Scottish Rock Garden Club Forum
Bulbs => Galanthus => Topic started by: mark smyth on February 17, 2012, 02:41:40 PM
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While in England I saw fabulous Wendy's Golds with wide plicate leaves. My plants have narrow wavy leaves. What are the leaves like on your plants?
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Wavy foliage here.
Paddy
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Wave Leaves here too
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I think wavy is a given; my leaves look a bit broader.
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Alan your's are broad. I should have photographed and bought the plants at Jo's house.
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I wonder if Wendy's Gold has been chipped and twin-scaled so much that there have been some mutations so not all the population is the same?
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I wonder if Wendy's Gold has been chipped and twin-scaled so much that there have been some mutations so not all the population is the same?
Alan
This has certainly happened with rhododendrons propagated by conventional means.
Roseum Elegans gave Roseum One gave Roseum Two but after many long years. The latter a bit better than the first.
jhonw
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Mine are wavy. I'm intrigued my the mechanism by which vegetatively propagated plants can show such variation from the parent - and I'm thinking specifically of Trym-type snwdrops. Does anybody have any theories?
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Mutations happern also in the micro proping of Hostas
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But why should a mutation be more likely in bulbils produced by chipping than in bulbils produced by normal offsetting?
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There are more of them?
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Mine are wavy. I'm intrigued my the mechanism by which vegetatively propagated plants can show such variation from the parent - and I'm thinking specifically of Trym-type snwdrops. Does anybody have any theories?
Wobbly genes?
johnw
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Trym and similar varieties are infected by virus. Trym has a strain of Cucumber Mosaic Virus and a Poty Virus. Trymlet and South Hayes are infected with CMV only. I am sure it is this strain of CMV which confers the outer petal markings to these varieties. It seems that the virus may not be evenly distributed
throughout the bulb tissue, so that there may be sections of the bulb which have greatly reduced or no virus present in some chips, thus, a proportion of the progeny will "revert" to a non coloured outer petal.
No virus has been found in Wendys Gold, or in any ordinary yellow variety so far tested.
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Ah, Rollo, good to have you reappear with your specialist knowledge..... thanks!
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Trym and similar varieties are infected by virus. Trym has a strain of Cucumber Mosaic Virus and a Poty Virus. Trymlet and South Hayes are infected with CMV only....
That's very interesting, Rollo, do you have a reference to the source publication for this information? I would like to read up on this work.
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Trym and similar varieties are infected by virus. Trym has a strain of Cucumber Mosaic Virus and a Poty Virus. Trymlet and South Hayes are infected with CMV only. I am sure it is this strain of CMV which confers the outer petal markings to these varieties. It seems that the virus may not be evenly distributed
throughout the bulb tissue, so that there may be sections of the bulb which have greatly reduced or no virus present in some chips, thus, a proportion of the progeny will "revert" to a non coloured outer petal.
No virus has been found in Wendys Gold, or in any ordinary yellow variety so far tested.
Oh, dear - that's rather alarming. I'd like to read up on that too, it sounds interesting.
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Excellent information, thanks Rollo. Richard Hobbs has always said that to me, but I haven't seen it in print before.
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There is nothing in print as such as this is something I have been doing for a few years with a virologist from the Central Science Laboratory at York ( now part of the Food and Environment Research Agency -FERA). Please see a letter I sent a few years ago.
" First, many thanks again, for your generosity in sending me the snowdrops Trym, Trymlet and South Hayes. They have settled in well and strong eager noses are appearing.
As promised, I did send small leaf samples of each variety, together with Gerald Parker (which has leaf stripes ) and Clare Blakeway Phillips ( which is known to be virus infected, but flowers well ) of my own, to be assessed for any viruses at the Central Science Laboratory, near York .
I must admit the results came as a bit of a surprise as I had expected your varieties to be clear ( they look healthy with no symptoms ) and my two varieties to have virus confirmed.
However all 5 varieties are infected with Cucumber Mosaic Virus, and Gerald Parker, Clare B.P. and Trym are also infected with Potyviruses. CSL did further work and sequenced the DNA of the potyviruses found in Gerald Parker and Clare B.P. .
Again the results were a surprise. The virus in Gerald Parker was a previously undescribed , new to science, virus (in the potyvirus complex), which has been given a proposed name of “Snowdrop Virus Y” (SnVY).
