Scottish Rock Garden Club Forum
Bulbs => Galanthus => Topic started by: steve owen on January 18, 2012, 08:28:12 PM
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Snowdrop varieties - Where Are They Now?
"At least Green Tear is available. There are plenty of varieties in the "Snowdrops" book that are never heard of eleven years after it was published." (Steve Owen 17/1/12)
"Perhaps you should compile a list, Steve, and publish it here if it's not too long. That way we might track a few of them down (though I suspect many are gone for good or, at best, only exist in one person's garden)." (Alan B 17/1/12)
Below is as full a list I can muster of snowdrop varieties listed in Edition 2 of the Snowdrops book that I have never
seen in gardens,
or on a sales table,
or listed on Ebay,
or mentioned in a snowdrops for sale list,
nor ever heard them mentioned on this Forum or in conversations between snowdrop enthusiasts.
Are they figments of our imagination? Doubtless some do exist SOMEWHERE. If any reader (contributor or lurker) knows for sure that a variety exists, please send me a Personal Message off-line. I will then amend the list and re-present it.
Alexandra Amberglow Armistice Day August Barbara Buchanan's Late Barguest Beechwood Beenak Bob Nelson Carina Ceri Roberts Chevrons Crimea Christmas Cheer Crimean Emerald Dame Margot Fonteyn Denton Derwish Diana Broughton Donna Buang Dorothy Lucking Double Top Earliest Elcatus Eleanor's Double Ellen Minnet Ermine Ad Astra Ermine Farm Ermine Lace Ermine Oddity Ermine Ruby Essie Huxley Eva Turner Fairlight Fatty Arbuckle Friedl Genet's Giant Gimli Gladysdale Green Maid Greenpeace Greenshank Halo Hardwick Harlequin Hazeldene Hoddles Creek Ida Maud Ismail Ispahan Joan Weighell Julia Julie July June Karneval Katie Campbell Kersen Kinn McIntosh Krabat Lady Mary Grey Lanarth Light Bulb Limey Linnetts Green Tips Little Joan Long Tall Sally Longfellow L.P.Long L.P.Short Mafangza Maid Marian Margaret Markham Maria Matt-adors Melbourne Missenden Slender Molly Watts Mr Spoons Norm's Late Mystra Oreanda Orwell Greentip Otto Fauser Pat Mackenzie Pelican Peter Pan Phil Bryn Poseidon Powelltown Proliferation Quintet Rabbit Ears Ragamuffin Raveningham Rheingold Robert Berkeley Robin Hall Ron Ginns Rowallane Ruth Ryton Ruth Scissors Shadow Silvia Six Leaves Slim Jim Snocus Snow White's Gnome Squib Squire Burroughs Tuesday's Child Two Eyes Valerie Finnis Wandin Warburton Westburn Wim Yuletide
There are 115 varieties listed - that's 20% of all the varieties listed in Snowdrops. Do YOU know whether a variety still exists?
Steve
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Greenpeace - had "it", flowered it and re-labelled it unknown.
Poseidon - have it, saved in Oregon by Molly G, sent to Canada years ago by Jerry Flintoff, received from a friend.
Snocus - have seen a swath in the early 90's, it should be released in a few more years, start saving.
I think PaulT has Essie Huxley, HansJ mentioned his Eclatus
Cambridge is standing straight again, a stellar day here, +8.9c and sunny.
johnw - +8c, -8c tonight
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Another one that came up earlier this year which likely does still exist but is hard to find is "Hanning's Horror" http://www.snowdropinfo.com/hanning-horror.html
If Matt Bishop doesn't have "Matt-adors" and it's not still in the former Greatorex garden then that one is presumably lost. But perhaps Matt adores it so much that he isn't letting anybody else get one?
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Forgive my cynicism and feel free to shoot me down if you wish, but surely a list such as that above shows the utter stupidity of naming snowdrop cultivars. Undoubtedly there's a good-sized group which are collectable and will stand (or have stood) the test of time but I have no doubt that many people just slap a name onto anything in their garden regardless of whether it's already named as something else, or whether it has any distinguishing - let alone distinguished - feature, in order to say they have a new or different snowdrop. I'd say a rude word here if Maggi would let me away with it. ::)
It's an oddity of the gardener's character that he/she has chosen to give cultivar names to a little plant which is, essentially, just green and white and pretty much the same in all forms. It could perhaps be understandable among, say, crocuses where there is huge variation in colour, shape, markings, flowering time etc. Yet crocus growers have shown some restraint. It doesn't surprise me that the list above probably have faded into oblivion within a very few years. As in music a thousand soloists and groups who blast the airways now will be forgotten forever within 10 years. Bach, Beethoven, Mozart and others will be played and heard so long as there are people on earth.
