Scottish Rock Garden Club Forum
General Subjects => General Forum => Topic started by: Lisa Marie Claire on October 15, 2007, 12:26:00 AM
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Hi there I know a few people very interested in living roofs, and thought some of you might be too!If so contact me :)
They look stunning and as its a fairly new thing using sedum as a roof covering, you may like to know more ;D
Ian and Maggie , your welcome to come over and see i will call you when its finished for a first looky ;)
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Hi Lisa,
Funny coincidence but I just logged on to post a couple of pictures of our own newly installed green roof but I don't want to hijack your thread! We had it installed professionally but insisted we do the planting ourselves so we could try other plants besides sedum as an experiment (Delosperma for example, but also less obvious things...). We spent the weekend before last planting it up (and I don't like heights much - especially when Susan takes away the ladder and forgets about me for an hour!) so we are keen to see what establishes.
Keep us posted on progress.
Darren.
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Darren, I'm sure Lisa will agree that there is more than enough room here for several living roof stories!
Kepp us updated please... pix?!!
What did you say to Susan to make her take away the ladder, by the way?? ::)
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I didn't say nuffin'. Honest. I am a picture of innocence, as always. I dread the day Susan gets web access and can tell you all the truth....
OK - here's a few pix.
The planting media is crushed recycled bricks and grit and clay aggregate plus other secret ingredients apparently. And it isn't cheap! There is a 10cm depth over the water retaining foam. There is a border of coarse gravel to ensure efficient drainage.
Planting list includes about 15 sedums, a few Delosperma including sphalmanthoides as mentioned by Panayoti at the discussion weekend. There are various silver leaved carpeters such as Achillea, Gnaphalium, Antennaria, Helichrysum. Silver saxifrages. Even a couple of Edelweiss! The important point is that if plants are purchased from an ordinary nursery or garden centre (i.e. not grown in special green-roof media) then every trace of compost must be washed off.. This took two of us a whole day, plus the ones Susan washed as I was planting on the next day. We now really dislike nurseries who use peat based composts but love those who use a proper loam and grit mix (Bravo Ron and Tim - the plants we got from you in Glasgow were a DREAM to prepare and plant). We'll let you know what survives the next 12 months!
Incidentally - the window directly above the roof is our spare room so Ian will get a good view in March.
Please give us the details of your roof Lisa - this will be an interesting resource if we can put together lots of information. What works in mild wet lancashire might not be the same as what works in Aberdeen.
Think of all the unutilised planting space out there!
D.
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Further - How about a roof planted with bulbs Ian? Small species which are easy going as to availability of moisture in summer such as Crocus, muscari, cyclamen etc would look great whilst in flower if they can get enough nutrients in this sparse medium.
D.
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That's looking great already! What size would that area be?
We are thinking of building a raised roof garden aboce the roof of the shed nearest the neighbours' hideous extension, to give us something NICE to look at. This shed has its roff sloping the wrong way, however, so we ( that is Ian! ) plan to build a framework to sit above the roof of the shed, sloping towards us, to hold a mixture of things that should enjoy the 'roofy' conditions. Plan is to make planting medium a reasonable depth to accomodate a few bulbs ,too 8)
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Hi Maggi,
area is about 2 x 3 metres. I've attached another picture to give some sense of scale.
Should have pointed out that extra joists needed to be fitted to support the weight. The preparatory work is quite complex too. This is one good reason to get a professional to do the installation if it is to go on a dwelling house.
We too have ideas about our shed, which is an eyesore. Did anyone else see Gardeners World the other week when they disguised a shed using stacked logs with ferns planted in the gaps and on the roof? It has given us ideas but we need to rebuild the shed first to make it smaller and also because it is about to fall down....
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Extensive Green Roofs
These are lightweight roofs with self-sufficient with plants that are wind, drought and frost resistant. They are not designed to be accessible except for maintenance.
http://www.bauder.co.uk this is the company who we are using for the supply of our sedum roof.
The sedum roof is not on yet but i will post some pictures of it finished in a few weeks.meanwhile i will post some progress pictures of my garage and jewellery and stained glass Studio.....
I am gonna post just one picture first as i have not put pics on here yet, i dunno what size it will appear ! i think Maggie said to make them 6'' by 9''? maybe someone can enlighten me?
The pitch of our roof is 11 degrees and faces or house so we can see it and the front of the garage is clad in treated Cedar wood and the gables and back sides are harled in kemnay dry dash.The sdum comes in a blanket roll much like turf does, so its quick to install and theres no tiresome planting involved(our roof is 70 meters squared !) Different sub-species are chosen to give a good aesthetic mix, flowering predominately between May and July.