The potyvirus in Clare Blakeway Phillips has been identified as “Ornithogalum Mosaic Virus “.
Unfortunately the potyvirus in Trym could not be amplified for sequencing.
Where to begin ?
Potyviruses belong to a large family of viruses which includes PotatoVirusY which is damaging on Solanaceous plant crops e.g. Potatoes, Tobacco etc. It can sometimes be seen to good effect? on small Brugsmania (Datura) plants in Garden Centres.
There are many (100s) different strains, some mild, some severe, which have varying degrees of severity on the host plant.
Narcissus Leaf Stripe Virus and Tulip Breaking Virus belongs to this group .
Potyvirus transmission is mostly by aphids or other sap sucking insects (Nematode -Ditylenchus dipsaci- transmission is theoretically possible), by sap transmission, vegetative propagation, e.g.twin scaling and natural division.
Potyviruses do not survive in dead leaves or other host debris. They do not survive long in vectors e.g. aphids or nematodes.
Transmission by true seed is possible but not all strains are .
Interestingly, in recent years, wild collected Ornithogalum plants grown in Holland were showing virus symptoms and were found to be infected with OMV. The wild population they were taken from was tested and also found to be infected with the virus, showing this is a latent virus which only shows up when the plants are under stress.
Cucumber Mosaic Virus.
CMV has the widest host range of any virus in the world.
Many hundreds of strains exist, again some mild and some severe, some of which can cause colour break on the flowers of the host.
It is spread by many different aphid species and many common weeds e.g. Fat Hen can act as a reservoir.
Transmission is by sap (aphids) and vegetative propagation (natural division and twin scaling ). Some strains can be transmitted by true seed.
Again, I suspect that all the varieties tested may not be infected by the same strain of CMV.
So, as you can see, a virus is not just a virus. It is a classic case of “ the more you learn, the more you realise how little you know “ !!
With modern diagnostic techniques for viruses, electron microscopes, DNA sequencing, ELISA etc, there is a lot of work going on and it seems to get more complex by the day !
It is dangerous to make an assumption of the basis of testing 5 varieties, but I suspect there may be many more virus infected varieties that do not exhibit any symptom, than most people realise.
Only by virus indexing a major collection would we know for sure.
Possibly only wild collected and true species may be free from virus.
There is a nice PhD project for someone!
What to do ?
Don’t panic!
I suspect this has been with us for a long time. When you think how old many varieties are, e.g S.Arnott and Magnet, and how many cycles of vegetative propagation they have been through, it is difficult to believe they are all totally virus free.
Twin scaling techniques must play a big part in possible virus transmission.
Scrupulous hygiene (to medical standards) must be observed between varieties, and a batch of sterilant/fungicide must be used for one variety only, during twin scaling.
It may be beneficial to wash seed in a mild acid (acid extraction) and then soak the seed in a weak solution of bleach before sowing. This would lessen the possibility of transmission of virus to the seedlings by virus particlesin the pulp adhering to the seed coat.
Extracts of Galanthus have good anti-viral properties and it may be that most strains of virus, esp. the mild strains, are suppressed, allowing infection but not showing any symptom and having little effect on the plant. Thus, as a genus, Galanthus have a good tolerance for virus infection.
Considering how badly herbaceous plants are affected by Potyviruses and CMV, Galanthus spp. and hybrids get off quite lightly.
More questions than answers I am afraid.
I think the best course of action is for growers to remove any plants showing obvious signs of severe virus, e.g. leaf stripes, observe basic hygiene principals in propagation work, enjoy what we have, and not worry too much about the issue, until someone has the opportunity, time, skill and knowledge to sort it all out !!
I hope this is of interest to you.
Regards,"
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fascinating
Maybe your contact could sort out another problem. Does G. Cicely Hall = G. The Whopper
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Most interesting Rollo, war is now waged on Fat Hen.
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Hello Rollo, fantastic information really interesting will read your notes over and over. I have several clumps of G plicatus Wendy's Gold in the garden looks like a fair mix of leaf types will post pictures, cheers Ian the Christie kind.
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If any of my Iris or Crocus display signs of virus I have to date destroyed them! :( :( :(
Given that these viruses are everywhere, is this sensible or not?
