Scottish Rock Garden Club Forum
Seedy Subjects! => Grow From Seed => Topic started by: maggiepie on February 08, 2012, 07:46:16 PM
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Would be grateful if someone can give me a clue how to germinate these seeds.
Just received them today.
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Ontario RGs site gives this : http://www.onrockgarden.com/category/genera/acantholimon
And on Alpine-L there is this thread http://mailman.science.uu.nl/pipermail/alpine-l/2008-July/018058.html
there are quite a few posts to follow, which MAY be of help....
Panayoti K. gives more info: http://mailman.science.uu.nl/pipermail/alpine-l/2008-July/018063.html
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Maggi, according to that, the plant rarely sets seed.
Hmmmmm, what I have is very odd looking things, I wonder if they are seeds! :o
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Bob Nold says on that thread that the "tubes" should be about 2mm to be viable..... that's about as much help as there is there about seed... I seem to have sold you a pup, Helen,
sorry!
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Maggi,
Here is a pic of the seeds in case someone recognises them.
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Parachute flowers!
Another link....http://www.kadel.cz/flora/e/kvCard.asp-Id=6314.htm says Germ. 1-3 month, 10-16°C
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Thanks, Maggi.
Will do half in a baggie with vermiculite and leave it in the bedroom.
The temp in there should suit them.
Wish me luck!!
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Good luck? Always, Helen! [attach=1]
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I only have Acantholimon glumaceum but have sown the "seed" several times and never had a thing germinate. I know some do because I've seen the seedlings/plants in at least one other place but all the same I suspect that a lot of what is sent to the exchanges is infertile. I would imagine that someone like Holubec or Pavelka would know for sure what he is selling and that it is good seed. I'd have to say Helen, that yours look much like the died/dried off flowers without seed itself. I hope I'm wrong. Let us know how you get on with it.
Sometimes seed is listed of Carduncellus rhaponticoides. It is never fertile. OK if I'm wrong and someone has germinated it, I'd be very pleased to be wrong. My seed exchange seedlings of Caltha leptosepala (2010) are, in fact, a weedy Draba while Gaultheria sinensis is Dianthus deltoides alba. Can these be genuine mistakes? This year, there is so much seed in the packet of Omphalodes luciliae that again, I'm wondering. It looks smaller too, than my own occasional seed before I lost it altogether.
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I'd have to say Helen, that yours look much like the died off flowers without seed itself. I hope I'm wrong. Let us know how you get on with it.
Sometime seed is listed of Carduncellus rhaponticoides. It is never fertile. OK if I'm wrong and someone has germinated it, I'd be very pleased to be wrong. My seed exchange seedlings of Caltha leptosepala (2010) are, in fact, a weedy Draba while Gaultheria sinensis is Dianthus deltoides alba. Can these be genuine mistakes?
Lesley, I have to say the exact same thing crossed my mind.
Will see if I get lucky. :)
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What you have, Helen, look exactly like what I've received as acantholimon seed from Pavelka and Holubec... it's the dried calyx with (presumably) seed enclosed. (The flower is larger and more highly coloured, sits within the calyx tube and drops off as the flower ages, leaving the calyx to dry on the plant.)
I have not grown your particular species, but have grown a couple others with decent germination (I usually only plant a few seeds, since I have limited room) at room temperature. I couldn't say if yours would respond the same way, but it's worth a try.
I guess I should add that germination occurred in a few days. I've also read that other people have had trouble with acantholimon seed, so I wonder too if it is a lack of fertile seed in some cases?
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Thanks, Lori, that gives me hope.
Will post results :)
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Looks like I had at least one seed ;D ;D ;D
Just found this in the baggie.
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That's great, Helen. I just realized/remembered the other day that I'd requested and received Acantholimon caryophyllaceum ssp. caryophyllaceum from the NARGS seedex too (or at least I'm guessing that might be where you got yours?), and planted them on Feb. 17th. Nothing up yet, but based on your trial here and my previous limited experience with the genus, I'll expect to see them in a few days.
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To add, the one I've had a little trouble with is Acantholimon hedinii. With that one, I had one seedling come up in 5 days at room temperature but it later died. I've reseeded but the contents of the packet are largely chaff, so we'll see how it goes.
Not really related, but it was funny that I ordered seeds of Bukiniczia cabulica from both the SRGC and NARGS seedexes. One packet of seeds appeared to actually be that of Acantholimon, and the other was a chaffy mix of something else. (Or do seeds of Bukiniczia look very much like Acantholimon??) Well, I sowed both packets in the same pot, so if all works out, I think I'll get something very interesting either way! :)
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That's great, Helen. I just realized/remembered the other day that I'd requested and received Acantholimon caryophyllaceum ssp. caryophyllaceum from the NARGS seedex too (or at least I'm guessing that might be where you got yours?), and planted them on Feb. 17th. Nothing up yet, but based on your trial here and my previous limited experience with the genus, I'll expect to see them in a few days.
