Scottish Rock Garden Club Forum
Cultivation => Cultivation Problems => Topic started by: ian mcenery on February 15, 2012, 07:03:08 PM
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I have been trying to grow this from seed for about five years and each year I have sown a few seeds but my score to date is zero. Today I counted 8 pots with a caspius label and not a sign. Has anyone had any success growing this from seed and how did you do it? I have sown a couple of hundred pots of crocus seed using the deep sowing technique and over 90% have germinated but this one has beaten me - or rather I may have beaten it. Help :(
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Ian
No success here - but I still have my fingers crossed as seed was from SRGC ;)
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Ian I can only suspect that the seed is not good after being stored as it should come up no problems.
I sow the seed in August and get germination in October but if the seed comes from an exchange and does not get sown until January then you have missed the time window. I would still expect some should germinate the following autumn.
Check these bulb logs.
http://www.srgc.org.uk/bulblog/log2006/251006/log.html
http://www.srgc.org.uk/bulblog/log2007/170707/log.html
Remind me later in the year and if I get a good seed set I will send you some fresh seed.
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Ian,
I've the same problem with C. veluchensis seed. No success ytd.
I've sown C. caspius seed in autuum half mesh pot deep and bog down the pot completely in my garden.
Soil is a mix of 50% pure coarse sand with 50% compost.
The seed did not germinate in the 1st. year but in the second.
The seedlings grow in full shadow and soil never dries out.
Leaves appear in late autuum and have survived the last two winters unprotected at low temperatures of -18°C.
They are in the 3rd. year and the largest seedlings still show only 2 leaves, no flowers yet.
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Ian - I cannot claim great success. In Dec. 2006 I sowed about 10 seeds from Archibald. In Autumn 2008 3 germinated; none have germinated since. I now have 2 plants, 1 of which looks as though it may possibly flower next year. They have been (& will be) kept in an open sand plunge all year round apart from during periods of excessive cold. It may be easier from fresh seed.
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I got seeds of crocus caspius from the Crocus Group rather late in September 2008 and sowed them at once. No seeds germinated in spring but two germinated in the autumn 2009. I have noticed that the pattern is the same with most of the crocus seeds that I sow in late september which I guess confirms what Ian Young says about the time window. I think that our autumn normally is much colder than in Britain. I try to keep the seed pots in dryish conditons during the summer months until the autumn as I have got the impression that the seeds may be destroyed if they are kept to wet.
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Ian, I am basically in agreement with Ian Young. I have raised this one from seed several times and not noticed it as being impossible. BUT I have noticed it has a tendency to damp off when young, perhaps in response to freezing combined with excess wet. I once received a decent quantity of wild seed from a contact in Iran. It did very poorly and seemed much more frost tender. None of the seedlings made it to flowering size :'( However given your overall record of success I think poor seed must be a contributory factor.
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Ian I can only suspect that the seed is not good after being stored as it should come up no problems.
I sow the seed in August and get germination in October but if the seed comes from an exchange and does not get sown until January then you have missed the time window. I would still expect some should germinate the following autumn.
Check these bulb logs.
http://www.srgc.org.uk/bulblog/log2006/251006/log.html
http://www.srgc.org.uk/bulblog/log2007/170707/log.html
Remind me later in the year and if I get a good seed set I will send you some fresh seed.
Ian
Thank you I will keep trying. It is of course possible that some of the seedlings did germinate but the last 2 years might well have killed them as they were in plastic pots in a cold frame. Thank you for your kind offer
Ian - I cannot claim great success. In Dec. 2006 I sowed about 10 seeds from Archibald. In Autumn 2008 3 germinated; none have germinated since. I now have 2 plants, 1 of which looks as though it may possibly flower next year. They have been (& will be) kept in an open sand plunge all year round apart from during periods of excessive cold. It may be easier from fresh seed.