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Fascinating - thanks so much for this information, Rollo.
Ron, good question. I've just been round my greenhouses yesterday and taken out every pot of bulbs showing even a slight trace of leaf mottling or stripe. I wonder how many others are harbouring it without symptoms. Should we worry? I do have a lot of spare space in my plunges now!
I hope to keep my seedlings clear, though.
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Seems like some hate the effects of the virus and some value it immensely. ??? ??? ???
Personally I try through non 'anti environmental' means to eradicate all pests ( whether foreign or domestic !!) but suspect when it comes to sub microscopic organisms I am fighting a losing battle. Especially when my next door neighbour may be propagating an infected plant, ( and profiting from its mass multiplication/ global marketing!). I burn all CMV infected plants. :-X
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Hello Rollo, fantastic information really interesting will read your notes over and over. I have several clumps of G plicatus Wendy's Gold in the garden looks like a fair mix of leaf types will post pictures, cheers Ian the Christie kind.
Ian, in your pics, Wendy's Gold 3 group looks like Primrose Warburg or Spindlestone Surprise, so you don't have quite as much leaf variation as you thought :)
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Very observant Martin. I was concentrating on the leaves ad didnt notice
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Well I never, I have had this group for quite a while and must now compare it with the other Primrose Warburg don't think it is Spindlestone surprise will have a look at those as well thank you both for keeping me right, cheers Ian the Christie kind.
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Hello again, I went down to look at G Wendy's gold 3 this morning and found a label under the clump which read G Primrose Warburg should always check sorry for confusion, cheers Ian the Christie kind.
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Rollo, it seems to me that you have proven that Trym, Trymlet, South Hayes, Gerald Parker and Claire Blakeway Philips are all infected by Cucumber Mosaic Virus, at least insofar as this pertains to the examples tested. But I cannot follow how you make a link between the virus and the "inverse poculiform" character of the first three. Jo Hynes has a snowdrop called "Wind Turbine" which produces two scapes per bulb. The first scape has makings similar to South Hayes but the second scape generally does not. I cannot see how this behaviour would fit with a virus theory.
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Alan,
The description of "Wind Turbine" is unusual and intriguing. As mentioned in a previous post,it would seem that the Cucumber Mosaic Virus in these "inverse poculiform" varieties may not be evenly distributed
throughout the bulb. This is evidenced by the production, after micro-chipping, of "reverted" types on a percentage of the progeny. The comments in another topic (Snowdrops in February2012 pg.39 reply574)
regarding "White Hayes" would seem to bear this out. "White Hayes" has CMV present, but not in sufficient quantities to produce a symptom. The "inverse poculiform" will not be seen until the virus has built up enough to show the effect. Virus symptoms usually appear when the plant is under stress for whatever reason. This will vary between varieties and species.
Galanthus, as a genus, has very strong anti viral properties and extracts have been used against both human and animal viruses. I don't know if these substances kill the virus in the plant or suppress them, but as in most plants the symptom expression is directly related to the amount of virus present. Thus a plant that is growing well can keep ahead of the virus and show no symptom but when growing slowly under stress the virus can multiply more quickly and show an effect. In the case of "White Hayes", I would expect a plant in good growing conditions to remain "normal", whereas a plant growing in less than optimal condition to assume the "inverse poculiform" markings sooner.
I have spent a working lifetime chasing and dealing with new and exotic pests and diseases of plants. The one thing they have in common is that none have read the same books as the so-called experts.
Snowdrop viruses are no different. The result being is that often the unexpected/unexplained occurs when conventional wisdom says it should not happen.
Back to "Wind Turbine", I would suspect this variety has a strain of CMV. If I am correct in thinking the virus is not evenly distributed within a bulb,this is exactly what I would expect.The second scape may be from a part of the bulb with fewer virus particles. I would predict that the second scape will show "reverse poculiform" characteristics in the future.
Virtually nothing is known or understood about the viruses and symptom expression in Snowdrops. I suppose this is because it is not a commercial crop as Narcissus are.
Nothing seems to make sense.
"Augustus" - big textured flowers - potyvirus, Narcissus Late Season Yellow Virus present.
"Melanie Broughton " - big textured flowers - Virus present - not yet identified.
