Scottish Rock Garden Club Forum
General Subjects => Alpines => Topic started by: ronm on February 13, 2012, 07:13:47 PM
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I have for many years (on and off ) grown and enjoyed the Genus Pinguicula. For such a varied and interesting alpine plant group it seems to get little coverage in the usual 'alpine / rock garden groups'. At the moment they are probably all asleep, but I hope that those of us who manage this genus can post some comments, pictures, cultural advise, nomenclature updates, etc in 2012. Intriguing and not just the domain of the "schoolkid" or "weird plant freak"!
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Forumist Graham Catlow has shown beautifully grown and presented colonies of P. grandiflora and will hopefully respond :)
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That would be good. Thanks Darren.
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I used to have a gorgeous potful of P. grandiflora, flowering well each year until I let it get too dry. Now I have a mass of very tiny seedlings from Wim Boen in Belgium. Too small for pictures yet, they just have their first glandular leaves and maybe will disappear altogether for winter, in a few months. P. vulgaris hasn't germinated at all yet.
It is interesting that the seedlings sown over grit are doing quite as well or even better than the ones sown on spaghnum. All the pots (5) are standing in a cm of water all the time.
When I had my potful of flowering-size plants, I found the flowering was especially good if, during the autumn, I sprinkled the plants with those tiny black insects which are found on field mushrooms. Don't know what they are called but Pinguiculas just love them. :)
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Could they be Sciarid flies, Lesley? Pings are particularly good at cleaning them up.
I find the best compost for the 'Europeans' is 60/20/20, sand /JI/perlite, sowing the seed on the surface, then standing in water until the surface is wet. I then keep in a unheated shaded propagator until germination. No sphagnum as this tends to overwhelm the seedlings. The young plants grow up with the moss that invariably grows from nowhere on the compost surface, and keep apace with it. When the plants die down to the hibernaculum, the atmosphere needs to be humid and cool. Shaded propagator again. Lid on esp at night. Its very tempting to pull them up at this point to repot in nice new clean looking compost, but I find they resent this although there seems to be no active root gowth. However they may survive this treatment if one has to. This is good for grandiflora , and its ssp. and for vulgaris, macroceras etc. The S.E. USA species are slightly more demanding, and the mexicans are radically different.
Usually seed germinates readily if fresh ( or from a good seed source ).
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I do manage a group of P. grandiflora but have no real experience with seed techniques or nomenclature or anything else.
It started in 2007/8 with a small group in a sink of carnivorous plants that really didn't do well. I don't think we had the summers to get the plants to flower.
The only things that seem to do ok were the Pinguiculas.
So I disbanded the sink and planted up a pan with the Pinguicula. It is a pan with no holes in the base so holds water to ensure the rotting root stump remains damp. I place the pan in the sun during the flowering period and retun it to a semi shaded position for the rest of the year. I never let it dry out and water it quite frequently. It stays outside through the winter. I have scattered the seed onto the surface and last summer noticed quite a lot of seedlings.
The result is in the second photo from 2010.
The first photo is from the sink in 2008.
I have considered trying P. vulgaris but haven't got round to it yet.
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Whatever works Graham! And this obviously does. Wonderfully grown plants. Do you have to do any weeding in the pot, as i would think that the moss and other invaders would soon become overgrown given such a perfect environment. Super grandiflora. You should be able to grow vulgaris, macroceras and their ssp. with the same regime.
Thanks for the advice.
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The best pinguicula we have seen in the Picos de Europa.
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I like the log approach. Very appealling. Must try something similar.
I have grown P. grandiflora for many years, usually frost free so I can grow it with less hardy insectiverous plants. If you sow the seed of P. g. immediately it is ripe on sterile peat/sand mix you will have dozens (100's?) from each pod. They are very easy. Just keep it wet, with rain or naturally soft water. They overwinter as pinpricks at that age but once they start in the spring you can prick out, very carefully. Mine usually start flowering the 3rd or 4th growing season. In a flat topped pot I use small pieces of slate to keep the moss down, like crazy paving, planting in between. You often gets lots of small offsets at the base of adult plants at the end of the season and can use them as seedlings. This saves you a year on growing from seed.
I have had seed from exchanges several times, grandiflora and alpina. the only result has been 1 grandiflora plant supposedly from the Burren (originally). Never had alpina germinate. Guess they need to be fresh.
Brian
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That's a wonderful photo Cliff. My pot was like that at one stage. :'(
The AGS trip to Greece in 1993 saw P. ?balcana or a name like that in flower. Quite similar I think to grandiflora. I also saw Pings in Northumberland near those awful white things and on Snowdon. I guess they would have been vulgaris? I have no wish to try the tropical ones, just these delightful "alpine" species.