Yep, that's where I got them, Lori.
Seeds were baggied on 9th Feb. No sign of other germinations as yet.
Good luck with yours.
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Helen, do you put all your larger seeds in little bags? (of what, damp vermiculite or?) I have never thought to do such a thing but I guess our winters are a lot milder than yours. Do you lose many when you put them into pots and at what stage do you do that? That would be my worry if I sowed that way, losing them I mean at the transplant stage. Is your new Acantholimon sdlg ready for a pot yet?
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Lesley, I put ALL my seeds into sandwich sized ziploc baggies with damp vermiculite.
Even do the tiny seeds as well as all my veggie seeds.
Just planted up a few pots of baby hostas from baggies.
The Acantholimon is in a pot already, I wasnt sure if I should wait until it shed the seedcoat.
In the past few weeks I have potted up heaps of geranium seedlings, 3 types of delphiniums, filipendulas, aquilegias, asarina Victoria Falls (only had 2 germinations so far), Maurandya barclayana and some origanums as well as lots of clematis.
For me, I find that picking even tiny seedlings out of vermiculite and potting them up, works best. The tiny roots don't suffer any shock as you pick them out of the vermiculite and they are much tougher than I would have ever believed.
I tend to pot up the seedlings from the tiny seeds when roots are half an inch or more. My losses are mostly because I over/under water them or leave the trays in the sun too long and cook them.
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If you don't mind me commenting, Helen, your method seems to be a variation on a method that is generally attributed to Dr. Norman Deno, an American Professor Emeritus of Chemistry who undertook scientific study of seed germination, and self-published his results with thousands of species in 3 volumes (the first in 1993). His method, more specifically, is to start seeds on moistened, folded paper towel that is enclosed inside a Baggie. This was done in order to save effort, expense and especially, space, while experimenting with seed germination to see what conditions (cold, warm, repeated cycles thereof, etc.) removed germination inhibitors.
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If you don't mind me commenting, Helen, your method seems to be a variation on a method that is generally attributed to Dr. Norman Deno, an American Professor Emeritus of Chemistry who undertook scientific study of seed germination, and self-published his results with thousands of species in 3 volumes (the first in 1993). His method, more specifically, is to start seeds on moistened, folded paper towel that is enclosed inside a Baggie. This was done in order to save effort, expense and especially, space, while experimenting with seed germination to see what conditions (cold, warm, repeated cycles thereof, etc.) removed germination inhibitors.
Don't mind at all, Lori, I started using baggies after reading about the method on GB when I first started playing with clematis seeds.
I got the idea from Alison, who I think got it from Kristl.
It certainly saves space, can fit a lot of baggies into a shoebox, biggest problem comes when those baggies all start to germinate at the same time and you have to pot them up.
Am hoping most of mine will keep until I can use the greenhouse.
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So you would even do something like Shortia or Rhododendron seed that way? or tinier still, orchid seed - just dust really? It must give each variety quite a small window of opportunity to get them out of the bags (sorry, the word baggie is not used here and isn't natural to me) and into pots. At least with potted seed there is a long time in which to "get round to it" and some of mine germinate, grow on and even flower before I get to pot them. Usually they're at least a cm high and with up to 5cms of root. I often have crocuses as an example, flower in their original seed pot.
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So you would even do something like Shortia or Rhododendron seed that way? or tinier still, orchid seed - just dust really? It must give each variety quite a small window of opportunity to get them out of the bags (sorry, the word baggie is not used here and isn't natural to me) and into pots. At least with potted seed there is a long time in which to "get round to it" and some of mine germinate, grow on and even flower before I get to pot them. Usually they're at least a cm high and with up to 5cms of root. I often have crocuses as an example, flower in their original seed pot.
Lesley, I have not seen shortia seed or orchid seed.
I think you're right about the smaller window of time to get them out of the bag, at least with very delicate seedlings but I tend to check those almost every day.
If you don't get them out once they start to leaf up they tend to rot of just fizzle up.
Have had some clematis seeds stay in bags for months after germination and have stems 6 inches long.
One of the best things for me is you can usually find out in a fairly short time if the seeds are viable, in a pot you could tend to it for years hoping that one day something will happen.
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The Acantholimon caryophyllaceum seeds have started to germinate now after 4 days at room temp.
Edit: And with respect to the Bukiniczia cabulica (2 seed packets each containing different a type of seed), the non-
Acantholimon-looking ones have started to sprout after 9 days at room temperature.
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Good news, Lori.
My one and only croaked a week or so after I potted it up.
Nothing else from the baggie.