"S.Arnott" - NLSYV + CMV present - no symptoms, grows and flowers well.
" Diggory" - big textured flowers - no virus present.
"Comet" - green tips (sometimes) on outer petals - CMV present.
"Janquenetta" - green tips on outer petals - CMV present.
"Godfrey Owen" - extra outer petals - CMV present.
" Peter Gatehouse" - streaky green mark on inner petals - CMV present.
" Modern Art" - streaky green on outer petals - Potyvirus present, not yet identified.
" Magnet " - no virus present.
Test kits for CMV are available from www.pocketdiagnostic.com/products/20
They cost £20.10+vat per 4 kits. Given that CMV appears to be the most prevalent virus, some people may think it worthwhile to try the test kits.
I suspect the CMV strain in the "Trym" type varieties is not the same strain as in other CMV infected varieties.
I also suspect that the green tips and or stripes on outer petals are caused by virus.
(edit by maggi to repair web link)
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Thank you, Rollo; I find this all very fascinating. I hope you don't mind my debating with you a little; it's really just a ploy to encourage you into revealing more of your great knowledge in this field.
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Very interesting information.
The link needs editing, should read
http://www.pocketdiagnostic.com/products/20 (http://www.pocketdiagnostic.com/products/20)
not diagnostics
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Thank you Diane, I have repaired Rollo's link. That pocketdiagnostic site will be one of interest to many.
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??? Is it really being said that a number of Galanthus varieties are possibly acting as 'Typhoid Mary' for the CMV? This may have been common knowledge amongst growers for years but it's new ( and bad! ) news for me, :( :(
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Thanks Rollo, very very interesting. I had always assumed that seeds were free of virus infection and therefore any seedlings of the inverse pocs (for instance) would be much less likely to show the same characteristics. However there have been comments elsewhere on the forum suggesting Trym etc are good seeders and produce offspring with similar inverse poc flowers. D you know if the seeds can harbour these viruses?
Thanks
Chris
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Quote from Rollo: "Galanthus, as a genus, has very strong anti viral properties and extracts have been used against both human and animal viruses."
I can vouch for this because last year a lab in the States bought a large quantity of G. nivalis from me to use in HIV and related research.
Carolyn
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Virtually nothing is known or understood about the viruses and symptom expression in Snowdrops. I suppose this is because it is not a commercial crop as Narcissus are.
Rollo - One would think there would be some research on Stagnospora curtisii as it surely must be a big problem on Narcissus crops. We are painfully aware that most Hippeastrum are badly infested. Do you know if any research is being done or if there is any interest in pursuing such?
From a previous post on the Forum:
"Here is a brief excerpt from the following site:
http://www.cabdirect.org/abstracts/20001007697.html (http://www.cabdirect.org/abstracts/20001007697.html)
"Three isolates antagonistic to Stagonospora curtisii on Narcissus sp. were isolated and selected from fields of Zhangzhou Jiuhu. The morphology, cultivation, physiology, biochemistry and DNA base compositions of these isolates were tested for identification. CS5 was characterized as Bacillus subtilis, CS51 as B. cereus and CS121 as Pseudomonas fluorescens. Their DNA base compositions were 43.7%, 39.1% and 66.8%, respectively."
Not sure how to interpret this but B. subtilis is available here as an RTU spray for mildew. Thoughts?
Meanwhile thanks for your very valuable information. Are these viruses easily transmissble by casual contact?
johnw
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Can i ask are all my drops with green outers virus infected then? :-[
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Rollo - do you (or anyone else) know if virus can be transmitted through pollen when cross-pollinating. I worry about this when doing crosses and try to avoid using the pollen of anything that I suspect may carry virus in my breeding programme, but of course you can't always be sure. Also, I assume that a snowdrop infected with a fungal disease like stagonospora curtisii might be able to transmit the disease in its pollen if used for crosses? Or is pollen like seed in that it resists virus (and fungal?) transmission.
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I worry especially about using pollen from older galanthus cultivars to do back-crosses with my best new (presumably virus-free) seedlings in case I infect them.
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Ditto me, re narcissus. ???
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Rollo - do you (or anyone else) know if virus can be transmitted through pollen when cross-pollinating.
