Scottish Rock Garden Club Forum
Specific Families and Genera => Iris => Topic started by: Diane Whitehead on October 14, 2007, 06:34:33 AM
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I sent seed of Pacific Coast iris to the SRGC seed exchange.
Two lots were collected in Oregon and California, and I put
pictures of the flowers in the Seed Exchange part of the Forum.
I sent two lots of hybrid seed. One was from Pacific Rim which
produces good seedlings.
The picture shows Pacific Rim on the left, and two of its
seedlings on the right.
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I correspond with several hybridizers who live along the Pacific Coast
of Canada and the U.S. We all have different aims. One is trying for
a pure turquoise flower, someone else is developing scented flowers.
We exchange seeds so that we can see how our hybrids do in a different
climate.
The choice of what to aim for sometimes happens by luck. I was ripping
out a row of plants with boring flowers when I suddenly noticed that one
plant had a lot more flowers than normal - I counted them, and each stem
had 9 buds. Well! a new aim. Lots of buds and more exciting flowers.
The pictures show some of my flowers that I have crossed with multi-buds.
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Diane,
Beautiful!! your seedlings are lovely, and 'Pacific Rim' is gorgeous. The Pcific Coast Iris are fantastic. Just coming into flower here at the moment, although not going to be a good year for them this year in my garden as conditions have been hard as I was ill last summer (so not much watering). Still got a few flowers though. I just love me, and want to grow more of them but they are rarely available here, except for one year when they were through the nurseries. Not seen them since then. Have a few seedlings of my own about the place, including a rather nice lavendar and white combination. it will flower shortly. Others I have include 'Flotilla' (white with pale blue overlay when opening), the yellow that Fermi posted pics of the other day, 'Deepening Shadows' (black), 'Endless' (cream and burgundy), pink and purple (don't know it's name), plus a few older types that aren't as big and ruffled. None of these are as ruffled as your seedlings though Diane. Yours are extremely impressive!! Great to see the pics, and would love to see any more pics you have of your seedlings.
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Another aim of mine is to produce plants with more interesting
leaves.
Except for deciduous Iris tenax, the most northerly species of the Californicae,
all the Pacific Coast iris have narrow evergreen leaves. Some have
red at the base of the leaves, and Iris bracteata has red along its
flower stem and along its bracts as well.
I spent a couple of weeks looking for wild plants with red on the leaves,
and found one colony of bracteata along a road near Cave Junction in
southern Oregon. [when I returned this year, I found that the road was
being widened in preparation for subdividing the surrounding land.
I found 29 seeds that had dropped down a bank. I am distributing them
to nearby growers so the population doesn't disappear.]
When I got home, I discovered that all the seedlings from my daughter's
white Iris douglasiana had red on the leaves and spathes. I didn't have
to travel so far after all.
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Diane,
nice white too!! You're right, adding more to the foliage value makes sense. Red flush to foliage gives something more, and well worth trying for I think.
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Hi Diane,
I grow an iris that has very interesting foliage when it comes up in spring - Iris x robusta 'Dark Aura'. If you haven't got it and want some email me and I'll see what I can do. Foliage that first appears is very purple and is always remarked upon by visitors.
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Thanks, Chris. Iris X robusta, is available here somewhere. I saw a pot
of it being carried away from a plant sale, the dark purple leaves noticeable
from a distance.
I doubt it would do well in my garden - not enough sun (bearded iris have
been here for about 30 years but only flower the year after a tree blows
down), and much too dry. X robusta is a natural hybrid between two swamp,
ditch or moist meadow dwellers, Iris virginica and I. versicolor.
That's why I grow so many Pacific Coast iris - they are perfectly adapted
to our rainless summers and rainy winters, and do well in shade, though
some sun is ok too.
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No problem. I love those PC iris' they are very nice. Have one here from Broadleigh, given to me by Sue G - I. 'Broadleigh Lavinia' - wonderful mauve/purple flowers. Superb. Must get more....
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BTW, my daughter lives in Abbotsford, are you anywhere near there?
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Iris are SO glamorous, aren't they.... like fabulous Can-Can dancers!
Nine buds on a stem sounds good to me, I must say... and scent is ALWAYS a plus point... happy hybridising!