Fertiliser is essential to maintain the condition of the plants, as little nutrient exists in the shallow growing medium. Nutrients in the form of fertiliser help the plants to become conditioned and resistant to temperature extremes. It also helps some plants to flower and seed. Without fertiliser, the strongest and most resistant species will become predominant and you will end up with a monoculture, losing the variety and aesthetic balance.
Fertiliser is best applied each year during springtime (end of March to mid May).
Watering is necessary during initial installation, particularly when the system is installed during warm weather periods.
For roofs with a fall below 10°, irrigation is not normally necessary. We do recommend considering a permanent leaky pipe irrigation system on roofs above 10° and consider it essential on slopes exceeding 20°, particularly if they are south facing. It should be noted that the use of this irrigation is limited to extended periods of very hot weather only. In such conditions the system should be turned on once every 4-7 days during the hot weather periods only. Irrigation systems are relatively inexpensive and use is infrequent.
;D
mmmmm i couldnt even post pictures as they a tooooooooo BIG! it says 300 kb i think?someone please tell me the size they need to be!?
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Hi, Lisa, sorry, busy stuffing face with curry!
make your pix about 750 pixels wide by 600 high, at around 80 to 90 or even 103kb... that seems to be anaverage for biggish pix.
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Thankyou Maggie ;D
what alot of fire works going off tonight!cats are scared poor wee toots! >:(
found a very good site with excellent pictures:
www.evergreenroofgardens.co.uk :o look at their projects
I will need to edit my photos on my computer and im using my lap top just now so i will post them as soon as i get time.
By the way anyone looking for sedum can buy different varieties on ebay , lots of them are alpines i noticed. :oI just LOVE ebay! its toooo good ;D
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Maggi has requested an update on the green roof and I cannot say no to Maggi can I?
First is a picture from early 2008 when we added the plants purchased from the spring shows that year. The plantings from the previous autumn had not yet filled out so it looks little different. The jaunty angle is a result of Susan taking the picture by sticking her hand out of the bathroom window and shooting blind. I'm amazed I didn't fall off looking at it now!
Next is early spring this year where growth had not yet got underway for the year. There is a general view down the garden with the roof in the foreground, then a closer look.
Last is a picture from july this year and shows that things have really filled out during this season.
I'll put up a list of successes and failures next post ...
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OK - this is how things have fared:
Successes are: Edelweiss is terrific and fully perennial (not a favourite but we can't grow it elsewhere in the garden no matter what we try), Assorted creeping veronicas, though these suffer in dry spells as they are shallow rooted and can't exploit the 10cm depth of growing media. The little Achillea species do really well and their silvery foliage is lovely too. Silver saxes are happy but rather green due to the non-limy growing media. All the Sedums and Sempervivum have done well as predicted. Several cushion Drabas are doing OK but obviously not the woolly foliage types like mollissima which we haven't tried. Antennaria is very happy.
Less successful:
Delosperma are not as happy as I expected. This might be due to mollusc predation but I'm not sure. These are the only significant losses.
I had a theory that many dwarf bulbs such as muscari and crocus would thrive but we have yet to test this.
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Lisa & Darren
Found this very intersting, never thought about covering roofs with plants. I have seen roofs covered in grass but never plants, so now I will now what to do when I run out of ground space, only one thing I too am scared of heights.
Angie :)
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Nice roof Darren - I don't have a green roof myself but have always been interested in them - I thought you may like to see some photographs of roofs I have seen.
This one is in central london and is open as part of the National Garden Scheme by appointment - if anyone is interested please PM me for the details.
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These are a couple I saw in Madeira
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And these are 'living walls' I have spotted in London
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Regards
John
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Wow - I like the living walls!!
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That's interesting, I'd love to try one of these but every roof is very steep and I worry about structural strength.
I'm lucky to catch this thread a couple of years on and see what worked for Darren. I suspected the Delospermas wouldn't like it. D. sphalmanthoides won't live outside for me despite being extremely hardy and a bit of a winter grower. Seems ideal but the climate here is just too wet. Most Delospermas need plenty of summer water, which in habitat they get from intermittent torrential rain and deep roots. Did you try D. nubigenum?
The hardy Sedums work because they are adapted to Mediterranean conditions. Perhaps other Mediterranean succulents would do well. Lampranthus near the coast. Ruschia uncinata? Hereroa glenensis? Disphyma crassifolium? I suspect Cyclamen tubers would fry in the summer if the roof faces south.
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I have read about living walls and seen a little on TV about them..... these photos from John are great! Thanks
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Fantastic walls John.
Darren - please not so close to the edge when planting, my legs shake at the very sight of you with back to the precipice!
johnw
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I believe that living walls are done using hydroponics (is that the right word) as the growing system.
