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Bulbs => Bulbs General => Topic started by: Jupiter on February 01, 2012, 03:30:20 AM

Title: Tropaeolum 2012
Post by: Jupiter on February 01, 2012, 03:30:20 AM: Greetings Tropaeolum enthusiasts everywhere. As I am in the Southern Hemisphere of the globe I will start this thread, in our summer, as there is some activity in the Tropaeolum collection at the moment.

I am in need of some assistance from the Tropaeolum intelligentsia. During a clean out of my nursery recently I threw out some pots which had Tropaeolum seed in them. I know what you're all going to say, be more patient! I should have been. In the container which I use for recycled potting mix I've had two germinations of a mystery Tropaeolum!

Based on their appearance-and what I had sown in those pots- it can only be one of the following species:

T. moritzianum
T. peltophorum
T. smithii
T. tuberosum

I got germinations of T. moritzianum this season and those plants are quite advanced now, producing flower buds.
These do not look quite like those, but I can't be sure.

I have previously grown T. tuberosum, and I don't think these are quite like those either, at this early stage it is very hard to tell.
Title: Re: Tropaeolum 2012
Post by: bulborum on February 01, 2012, 07:20:49 AM: Be patient
and you see when they flower ;D

here the first Tropaeolum is in but
I will post a picture as soon as one opens

Roland
Title: Re: Tropaeolum 2012
Post by: Jean-Patrick AGIER on February 05, 2012, 06:53:09 PM: Hello Jupiter,
You must wait a little for identification and post some pictures when your seedlings have a few more leaves.
I don't think it is Tr Smithii.
I've never seen a Tr Tuberosum seedling. You can ask Emiko ( Dora ) for she had succeeded with this one.
It might well be Tr Peltophorum or Tr Moritzianum. The first 2 "leaves" are crenated in these 2 species. Tr Moritzianum usually has thicker stems than Tr Peltophorum. Tr Peltophorum's stem is often tinted brownish red.
So let's have a look at more aged seedlings for a better accurate identification.
JP
Title: Re: Tropaeolum 2012
Post by: YT on March 07, 2012, 03:05:49 PM: The first flower from seed has just bloomed today :) :) :)
Tropaeolum hookerianum subsp. austropurpureum, ex. A. Flores & J. Watson 11310. from JJA Seeds.
Title: Re: Tropaeolum 2012
Post by: bulborum on March 07, 2012, 04:03:53 PM: Very nice one YT

does this one make tubers ??

Roland
Title: Re: Tropaeolum 2012
Post by: YT on March 08, 2012, 01:16:08 AM: Roland, yes they are. I transplanted about 1cm sized round white tubers last autumn.
Title: Re: Tropaeolum 2012
Post by: bulborum on March 08, 2012, 08:03:48 AM: Perfect

I like the colour
does it grow tall if you use wire mesh

Roland
Title: Re: Tropaeolum 2012
Post by: pehe on March 08, 2012, 08:09:07 AM: Quote from: YT on March 07, 2012, 03:05:49 PM
The first flower from seed has just bloomed today :) :) :)
Tropaeolum hookerianum subsp. austropurpureum, ex. A. Flores & J. Watson 11310. from JJA Seeds.

Well done YT!

My Tropaeolum tricolorum looks great right now.

Poul
Title: Re: Tropaeolum 2012
Post by: YT on March 08, 2012, 03:30:37 PM: Roland, my plants are in a pot and trained to stalks and wire rings now so I'm not sure how tall do they reach if they climb through wire mesh... about 2m ???

Thanks Poul :) Yours are stunning colour combinations :o 8)
Title: Re: Tropaeolum 2012
Post by: bulborum on March 09, 2012, 09:25:54 AM: My Tropaeolum brachyceras is in full bloom
the flowers are tiny
but there are a lot
so a good display
the plant is almost two meter now
growing in mesh-wire

YT maybe we can swap some seeds later this year

Roland
Title: Re: Tropaeolum 2012
Post by: YT on March 09, 2012, 02:51:11 PM: Roland, give me a PM later ;)
Title: Re: Tropaeolum 2012
Post by: Jean-Patrick AGIER on March 11, 2012, 09:02:50 PM: Quote from: bulborum on March 09, 2012, 09:25:54 AM
My Tropaeolum brachyceras is in full bloom
the flowers are tiny
but there are a lot
so a good display
the plant is almost two meter now
growing in mesh-wire

YT maybe we can swap some seeds later this year

Roland

Hello Roland,
Very nice flowers indeed but your plant is a hybrid. Few people have the real Tr Brachyceras. The flowers have SHORT spurs and the calyx is green. Anyway I don't have the real species but I've been looking for it for years.
I assume this is a bit "taxonomic" but forumists may be interested in what they are growing.

