Scottish Rock Garden Club Forum
Seedy Subjects! => Grow From Seed => Topic started by: SueStephens on January 28, 2012, 09:14:11 PM
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You are about to be cast away on a desert island... Well, not really a desert - it has a scree bed and a few small rocks and unfortunately, a rather damp climate. You can only take 10 packets of alpine seeds and one luxury item. What would they be?
(sorry if this has been done before but needs must!)
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this thread might help.....http://www.srgc.org.uk/forum/index.php?topic=6895.0
errr.... might not manage ten right off.... :-[
Erinus alpinus - Fairy foxglove
Dianthus deltoides - Maiden pink
Geranium sanguineum - Bloody Cransebill
Helianthemum - the dwarf rockrose
Lapeirousia laxa I think this is now called Anomatheca laxa or even Freesia laxa
Crocus seed
Campanula cochleariifolia
Aubrieta
can my luxury be chocolate?
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Thank you Maggi... Thought you might include a rhododendron though... ???
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You might not be too far off the mark, Sue! But rhodos, though I adore them, do take rather a long time from seed. :( ( that's their only fault!!)
I was going for things that are long lived or give good seed for regrowing and will give fairly speedy coverage and great colours.
If I were going for plants, rather than seed, then dwarf rhodos would certainly be on the list. Quite apart from my personal delight in them anywhere inthe garden, they can give terrific structure and some height to rock beds ... the evergreens are fab for year round interest as well of course. :D
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Do they have to be alpine seeds?
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We had this topic as a panel discussion at VIRAGS (Vancouver Island
Rock and Alpine Garden Society) many years ago, but we were allowed
only one choice.
Mine was alpine strawberry as it fruits for a very long time and grows
quickly from seed so the whole island could be pumping out berries.
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Diane, great choice.
Were they red or white?
I haven't been able to find white ones yet but the red fruit from spring to killer frost here.
Amazing plants.
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Yes Helen, they have to be alpines... But you could always have a non-alpine as a luxury .... :D
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Yes Helen, they have to be alpines... But you could always have a non-alpine as a luxury .... :D
Hmmmm, are there any snails on this island?
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Yes Helen, they have to be alpines... But you could always have a non-alpine as a luxury .... :D
Hmmmm, are there any snails on this island?
Just thinking... Galapagos has giant tortoises....
this island could have giant snails.......... :o
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Just thinking... Galapagos has giant tortoises....
this island could have giant snails.......... :o
Eeek, there go the campanulas!!!
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This island has no animal life at all apart from birds, beneficial insects, bacteria, fungi and the odd lichen.
Sue
(still hoping)
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Yes Helen, they have to be alpines... But you could always have a non-alpine as a luxury .... :D
Hmmmm, are there any snails on this island?
Just thinking... Galapagos has giant tortoises....
this island could have giant snails.......... :o
The Cacti were more gigantic on Galapagos than the tortoises when I visited the archipelago 11 years ago ;) (Sorry, only slides from that trip)
An island with gigantic snails would probably have gigantic snail-eaters too :o :o
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Yes, snails could be a problem. They ate anything I tried to grow
in Sabah (on the island of Borneo). I'd chop them up with a parang
and feed them to the chickens.
I guess I could have eaten them.
So they could be one's protein source on this desert island. We'd
need to be growing a bit of garlic to go with them.
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Yes Helen, they have to be alpines... But you could always have a non-alpine as a luxury .... :D
Hmmmm, are there any snails on this island?
Just thinking... Galapagos has giant tortoises....
this island could have giant snails.......... :o
Hmmm,
Foster's rule (also known as the island effect)....has that affected Great-Britain too? ;D ;D
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So they could be one's protein source on this desert island. We'd
need to be growing a bit of garlic to go with them.
Then we would need a cow so we could have butter to go with the garlic. ;D
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Oh dear... ???
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Don't worry Sue... this is a typical forum digression... they'll get back to the seedlists eventually.... ::)
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I wonder... Since they are only on the starter... Main course and dessert to come yet!!
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No, Sue, we have the dessert - red alpine strawberries. (white ones I
think look unappealing but I've only seen them in pictures)
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No, Sue, we have the dessert - red alpine strawberries. (white ones I
find unappealing)
Unappealing in what way, Diane?
I grew some in Oz, not sure what the variety was but they were wonderful, very creamy and sweet.
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"Christopher Columbus kept hemp seed on board when sailing so he could grow crops in the event of a shipwreck."
