would like to grow it. Tim also suggested I try Robin White but I don't know how to contact him now.
Any other suggestions?
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Cyril or Ian Christie might know, David -
but I'd also contact Herman Laporte of http://www.daphnes.be/ (http://www.daphnes.be/) - he was at the Czech Conference in 2013 and seemed to have a huge range of Daphnes ......... his new catalogue will be available in November - contact email is hela@telenet.be
You can at least do a little drooling at his previous catalogue! http://www.daphnes.be/daphnes.pdf (http://www.daphnes.be/daphnes.pdf)
Also : In the next IRG - online tomorrow - ZZ tells us about another charming Daphne - an arbuscula cultivar called 'Star of Zizkov'
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Hello Dave and Maggie, I am sad to say that I lost the Daphne Balkan Rose maybe I could tempt you with something else, cheers Ian the Christie kind
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A few more, Ian
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Ian, consider me tempted ;D
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Cyril or Ian Christie might know, David -
but I'd also contact Herman Laporte of http://www.daphnes.be/ (http://www.daphnes.be/) - he was at the Czech Conference in 2013 and seemed to have a huge range of Daphnes ......... his new catalogue will be available in November - contact email is hela@telenet.be
You can at least do a little drooling at his previous catalogue! http://www.daphnes.be/daphnes.pdf (http://www.daphnes.be/daphnes.pdf)
Also : In the next IRG - online tomorrow - ZZ tells us about another charming Daphne - an arbuscula cultivar called 'Star of Zizkov'
Cheers for that Maggi, I'll PM Cyril and I'll keep an eye Herman's Web Site
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David, I just happened to notice this thread. Unfortunately I do not grow this clone of D. velenovskyi (Daphne velenovskyi 'Balkan Rose') but I am aware of it and it is high on my wish list. I doubt whether it is in cultivation in the UK, although Ian C did suggest he once grew it but has now lost it. Perhaps the best option is to get in touch with Anne Speigle.
Hello Dave and Maggie, I am sad to say that I lost the Daphne Balkan Rose maybe I could tempt you with something else, cheers Ian the Christie kind
Ian, do you remember the source of your plant?
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I wonder if Wrightman's stock it? www.wrightmanalpines.com (http://www.wrightmanalpines.com) & Do they ship ?
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Maggi/Cyril,
In the Crevice thread, in reply 903 of 24 August, Anne refers to her plant originally coming from Harvey Wrightman. I've looked at the last on-line catalogue and it isn't listed. I've PM'd Anne asking if she has any more information. Will report back here.
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This is my plant of D. velenoyskyi, raised from seed and grafted on D.mezereum.
As you can see this plant is far away from being an eyecatcher.
ZZ told me that these plants grow in higher elevations on Mt. Vichren in Bulgaria
often in short grass and he recommended me to grow it in a more shaded place.
So it was clear, that my hot garden was not the ideal place for this plant.
ZZ and Josef Halda described this plant for the first time 1982 in their article Vichren daphnes
in the AGS Bulletin Vol. 50 No. 4. Page 267.
The cultivar Balkan Rose is unknown to me, but I am sure, that these plants are real gems
for cooler gardens.
z
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Many thanks for that Rudi.
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This is my plant of D. velenoyskyi, raised from seed and grafted on D.mezereum.
As you can see this plant is far away from being an eyecatcher.
ZZ told me that these plants grow in higher elevations on Mt. Vichren in Bulgaria
often in short grass and he recommended me to grow it in a more shaded place.
So it was clear, that my hot garden was not the ideal place for this plant.
ZZ and Josef Halda described this plant for the first time 1982 in their article Vichren daphnes
in the AGS Bulletin Vol. 50 No. 4. Page 267.
The cultivar Balkan Rose is unknown to me, but I am sure, that these plants are real gems
for cooler gardens.
z
Here is an extract of the description of Daphne velenoyskyi by JJH an d ZZ from that AGS bulletin in 182. We learn there that Halda first described this species, Daphne velenoyskyi Halda, in the journal Preslia 53, 4 1981.