By the way, this winter has been catastrophic for me ( I grow my plants on balconies ) and losses are countless. Surprisingly young seedlings have been more frost resistant than tubers. I don't know the reason why... And the Andeans ( though planted in a container ) have stood quite well the average -10°C we've experienced for a fortnight. I think plants have also suffered from lack of water ( -4°C / -5°C during the day with strong sunshine ).
Title: Re: Tropaeolum 2012
Post by: bulborum on March 11, 2012, 09:47:16 PM: Hello Jean-Patrick

good to hear
do you have the name from this hybrid

I bought it from Dix export in Holland as Tr Brachyceras
it slept three years , the bulbs stayed dormant all that time

last autumn suddenly it started growing
the heater broke down in January
and it was one night -6ºC in the poly-tunnel
a few parts from the plant where frozen

R
Title: Re: Tropaeolum 2012
Post by: Jean-Patrick AGIER on March 13, 2012, 10:31:51 PM: Hello Roland,
Unfortunately as it is a hybrid there's no particular name. I think dozens of plants are commonly called Tr Brachyceras but no one ( in the trade ) cares about taxonomy and as for many other plants wrong names are carried on. You can call it Tr Brachyceras hybrid or ssp or ( as I probably wrongly name these plants ) x Brachyceras.
Just take some time to have a look at pictures of Tr Brachyceras flowers on the internet and you'll be really surprised...
JP
Title: Re: Tropaeolum 2012
Post by: bulborum on March 13, 2012, 10:45:37 PM: sounds a good Idea
Tropaeolum x brachyceras is an simple solution
at least it tells people that it isn't a real Tropaeolum brachyceras

R
Title: Re: Tropaeolum 2012
Post by: Jean-Patrick AGIER on March 16, 2012, 10:08:31 PM: Hello,
I've posted before ( 2011 ) about the Geraniaceae Group ( UK ) and one of its publication: the Tropaeolum Newsletter edited by Richard CLIFTON. Issue N°12 is out and offers pictures very kindly sent by John & Anita WATSON. This is an extraordinary gift from these famous botanists. All pictures are originals taken in the wild never published before and botanically discussed by the publisher. There's also a short note from John WATSON about one of its favourites ( Tr ARGENTINUM ).
I can't tell how great it is...
Copies ( £5 each ) can be obtained by contacting the publisher:
Richard CLIFTON
The Geraniaceae Group Administration
5 Tower street
Dover
Kent
CT17 0AJ
ENGLAND

Publications on Tropaeolum are so few. Many enthusiasts might be interested in this one.

JP
Title: Re: Tropaeolum 2012
Post by: ashley on March 17, 2012, 09:21:26 AM: Thanks Jean-Patrick. Unfortunately I haven't got around to joining the Geraniaceae Group yet but must send for it too.
Title: Re: Tropaeolum 2012
Post by: YT on March 28, 2012, 04:23:15 PM: Quote from: YT on March 07, 2012, 03:05:49 PM
The first flower from seed has just bloomed today :) :) :)
Tropaeolum hookerianum subsp. austropurpureum, ex. A. Flores & J. Watson 11310. from JJA Seeds.

Tropaeolum hookerianum subsp. austropurpureum looks full blooming now :)
Title: Re: Tropaeolum 2012
Post by: fleurbleue on March 28, 2012, 05:13:04 PM: Nice pictures ; this Trop. seems very happy with its gardener ;D
Title: Re: Tropaeolum 2012
Post by: YT on March 28, 2012, 05:59:47 PM: Oui, bien sûr! Merci, Nicole ;D
Title: Re: Tropaeolum 2012
Post by: Jean-Patrick AGIER on March 28, 2012, 10:25:01 PM: Quote from: YT on March 28, 2012, 04:23:15 PM
Quote from: YT on March 07, 2012, 03:05:49 PM
The first flower from seed has just bloomed today :) :) :)
Tropaeolum hookerianum subsp. austropurpureum, ex. A. Flores & J. Watson 11310. from JJA Seeds.

Tropaeolum hookerianum subsp. austropurpureum looks full blooming now :)

Wonderful-and well grown-tropaeolum!
Just a botanical comment: this plant has now been raised to species status by John Watson & Anita Flores ( based on DNA studies ). It must be referred to as Tropaeolum AUSTROPURPUREUM.
Title: Re: Tropaeolum 2012
Post by: Paul T on March 29, 2012, 05:31:21 AM: Quote from: YT on March 28, 2012, 04:23:15 PM
Tropaeolum hookerianum subsp. austropurpureum looks full blooming now :)

Tatsuo,

That is such a beautiful colour. Looks very happy to.

Wonderful to see everyone's Tropaeolum. Thanks for posting them.