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"Christopher Columbus kept hemp seed on board when sailing so he could grow crops in the event of a shipwreck."
Did he smoke it :o ???
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(sorry if this has been done before but needs must!)
Are you ABOUT to be cast away Sue? ???
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"Christopher Columbus kept hemp seed on board when sailing so he could grow crops in the event of a shipwreck."
Did he smoke it :o ???
Sailing ships require a lot of ropes so I guess he was planning to grow his own.
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Yes, but did he smoke it too? Maybe a new defence for those charged with smoking it. "Yes, but if Christopher Columbus could do it.....?
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No Lesley... selfishly, I was hoping to get more suggestions for my own new rock garden (scree with a few rocks and damp climate in the first post) which is at the planning stage.
I tried to bring it back on track... herding cats is easier ::)
Oh gosh, perhaps I shouldn't have said that... now we'll start on cats :o
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Well we could start on cats Sue because I can't find the Pets thread which I know is here somewhere. I'm just waiting until Maggi has had a decent sleep and some breakfast and is back Online. ;D
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Ginger tabby cats are the best! :) having two I may be the wrong person to ask... May I ask why you want to have a multi course meal with cats in your new garden? That is why you started this thread right?
Your description of your garden makes me think of cyclamen, hepaticas, spring ephemirals etc. and maybe some gentians. Pulsatilla could work, though they often like more light I find. Oh and some nice phlox could work. Mini hosta, ferns, oh and bulbs, lots of bulbs....
B
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Thank you Brian.... Thank you, thank you, thank you!
I had all but given up hope!
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Oh Sue,
Don't give up hope! After they get through food, cats, pot..., and somthing tells me salt water iguanas may soon be seen here.the wonderful people of this forum will give you all the answers you could hope for. You just have to get through all the answers you never hoped for... ;D
B
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We don't have alot of shade here in our garden but where we do we grow Pulmonarias, Asarums, some campanulas, galanthus and Hellebores, but some of these may be too big for your garden.
I wonder if Iris gracilipes would be suitable?
cheers
fermi
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I don't think we want to EAT cats do we? too much fur to get stuck in the teeth, and the claws.....! No we just want them to do their thing and scratch and be a pain generally, in someone else's garden.
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Hello Fermi, we only have part shade... Most of it is a south west facing slope. But thank you for your suggestions. I guess I am being a bit lazy by asking for help. I should do my own research but there are so many species that It is hard to know where to start ???
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This was fun and vaguely translates into my list of favourite alpines. I'm assuming the Island has an upland alpine zone otherwise some of these are not going to be happy:
Erythronium revolutum (Kath Dryden’s own desert island plant and I can’t argue)
Primula reidii (My favourite Asiatic alpine)
Pulsatilla vernalis (After 15 years of trying, and gifted seedlings (from ‘good forms’) from numerous individuals, I have still never flowered this. It is my favourite european alpine so this is especially frustrating.)
Eranthis pinnatifida ( I actually don’t much like the yellow ones)
Saxifraga oppositifolia (none of your fancy sax hybrids can touch this at its peak)
Meconopsis delavayi (our garden is totally unsuited to this so perhaps the island will be more amenable )
Daphne petraea (Holubec has listed seed recently)
Narcissus cantabricus ( I struggled to think of which I like most and don’t want to list more than one from a genus)
Gentiana verna (my meadow with the Narcissus and Pulsatilla needs a gentian!)
Cyclamen coum (for flowering reliably at a rubbish time of year!)
Luxury Item : The island must have a curry house or I’m not going!
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I must be getting too practical in my old age: I was thinking of reliable plants that would be good for some cheer in just about any situation, so that the island could feel more like home.
Mind you, if Darren is going to take all his favourites that he has trouble growing at home... then he will achieve the same end. ::)
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These are a first thought of what I couldn't bear to be parted from....
Erythronium japonicum
Fritillaria recurva
Epigaea gaultherioides
Crocus mathewi
Erinus alpinus
Geranium sanguineum
Dactylorhiza hybrids
Corydalis 'Craigton Blue'
Cyclamen purpurascens
Hypericum reptans
and if I'm allowed rhodos...
Rhododendron bureavii
Rhododendron anthopogon 'Annapurna'
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Maggi, why did you ditch the Campanula cochleariifolia?
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I like it, Helen, and it's a good grower... but it doesn't excite me like the "couldn't live without " list
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I like it too, even if it is a bit invasive, I like both colours too, so I will take it off you.