Gerry
Thanks. I too had some seed from JJA usually top drawer stuff so I was beginning to wonder if I was doing something wrong. I agree the fresher the seed the more quickly and reliably it germinates
I got seeds of crocus caspius from the Crocus Group rather late in September 2008 and sowed them at once. No seeds germinated in spring but two germinated in the autumn 2009. I have noticed that the pattern is the same with most of the crocus seeds that I sow in late september which I guess confirms what Ian Young says about the time window. I think that our autumn normally is much colder than in Britain. I try to keep the seed pots in dryish conditons during the summer months until the autumn as I have got the impression that the seeds may be destroyed if they are kept to wet.
Lars
Thanks. You may be right about the wet I will bear this in mind. I noticed that ,my pots of non germinated seed were very wet so perhaps I will put them somewhere where they might get a lot less water till next autumn though the damage may well be done
Ian, I am basically in agreement with Ian Young. I have raised this one from seed several times and not noticed it as being impossible. BUT I have noticed it has a tendency to damp off when young, perhaps in response to freezing combined with excess wet. I once received a decent quantity of wild seed from a contact in Iran. It did very poorly and seemed much more frost tender. None of the seedlings made it to flowering size :'( However given your overall record of success I think poor seed must be a contributory factor.
Tony thanks for you comments it may well be that as I said above it was possible that some of the seedlings did germinate but the last 2 years might well have killed them as they were in plastic pots in a cold frame although I usually find that seedlings seem to tolerate cold and wet better that the mature bulbs as I have managed to kill more mature bulbs than seedlings . Will have to be more careful with these. This is a species I have always wanted since first reading Bowles 30 + years ago
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I have only had seed on C. caspius where it grows in the garden, not in my 3 potted groups. The seed pods form and stay well down below the surface so are difficult to collect. You have to dig for them and I've not gathered any to sow in a pot but I do get a bunch of seedlings each year in the ground. Then if I finger dig carefully, most can be lifted out and potted or placed nearby the parents. It's a species which likes a little dampness through the dormant period.
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Lesley , Cr. caspius is one the easiest species in my garden . As it ripens its seedcapsules below ground ,I'm usually too late to collect the seeds . However I,m always delighted to find flowering plants in unexpected places - I blame ants for the distribution . I only grow the No. that Paul and Polly Furse collected and sent me in the 1960s. - colour varies from white to pinkish lilac .
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Can't remember where I got mine originally, I'v had it maybe 15 years and like yours it varies from creamy white to a pale lilac. I haven't had seedlings elsewhere but I do try to collect the seedlings as they appear so that would stop them spreading about. When I've lifted corms I've often found them with a bunch of babies on top among the dead tunics, like Cyclamen coum and neopolitanum seedlings snuggling up to their mother if the pods haven't been removed.
I think it likes the garden because even if the place gets really dry, it's never as dry as a pot would be.
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I think it likes the garden because even if the place gets really dry, it's never as dry as a pot would be.
It certainly detests being hot & dry when dormant. That's how I lost my plants several years ago. I've only just managed to replace them.
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Lesley and Otto
Thanks for the additional info I had in down as tolerating summer moisture but it seems that it may prefer this.
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Ian,
forgot to mention. My seed originated from Otto's C. caspius ;)
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Ian,
forgot to mention. My seed originated from Otto's C. caspius ;)
Hi Armin thanks for the information obviously some good seed or better cultivation
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My best C caspius are nearby to C. banaticus which definitely likes to be moist in summer. Both lots are where I have dwarf rhodos and similar things. I water the rhodos frequently through summer or they don't flower well.
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I have been trying to grow this from seed for about five years and each year I have sown a few seeds but my score to date is zero. Today I counted 8 pots with a caspius label and not a sign. Has anyone had any success growing this from seed and how did you do it? I have sown a couple of hundred pots of crocus seed using the deep sowing technique and over 90% have germinated but this one has beaten me - or rather I may have beaten it. Help :(
Just by way of an update I just thought I would let know that this year 5 of about 10 of my pots of caspius seed have germinated in the last month. Incredibly one of the pots is from 2007 which had been put into a batch of old pots for disposal - a close call. It is amazing how long crocus seed can be viable for. Also I now have corms through the generosity of a forumist who took pity on me and sent me a couple _THANK YOU.
