Scottish Rock Garden Club Forum
Bulbs => Galanthus => Topic started by: johnw on March 31, 2012, 05:37:03 PM
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I just noticed that the cross of Trym (not) x elwesii Rosemary Burnham has taken very well. In fact I have never had such a big seed pod over all the years. This cross was done repeatedly as 99% of all crosses fail for me in the greenhouse. It appears the reverse has taken as well. Also Green Brush x elwesii Rosemary Burnham has taken outdoors, adn strongly too (must have been the 2 hot days that did it).
I am still waiting for nivalis Tatiana to flower in the greenhouse. It's about a week away I'd say and this is a month or more after Baxendale's Late. (I wonder just how late it will be when planted outdoors.) I have pollen of RB stored for the occasion.
johnw - +4c and sunny, good to have to cool temps to hold things back.
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Very exciting John, you should get some lovely snowdrops like Hagen's ;D ;D
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Very exciting John, you should get some lovely snowdrops like Hagen's ;D ;D
That's a very tall order Brian and I'm only 5' 8.5", so highly doubtful. :)
Hagen has very big shoes.
johnw
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Well done John.
I have noticed less seed pods here this year than usual. But the ones on Trimmer are massive!
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John, my Tatiana is in full flower right now.
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John, my Tatiana is in full flower right now.
Steve - Thanks for the report. Yesterday we were just commenting on how incredibly late it is here. Still a week or off and it has been in the greenhouse the entire winter.
johnw
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I also have my late double and an un-named virescent in flower but they are the last until September.
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Hello John,
An interesting cross of your Trym (not) x elwesii Rosemary Burnham, as well as your 'Green Brush' cross with 'Rosemary Burnham'. I am curious if you were able to get germination and viable seedlings from either or both?
Thanks, Rick
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Rick - The germination and vigour of the seedlings - at least in my care - is remarkable. These parents are amongst my best seeders both outdoors & under glass. I don't have many Galanthus that set seed and why this should be is puzzling especially outdoors.
johnw
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Excellent. I will be making efforts this winter/spring with hybridizing when anything interesting blooms. I have saved pollen from this winter from 'Primrose Warburg' and hope to use it. I froze it in an aluminum packet, and hope it remains viable.
John, thanks for your update. Rick
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Rick - I wonder if 'Wendy's Gold' might not be a better parent for yellow. I suppose it's time to ask here if 'Primrose Warburg' has produced any significant yellows as a parent. I know Anne has had some lovely yellows come out of her 'Wendy's Gold' crosses.
johnw
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Thanks for the follow-up note John. I have a few different yellows I will be attempting to cross including 'Wendy's Gold', so I would also love to get a sense of which are particularly good to work with and which are on the stingy side. ;) Rick
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The first seeds of the season have sprouted, elwesii 'Rosemary Burnham'.
johnw - +8c and awaiting a nor'easter with upwards of 50mm of rain & wind. We'll pass that right along to the Hebrides. ;)
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Hello John and all,
That nor'easter glanced by here and we got a couple of inches of snow during the night and thankfully it did not stick to the roads. Hope you fare as well. Great news on the new G. 'Rosemary Burnham' seedlings...that is terrific. I do not grow that one yet, but noticed in a photo or two the very wide leaves...fun to see. Good luck growing them on. Rick
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Rick - You must be a bit inland from the east coast as we missed the snow and wind. New Brunswick, about 100km due north of here got walloped with both and passed on to the Hebrides.
Went to -2c last night and barely holding 0c presently.
johnw
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Looks like it has/will blow itself out before it gets here. Our forecast is quite pleasant (for the Hebrides) and today has been gloriously sunny.
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Rick - You must be a bit inland from the east coast as we missed the snow and wind. New Brunswick, about 100km due north of here got walloped with both and passed on to the Hebrides.
Went to -2c last night and barely holding 0c presently.
johnw
I am inland by only about 5 miles and located SE of Boston, half way between Boston and Cape Cod. We are zone 6b here but winters are long and with a fair amount of snow cover beginning in early January. Not optimal for early bloomers, but I am going to go after very early ones for some autumn fun. Here is a shot of a G-r-o that bloomed last month and an early un-named elwesii that just finished up. Rick
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Looks like it has/will blow itself out before it gets here. Our forecast is quite pleasant (for the Hebrides) and today has been gloriously sunny.
Pleased to hear that Matt.