Jupiter. Did you sort out what your unknown seedlings were?
Title: Re: Tropaeolum 2012
Post by: YT on March 29, 2012, 02:24:07 PM: Thank you, JP! Your latest botanical informations are very helpful. I'll update my label tommorow :)

Paul T, thanks ;) Perhaps your tropaeolums have just started their growing season.
Title: Re: Tropaeolum 2012
Post by: Paul T on March 30, 2012, 11:15:12 AM: Tatsuo,

Not that I'm aware of yet. Probably enough weeds in some of the pots that I would spot them until they were further advanced anyway. ::)
Title: Re: Tropaeolum 2012
Post by: Jean-Patrick AGIER on March 30, 2012, 09:42:31 PM: Hello,
Due to the loss of quite all of my tubers I'm only able to post a few pics from Lyon's BG's collection.
The first ones are of Tr MINUS. This is a forgotten-not to say despised species- but I do love it. The flowers are really nice...The BG has managed to get some seeds which have greminated!
Hope the forumists will like it.
Title: Re: Tropaeolum 2012
Post by: Steven McFarlane on April 05, 2012, 11:50:06 AM: Hi

After the last two awful winters my collection is beginning to recover. I thought that you might like to see a couple of pictures of hybrid plants and one of T. beuthii.

[attachthumb=1]

Hybrid 1
[attachthumb=2]
Hybrid 2
[attachthumb=3]
T. beuthii

Hopefully I will have a few more and will post these in the weeks to come.
Title: Re: Tropaeolum 2012
Post by: bulborum on April 05, 2012, 12:12:44 PM: Nice ones Steven

How do you multiply the hybrids

Roland
Title: Re: Tropaeolum 2012
Post by: Jean-Patrick AGIER on April 07, 2012, 10:13:19 PM: Here is Tr HOOKERIANUM
Title: Re: Tropaeolum 2012
Post by: bulborum on April 07, 2012, 10:46:25 PM: I thought Tropaeolum hookerianum was lila/blue
for me this looks more as T. brachystemon
but I am not a specialist , maybe I am wrong

Roland
Title: Re: Tropaeolum 2012
Post by: Jean-Patrick AGIER on April 10, 2012, 11:12:22 PM: Quote from: bulborum on April 07, 2012, 10:46:25 PM
I thought Tropaeolum hookerianum was lila/blue
for me this looks more as T. brachystemon
but I am not a specialist , maybe I am wrong

Roland

Roland,
There are 2 species quite similar and they've been separated recently:
- Tr HOOKERIANUM which bears yellow flowers
- Tr AUSTROPURPUREUM ( previously known as Tr HOOKERIANUM ssp AUSTROPURPUREUM or Tr LEPIDUM ) which has purple blue flowers ).
JP
Title: Re: Tropaeolum 2012
Post by: bulborum on April 11, 2012, 06:55:17 AM: Thanks JP

I changed it in my computer
maybe later you have a seed left over
I just start with Tropaeolum
very nice family with intriguing flowers

Roland
Title: Re: Tropaeolum 2012
Post by: ChrisB on April 13, 2012, 10:45:56 AM: Just took a picture of my T. tricolor in the greenhouse this morning. Its been flowering now for more than a month and still going strong.
Title: Re: Tropaeolum 2012
Post by: Steven McFarlane on April 13, 2012, 12:52:26 PM: Hi

First another hybrid. This one is clearly close to tricolor but is almost onecolor.

[attachthumb=1]

This is from seeds collected from T. beuthii.

[attachthumb=2]

The final picture is of two seedlings of a summer flowering species (possibly T. smithii) which are a couple of a number which have germinated in the plunge of my unheated greenhouse.

[attachthumb=3]

Steven
Title: Re: Tropaeolum 2012
Post by: Jean-Patrick AGIER on April 13, 2012, 09:53:19 PM: Other pics of LYON's BG's collection:
Tr x TENUIROSTRE
Tr BEUTHII
Title: Re: Tropaeolum 2012
Post by: Paul T on April 14, 2012, 02:04:59 PM: Steven,

Those beuthii hybrids are excellent. Nice range of colours in them. You must be pleased with that colour range.... I certainly would be if they were in my garden. Well done!

The first hybrid, which you mention is like tricolor, reminds me a lot of brachycerus as well..... could it be a hybrid between them?
Title: Re: Tropaeolum 2012
Post by: Jupiter on April 30, 2012, 02:25:23 AM: Hi Paul, how are your Tropaeolums going over there in Canberra? I suppose you're a little behind us with the cooler climate? I have strong shoots emerging from my brachyceras, tricolor and pentaphyllum. Also my T. polyphyllum is up, but a possum decided to bite the top off it! Not happy! I have T. peltophorum about to flower for the first time, I'll post pictures when it opens.

Here's a photograph (studio style) of my T. moritzianum, flowering well at the moment. Seed courtesy of J-P.
Title: Re: Tropaeolum 2012
Post by: bulborum on April 30, 2012, 06:39:14 AM: Hello Jup

your picture from T. moritzianum is stunning
I hope you have seeds later to swap
How tall grows T. moritzianum
does it need climbing support ?