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they are rarely available here, except for one year when they were through the nurseries. Not seen them since then.
They are not readily available here, either. They don't relish being transplanted,
and don't fit in well to the usual nursery timetable.
They are adapted to our North American Pacific Coast climate of dry summers
and rainy winters. They are mostly evergreen, but just sit and maintain
themselves all summer, then put out new roots when the rains start. October and
November is when I dig up clumps, break them up, and pot them for sale in April
and May when they are in flower. Disturbing clumps at any other time results in
a high percentage of dead plants.
It is possible to move the whole plant at other times, but the transplant will require
care, and will need watering regularly during its first summer. Established plants
require no watering, but will not die if they are watered, unlike some of our natives.
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Hi Diane,
I'll be scouring the SRGC Seedex list for your PCIris seed!
cheers
fermi
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Diane et al,
I hope you don't mind me adding a few more PCIs here?
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Those two may or may not have names, but the plants were given to me wthout names so I really don't know.
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This is one of my own seedlings (not deliberately crossed, but I can make a guess at the parentage to a degree). The colour is really delicate in person, with pretty much everyone who's seen it commenting how nice it is. The white and lavender combination and the good size of the flowers works well. Good grower too, unlike some.
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I said earlier that we needed more of these PCIs so we got a new one on the weekend and it's now in bloom - still in its pot.
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cheers
fermi
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Fermi,
That would be 'Sahara Dunes' by the look of it. Great colour, although quite unusual in a flower to have that sort of cinnamon.
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I notice that the Pacific Rim seeds I sent to the exchange must have been lumped
in with mixed hybrids. I didn't label the seeds with their name, because I find
that quite a few people (around here, anyway) will label their seedlings with the
parental name. Therefore, I just described Pacific Rim. I notice that seeds are
listed separately if they do have names, so I guess I will have to do that next year.
Meantime, I have more seeds as I didn't manage to negotiate the U.S. regulations
and get NARGS seeds sent in time.
So I can mail some Pacific Rim seeds to a few of you.
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Hi Diane
I've just sent you a personal message with my address as I'd love to try these. As Pacific Coast hybrids aren't recognised by our Quarantine Service they should be labelled as Iris innominata (hybrids) as that should be allowed!
cheers
fermi
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Fermi,
I had thought that all the Iris were OK here.... glad you're better on the ball than I am. I sent a PM earlier saying that irises were fine into Aus, so I definitely got it wrong in that one. Sorry Diane.
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Off on a tanned gent!
Paul, AQIS changed the rules recently so that now no genus of plants is completely accepted! Each species (and if you get a picky AQIS officer, even each SUBspecies) must be on the list to be allowed into the country. Also they will no longer hold seed in their office while you fill out a WRA (Weed Risk Assessment) as that is deemed to be "allowing it into the country"!
Check the list on ICON:http://www.aqis.gov.au/icon32/asp/ex_querycontent.asp (http://www.aqis.gov.au/icon32/asp/ex_querycontent.asp)
before you order ANYTHING!
cheers
fermi
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I know that New Zealand only allows Iris innominata and Iris douglasiana, of
the Pacific Coast iris, and not hybrids.
Hybrids make them nervous for some reason.
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I just looked up the Australian site, and they allow all the Pacific Coast species:
Iris bracteata
Iris chrysophylla
Iris douglasiana
Iris fernaldii
Iris hartwegii
innominata
Iris macrosiphon
Iris munzii
Iris purdyi
Iris tenax
tenuis
tenuissima
thompsonii
So you're all set for anything I collect.
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I just looked up the Australian site, and they allow all the Pacific Coast species:
As I read this, Diane, I swear I could hear a huge sigh of relief and happy anticipation from Paul... even at this distance ;)
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And MAF allows the same species into New Zealand.
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Maggi,
;D ;D ;D
And after Diane's clarification there'll be salivation across the Tasman as well I'd imagine!! ;)
Thanks Diane. 8)
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The PCNs have started here in Canberra..... This one I don't have a name for, I just label it as "purple". ;D
Diane, the seed you sent has had good germination and they're growing happily at the moment. Great stuff!! 8) Thanks.
