Scottish Rock Garden Club Forum
General Subjects => General Forum => Topic started by: Maggi Young on February 05, 2012, 10:43:26 PM
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I've had an interesting query from Derek who is researching his family history.
As part of the family's keepsakes are these two lovely gold medals, dated 1895 and 1897, awarded to his Grandfather, by the U & B HS
This is what Derek told me:
" I have 2 gold medals which were won by my grandfather in 1895 and 1897 in the "model flower garden" category of U&B H S. They are hallmarked gold and engraved with his name (D.Muir) so it has clearly been an organisation of some significance in it's time. Google has drawn a blank so far and there is no-one left alive in the family to throw any light or recollection on the subject so I am making no progress in discovering what U&B H S stands for. The attached jpeg files shows an image of the medals.
Whilst it's probably a longshot - are there any of your members whose horticultural knowledge might be able to tell me what these initials (U&B H S) stand for or have a feel for any other direction which might lead to an answer. He was an Estate Gardener around various Scottish Estates for most of his life and also worked in the Doncaster / Yorkshire area for a spell before returning north.
This all relates to family history research and carries a hope that it might unearth an article or photograph in due course. No photographs of him have survived.
If anyone can assist it would be very much appreciated.
With regards and thanks,
Derek "
I think we can safely assume (who said NEVER assume?! :-\) that the H.S. stands for Horticultural Society..... but what about the U & B??
Pictures of the rather fine gold medals attached below... click to enlarge them.....
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I have gleaned from the hall mark on the 1987 medal that is is marked for Charles Edward Soloman who worked in the 1890s in Vyse Street, Birmingham. Hallmark is for 1892.
Since Birmingham is one of the largest centres for both gold and silversmithing, that does not get us very far, interesting though it may be.
A provincial maker would have been handy since it would have narrowed down our search area for U and B..... never mind, I know you folks love a puzzle..... let's see what we can come up with for Derek.
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{something} {something} Horticultural Society.
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Not directly linked (or at least I don't think so), but initial and very random research into Uttoxeter and (various options beginning with 'B') revealed this incredible document that merits reading by anyone with a curious mind.
What will Ullapool and 'B' produce from the cobwebs? ;)
http://www.gutenberg.org/files/14472/14472-h/14472-h.htm
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Options
England : Uckfield, Ulverston, Uppingham, Upton-upon-Severn, Uttoxeter and Uxbridge.
Scotland : Ullapool
Northern Ireland : Ulster and Belfast?
From a Google search:-
'Ulster Museum dates from 1833. Meanwhile a Botanic and Horticultural Society was formed in Belfast in 1827. They created a private botanic garden and the Palm House was built in 1840. The Botanic Garden became a public park in 1895'.
Judging by the quality and original price of the medals I would suspect that this was a 'city' venture rather than a smaller more rural association? I would be tempted to concentrate my searches across the Irish Sea?
Another superb resource discovered by chance:-
http://www.glenravel.com/belfast-timeline.html
Simply click and download these utterly fascinating files.
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If you really start looking for this kind of stuff, your life can be taken over very quickly - as Roger has found out! ??? ::)
And as an Australian website advertised on our telly says, "you don't have to know what you're looking for, you just have to start looking."
Good luck to Derek. They're certainly very nice medals to have among his heirlooms. :)
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Lesley
You are so right - but as Cliff has found you also discover such interesting sites - perfect for the current bad weather
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Might sound daft but many companies sponsored things like this. B.H.S could have been British Home Stores, although not sure how long they have been in business.
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First British Home Store opened inBrixton in 1928.
The list of places in both Scotland and England beginning with the letters U and B is REALLY long.... would take a long time to sort through them all to match nearby places that may have had a combined Horticultural Society.
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First hot clue, from Stan da Prato./.. he is looking into the possibilty that there existed an Uddingston & Bothwell Hort. Soc. :)
Nowadays the two have their own societies but in the past in may have been a joint venture.
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First hot clue, from Stan da Prato./.. he is looking into the possibilty that there existed an Uddingston & Bothwell Hort. Soc. :)
Nowadays the two have their own societies but in the past in may have been a joint venture.
They must have been quite a wealthy Society to award such lovely medals.
John Dower ... eat your heart out ... you could have had a fistful of these! :D
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Of course... the medals were awarded for "a model flower garden" .... Johnny D could be retired to the Bahamas by now!
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Of course... the medals were awarded for "a model flower garden" .... Johhny D could be retired to the Bahamas by now!
Sore point, Maggi ... in fact, Nassau point!!!
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They must have been quite a wealthy Society to award such lovely medals.
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Neither Uddingston or Bothwell was/is short of very posh houses, definite possibility.
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I wonder if Derek has thought of trying the RHS, or if the U & BHS was a Scottish one, the (Royal?) Caledonian Horticultural Society? I imagine both keep archives of past events. Even if the U & BHS was not affiliated to either, D. Muir might have exhibited at one of their shows at sometime in his life. Worth a try?