Trym is well known for passing on Trym-like characteristics to its progeny. I don't know if it needs to be the seed-parent to do this but if not and it can produce Trym-alikes as the pollen parent then the logic of Rollo's belief must be that is has passed on the virus.
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Rollo - do you (or anyone else) know if virus can be transmitted through pollen when cross-pollinating.
Trym is well known for passing on Trym-like characteristics to its progeny. I don't know if it needs to be the seed-parent to do this but if not and it can produce Trym-alikes as the pollen parent then the logic of Rollo's belief must be that is has passed on the virus.
Alan and Rollo - Is there a chance that Trym's characteristics are not virus-related at all despite it being virus-ridden. Or is there a direct correlation between outer green markings and virus that is thoroughly conclusive. i.e. in layman's terms I think this way - I may have the measles but it has nothing to do with my broken leg.
johnw - +6 and grey
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If it were simply the virus making the Trym-like colouring, would we not expect it to pass to nearby plants by infection, and not simply by breeding? I hope...
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Maybe we should put a Trym amongst our yellows ::)
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I think the answer is yes, Anne.
What virus affects Iris reticulata?
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Crikey,questions questions, I will answer them as best I can.
ronm - Please don't get paranoid by viruses in Snowdrops. Their rate of spread is very slow. It is not the same as the driver of the no.32 bus sneezing and half the town gets flu 2 days later. Viruses have been in Snowdrops for very long time. At present 13 varieties out of 30 tested have been virus infected. The plant seems to be very tolerant of virus compared to other genera e.g. Narcissus, Nerine, Iris etc. In these genera the virus symptom is much more pronounced and therefore more able to have infected plants rogued out.
ChrisD - Only very few viruses can be spread by true seed, incl. pollen. Most, if not all, the Potyviruses
are spread by sap transmission, aphids,leaf hoppers etc. Most of the Cucumber Mosaic Virus strains are also spread by sap transmission, but a few can be seed transmitted ,incl.pollen. It is not known if any of the CMV strains in Snowdrops are seed transmitted. I suspect, if any, they are very few. However, virus particles can be spread by adhering to the out side of the seed, This I think is a much more likely pathway for virus to get into new seelings.
johnw - re-Stagonospora. There is a huge amount of research, worldwide, to find and develop new wide spectum fungicides. The main driver is the market for fungal control of Cereal and other crops worldwide.
Bacillus subtilis -Serenade, which is the QST 713 strain of B.subtilis, is available in the UK for control of Botrytis in soft fruit. I think this is the same strain which is available in North America. I think it controls Glume Blotch (Stagonospora sp.) in wheat in North America, so it may well be worth a try, if available, for Stagonospora control on Snowdrops.
In Europe, Stagonospora on Narcissus is controlled by Azoxystrobin ( sold as Amistar), and is very effective. This is not available to private gardeners but most plant nurseries, estates and farms will have it in their Chemical cabinet.
Viruses are not easily spread by casual contact. It would require the leaf surface to be broken to produce sap and similar in the recipient plant for the virus to be transmitted.
davey1970 - It is impossible to say for sure that all Snowdrops with green on their outer petals are infected with virus. By what I have seen so far, this may be a possibility. Only by testing all or most of these varieties will it be possible to know for sure. 6 out of 7 green tipped varieties, so far tested, have had virus confirmed.
Martin Baxendale - Please see my reply to ChrisD. Although some viruses can be spread by pollen, I would say that Stagonospora cannot be transmitted this way. The only way it might be possible if there were some fungal spores adhering to the outside of the seed coat.
I would suspect that virus spread via pollen not the major source of infection to new seedlings, but strange things can happen in the natural world.
annew - Narcissus have about 15 or so viruses that can cause symptoms, and I don't know the situation regarding virus transmission via pollen on any of them. Probably very few, if any.
johnw - With the current state of knowledge regarding virus in Snowdrops, it may well be a coincidence
that "Trym" and similar varieties are infected with CMV. It is reports of variance in the progeny of micro-chipped bulbs of these varieties that may indicate that it may be more that a coincidence. I don't know, the evidence is there - you decide.
annew - If my suspicions are correct, the quickest way to get a yellow "Trym" or a greentipped "Godfrey Owen", is to exchange as much sap as possible, from one to the other. This could be done by cutting a slice off one or more sides of suitable bulbs and then sticking them together to see what transpires.
mark smyth - re virus in Iris reticulata. Probably one of the Iris mosaic viruses. There are, I think, 3 types.