Rick - nice snowdrops. G. reginae-olgae here was up an inch or so last week, I don't know if it will carry on to flowering once it warms up again. Our problem seeds to be the dryish summers here make for very late starts on the autumn bloomers. The same problem with Cyclamen hederifolium, if we don't start watering in late August they simply start flowering too late in the year.
johnw
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Our problem seeds to be the dryish summers here make for very late starts on the autumn bloomers. The same problem with Cyclamen hederifolium, if we don't start watering in late August they simply start flowering too late in the year.
I think this applies to Finland, too. Thank you. :)
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if we don't start watering in late August they simply start flowering too late in the year.
I live in a particularly dry part of England but have no problems with cyclamen hederifolium which generally manage a few flowers in August, lots in September/October and a few stragglers on into November.
Here is the rainfall record from the nearby Cambridge Botanic Garden http://www.viridis.net/cubg/rain.html (http://www.viridis.net/cubg/rain.html) ; I'd be surprised if it isn't less than you get in Halifax. My impression of Canada is that you have a very rapid transition from hot Summer to cold Winter and back from Winter to Summer making for short Autumns and Springs. So by watering in August you are compensating for the fact that temperatures are still too high so as to achieve flowering as soon as temperatures drop low enough.
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I'd be surprised if it isn't less than you get in Halifax. My impression of Canada is that you have a very rapid transition from hot Summer to cold Winter and back from Winter to Summer making for short Autumns and Springs. So by watering in August you are compensating for the fact that temperatures are still too high so as to achieve flowering as soon as temperatures drop low enough.
Alan - Indeed we get between 50-60" of rain a year right here in my part of the city. The rain is "spread evenly" throughout the months according to the books; in fact we get long stretches of dry summer weather and the average is made up in a couple of heavy rains which rarely penetrate, all exascerbated by thin mineral soil.
This is a big country - a 9.5hour flight from St. John's to Victoria - and it hard to generalize but while much of the country often appears to go from winter straight into summer the coasts do not. Our springs are the slowest imagineable with daff foliage often in good shape into July thanks to the Labrador Current, autumns linger on into November and sometimes December thanks to the Gulf Stream. It could very well be our slow downward transition to autumn delays hederifolium flowering but I doubt it as the hotter Annapolis Valley of NS has them flowering 6 weeeks ahead of here on the coast. More retentive soil perhaps?
I wonder how the Boston area fares with hederifolium and the flowering dates there? They get far hotter than even interior NS (especially at night) and stay hotter longer.
johnw - +5c & sunny
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Visiting Anglesey Abbey today we saw G. 'Three Ships' in flower and a few Cyclamen hederifolium still producing flowers, although the vast majority have finished. Unfortunately I didn't manage to get a decent picture of either; snowdrop flowers over-exposed because everything surrounding them is darker - how do you cope with that?
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Alan - I just had this from Carol Dancer out in BC.
"Just read the galanthus forum on the S.R.G.C. on hybridizing and on to when things bloom. I can't agree with you about the lack of rain being a contributing factor. We have next to no rain from May through to mid-October and I mean no rain. Even now with the autumn rains having begun the soil still isn't wet if one digs down about five or six inches yet cyclamen came into bloom in August and G. reginae-olgae was in bloom when I got back from N.S., mid October. "
Which take us back to square one. Do you reckon snowdrops, cyclamen and nerines have a set dormancy period that must be fulfilled before movement begins. I ask as we too were absolutely bone dry the summer long - down 2.5ft at least - and no moisture reached root zones until October after many torrential rains and still reginae-olgae 'Cambridge' is but 1.5" out of the ground and the earliest it has ever flowered was the 10th of November, followed by 23 November, the 17th of December and the 9th of January!
Thinking back I collected G. seed this year later than ever before, mid June, and the leaves lasted about a week to 10 days past that. Cambridge in the ghouse is just as far off flowering as are those outdoors. Interestingly hederifoliums in pots flower in August and are always itching to get going. Thoughts?
Having a real winter that causes plants to shut down completely does make a huge difference and certainly compresses the main Galanthus flowering season in these parts. Coul it be that the cold causes hederifolium root damage that must be "fixed' before regrowth starts????
johnw
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I'm sure I've seen "NS" mentioned a couple of times in this thread. What is it please?
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... the hotter Annapolis Valley of NS ...
Annapolis Valley is in the Canadian province of Nova Scotia
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Ah. Thank you Alan.