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I believe that living walls are done using hydroponics (is that the right word) as the growing system.
I suppose that is the right word, David, since the whole key to the living walls is the pretty constant irrigation system....using, I believe surprisingly little water though running often...... fascinatiing thing... the engineering to affix the plants to the upright must be pretty tricky.
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What plants are used on the walls and how do they stay up there. OK, Tricky engineering? but what, exactly?
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Lesley, I tried a search to see if I could find a link to the National geographic programme that I think I saw about the living walls; didn't find that but did find reports of "death" of London's first living wall :o..... I suggest you have a "google".... there are ads from firms who install them... it's a complicated subject.... you can grow bigger types of plantsthan you would imagine.... quite big ferns and things in shady walls.... ::)
http://www.architectsjournal.co.uk/news/daily-news/the-paradise-park-fallout-are-living-walls-worth-it/5208251.article
http://www.architectsjournal.co.uk/5207086.article
http://www.shelterpop.com/2009/10/30/londons-living-wall/
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i've seen these walls before, esp those by patrick blanc, which the london one looks like, they are made using some sort of proprietary lightweight mesh/fibre (usually the info is a little vague, since they are proprietary ;) through which a nutrient solution is dripped/circulated..
i've been very interested in doing something like this on a much smaller scale, indoors, with succulents and or tropicals, but the mesh/substrate is the key; i suspect you could do something with sheets of coco fibre such as are used for lining hanging baskets, but it likely wouldnt have the same longevity or strength as the panels used for blanc's living walls;
there are similar systems commercially available for green rooves as well, with thin layers of fibre into which plants are placed, with no soil or anything similar naturally these are very light, though of course a roof full of sedums turgid with water after rain would still have some weight;
i was interested to see lisa marie mentioning irrigation which i had not heard of (or maybe forgot) in the context of extensive rooves (the light, no soil, artifical panel/fibre type of construction, versus intensive, which involve some sort of soil analog and more conventional gardening, simply on a roof..)
here's another wall, in spain:
http://www.greenpacks.org/2008/03/17/green-vertical-garden-wall-in-madrid/
btw, as it mentions, blancs original inspiration and original projects involve rainforest plants, but i believe later projects have been done with just about any sort of plants, small shrubs etc..they are not restricted to plants which grow in any way like this in nature..
and a bunch of things on rooftops, though with the angle of food growing:
http://www.cityfarmer.org/subrooftops.html
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Lesley, I tried a search to see if I could find a link to the National geographic programme that I think I saw about the living walls; didn't find that but did find reports of "death" of London's first living wall :o..... I suggest you have a "google".... there are ads from firms who install them... it's a complicated subject.... you can grow bigger types of plantsthan you would imagine.... quite big ferns and things in shady walls.... ::)
http://www.architectsjournal.co.uk/news/daily-news/the-paradise-park-fallout-are-living-walls-worth-it/5208251.article
http://www.architectsjournal.co.uk/5207086.article
http://www.shelterpop.com/2009/10/30/londons-living-wall/
i think this brings up some good points--i love the look of those walls, but for an exterior project, i think i'd rather find some way of doing it that was more self sustaining--i'm not a fan of watering in the first place, and mechanised systems are simply an opportunity to fail!
i have seen projects that actually have a growing medium between walls or supports (look at harry jans' tufa wall, and i have seen other concepts) or even a fibre which could wick moisture up from a pond below and or drip from rain reservoirs above etc etc--all with plants suited to the variability of moisture those ideas suggest--epiphytes, lithophytes, alpines!...
plants wanting more moisture situated in zones that wick more etc...
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One of the London ones is on the 'Athenaeum hotel' in Piccadilly - Cohan is correct in identifying it as a 'Patrick Blanc' living wall - the Hotel publish a list of plants and some more photos on the hotel website:
Plants:
http://www.athenaeumhotel.com/pdf/plantcopy1.pdf
Closer Photos:
http://www.athenaeumhotel.com/location/living_wall.aspx
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Ian,
Delosperma sphalmanthoides was one of the failures, yes. My original plant in the alpine house is now 20cm in diameter and seems indestructible. Funny what a bit of extra water can do! The only surviving Delosperma is, as you suggest, nubigenum (or one of its relatives - life is too short for me to get involved in the taxonomy of this gennus!). No other mesembs have been tried yet.
The roof faces south & west and I do intend trying some cyclamen but it would have to be those more accustomed to exposed positions and summer dryness. I even wonder about C.graecum? We can grow virtually all the hardy species outside in our garden without trouble: obviously coum & hederifolium but also purpurascens, cilicium, intaminatum, repandum, pseudibericum and mirabile. I'm sure one of that lot might accept conditions on the roof?