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Derek has tried the RHS..... waited for a long time but still no reply. Stan is checking the Caley, I think (hope!)
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The Utterly and Butterly Hort. Soc? ;D
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;D ;D
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The Utterly and Butterly Hort. Soc? ;D
Had to discount that straight away, Lesley, as Ranunculus spends all the spare cash on ranunculus seed and so has no money left for gold medals..... not even ones made from the gold foil off sweetie wrappers ::)
Plus, I think he's just a smidgeon too young for the dates.... as far as I know (well, Black Pudding Girl told me) I think he only became UBHS treasurer in 1927. :)
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The Utterly and Butterly Hort. Soc? ;D
Had to discount that straight away, Lesley, as Ranunculus spends all the spare cash on ranunculus seed and so has no money left for gold medals..... not even ones made from the gold foil off sweetie wrappers ::)
Plus, I think he's just a smidgeon too young for the dates.... as far as I know (well, Black Pudding Girl told me) I think he only became UBHS treasurer in 1927. :)
After eleven years as Trip Organiser!!! We relieved Mafeking. (And please don't mention 'spare cash' - walls have ears)!
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Oh well, it was a good try. :D
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Excellent try, Lesley...you weren't to know of his proclivities :-X
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Excellent try, Lesley...you weren't to know of his proclivities :-X
O.K. Who's been talking?
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Excellent try, Lesley...you weren't to know of his proclivities :-X
O.K. Who's been talking?
well, I know Sue's book hasn't been published in New Zealand yet, but the rest of us have read it..... :o 8)
(You do realise that Derek, our questioner, will be reading all this and thinking he's fallen in with a bunch of lunatics? Ah well, I suppose the truthe will out.... :D )
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Excellent try, Lesley...you weren't to know of his proclivities :-X
That bad is it? I don't think I WANT to know. ;D
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I assume that Derek knows where this gentleman was in the 1891 and 1901 Census? The latter perhaps providing a clue unless he had moved on by then as it was only four years later?
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This from Derek:
Some additional background to the various comments - D.Muir = David (Hamilton) Muir born 1879 at Largs, Ayrshire. He is listed in the 1881 census at Largs and in the 1891 census at Skelmorlie (between Largs and Wemyss Bay). Earlier family roots indicate origins variously around Renfrewshire (Greenock and Kilmacolm) and Argyll (including Bute, Islay, possibly Campbelltown). His father Colin has been described as a gardener, carter, ploughman and forrester in different sources and the family is listed back in Largs in the 1901 census (but not David).
David would be a young man of 16-18 when the medals were awarded. His whereabouts after 1891 are presently unestablished until his marraige appears on record at Doncaster in 1903. All occupational references to him are as a gardener. At some point thereafter he has returned north and is believed to have worked on several Irvine Valley estates in East Ayrshire such as Cessnock at Galston, Gowanbank at Newmilns, Lanfine and Kirkland Park in Darvel. The remainder of his life was spent in Darvel until his death.
There is therefore a factual gap from 1891 after which time he has left home on a journey which took him to a marraige at Doncaster in 1903.
All that aside there's some excellent brainstorming arising from the query. Uddingston and Bothwell is interesting as indeed is the Ulster (and Belfast??) suggestion since the family roots at some point could well have been in sight of the Antrim coast on a clear day.
Thanks to all this far.
Regards,
Derek
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Well in 1901 he appears to be a boarder at 17 Madenia St, Greenock, Renfrewshire aged 21 and a Domestic Gardener. So that would point to it being probably Scottish.
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Just a thought. Could the H.S. stand for highland society rather than horticultural society?
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Just a thought. Could the H.S. stand for highland society rather than horticultural society?
Oh! It might well do.... thanks, Mick. :)
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A quick search came up with the Upper Beeding Horticultural Society, if he got to the South Downs.
Plus I've no idea if they existed in the 1890's.
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Thanks Rob :)
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A long shot but, there is a Uckfield Horticultural Society with a village alongside called Buxted. The UHS has been around for a 100 years or so from historical information online. http://www.udps.co.uk/page101.html
Maybe at one time both "villages" were in the name with Uckfield as the larger of the 2 being named first.
Brian
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More good leads.... ;D
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Friends in Uddingston are still trying to establish if there ever was a joint Uddingston & Bothwell HS but no luck so far - they have however pointed out that in the 1890s-early 1900s there was a society in what is now West Lothian covering Ecclesmachan, Uphall and Broxburn which held shows.
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These forums really are an amazing place. It never ceases to amaze just how much effort people from all over put into helping questioners. I've been the recipient of so many of these (usually IDs) over the years...... but this one is another level entirely.
Thanks everyone for showing again how wonderful this place is!! ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Just thought up another pebble to chuck in the pond. Uddingston & Bellshill?