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I've posted this in previous years, and I'm sure I'll post it again.... one of my own seedlings (in fact the only one I have kept as yet). A delicate white and lavender.
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very nice Paul. Why didnt you keep other seedlings?
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Just seen this thread and the beauties shown last year - I can feel my paintbrush quivering! Gorgeous colours.
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Mark,
I was just rescuing seedlings from amongst the plants, not actually sowing seed much (not much space). The others I had flower were close enough to original parents that I didn't bother keeping them.... this seedling was the one that stood out out of maybe the dozen or so that flowered. I wish I had space to cross and grow on a lot of these, but such is life. Looking forward to Diane's seedlings flowering in a couple of years. They're all doing well.
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Hi Paul & Fermi,this week a mail order list of PCI arrive from Heidi Blyth,has some great iris's in her list,if you need a contact no PM me,or ring Tempo Two in Melbourne and they will give you her no.bye Ray
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Hi Paul & Fermi,this week a mail order list of PCI arrive from Heidi Blyth,has some great iris's in her list,if you need a contact no PM me,or ring Tempo Two in Melbourne and they will give you her no.bye Ray
Hi Ray,
"great minds"! I saw Tim and Heidi at Tesselaar's Expo a fortnight ago and put my name down for a copy of the list. It's very impressive with lots of colour pics but no website! All in good time I suppose?
Some good cultural hints as well.
cheers
fermi
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Hi fermi,forgot all about the Rare Plant Expo maybe next year.Do you go to the one at Mt Macedon in Sept? bye Ray
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Is this a Pacific Coast Iris?
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Yes, it is, though that name has not been registered.
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A few years ago this plant was sent from America to a friend as a thank you for opening her garden to the overseas visitors. It was named but the label is long lost. Are there any names with Raspberry or Ripple in the name?
When can I lift and divide my plants?
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There is a Razzleberry Lady and Raspberry Dazzler. There is a Ripple Rock but that is yellow. There may be other Ripples, but unfortunately books don't have a search function.
Here is a photo of Raspberry Dazzler - not mine, but from a CD produced by SPCNI, the Society for Pacific Coast Native Iris, in 2006.
If you can find out who the visitors were, I may be able to query them. There are not many places that sell named PCI so it should be fairly easy to find out. Meantime I will copy your photo to send to our hybridizers group, if I may.
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Regarding breaking up a clump:
Pacific Coast species grow naturally where summers are dry and winters rainy. In fall, when the rains begin, they produce new white roots and push out new leaves. This is when I dig them up for potting. In summer they are dormant so aren't inclined to settle themselves into a new home.
It is generally safe to dig and transplant a whole clump anytime, but it will require watering throughout its first summer.
Breaking up clumps in spring resulted in a third of my divisions dying, so I now do it in October and November as the weather is still pleasant then.
However, U.K. conditions are quite different from ours, and PCI have been grown very successfully there for a long time, so local advice would be best for you.
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Of course you can pass the photo round
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Is this a Pacific Coast Iris?
Hi Mark,
does it usually have so few petals?
cheers
fermi
Hi fermi,forgot all about the Rare Plant Expo maybe next year.Do you go to the one at Mt Macedon in Sept? bye Ray
Hi Ray,
I've missed the last year or two but hope to get there this year!
cheers
fermi
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No, they are usually 3 and 3
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The hybridizers have all had a look at your photo, Mark, and so far
there is no definite name.
Here are some comments. The final one is from a nurseryman who hasn't answered yet after I sent him the photo:
Not Rasberry Dazzler which has a little bit more modern or wider flower form. Kind of looks like Distant Nebula, but I think there are probably a bunch out there that look like this, probably of the 1980's introduction vintage. Joe Ghio might be able to ID it. He has a great memory for his (and other's) introductions.
From the photo, the iris may be Big Wheel, a Ghio hybrid from the 80s.
We still grow and sell Big Wheel, an incredibly tough plant.
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OK. We've got the answer from Terry Aitken, who searched his slides without
success, and then found the picture in his 1995 catalogue.