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Alan - Indeed we get between 50-60" of rain a year right here in my part of the city. The rain is "spread evenly" throughout the months according to the books; in fact we get long stretches of dry summer weather and the average is made up in a couple of heavy rains which rarely penetrate, all exascerbated by thin mineral soil.
This is a big country - a 9.5hour flight from St. John's to Victoria - and it hard to generalize but while much of the country often appears to go from winter straight into summer the coasts do not. Our springs are the slowest imagineable with daff foliage often in good shape into July thanks to the Labrador Current, autumns linger on into November and sometimes December thanks to the Gulf Stream. It could very well be our slow downward transition to autumn delays hederifolium flowering but I doubt it as the hotter Annapolis Valley of NS has them flowering 6 weeeks ahead of here on the coast. More retentive soil perhaps?
I wonder how the Boston area fares with hederifolium and the flowering dates there? They get far hotter than even interior NS (especially at night) and stay hotter longer.
johnw - +5c & sunny
John, I am only growing hederifolium for the first time this year (photo below). I have had good luck with coum, so I am trying hederifolium and expect it will do well. My plan is for it to bloom with my fall drops. Is that too much to ask? I also have a number of both coum and hederifolium seedlings from a European supplier that are germinating nicely so I hope to better answer your question in a couple of years. Here is the Cyclamen seed supplier link if you are interested. Rick http://www.bravenboer.tk/ (http://www.bravenboer.tk/)
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.. I am trying hederifolium and expect it will do well. My plan is for it to bloom with my fall drops. Is that too much to ask?
In my UK garden, the few plants of C. hederifolium I grow show different flowering times, the later ones being at least a month later than the early. The peak of flowering is in September, which is too early to coincide with snowdrops.
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In my UK garden, the few plants of C. hederifolium I grow show different flowering times, the later ones being at least a month later than the early. The peak of flowering is in September, which is too early to coincide with snowdrops.
Well Alan, maybe a bit of overlap in bloom times can be hoped for then, but if not, having that terrific foliage dotted around while the drops bloom will be a fine thing for me.
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Rick - Don't give up on coum, I tried it for years with no long term success, a friend nearby has them coming up everywhere and I'm finally getting a few dependable ones just now & they certasinly have no hesitation to start flower the second it feels like spring has arrived. Do try purpurascens, the best of them all for the east - it is one that certainly starts flowering in early summer with a good continuous drink.
Alan - if your hederifolium peak is September then we are not too far off the mark with a mid to late October peak. I suppose one should ask what sparks cyclamen flowering the wild? Surely as with the Greek Crocus it must be the autumnal rains that bring on the show.
johnw
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Thanks John, I will definitely add Cyclamen pupurascens to my next seed order...If they like it here I should have a pretty good number in a few years with all the seed I am growing...great fun. And speaking of seed, I have some wild collected seed labeled, Galanthus caucasicus, from Greece that Melvyn Jope kindly let me try. It was around mid June when I got them and I have kept an eye on, and misted the pot to keep it slightly moist since that time. It has been in my cool garage for two months and I am wondering if I might get them going if I bring them into my grow room which is quite a bit warmer and has banks of lights? Any suggestions are welcomed. Rick
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Hello Rick, the Galanthus seed that I sent you was G.graecus, still regarded by some as G.elwesii. I hope they eventually germinate for you but it is too early to be concerned yet. Mine from the same collection have yet to germinate.
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Melvyn, I will not give up, no way. Thank you on the name correction, the tag is updated properly now. Would you leave in very cool conditions for the winter, about 2C to 7C, or move to warmer and under lights at about 15C?
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Rick - I got "caucasicus from Potterton & Martin back in the early 90's. It is not caucasicus, it is the last Galanthus to emerge in the ghouse, long after the rest. I have no idea what it is, picture of them attached.
Some of my G. seed sprouted a few weeks ago, others nothing. They are now in the frame so hopefully with today's plunging temps they have given up any oidea of sprouting now.
Aside from even moisture do we know exactly what the warm/cold requirements are of G. seed? We should have a survey of forumists' experiece to see if anything can be gleaned.
johnw
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I had relative slow germination with little temperature variation inside. Faster with the pots outside in the ground.
Both the same year before the first frost.
http://www.srgc.net/forum/index.php?topic=11117.0 (http://www.srgc.net/forum/index.php?topic=11117.0)