Roland
Title: Re: Tropaeolum 2012
Post by: Jean-Patrick AGIER on April 30, 2012, 10:21:28 PM: Hello,
This is an EXTRAORDINARY event!! A picture of a Tr KINGII in flower has been posted on the AGS website by Jon EVANS. Tr KINGII is an extremely rare Chilean species which has never been on offer for years. I think every Tropaeolum grower on this SRGC forum MUST have a look at this stunning plant. Many thanks to Jon for having shared it with us.
http://www.alpinegardensociety.net/discussion/atshows//AGS+Midland+Show+on+st+April/10907/?page=2 (http://www.alpinegardensociety.net/discussion/atshows//AGS+Midland+Show+on+st+April/10907/?page=2)
Title: Re: Tropaeolum 2012
Post by: bulborum on April 30, 2012, 10:30:39 PM: Thanks Jean-Patrick for sharing
Fantastic pictures

Roland
Title: Re: Tropaeolum 2012
Post by: Maggi Young on April 30, 2012, 11:10:41 PM: Thanks for the link, J-P.
Jon is a good grower as well as a talented photographer.
Title: Re: Tropaeolum 2012
Post by: Jupiter on May 01, 2012, 02:30:24 AM: Roland, yes they are setting seeds which are not ripe yet but I will send you some when they're ready, if you like? Mine came from Jean-Patrick originally, you could ask him also.
Title: Re: Tropaeolum 2012
Post by: bulborum on May 01, 2012, 07:53:41 AM: What I understand
Jean-Patrick lost a lot from his collection
he will correct this if I am wrong

I will be happy if you have some seeds
T. X brachystemon is making seeds here now
and I will have soon the Tropaeolum hookerianum var. hookerianum in flower
the firs flower starts colouring
I hope it's the true species

Roland

(http://i1215.photobucket.com/albums/cc520/bulborum/Tropaeolumhookerianumvarhookerianum_6441.jpg)

(http://i1215.photobucket.com/albums/cc520/bulborum/Tropaeolumhookerianumvarhookerianum_6440.jpg)
Title: Re: Tropaeolum 2012
Post by: bulborum on May 03, 2012, 10:17:47 PM: Tropaeolum hookerianum starts flowering here now
I hope it's the true one
six months from seed to flower
Amazing

Roland
Title: Re: Tropaeolum 2012
Post by: Maggi Young on May 04, 2012, 11:03:54 PM: Quote from: Jean-Patrick AGIER on April 30, 2012, 10:21:28 PM
Hello,
This is an EXTRAORDINARY event!! A picture of a Tr KINGII in flower has been posted on the AGS website by Jon EVANS. Tr KINGII is an extremely rare Chilean species which has never been on offer for years. I think every Tropaeolum grower on this SRGC forum MUST have a look at this stunning plant. Many thanks to Jon for having shared it with us.
http://www.alpinegardensociety.net/discussion/atshows//AGS+Midland+Show+on+st+April/10907/?page=2 (http://www.alpinegardensociety.net/discussion/atshows//AGS+Midland+Show+on+st+April/10907/?page=2)

Jon has posted further photos of his lovely plant :
http://www.alpinegardensociety.net/discussion/atshows//AGS+Midland+Show+on+st+April/10907/?page=7 (http://www.alpinegardensociety.net/discussion/atshows//AGS+Midland+Show+on+st+April/10907/?page=7)
Title: Re: Tropaeolum 2012
Post by: Steven McFarlane on May 05, 2012, 08:51:14 PM: Hi

Having looked at Jon Evans pictures I would agree that it is very attractive but are we sure that it is T. kingii. It does not look like John Watson's pictures of this plant in Herbertia 64. He describes the flower colour as "cream, parchment, greenish to brownish yellow or pale lemon". Jon's flowers just seem far to bright.

Steven
Title: Re: Tropaeolum 2012
Post by: Maggi Young on May 05, 2012, 08:53:00 PM: That's beyond my ken, Steven. I just like the plant..... :)
Title: Re: Tropaeolum 2012
Post by: Jean-Patrick AGIER on May 05, 2012, 10:53:36 PM: Quote from: Steven McFarlane on May 05, 2012, 08:51:14 PM
Hi

Having looked at Jon Evans pictures I would agree that it is very attractive but are we sure that it is T. kingii. It does not look like John Watson's pictures of this plant in Herbertia 64. He describes the flower colour as "cream, parchment, greenish to brownish yellow or pale lemon". Jon's flowers just seem far to bright.

Steven

If you have a close look at the flower shape it matches perfectly Tr KINGII with the typical spur angled upwards. There is no other Chilean which has this very special shape. Yes, the colour is not the one described by John WATSON but we could admit that it is a different clone. I personnally consider this is Tr KINGII.
JP
Title: Re: Tropaeolum 2012
Post by: Steven McFarlane on May 06, 2012, 03:03:28 PM: Hi

You could be right Jean-Patrick. I have only seen pictures of T. kingii with a cream colour ( J. Watson, Fundaion R A Philippi, Cotswold Garden Flowers) but who knows.