'Big Wheel' (Ghio '84) Mitchell Medal '86
Terry owns Salmon Creek Nursery, in Vancouver, Washington. (not Vancouver British Columbia, but a former Hudson's Bay Company fort across the river from Portland Oregon)
http://www.flowerfantasy.net/
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Well done, Diane and Terry! All those busy Iris brains, beavering away to great effect! 8)
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Here is a seedling I grew from RHS seed some years ago. Partly evergreen, I have considered it a form of douglasiana or a close hybrid. Any comments from some experts?
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I never said thanks for the trouble to ID my Iris.
I must divide mine tomorrow
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I can only find two poor quality photos on the internet. Diane could you ask your contacts for their photos of Big Wheel?
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It might take a while - next season someone can photograph it.
It's not available on the DVD.
The picture on the net is probably scanned.
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Is the one on this page not good enough?
http://www.pacificcoastiris.org/RRgroPCI.html
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Thanks Maggi
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Does anyone in eastern USA have experience and success growing PCI iris? They are said to be very difficult here because plant species that want to be winter evergreen get battered by winters more harsh than they experience on western coastal USA. I could easily get very involved with these if they'd grow; most gardeners in these parts say "don't bother with them".
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Iris tenax, the northernmost species, from Oregon and the southern half of Washington, is deciduous. This could make it more suitable for cold climates. I suspect that hot humid summers would be more likely to do them in than winter cold, though.
I have found that my most successful plants are seed-grown, as most of the named ones I have imported from California don't survive. I don't get a high seedling survival rate if some of the most-southern species figure prominently in the parentage - perhaps 20% for the sky-blue I. munzii hybrids. But fortunately, the seedlings from my few survivors produce lots of hardy seedlings, so acclimatization is rapid.
So it's best to sow lots of seeds.
I read somewhere that the California Department of Agriculture grew 10,000 plants of an Australian shrub to find a couple of successful ones that became common landscape plants there. I can't remember the plant, and can't remember whether most of them died or were eliminated deliberately. However, I remind myself of this when I get discouraged by seedling attrition.
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Good advice Diane, thanks. Seems like I need to try seed and start looking for the hardiest seedlings. I'm gaga for those yellow, brown veined, and bronzy red colors, although frankly I wouldn't turn any of them away.
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Mark i can send you some seed next year if you would like.
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I think I read somewhere that PCI's need an acid soil, does anyone grow them in a fairly neutral soil?
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Mark i can send you some seed next year if you would like.
Davey, that would be awesome... one of us will have to remember, my memory for such things is spotty at best. I know you were interested in some Trillium seed, but this year with our record breaking drought and heat and water ban, most all seed capsules aborted, the few that hung on (mostly just T. vaseyi) gave very poor seed set... the pods were dehydrated, and the super big pod I was hoping for on T. vaseyi was eaten by a squirrel the day I was about to harvest it. At least I received a most generous collection of fresh seed of Trillium species new to my garden, so with luck in 4-5 years I'll have yet more species I could collect seed on.
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I think I read somewhere that PCI's need an acid soil, does anyone grow them in a fairly neutral soil?
Some of the hybrids eg. Broadleigh Chelsea Yellow do okay in my chalky soil.
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Wish I could say the same for the Broadleigh Hybrids in my Aberdeen garden on slightly acid sandy loam........ :'( :'(
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I have found that my most successful plants are seed-grown,
Hi Diane,
the first seedlings from the seeds you sent me have started to flower!
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there should another open today which will be more like "Pacific Rim" judging from the colour of the bud.
And a few others from "Big Money" are also open
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cheers
fermi
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This is the only one I have and opened yesterday.
Ken Gillanders in Hobart (Sandfly) gave it to me earlier in the year simply labelled "Pacific Coast hybrid Iris - Yellow Fr"
It looks much like your second one Fermi. Is there a more precise name?
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This is the only one I have and opened yesterday.
Ken Gillanders in Hobart (Sandfly) gave it to me earlier in the year simply labelled "Pacific Coast hybrid Iris - Yellow Fr"
It looks much like your second one Fermi. Is there a more precise name?
Well, John, as mine is a seedling from "Big Money" I was thinking along the lines of "Small Change" ;D
or perhaps "Gold Coin Donation" which could be a popular choice!
cheers
fermi
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These are the PCI seedlings from Canada that might be from "Pacific Rim"
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cheers
fermi
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It doesn't have the look of a Pacific Rim seedling. That's disappointing.