I have cheated a bit with my list
Houstonia carulea
A zillion hardy geraniums
A zillion freesias
A zillion violas
A zillion papaver
A zillion hellebores
Diane's Alpine strawberries
A zillion aquilegias
A zillion galanthus
Campanula cochleariifolia
Hoping the zillions are able to be mixed.
I think with my selection I would have flowers all year.
Luxury item- habanero chillies
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Woohoo!
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I'd like to take Geranium sanguineum too - but especially var striatum (or lancastriense to give it its proper name!!) as a reminder of home.
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I must be getting too practical in my old age: I was thinking of reliable plants that would be good for some cheer in just about any situation, so that the island could feel more like home.
Mind you, if Darren is going to take all his favourites that he has trouble growing at home... then he will achieve the same end. ::)
I was hoping the island would have suitable climatic zones for everrything so I could grow them without having so much trouble. I'd like to relax too. ;)
Mind you - if it were a Balearic island I'd be scrounging Iris seeds from Hans A, sowing them in situ, and then lazing on the beach admiring the view (especially those parts of it wearing bikinis), whilst the seed got on with germinating.
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Sue,
I remember two new gardens that I drove by on my way to work.
There was always something beautiful to see because instead of going
to a garden centre in early spring and stocking up on everything
that was blooming, they bought a couple of plants every few weeks.
I'm not sure how you could manage this as I'm imagining you in an
isolated valley in Wales. Perhaps you could look at Flowers and Foliage
Now and choose one or two of the plants pictured for each month.
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Yes we are in a very isolated valley Diane. But in an hour, I can be at the National Botanic Garden of Wales. Not sure about the size of their alpine collection but I will make a date with myself to go there every month and they do sell plants. I normally only go in August for a birthday treat. I have found it so difficult to find the time in the past - or perhaps that is an excuse. Thank you for the suggestion.
I did have a look in a garden centre today, but their range is extremely limited. I think that I will have to take up Darren and Maggi's suggestion and visit Aberconwy nursery. But it seems as though I will be spoilt for choice there...so I will go with a list. And thanks to this thread, I now have lots of suggestions. I have looked up every single one and I am almost aching... They are so exquisite.
Maggi.. I had no idea that there are orchids that grow in acid soil :D.
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I think you could take any plants you want, regardless of their needs. After all, if it were discs, you could take Mozart AND Madonna. ;D
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Sue - how far do you live from Bob and Rannveig Wallis? I've never seen their garden but they are plantspeople extraordinaire... I did visit Jim and Jenny Archibald's garden several times and when I was able to detach myself from the greenhouses their garden was full of exciting things, even with, or maybe because of, 60" of rain annually. Lots of dwarf rhodos. If I lived in your climate I think I would certainly grow many of these dwarf ericaceous species that Barry Starling is so famous for - beautiful and yet understated flowers and often super autumn colours. Now I'm not sure whether we should move to Scotland or Wales...!
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Sue, the Wallises live in Porthyrhyd, Carmarthen, Wales SA32 8BP ......
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If I lived in your climate I think I would certainly grow many of these dwarf ericaceous species that Barry Starling is so famous for - beautiful and yet understated flowers and often super autumn colours.
I'll second that. Barry was here a couple of years ago and floored us his talks on his lepidote hybrids and the new xPhylliopsis selections. And then there are the Menzesias! We have a few of his hybrids but would love to try them all. They seem well-suited to this climate too.
Maggi - Any tricks with anthopogon, seems difficult to establish here?
I'd do the Petiolaris Primulas, Grandia and lepidote rhodos, shortias and the megaherbs but does it have to be a desert island? Sorry but I never travel light. ;)
johnw
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Maggi - Any tricks with anthopogon, seems difficult to establish here?
John,I follow my usual method with rhodos... plant 'em and hope for the best. Not at all a scientific approach, I'm afraid, but with such a limited space and not enough hours in the day, it's the best I can do. That and the prayers to the great rhododendron god in the sun.
These little guys seem to be reasonably happy here. Have to keep the Tropaeolum speciosum off them and the Arisaemas out of them and give them a fairly sunny spot( this is Aberdeen remember) and a good drink in hot weather.
Must admit they do not flower so well now as they used to. Our changing weather is not to their taste.... I cannot say I blame them. :-\
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... Barry Starling..... And then there are the Menziesias!
Which I haven't seen.... much to my regret. I would love to see what he has achieved with them.
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Have to keep the Arisaemas out of them
So lucky. Reminds me of the Stones complaining the Pyrolas were seeding in their Shortia beds.
johnw
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... Barry Starling..... And then there are the Menziesias!