These pictures are of a plant grown from my own seed of T. hookerianum hookerianum. It is clearly a hybrid but very pretty.

[attachthumb=1]

the flowers open a light yellow

[attachthumb=2[attach=2]]

but gradually fade to white

Hope that you like them.

Steven
Title: Re: Tropaeolum 2012
Post by: Maggi Young on May 06, 2012, 03:08:14 PM: Very pretty indeed, Steven. Interesting fade colour.
Title: Re: Tropaeolum 2012
Post by: ashley on May 20, 2012, 03:29:31 PM: Tropaeolum tricolor alas now felled by a slug :'(
A hybrid with T. tricolor influence perhaps (x2), from seed kindly given to me by Steven. Flowers open a deep red-brown then fade to a quiet orange.
Title: Re: Tropaeolum 2012
Post by: fleurbleue on May 20, 2012, 06:11:03 PM: I like so much this creamy white Tropaeolum Steven ! ;)
Title: Re: Tropaeolum 2012
Post by: Jean-Patrick AGIER on May 26, 2012, 10:13:58 PM: Hello,
This year I'm very proud to report on wonderful results on Tropaeolum SESSILIFOLIUM.
Following Alberto's advice, the tuber has been planted in a container along with Tr INCISUM & Tr POLYPHYLLUM. It produced more than 50 flowers!
Here are some pics.
JP
Title: Re: Tropaeolum 2012
Post by: bulborum on May 26, 2012, 10:18:23 PM: Fantastic pictures JP

Doe you mean that they flower more rich if you plant them together

Roland
Title: Re: Tropaeolum 2012
Post by: Jean-Patrick AGIER on May 28, 2012, 02:25:04 PM: Quote from: bulborum on May 26, 2012, 10:18:23 PM
Fantastic pictures JP

Doe you mean that they flower more rich if you plant them together

Roland

Hi Roland,
I think they grow and bloom better when deeply planted in a huge container or in an alpine garden. They're hardy as long as they're dug deeply in the ground ( 30cm at least ).
JP
Title: Re: Tropaeolum 2012
Post by: Jean-Patrick AGIER on May 29, 2012, 10:59:00 PM: Hi,
Here's a picture of this year's Tr POLYPHYLLUM in the alpine garden at Lyon's BG. Not the same display as Jozef's but performing better than last year.
JP
Title: Re: Tropaeolum 2012
Post by: bulborum on May 29, 2012, 11:17:07 PM: Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

that are bad memories
they died when I moved to France :( :(
the bad winter with the Christmas storm twelve years ago

Roland
Title: Re: Tropaeolum 2012
Post by: Jean-Patrick AGIER on June 16, 2012, 10:18:14 PM: Following Steven's recent post here's a pic of a hybrid which flowers fade to another hue.Can this phenomenon be considered typical to hybrids?
JP
Title: Re: Tropaeolum 2012
Post by: fermi de Sousa on June 29, 2012, 05:37:34 AM: I already posted these pics to the Southern Hemisphere Thread:
Stephen Ryan's Tropaeolum azureum and T. brachyceras at his nursery on Mt Macedon, Victoria.
cheers
fermi
Title: Re: Tropaeolum 2012
Post by: Jean-Patrick AGIER on July 04, 2012, 10:14:53 PM: Hi Fermi,
These are wonderful pics. The Tr AZUREUM has a stunning color. But, as previously quoted on this topic this isn't the true Tr BRACHYCERAS. Most probably a hybrid close to Tr x TENUIROSTRE ( there's some reddish tint on the calyx ), and the spur is not short.
JP
Title: Re: Tropaeolum 2012
Post by: bulborum on July 04, 2012, 10:26:56 PM: JP

Do you have a picture from the real T. brachyceras

Roland
Title: Re: Tropaeolum 2012
Post by: ashley on July 05, 2012, 11:18:56 AM: Quote from: Jean-Patrick AGIER on July 04, 2012, 10:14:53 PM
... this isn't the true Tr BRACHYCERAS. Most probably a hybrid close to Tr x TENUIROSTRE ( there's some reddish tint on the calyx ), and the spur is not short.