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No Ron, they aren't scarid flies. I have them too and they are much larger. The ones I sprinkle when available, are only .5 of a mm in length and much less in width, quite black. They don't seem to fly, only move slowly. We get them on ripe peaches too but they're blown off easily. Too small for me to photograph.
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I grow a lot of cold hardy Pings from various locations in Europe and the US and maybe still Japan. Right now they are under snow and just experienced a blast of minus 24C but Im confident they are all intact.
I can show pictures when spring comes.
I also grow all cold hardy species of Droseras in many locations and some forms of Sarracenias. Only those that can live outside with no exstra heating.
Martin
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P vulgaris is very hardy, Lesley, and common at least. Probably what you saw.
The flowers aren't bad either although not as huge as grandiflora.
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Pinguicula leptoceras.
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Another beauty Cliff, and just as easy to grow as P.grandiflora and P.vulgaris. Again a European species.
I can't think what those flies may be Lesley, possibly what we call 'Thunder flies' here, but not sure ( and certainly don't know their scientific name). Sounds like a perfect nitrogen source however! The plant you saw in Greece would be P.balcanica. It is very similar to these others. It is also variable through its range with some plants not developing any reddish colour to their leaves despite being in full sun.
Agreed Hoy, would be P.vulgaris in Northumberland.
Hi Martin. Maybe only P.ramosa would suffer in those temperatures. But under snow maybe not. looking forward to seeing your pictures. Do you grow the alpine sundews from South America? I think they are some of the most spectacular.
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Pinguicula is one of my favorite genusses (one of the many ::))
Here are some pics of some of the species I grow:
P. corsica
P. dertosensis
P. grandiflora var. rosea
P. grandiflora
P. mundii
They are very easy plants to grow....I grow them outside either on pure peat or on a mix of 50% peat and 50% riversand. I've always sown them on the sand/peat mix or on pure spaghnum!
A very nice site about this genus is "A World of Pinguicula": http://www.pinguicula.org/
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Great plants Wim, and possibly the definitive link! For those keen on the 'alpine' species only, I suggest follow the link and then enter 'virtual visits'. Check out Jurg Steigers dedication to alpines!
Is the P.corsica growing in your collection Wim, or is it a picture from nature. I ask as it seems to be in plenty of water.
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Ron,
it's a picture from my garden, taken a few minutes after a shower, hence the water...normally I keep the peat just moist, but not that wet!
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Understood Wim. Shows what they can deal with though! Thanks for sharing.
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Did you grow all these from seed Wim? I find seed the best way of establishing a colony, do you?
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[quote author=ronm link=topic=8582.msg231871#msg231871
Do you have to do any weeding in the pot, as i would think that the moss and other invaders would soon become overgrown given such a perfect environment.
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Hi, no weeding of the moss it seems to keep itself under control. The odd weed seedling appears but nothing to cause too much trouble.
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Thanks Graham. Your results speak for themselves. Hope I can emulate your growing success with this Genus one day.
Would you share seed through this forum to new members later in the year so they too can enjoy growing your strong Pings?
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Thanks Graham. Your results speak for themselves. Hope I can emulate your growing success with this Genus one day.
Would you share seed through this forum to new members later in the year so they too can enjoy growing your strong Pings?
I can let you have some fresh seed when its ready. I will try to remember, but you may need to remind me.
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Thats a lovely offer Graham. Thank you. If anyone would like fresh seed please PM Graham around March/ April? Is that about right Graham? If there are any species you would like to try Graham let me know and I will organise for you, if I can.
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Flowering in May for me so the seed will probably be ready by June.
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Thanks Graham. Very generous. Hope we can reciprocate with other species.
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Did you grow all these from seed Wim? I find seed the best way of establishing a colony, do you?
Ron,
almost all of them came from seed (except for the pink grandiflora). From seed, for me is the best way to grow them. I think that's a fact with a lot of plants, be it CP's, alpines, bulbs, shade-loving plants...!
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Absolutely agree Wim. Seems they settle in and once established are happy to stay! Getting fresh seed is always the issue for most people. With some Genera its not so vital, but with Pings I think it is, don't you?. That's why I think if we as growers can help others who want to grow this Genus, by providing fresh seed as soon as its ripe to them then all the better for us.
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There are many species of hardy pings offered as seeds. However, not all is fresh which it need to be from these plants. Another way of getting them is from hibernacular which is small buds developed during the cold months. Many plants produces a lot of these and they can be send in envelopes is a little live sphagnummoss. Of the mexican species the succulent winter leafs can be used as propagation material and even send the same way.