Which I haven't seen.... much to my regret. I would love to see what he has achieved with them.
Time to have him as a speaker!
johnw
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... Barry Starling..... And then there are the Menziesias!
Which I haven't seen.... much to my regret. I would love to see what he has achieved with them.
Time to have him as a speaker!
johnw
Well ain't that the truth... Ian and I have been saying for ages it is too long since he was up to Scotland...... 8)
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Have to keep the Arisaemas out of them
So lucky. Reminds me of the Stones complaining the Pyrolas were seeding in their Shortia beds.
johnw
Yes... now that is a problem I'd quite like to have....... ::)
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Sue,
Lovely idea, but you must despair of getting ideas about plants. I think most of us would prefer desert island plants, because seeds have problems:
Some plants take a mighty long time from seeds.
Some plants are almost impossible from seed. Though someone will prove us wrong.
Named hybrids will not come true from seed - they might be better but they are usually not quite as good.
My list has seven which are must haves for my garden - and three to dream of.
Of course next year, next week, tomorrow even the list would be different.
1. I would start, like so many with a Pulsatilla - I think the Garden forms of Pulsatilla vulgaris are still the best (Not the ones with highly divided petals either)
two gardens ago I had the standard blue violet form - great; in my last garden the red form P.vulgaris rubra - better, in my current garden white Pulsatilla vulgaris alba - sumptuous.
2. Callianthemum anemonoides - better if you can choose a plant in flower - but most plants from seed are good.
3. I agree with a Geranium - but I think I would choose cinereum - not cinereum subcaulescens though it is a fine but gaudy flower (the MESE form is nice.) - not garden hybrids like Ballerina which are too robust, but the form that grows in the Pyrenees.
4. Eryngium bourgatii - Electic blue, late in the year, with memories from the mountains.
Have to stop now -so the rest will come later. Peter
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Tim, I live about 25 miles from Porthyrhyd, but I hadn't heard of the Wallises - being such a newbie...
Peter, every year I spend far too much money on seeds and many of them come to nothing and every year I tell myself to buy plants instead. But I just cant help myself, I just love seeds. It's as though on Boxing Day a switch is thrown and I go into 'seed mode'. This year I will be sowing about 200 species - I had planned about 100 ... Then I discovered alpines.
Sue
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Sue : sending you a personal message..... :)
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Back with some more Sue;
5. A Silver saxifrage - in fact lots of them; If there was only one it would be Saxifraga callosa; Running it close (as plants not seed) would be a good Southside group plant, or Canis dalmaticus - the spotty dog.
6. A Gentian. For me it would be tempting to choose verna which grows so well in Upper Teesdale; but it always disappoints me in the garden; Gentiana Acaulis is my choice, even though, gardeniong on Limestone I grow it in tubs and pots. Remember to keep plants coming from seed because they seem to flower best when fairly young.
7. A Porphyrion Saxifrage: I notice we have already had the suggestion of Saxifraga oppositifolia, if we are growing from seed that is good. I certainly would enjoy memories of Ingleborough and Pen y Ghent. I have to grow all this group where they get a bit more care because if they dry out at the roots, they burn badly. perhaps as a species to grow from seed I would go for Sax. dinnikii (More care needed!) I grew lots of hybrids and if I could choose named hybrids would probably choose Lismore Carmine though I enjoy very much John Byam-Grounds.
8. A terresrial orchid. I'm getting into fantasy land here - assuming there will be sterile lab. conditions on our Island! Even if I had them, I probably wouldn't manage to grew them from seed. I was tempted to say Epipactis atrorubens, which grows well in a quarry near here ( I do find Epipactis gigantea is a good garden plant) but I would choose Ophrys apifera -I have so many memories - and last year found a colony of about 100 plants within a mile of my house. A week later, Sunderland City Council mowed most of them off.
9. My final two plants would have to be Primulas - I'm not going to choose easy garden plants, though there are plent oflovely ones. First Primula wollastonii - though it would be a better plant if I could keep it for longer.
10. Finally - and now we probably need a Frame or Alpine house unless the Island has a superb climate - You would certainly need to keep it dry in West Wales -would be Primula bracteata. My dream plant would be one of the gorgeous yellow ones which, as far as I know, is not in cultivation. There are some lovely pictures on Pam Eveleigh's Primula World website
I think that gives a few Ideas and a bit of fantasy. Peter
And now a few pictures...
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Beautiful pics and beautiful plants, Peter.
The white pulsatilla is breathtaking.