Do you think this (http://www.chileflora.com/Florachilena/PHP4181/drawitem.php?G_FG=1151&G_LANG=E&G_NF=Tropaeolaceae) is mis-identified then Jean-Patrick?
Title: Re: Tropaeolum 2012
Post by: Jean-Patrick AGIER on July 05, 2012, 09:46:23 PM: Hello Ashley and Roland,
I don't have the real species in cultivation but think the pic on the Telos Rare Bulbs web site is quite close to it. Joy BISHOP ( of the AGS ) has diplayed on shows her plant which also seems to match the species' description. And you can find some others by browsing the internet. One of the most important feature is the short spur of the flowers. This has been described by SPARRE in his monography on the genus and can be checked on pictures published by John & Anita WATSON. There's also another source in the CURTIS's BM ( just have a look at Richard WILFORD's paper and the plant drawing ( p 250-254 ).
Of course I think most of the Tr BRACHYCERAS in cultivation are misidentified. Most of them are hybrids.
But this is only a taxonomic discussion. Every Tropaeolum- might it be a hybrid- is well worth growing...
JP
Title: Re: Tropaeolum 2012
Post by: Maggi Young on July 05, 2012, 10:43:54 PM: I was having a look around the Forum to see what plants of T. brachyceras had been shown in the Forum....
Nate Kelso gave a link to this one....
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10150798372929134&set=a.10150798363159134.462437.572524133&type=3&l=e167d2c732&theater (http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10150798372929134&set=a.10150798363159134.462437.572524133&type=3&l=e167d2c732&theater) from the Edinburgh show: I don't know whose plant it is.

These pix from Fermi are from Australia:
http://www.srgc.net/forum/index.php?topic=9156.msg250316#msg250316 (http://www.srgc.net/forum/index.php?topic=9156.msg250316#msg250316) and
http://www.srgc.net/forum/index.php?topic=5963.msg167104#msg167104 (http://www.srgc.net/forum/index.php?topic=5963.msg167104#msg167104)

This from Paul T, also in Australia http://www.srgc.net/forum/index.php?topic=2068.msg53545#msg53545 (http://www.srgc.net/forum/index.php?topic=2068.msg53545#msg53545)

http://www.srgc.net/forum/index.php?topic=5429.msg152667#msg152667 (http://www.srgc.net/forum/index.php?topic=5429.msg152667#msg152667) John Lupton's plant on the show bench in Aberdeen

I thought that there were pix here of Joy Bishop's plant from one of the forumists from an English show... but I can't find it here. There will be some in the AGS website, I expect.
Title: Re: Tropaeolum 2012
Post by: ashley on July 06, 2012, 04:59:40 PM: Thanks Maggi. Most of these look similar to one another but different, except perhaps the last, from the plant on the ChileFlora website.

Thanks for explaining what you meant Jean-Patrick.
I agree that they're all very attractive and well worth trying to grow, but it's nice to know what we're growing too ;D
Title: Re: Tropaeolum 2012
Post by: Jean-Patrick AGIER on July 08, 2012, 10:07:15 PM: Hi Maggi,
Thanks for giving us these links. Should I make some comments?
The plant displayed by Nathan KELSO has quite nothing to do with Tr BRACHYCERAS. The flower shape ( and size ) links it to Tr BEUTHII.
John LUPTON's plant is clearly a hybrid
Paul T's one is more interesting as the flower seems to match the species ( as does the size ) but we have only one shot and the spur isn't well shown. Anyway, in the descriptions the spur is greenish and can be inflated at the midle. The apex is obtuse and may have a little short black appendage ( from SPARRE's publication ).
JP
Title: Re: Tropaeolum 2012
Post by: bulborum on July 08, 2012, 10:09:56 PM: What do you think of Chileflora's picture
for me the spur is long too

Roland
Title: Re: Tropaeolum 2012
Post by: Jean-Patrick AGIER on July 09, 2012, 10:22:56 PM: Roland,
Chile Flora's photos of Tr Brachyceras show a hybrid form. Of course they're quite nice...
And there are also confusions on other tropaeolum species shown on their website ( Tr Leptophyllum for example ). So that you're not really sure of what you get.
JP
Title: Re: Tropaeolum 2012
Post by: bulborum on July 09, 2012, 11:02:51 PM: I thought their seeds where wild collected ???

Roland
Title: Re: Tropaeolum 2012
Post by: Kirsten on July 10, 2012, 09:44:36 AM: Jean-Patrick
I got this as Tropaeolum brachyceras 8 years ago. Is it also a hybrid? The seedlings from the plant all looks exactly like the mother plant.
Title: Re: Tropaeolum 2012
Post by: Stephen Vella on July 10, 2012, 12:28:35 PM: Kristen that's an impressive Tropaeolum and those flowers look amazing :)

cheers
Title: Re: Tropaeolum 2012
Post by: Jean-Patrick AGIER on July 10, 2012, 09:49:45 PM: Kirsten,
What an extraordinary plant!!! But this is a hybrid, very close to Tr X Tenuirostre. The spur is long and thin. Your kind of plant is very commonly seen on pictures on the internet and nurseries websites
Very impressive plant indeed! and you seem to grow some other ones ( There's one Tr Tricolor in the background... ).
JP
Title: Re: Tropaeolum 2012
Post by: Kirsten on July 11, 2012, 11:55:23 AM: Thanks Jean-Patrick. Yes, I do grow some other Tropaeolums, you can see them on my website.
Title: Re: Tropaeolum 2012
Post by: Jean-Patrick AGIER on July 11, 2012, 09:46:53 PM: Roland,
I think the seeds are collected in the wild but the main problem is to identify the species correctly. Tr Brachyceras also grows and hybridizes in the wild ( there are pictures on the website of plants taken in habitat which are "wild" hybrids ). As I previously wrote you can't be sure of what you really get until the first bloom. And you sometimes have wonderful surprises ( seed exchange )...
Title: Re: Tropaeolum 2012
Post by: Jupiter on July 16, 2012, 04:45:41 AM: I agree there is some confusion around the true species type T.brachyceras. Here's a picture of mine, grown from wild collected seed sourced from a private person in Chile.