Mild,severe and something else. None of them have been found in Snowdrops.
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Rollo, thank you very, very much for taking the trouble to give us all such detailed and thorough answers. As a snowdrop breeder (and dabbler with crocus and narcissus) your answers have been very interesting, helpful, and reassuring.
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Amazing stuff RolloP, thank you :). Most interesting, and reassuring that someone is watching :o :o. I'll sleep better in my bed tonight. ;).
But ...... if an aphid sucks on an infected Galanthus, and then on my clean Iris stocksii ( I wish !! ), can it transfer? I think so. Hence my 'Typhoid Mary' reference.
6 out of 7 is up there !
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Renaming this thread to reflect valuable Virus info.
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In last year Wolfgang and I have written anything about Azoxystrobin :
http://www.srgc.org.uk/forum/index.php?topic=6697.msg186134#msg186134
I hope it will find now more interest here ...
Hans
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Hans - There seems to be quite a few formulations of Callaflor Azoxystrobin on the site Wolgang mentioned. Which one do you use and can you tell us how far it goes? I think it said makes 10 litres.
johnw
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John ,
here we have : Saprol ( for hobby gardeners )
http://www.celaflor.de/pilzkrankheiten/produkte/Gemuese-Pilzfrei-Saprol.html
or Ortiva ( for profi gardener )
I use 0,1 % ( = 1 ml for 1 liter )
Today just back from spraying my Galanthus - the temperatur is now 15° ....so it is possible to spray ..under this temperatur it makes no sense because the plants can not use it ( it is a systemic fungicid )
Hans
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Are we drifting somewhat towards fungi now? ???
Not that this information is not valuable ... of course it is.
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Hans J was replying to Rollo's point about the carrying of fungus on pollen, and the use of various chemicals to prevent this.
Since there is a possibility that virus and fungal infections may be transmitted in ways that we may, as yet, not fully understand, there is scope for "cross fertilisation" of these matters, I think. :)
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accepted, :)
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Some wires got crossed here.
Azoxystrobin is a fungicide developed from an antagonistic fungus and is effective as a wide spectrum fungicide which includes Stagonospora on Snowdrop bulbs and foliage.
It may be available for private gardeners on the continent but is only available to professional growers and farmers in the UK.
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Thank you for the information, Rollo. I rather fancy the challenge of doing a Dr Frankenstein and grafting 2 bulbs of, say, Trym and Wendy's Gold together to see what happens.
I need to find a henchman called Igor. Any applicants?
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Well I'd certainly rather dig up Trym and Wendy's Gold than the things Igor had to dig up.
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Thank you for the information, Rollo. I rather fancy the challenge of doing a Dr Frankenstein and grafting 2 bulbs of, say, Trym and Wendy's Gold together to see what happens.
I need to find a henchman called Igor. Any applicants?
Sounds like a fascinating experiment - I will change my name ;D ;D ;D
Igor
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Sorry I meant to say a big thank you Rollo. I think I remain somewhat sceptical that the reason for the green colouring on the outer petals of all the inverse pocs is simply a virus infection, but is a very interesting idea and one that (as you say) woulnt be too difficult to test.
Thanks again. Chris
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RolloP - I would like to thank you as well. This has all been very detailed, informative and thought-provoking.
I just priced Azoxystrobin here, concetration says 50% 1 lb is $1092.00 (£683.39 / €828.59 ) which does several hectares. :o
Heritage
Fungicide
Broad spectrum fungicide for control of plant diseases. Active Ingredient:
Azoxystrobin: methyl (E)-2-{2-[6-(2-cyano- phenoxy)pyrimidin-4-yloxy]phenyl}-3- methoxyacrylate* . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 50%
Other Ingredients: 50%
Total: 100% Contains 0.5 lb. a.i./lb. product *IUPAC
1 pound Net Weight
Product of the U.K.