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I'm still waiting for C. caspius - sown in 2006 (JJA seed) - to even look as though they might get to flowering size. They live all year round in an open plunge & I live in hope. Some corms I was given as C. caspius turned out to be C. hadriaticus
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I'm still waiting for C. caspius - sown in 2006 (JJA seed) - to even look as though they might get to flowering size. They live all year round in an open plunge & I live in hope. Some corms I was given as C. caspius turned out to be C. hadriaticus
Gerry once germinated I put all my crocus seedlings under cover as although I find seedlings tend to tougher than mature plant I give them all cover in a cold frame or the greenhouse. According to Mathew this plant from the Caspian area is a low level plant and as the Caspian sea below sea level the plant can be found growing at very low altitude perhaps below sea level.
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Ian - some 10 years ago when I had flowering size C. caspius I found they did much better outside. In fact I lost the lot when I left them under glass during the summer. I was ill at the time so they received no water.
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Here's some hope for you Ian!
I have raised C caspius from seed a few times over the years. Given your record of success with so many other species I'm sure you'll crack it now you have germinations. The plants seen below were from a 2007 sowing. First flower in 2012 I think. This is the first year they have made a display like this. I keep mine dry in summer. This year i tried Paul Cumbletons idea of polystyrene covers over the pots during dormancy to guard against extreme heat. Early yet but initial results suggest that this has improved things.
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Here's some hope for you Ian!
I have raised C caspius from seed a few times over the years. Given your record of success with so many other species I'm sure you'll crack it now you have germinations. The plants seen below were from a 2007 sowing. First flower in 2012 I think. This is the first year they have made a display like this. I keep mine dry in summer. This year i tried Paul Cumbletons idea of polystyrene covers over the pots during dormancy to guard against extreme heat. Early yet but initial results suggest that this has improved things.
Stunning Tony ! Thanks for the idea with the cover , very interesting !
I have 4 seedlings that germinated in the autumn from previous year . Seed came from Gothenburg . They are outside now in a plunge .But I suppose I better put them frostfree when first frost arrives ?
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Here's some hope for you Ian!
I have raised C caspius from seed a few times over the years. Given your record of success with so many other species I'm sure you'll crack it now you have germinations. The plants seen below were from a 2007 sowing. First flower in 2012 I think. This is the first year they have made a display like this. I keep mine dry in summer. This year i tried Paul Cumbletons idea of polystyrene covers over the pots during dormancy to guard against extreme heat. Early yet but initial results suggest that this has improved things.
Lovely group Tony and thanks for that idea of covering the pots. I will give it a try it might work for some other species too though where I grow most of mine they are already in part shade due to my neighbours trees.
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Stunning Tony ! Thanks for the idea with the cover , very interesting !
I have 4 seedlings that germinated in the autumn from previous year . Seed came from Gothenburg . They are outside now in a plunge .But I suppose I better put them frostfree when first frost arrives ?
Frost Free? Well mine are not! It depends on how cold, how long for and especially how wet the soil is/roots are. Mine are in a ground level cold frame, open sides but cover over the top. They have been in the same frame since seed was sown so have come through all the hard winters of recent years. Perhaps the cold would be more severe where you are so you might need to be more cautious?
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Ian - some 10 years ago when I had flowering size C. caspius I found they did much better outside. In fact I lost the lot when I left them under glass during the summer. I was ill at the time so they received no water.
Gerry thanks your experience seems to fit with Tony's experience too. I tend to split my crocuses into three groups for summer cultivation i.e. those that like it dry, those that will tolerate moisture and those that don't like to be dry and may even like it cool in summer such as pelistericus which I water fairly regularly. I know that there are other requirements such as dry and cool and these do not fit perfectly with this either but these are the broad groups I follow though hopefully using a little intuition as necessary. So for the summer perhaps I should store them with cool but not dry brigade