As you can see the flowers are quite short and dumpy and the spurs are green with no hint of red.
Title: Re: Tropaeolum 2012
Post by: Jean-Patrick AGIER on July 22, 2012, 08:53:36 PM: Hello,
This month I had the incredible surprise of a germination from a Tr ARGENTINUM seed. I remember I've sown some in my PLUMERIA pot more than one year ago. I then decided to sow quite all my seed stock ( 2008, 2009, 2010 & 2011 ) in a big pot. To my great surprise 3 seeds have germinated ( from the 2008 & 2009 batches ). None of all the many others ( sown in separate seed pots in 2011 and early 2012 ) have shown any sign of life. I don't know what triggered germination but one important fact is to be emphasized : seed viability ( considering that they're kept in fridge ) is of at least 4 years. I should advise Tropaeolum growers not to discard ANY seed of this tricky species as they may germinate one day...
JP
Title: Re: Tropaeolum 2012
Post by: bulborum on July 23, 2012, 04:46:41 PM: Congratulations
maybe you have some pictures

The Tropaeolum moritzianum seeds you send are over two :o meter high now
not a single but to see
but it looks promising

Roland
Title: Re: Tropaeolum 2012
Post by: Roma on July 24, 2012, 09:00:29 PM: Jean-Patrick, I found seed in a box in the fridge of Tropaeolum hookerianum ssp. austropurpureum, collected in 2007. I sowed the 4 seeds on July 12th and noticed today that one has germinated. I still have the pot where I sowed a few seeds in June 2007 but none ever germinated. I think I did notice in the past that old seed of Tropaeolum azureum germinated better than fresh.
Title: Re: Tropaeolum 2012
Post by: Jean-Patrick AGIER on July 24, 2012, 10:29:02 PM: Hello Roma,
Your report is also very strange as we might think that fresh new seeds would perform better than old ones. When we get a batch of seeds there's also another problem: are all the seeds viable? One plant might set both. When receiving or harvesting seeds how can we know which ones are infertile and which ones are going to germinate?
Can anybody in this forum give keys to this crucial problem?
JP
Title: Re: Tropaeolum 2012
Post by: fleurbleue on July 25, 2012, 09:52:10 AM: Jean Patrick, I'm used to put old seeds in a glass of water for 24-48 h to check their fertility. Good seeds generally fall down and I discard all floating seeds. But I don't know if it's a good way for Trop. seeds :-\
Title: Re: Tropaeolum 2012
Post by: Jean-Patrick AGIER on July 25, 2012, 09:13:11 PM: Hello Fleur Bleue,
Thank you for your advice. Would it be interesting then to sow both kind of seeds in different pots and check whether the ones which kept floating could finally germinate?
JP
Title: Re: Tropaeolum 2012
Post by: Jupiter on August 13, 2012, 05:02:17 AM: Last year I added T.peltophorum and T.moritzianum to my collection, and surprisingly both look like they are going to persist through winter and continue this season... is this normal for these species? I expected them both to act like annuals.
Title: Re: Tropaeolum 2012
Post by: Jean-Patrick AGIER on August 15, 2012, 09:31:08 PM: Hello Jupiter,
Remember that some plants are considered as annuals. But they're in fact tender perennials. Tr MAJUS for example is grown as an annual and is killed by frosts. It may survive under protection of a cool green house and go on flowering. This might also be the case of Tr PELTOPHORUM & Tr MORITZIANUM.
JP
Title: Re: Tropaeolum 2012
Post by: bulborum on August 15, 2012, 10:49:12 PM: It looks as the Tr MORITZIANUM you send me , soon flowers

Roland
Title: Re: Tropaeolum 2012
Post by: Jean-Patrick AGIER on September 25, 2012, 05:53:19 PM: Hello,
Some new pictures for the Tropaeolum topic: Tropaeolum ARGENTINUM is now flowering on my balcony. It has invaded the small space where it has been sown...
JP
Title: Re: Tropaeolum 2012
Post by: Jean-Patrick AGIER on October 01, 2012, 04:02:31 PM: Hello,
Here are pics of the tropaeolum grown in Lyon's BG ( in a glass house ).
There aren't flowers yet ( a few on Tr ARGENTINUM ).
The plants all have a huge growth and are checked twice a week to prevent them from invading the roof of the glass house.
Title: Re: Tropaeolum 2012
Post by: Jean-Patrick AGIER on October 01, 2012, 04:11:42 PM: Another photo taken on my plant. The flower buds are really extraordinary.
Seeds are beginning to appear as the flowers are much loved by all kind of bees.
JP
Title: Re: Tropaeolum 2012
Post by: Jean-Patrick AGIER on October 06, 2012, 09:56:15 PM: Hi,
I can't resist from posting a few more pics of Tr ARGENTINUM. It is so lovely...
Title: Re: Tropaeolum 2012
Post by: Paul T on October 11, 2012, 02:21:05 AM: Jean-Patrick,