I'm no chemist nor mathematician so I have to ask how does the one above compare in concentration with the Gemuse Piltzfrei Saprol that Hans uses; its label states - 250 g/l Azoxystrobin. Is that 25% for Saprol for the home owner and 50% for the commercial? ::) This might be very important as labelling says toxic to some apple varieties so one would want to make sure the mix was correct and equal to Hans' 0,1%/ litre.
johnw
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Hans - I meant to ask you do you spray the foliage or do a thorough soil drench with Azoxystrobin?
For stag the best time I presume is as the noses first poke through the soil. ???
johnw
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I found this an interesting read,
http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbslist/2011-July/3umq86gl3dk919ll1qgeajofh0.html#year=2011&month=6&id=ojbn2sc1qgvmilddhui6p0osf5 (http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbslist/2011-July/3umq86gl3dk919ll1qgeajofh0.html#year=2011&month=6&id=ojbn2sc1qgvmilddhui6p0osf5)
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Hans - I meant to ask you do you spray the foliage or do a thorough soil drench with Azoxystrobin?
For stag the best time I presume is as the noses first poke through the soil. ???
johnw
John ,
I spray with Azoxystrobin all plants in pots
When I get new Galanthus so I give all the bulbs in a solution ( also 0,1 % ) for one hour inside - after this I pot the plant and drench it with Azoxystrobin
When first noses poke through the soil it it here to early - or do you have all your snowdrops in a greenhouse ? ( minimum of 15° to use it )
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RolloP - I would like to thank you as well. This has all been very detailed, informative and thought-provoking.
I just priced Azoxystrobin here, concentration says 50% 1 lb is $1092.00 (£683.39 / €828.59 ) which does several hectares. :o
Heritage
Fungicide
Broad spectrum fungicide for control of plant diseases. Active Ingredient:
Azoxystrobin: methyl (E)-2-{2-[6-(2-cyano- phenoxy)pyrimidin-4-yloxy]phenyl}-3- methoxyacrylate* . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 50%
Other Ingredients: 50%
Total: 100% Contains 0.5 lb. a.i./lb. product *IUPAC
1 pound Net Weight
Product of the U.K.
I'm no chemist nor mathematician so I have to ask how does the one above compare in concentration with the Gemuse Piltzfrei Saprol that Hans uses; its label states - 250 g/l Azoxystrobin. Is that 25% for Saprol for the home owner and 50% for the commercial? ::) This might be very important as labelling says toxic to some apple varieties so one would want to make sure the mix was correct and equal to Hans' 0,1%/ litre.
johnw
John - The maths is not too difficult but it is easy to get confused.
A 1% solution (of a solid) is 1g in a total volume of 100mls, so a 25% solution of Saprol is 25g in 100mls (which is obviously the same concentration as 250g/l)
The situation for Azoxystrobin is slightly more difficult. It appears that you are buying 1lb of powder of which 50% is the active ingredient so if you made a 10% solution (10g in a total volume of 100mls) you have a 5% solution of the active ingredient.
The best advice is to follow the instructions on the packaging.
Chris
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Perfect timing!
I just bought Bonide's Infuse granular (not liquid) to use to treat some Stag I've discovered. The chemical is Triophanate-methyl (dimethly cl, 4'-0 phenylenebis [3- thioallophanate]) - (that's a brainfull) - at 2.08%.
It is specifically advertised for bulb, tuber, and corm crops and lawn turf, etc., but only gives rates per acres. I got it because research shows this chemical degrades into carbendazim, which is used by a friend in the UK to treat Stag, but is a chemical off market in the US.
I now see that I have 2.08% solution and can now do the math. Thanks.
The bag does say to test and wait for 5 days on a plant to see if it is harmed. An innocent healthy nivalis will be the lab galanthus.
Jim
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For those interested, please see the the recently published paper regarding "reverse bi-colour breaks in Daffodils being caused by virus". This has long been suspected by Daffodil breeders and this paper seems to confirm the suspicion. It does, a) indicate the amount of work required to confirm such a suspicion, b) how complicated this interaction between plant and viruses can be, and c) how little is understood regarding the mechanism of virus induced colour breaks at a molecular level, work which can only be justified by a high value commercial crop. There may be parallels with "inverse poculiform" types in Snowdrops.
http://www.virologyj.com/content/8/1/412
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Very interesting, Rollo. Fortunately no colour-breaks seen in any of my flowers yet, but I'll be watching like a hawk.