Do you have more yet to flower?
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Fermi,
Your seedlings from Diane are doing better than mine (assuming they were from the same lot?). No flowers on mine as yet, but hopefully big enough by next year. ;D
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Here are some of the PCI we got from Heidi Blyth at "Sunshine and Dirt",
cheers
fermi
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It doesn't have the look of a Pacific Rim seedling. That's disappointing.
Do you have more yet to flower?
Diane,
at least they are different to anything I had before! ;D
There are a few more to flower as some more germinated just as I unpotted the 6 or so that I planted out. I re-potted those and they look like they might flower next year if I'm able to plant them out in June.
I'll keep you posted!
cheers
fermi
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Howdy All,
Some Pacific Coast Iris which are in flower here at the moment....
A pale blue-mauve given to me by a friend.
'Europian Mist' (that is how it was spelled when I received it, no idea whether it should be 'European Mist' or not?)
A mauve and white seedling of my own breeding.
'Sunday Arvo' (not a perfect bloom, but it gives you the idea of the colour.
Enjoy. 8)
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Good to see all these Southern photos.
I'm trying to figure out how to get seedlings to grow and flower faster.
Usually it takes three years in my garden. However, I planted some
in an allotment garden I rent so I can grow vegetables. The soil is
heavier, there's a lot of sunshine, and I water weekly. I am amazed
at how much faster they clump up than in my home garden.
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Howdy All,
Some Pacific Coast Iris which are in flower here at the moment....
:o lust at first sight
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Wonderful stuff Fermi and Paul !! Gorgeous flowers.
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A last one (I think), a pale "ice-blue" I got at the FCHS Autumn Show!
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cheers
fermi
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My yellow (dubbed "Small Change" - see Oct 22) is developing two very fat seed pods.
Do the seeds produce similar colours or could I get anything?
John
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My yellow (dubbed "Small Change" - see Oct 22) is developing two very fat seed pods.
Do the seeds produce similar colours or could I get anything?
John
John,
Your yellow is quite possibly the same as the parent of mine which I got as "Big Money" which means it was imported as a live plant (clone) but which may quite easily be a seed-raised "lookalike".
All the seedlings I raised from it have been similar to the parent but it was isolated from other PCI's at flowering time.
If yours had pollen from other PCIs applied to it it would increase the possibility of different colours arising in the seedlings.
It's all in the genes!
cheers
fermi
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Thanks Fermi.
Since it is the only one I have, I will assume there has been no cross pollination.
If it produces good seed, I might as well plant them and see what happens.
John
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John,
Definitely worthwhile planting it..... you just never know what is going to be in the results. I did a bunch of different random crosses between all of mine that were out this year, so it will remain to see what the results are. Some had 3 different pollens put onto them, so you just never know. ;D The 'Europian Mist' appears to have set a pod by itself too, with no help from me. That one in particular will be interesting to see what a selfing results in. Who knows how complex it's parentage is. ;D ;D I'll keep you posted in a few years as to results, if I can find the space to sow the darn things. ::)
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John,
Definitely worthwhile planting it..... you just never know what is going to be in the results. I did a bunch of different random crosses between all of mine that were out this year, so it will remain to see what the results are. Some had 3 different pollens put onto them, so you just never know. ;D The 'Europian Mist' appears to have set a pod by itself too, with no help from me. That one in particular will be interesting to see what a selfing results in. Who knows how complex it's parentage is. ;D ;D I'll keep you posted in a few years as to results, if I can find the space to sow the darn things. ::)
I know that feeling!
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will be interesting to see what a selfing results in. Who knows how complex it's parentage is.
I agree that it is worthwhile to sow seeds, whether deliberately crossed or
open-pollinated.
Irises are not set up to be easily selfed - the stamens are tucked in underneath
the stigmatic flaps. Not like flowers that drop their pollen all over the stigma. Of
course, if there were a number of flowers on the one plant, and bees were buzzing
about from flower to flower, it could have been selfed by the bees.