It certainly is lovely, and I don't blame you for showing more pics of it. ;D So very different to any of the Tropaeolums I've seen in person. Thanks so much for the pics.
Title: Re: Tropaeolum 2012
Post by: Jupiter on October 11, 2012, 04:07:57 AM: Hi Paul, have you seen or do you have Tr. peregrinum? I can send you seed if you like.. it's an easy species to grow.
Title: Re: Tropaeolum 2012
Post by: Paul T on October 12, 2012, 05:28:28 AM: Jupiter,

I've seen pics here and other forums, but never in person. I've not had much luck with Trop seeds unfortunately. I did manage to get one brachyceras to germinate years ago and it grew and flowered a few times before succumbing to the last couple of wet years. T. azureum never germinated unfortunately. Not sure whether they're going to work for me, so probably better to give them to a home of someone who'll succeed. ;D
Title: Re: Tropaeolum 2012
Post by: Giles on December 29, 2012, 12:06:32 PM: Curtis's Botanical Magazine Vol 29 (4) (December 2012) is again devoted to Tropaeolum.
This time: minus, majus ,smithii, peregrinum, argentinum.
Individual editions can be bought from Blackwell/Wiley.
Title: Re: Tropaeolum 2012
Post by: Jupiter on February 01, 2013, 03:27:43 AM: Attention all Tropaeolum growers. I am seeking a donors of Trop. speciosum seed and accumulated wisdom regarding germination. I have tried multiple times to germinate T. speciosum and have never had a SINGLE germination... Very frustrating. This year I intend to try seed from some commercial sources as well as a couple from people's private collections, if possible. I'm going to do a range of pre-germination treatments, scarification, soaking in acid to mimic passage through a bird's digestive system, different planting times and various potting media. This is a last ditch attempt to get speciosum going. if anyone has any gems of wisdom to share with me or possibly a few seed, I'd be eternally grateful.
Title: Re: Tropaeolum 2012
Post by: bulborum on February 01, 2013, 04:13:35 PM: They are sold out for the moment
but they sell most wild collected seeds

Roland

http://www.chileflora.com/Florachilena/PHP4181/drawitem.php?G_FG=0169&G_LANG=E&G_NF=&INCLUDESHOPLINK=YES (http://www.chileflora.com/Florachilena/PHP4181/drawitem.php?G_FG=0169&G_LANG=E&G_NF=&INCLUDESHOPLINK=YES)
Title: Re: Tropaeolum 2012
Post by: Jean-Patrick AGIER on February 03, 2013, 09:16:13 PM: Quote from: Jupiter on February 01, 2013, 03:27:43 AM
Attention all Tropaeolum growers. I am seeking a donors of Trop. speciosum seed and accumulated wisdom regarding germination. I have tried multiple times to germinate T. speciosum and have never had a SINGLE germination... Very frustrating. This year I intend to try seed from some commercial sources as well as a couple from people's private collections, if possible. I'm going to do a range of pre-germination treatments, scarification, soaking in acid to mimic passage through a bird's digestive system, different planting times and various potting media. This is a last ditch attempt to get speciosum going. if anyone has any gems of wisdom to share with me or possibly a few seed, I'd be eternally grateful.

Tropaeolum seeds are often tricky to germinate. But this is not the case with Tr SPECIOSUM as long as you get a little patience. Seeds are best sown in Autumn or early winter in pots or in containers ( or directly where they are to germinate ). They must be exposed to cold and often take one year- or more- to germinate. the seedlings usually raise in January / February / March.
There are 3 species which have similar seeds ( Tr SPECIOSUM, Tr CILIATUM & Tr PENTAPHYLLUM ). They have been reclassified in a new group by John WATSON.
Jupiter: all you need is PATIENCE.
JP
Title: Re: Tropaeolum 2012
Post by: Jupiter on February 06, 2013, 04:24:09 AM: Thanks JP. I will try again and be sure not to throw out the baby with the bathwater.
Title: Re: Tropaeolum 2012
Post by: Jean-Patrick AGIER on February 06, 2013, 08:00:05 PM: Jupiter,
You can try these UK seed companies:
- CHILTERN SEEDS :www.chilternseeds.co.uk
- PLANT WORLD: www.plant-world-seeds.com (http://www.plant-world-seeds.com)
JP