I grow the mexican species under artificial light as I think they grow better this way, 5C in winter.
Martin
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Absolutely agree Wim. Seems they settle in and once established are happy to stay! Getting fresh seed is always the issue for most people. With some Genera its not so vital, but with Pings I think it is, don't you?. That's why I think if we as growers can help others who want to grow this Genus, by providing fresh seed as soon as its ripe to them then all the better for us.
Pinguicula is a genus that needs fresh seeds to germinate indeed! Although I've had germination of old seed too, but then it's very eratic.
I'm always willing to share the seeds! Let's see what we can swap in a couple of months!
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Agreed, lets do that Wim.
In the meantime, does anyone have established P.alpina? My mature plants never lived long, seedlings kept going but a few years after flowering .... gone. Course more seedlings would be coming along, but it was still frustrating.
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Further images of Picos de Europa pinguiculas.
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An area renown for its huge swathes of P. grandiflora. These, however, don't look typical P.grandiflora. Not as full in the flower or as 'blousy'. Hard to say from these pics though. Still lovely pics Cliff, thanks for posting.
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Oi! Less of the "blousy", please.... some of us prefer the term "full figured" ;)
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:-X
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That's better! ;)
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Has any Pinguicula ever won an award at any recognised show, ever?
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Has any Pinguicula ever won an award at any recognised show, ever?
I think Graham's pan did rather well in Aberdeen, Ron... will check that out......
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Thank you Maggi. Would be most interesting as these are truly alpine plants in the main, and are , for the rarer species, difficult to grow, but are usually marginalised as 'kids stuff!!'. Wonder what happened in the past to make this true?
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Do you know, I think I was mistaking Graham's pleione in Edinbrigh for his Pinguicula in Aberdeen.... not unusual at my age. :-X :-\
Anyway, some links to some rather smart pans of pingquix at AGS shows....
a couple at Macclesfield in 2007...
http://www.srgc.org.uk/forum/index.php?topic=482.msg11898#msg11898
at the Southport Show 2008 .... not sure if it won a prize....
http://www.srgc.org.uk/forum/index.php?topic=1797.msg45435#msg45435
at the Southport Show 2009 .... again, not sure if it won a prize....
http://www.srgc.org.uk/forum/index.php?topic=3566.msg93511#msg93511
This was Graham's pan at Aberdeen last year....
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There was also this great panful exibited by David and Stella Rankin at the Glasgow show last May.
http://www.srgc.org.uk/forum/index.php?topic=7244.0
Reply3 photo 005
Exhibited in a more traditional way than mine.
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Well remembered, Graham.... and it was part of their three pan class which won an award, I think.
Yes, it did indeed... the Henry Archibald Rose Bowl... see what Sandy Leven says about it ( the pinguicula) here : http://www.srgc.org.uk/shows/glasgow/2011.pdf
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The Henry Archibald Challenge Rose Bowl for 3 pans rock plants distinct genera.
I just happen to have The Rock Garden 128 next to me and a show schedule also.
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Nice one Pings! Now lets see some others of you other than P.grandiflora at the shows.
Thanks for the memories Maggi and Graham.
{Aside} - Maggi, do you read every post and know every link?? Seems scariliy so :o :o :o
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I read every single word, Ron. I must, to see if anyone has had a problem, needs a photo resizing, plant name placed so the search egine can find it, any sort of house-keeping of that nature... it's why my house is filthy! To date: 227020 Posts in 7178 Topics by 1805 members.... and I have read each and every one.
I don't have to remember every link though... my memory gives me hints, but the search facility is a big help. ;) Search button is third from the left at the top of each page... in your case, just below the Ginger Cat!
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I'm still amazed Maggi, I don't think that without that intuition we would have anywhere near the site we currently have....!!!
He is known as 'Cutesy' but sometimes by his alter ego ( as in this pic ) as 'Spike'. He will hug anyone he can until they give up!!
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Thanks, Ron! The fact that I am so involved does give me a unique overview of the whole kit and caboodle -I've been told that I should get out more - but the world is coming right here - it would be so rude not to be ready with the tea and coffee :D ;)
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Although they are never,( maybe too strong, maybe not!! ) seen at any alpine plant show, or discussed in any alpine forum ( see previous statement!!), the majority of Central American Pings are alpine plants I'm sure, certainly not needing any heat here in UK.
e.g. as a start, this travelogue http://www.pinguicula.org/A_world_of_Pinguicula_2/Pages/Postcard_9.htm (http://www.pinguicula.org/A_world_of_Pinguicula_2/Pages/Postcard_9.htm)