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another bunch of seedlings (not my arm ), plus 2 varieties that have been growing in my garden for over50 years . The crimson one has much more narrower segments than the more recent hybrids. The yellow flowered plant I believe to be the species I innominata , a dwarf plant with very narrow foliage . Could someone who is more knowledgeable than I please confirm it - thanks otto.
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Looks like innominata to me, Otto.
Here's a wild one to compare.
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All very nice, Otto and Diane. Such a cool type of iris, aren't they. ;D
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thanks Diane , yes the photo of I. innominata taken in the wild corresponds with the plant in my garden .
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Diane,
do you have PCIs growing in your area? As I understand, this would be outside of their natural distribution, but they may have since established themselves. I'm asking, as I am looking for seed from particularly winterhardy species populations. At the moment, I am growing some hybrids from seed with great success (mainly from seed ex, which is typically hybrid seed) and wanted to get a bit more serious with a breeding program aimed for hardiness. Unlike most hybridizers, I plan to follow toward narrower, more spidery forms with clear colour and patterns. As much as the wider petaled blossoms impact have, I find narrower floral parts bring a delicate note often missing in the modern garden. Tastes are different.
I just joined the SPCNI, which was new to me. There are so many interesting specialist groups out there. If not for this forum, I wouldn't have found this one.
Otto, your I. innominata has a great clear colour. The veining is less prominent than most wild clones I've seen fotos of. I hope you can set seed on it. Apparently, this is an extremely fecund group of iris where hybrids and gradations are common in the wild. Quite exciting....and a taxonomists nightmare! ;D
Jamie
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No, none here. The most-northern iris, tenax, grows to a bit south of Seattle, but
I don't know of anyone growing it here as we all seem to prefer ones with
evergreen foliage.
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A friend of mine has a number of largish clumps of seed grown “pacific coast type” Iris hybrids, now in seed. These resulted from just 2 plants. “Broadleigh Rose” and (I think) “Pinewood Sunshine”, and range in colour through white – yellow – pinks – purples - blues etc. 1 or 2 similar to the parents but many quite different.
The question is when would it be best to split these large clumps to establish elsewhere in the garden, and in pots for wider distribution? My own experience is very mixed with this type of Iris, and I have seen many plants in gardens, some very well known, that did not make it after planting out.
All I have found on the forum so far is Diane’s advice for the west coast
http://www.srgc.net/forum/index.php?topic=882.msg83911#msg83911 (http://www.srgc.net/forum/index.php?topic=882.msg83911#msg83911)
Any other comments for the south east of England? How big should each section be? Many of the clumps would divide into 10 or more individual plants, roots allowing.
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I divide them quite successfully about the end of September or early October and they all flower very well the next summer. Individual plants will be successful. I think you will loose them if you do it now,but others might have a different opinion.
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divide in automn, big divisions are best, they like to be potted or planted in coarse garden compost. Hot dry conditions will prevent successfull rooting
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I will pass on the advice, and see what gets through to next summer. Thanks.
Off at a slight tangent; I have 3 times tried to establish the white form of Iris unguicularis, without success. All bought from Avon bulbs. The last time bought potted and was advised to plunge the pot until growing well and then lift and remove the pot and replant. I did just that and it still died. The normal named blue forms have never been a problem.
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you are not alone, Walter Butt behaves this way for me. Try planting against a wall and mulch with two inches of gravel... using a pot in a plunge to start the rooting certainly works for me. Again I put a layer of gravel on top of the pot.
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These PCI have just started to flower - I think they are more of the mixed seed which I received from Diane W. many years ago!
Thanks again, Diane - and no, none of the 'Pacific Rim' ones made it to flowering size :'(
cheers
fermi
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This is one that we've had for awhile and came labelled as 'Big Money'
and a cluster of the earlier seedlings from the seeds I got from Diane W,
cheers
fermi
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Can i just give everybody the heads up,the Society for Pacific Coast Native Iris has just put up there new seed list,there are some fantastic things on there.
Added by maggi : http://www.pacificcoastiris.org/ (http://www.pacificcoastiris.org/)
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Thanks Davey & Maggi, good value. I have placed an order.
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Thank you as well Maggie ;D
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Well I reckon someone deserves some commission after all our orders ;D ;D
Cheers 8)
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Brian it is an incredible list,i mainly went for species.