I thought my P. vernalis was the ant's pants.
Eryngium bourgatii, how big does it get?
Have never seen it before.
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Helen, Glad you liked the pictures , I'll add a few more; Eryngium Bourgatii grows a bit tall - about two foot tall.
Sue -I grow lots of seed too -about 150 batches this year. Seeds are like little miracles. Alpine growers are collectors. You may know Karel Capek's book The Gardener's World.
"The cultivator of a rock garden is not only a gardener, but a collector as well, and that puts him among the serious maniacs."
I admit it, the charge is true.
Peter
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Eryngium bourgatii, how big does it get?
Have never seen it before.
I have a form of it called 'Picos Blue,' grown from seed and comes true. It is very beautiful, a brilliant yet metallic blue, very spiky and about 60cms tall but growing under my oak so gets very dry. The leaves are stunning too, Spiky green, heavily silvered. If I can retrieve some seed, I'll send it but harvesting it could kill me.
Oh golly, Roger has just walked in with a packet of seed from Pilous. Must leave this and open it.
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I have a form of it called 'Picos Blue,' grown from seed and comes true. It is very beautiful, a brilliant yet metallic blue, very spiky and about 60cms tall but growing under my oak so gets very dry. The leaves are stunning too, Spiky green, heavily silvered. If I can retrieve some seed, I'll send it but harvesting it could kill me.
Lesley, much as I would love some I cannot take responsibility for killing you.
I would be driven out of the forum!!!
:( :( :(
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Maybe I could send it with the dog? He has already come into the house a few times covered with bidi-bids, the seeds of the native Acaena species of which we have a patch somewhere. Haven't been able to find it yet but Marley obviously has. ???
The Pilous seed is pure gold but they have held Iris brandzae as not on the Bio Index. Forgot that it is generally accepted now as a subsp of sintenisii. I'll give MAF Brian Mathew's "The Iris" as a reference and they should release it.
26 more packets of seed to sow! ::)
Peter (Hood) - Plants are great and wonderful and quicker but seed holds the future and dreams and hopes and aspirations and the means to share with others and that buzz which only comes (presumably) from having one's addiction fed and nurtured. ;D Seed is better even, than chocolate (YES Maggi) because you don't have a sore stomach when you've had too much of it and it lasts longer. ;D
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I'll give MAF Brian Mathew's "The Iris" as a reference and they should release it.
That's awfully generous of you, Lesley! I just sent our AQIS chap an e-mail with a link to the name changes to allow my with-held AGS seed to be sent to me! ;D
If I knew you had a spare copy of "The Iris" I would've asked for it!
cheers
fermi
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And if I had a spare I would happily have sent it to you Fermi. MAF will have to make do with photocopies I'm afraid. Actually, this book was given to me by my Mt Tomah friend, DS (to whom I must write and at length, he's badly neglected recently.)
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Helen - you should have no trouble with Eryngium bourgatii in a hot dry spot. For me it self-sows really too well... But oh I wish I could grow those beautiful primulas; they should be possible in nice wet South Wales for Sue!
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Thanks for the info, Tim.
I won't mind if it seeds around a little.
The primulas are beautiful for sure.
Imagine if we grew everything we fell in lust with.
;D
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Tim,
Primula bracteata does not want South Wales wet! More like Dionysia conditions, at very least Primula allionii conditions.If you are too dry for Primulas it is just the plant for you. Primula woollastonii dies for most people quite quickly wherever you grow it. I am growing bracteata and have grown woollastonii quite near the North East coast -which is pretty dry. That's why I don't grew Petiolarids for example very often. They should do well in South Wales.
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Peter - thank you! Except for a short spell many years ago I haven't really grown any primulas (except for marginata) because so many are ill-suited to the south-east, and I grow most things out in the garden. I will be strongly tempted to try bracteata and learn more about them in general. David Sampson grew some very well (he had plants from Gerry Mundy?), along with shortias and celmisias, and I never knew how he managed it!
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He certainly made good use of heavily shaded beds under shadecloth. I'll never forget the beds of Shortias, possively glowing with good health, and of course the white Dactylorhizas. ;D
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Quote from: Tim Ingram on February 06, 2012, 02:14:12 PM
I will be strongly tempted to try bracteata
Tim; someone called Peter Hood usually sends seeds of Primula bracteata to the seed exchanges; I usually have a bit more spare because it only ripens about the end of October. Don't all rush, but I might be able to put you on my list for next year - if the plants survive; But I don't think you will get away with them in the open garden.