[attachimg=1]
[attachimg=2]
Jarmila Haldova's drawings of the Vichren Daphnes
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Hi I have just recieved a daphne Pontica, can anyone tell me what site and position it likes please.
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I believe D. pontica is a plant of open woodland in its native habitat- growing in light shade, but I think in the UK it could take a sunnier position.
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Cheers Maggi thanks for that, I have just the spot in mind for it.
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Re Daphne velonovskyi 'Balkan Rose'
I have had the following from Herman Laporte;-
"I do not grow this clone. It is also on my wish list.
I think it is only available in Canada and the USA. I tried to order it there, but they do not ship to Europe."
Awaiting a reply from Harvey Wrightman.
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First buds opened today on 'Jacqueline Postill'
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Maggi, David, Cyril et al: I spoke with Harvey Wrightman yesterday and told him many people were interested in growing Daphne velenovskyi 'Balkan Rose'. He does have it but he has just moved and is building a new nursery. You might have to wait a bit to let him catch up on his propagating but it will become available to you in the next year or so. I just checked mine yesterday during the usual garden tour and it had small flowers still. Harvey says he has had the same experience with it blooming on and off even during the cold. The ground has hardened with all the frost and it's amazing to see flowers. Didn't have the camera with me because I wasn't expecting to see anything worth photographing - I just usually check for deer damage, they seem to regard daphnes as caviar.
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Good to hear there is hope for getting the plant from Wrightman's in time . For some updates about their move, see here http://www.srgc.net/forum/index.php?topic=12091.msg319722#msg319722 (http://www.srgc.net/forum/index.php?topic=12091.msg319722#msg319722)
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Many thanks for that Anne, I'll look forward to it.
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Maggi, David, Cyril et al: I spoke with Harvey Wrightman yesterday and told him many people were interested in growing Daphne velenovskyi 'Balkan Rose'. He does have it but he has just moved and is building a new nursery. You might have to wait a bit to let him catch up on his propagating but it will become available to you in the next year or so. I just checked mine yesterday during the usual garden tour and it had small flowers still. Harvey says he has had the same experience with it blooming on and off even during the cold. The ground has hardened with all the frost and it's amazing to see flowers. Didn't have the camera with me because I wasn't expecting to see anything worth photographing - I just usually check for deer damage, they seem to regard daphnes as caviar.
Anne, thank you for this update. Do you have any information on this plant? I presume it originally came from Bulgaria or Macedonia, so it is surprising it appears not to be in cultivation in Europe. Another problem will be shipping as Herman said Harvey Wrightman does not ship to Europe.
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Daphne bholua 'Jacqueline Postill' picured today in a very wet garden. I noticed her first flowers this year on 30 November and if she is true to her normal form there will still be some, as well as some scent in early April.
Readers of this thread will know that he I bought her as a very small plant in 2008 and she took her time before she first flowered. Someone in the household, and it's not me, thinks she has got pretty shabby now and needs a good haircut and intends to do it when she has finished flowering! So this could be her last flowering year...........? I've also pictured her as she was in 2012 so she's done a bit of growing since then.
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Winter is just around the corner will probably prune some bits as snow and ice soon, or is it Banana belt with you? cheers Ian the Christie kind
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Could anyone help with with an ID please (another lost label!)
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Hard to tell with Daphne's but judging by the habit of growth and the foliage I would hazard a guess that it is Spring sonnet. Does that ring a bell with you. ?
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It doesn't ring any bells Michael. I have had the plant for a couple of years and I haven't a clue where I bought it from, just a possibility though that I got it from the South West AGS Show. If so then I might have bought it from Robin White.
Since your post I've looked it up and from what I've seen the leaves on mine are a dead ringer for 'Spring Sonnet'. Provided I don't kill it in the meantime I'll tip you off when I have a flower on it. Many thanks.
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Hi Michael, hope you see this and remember the topic. Just noticed today that there are a smattering of flowers on the plant so will try to get a picture of them, although it will be Monday before I get a chance.
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Yep. I am watching. :) :) :)
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Michael, is this any good?
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Yes David, I am still sticking with Spring Sonnet
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OK Michael, that's good enough for me, many thanks.
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:) :) :)