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I have photos of Greenpeace and Valarie Finnis (Late)
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How about Flight of Fancy? I have been looking out for that for quite some time now,has anyone seen it at all?
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Galanthus 'Wim': http://www.srgc.org.uk/forum/index.php?topic=4907.msg133137#msg133137 ;)
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I've also seen Kinn Mackintosh
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Lesley - No question one could easily pare down one's collection without seeing a noticeable difference afterwards. The rhodo, heuchera, hosta etc worlds are filled with duplicates and weaklings; mercifully they disappear in time. Perfectly good names get used up, with many an offended wife and pet. A rhodo friend of mine used to say a rhodo needed 30 years to prove itself before naming. He died at 94 having sanctioned 5 or 6 names but technically never registered a one himself. Martin will be the one to watch with his good-doer goal.
johnw
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Ah well, I have some of Martin's seed but will eventually just enjoy the plants. Perhaps the only other plant for which such immoderation is shown, is the tall bearded iris, with hundreds being registered every year in the States, Australia, Britain and Europe, perhaps in eastern Europe too and even here but at least they have a wide range of diffrerent colours.
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Whoops, have seen Robin Hall when we visited Primrose Hill. Clump + fellow on the left.
johnw
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And I have two eyes, growing here at the moment
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Perhaps the only other plant for which such immoderation is shown, is the tall bearded iris, with hundreds being registered every year in the States, Australia, Britain and Europe, perhaps in eastern Europe too and even here but at least they have a wide range of diffrerent colours.
I would guess the registered list of rhodo hybrids tops 50,000 at present. Makes the Galanthus namers look moderately immoderate. ;)
johnw
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Rowallane is alive and well.
I used to have Robin Hall but also have an ex Robin Hall. Someone else has another, different, ex Robin Hall.
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I had G. 'Two Eyes' but lost it.
I still have G. 'Kersen'.
Lina.
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Tuesdays Child is still around.
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From your list I once had but have lost Ermine Oddity, Kersen and Linnet Green Tips. I still have Two Eyes. So far as I know, Lady Buchanan's Late and Mr Spoons are still in cultivation.
Presumably snowdrops that don't increase well or which are fussy in their cultivation requirements die out relatively rapidly, which is no bad thing. For example, I had Linnet Green Tips from Basil Smith, who named it from a batch of imported bulbs. He told me when I bought it that it is hard to grow and he was right.
Respectfully I disagree with Lesley Cox. Snowdrops that ought not to have been named will rapidly disappear from circulation because no-one will want to propagate them or sell them. On the other hand, those that survive the competition deserve a name and are really distinct - Mrs McNamara, Wendy's Gold, Diggory, Godfrey Owen, etc.
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I have Fatty Arbuckle and have seen it elsewhere.
No 'Eva Turner' were ever distributed under this name so it does not exist, it was identical to 'Chadwick's Cream'
Ismail was on Colin Mason's list this year but the crop failed so it must exist somewhere
Little Joan I have seen
Poseidon I have
Ragamuffin exists
Raveningham also exists
Squire Burroughs I'm not sure of - it may have seeded out but Cliff Curtis would know
Valerie Finnis I grow the early form
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Excellent, as Donald Rumsfeld said "we have known unknowns". But only a few so far and several of them apparently in Canada. How to we in the UK get to grow Canadian snowdrops, JohnW?
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Steve
I think Snocus will make it across the pond as Al will have the necessary long term documentation of its lineage and cultivation and I assure you plenty of witnesses to back it up.
I spoke to him a year or more ago and he said he'd release it in a "couple" of years. I've been waiting since about 1992 but think he's getting close. ::)
johnw
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Respectfully I disagree with Lesley Cox. Snowdrops that ought not to have been named will rapidly disappear from circulation because no-one will want to propagate them or sell them. On the other hand, those that survive the competition deserve a name and are really distinct - Mrs McNamara, Wendy's Gold, Diggory, Godfrey Owen, etc.
I'm entirely happy that you should disagree with me, but in fact you do the opposite and reinforce my point which was that only the very best survive more than a few years and the mediocre or overly similar vanish without trace.
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someone on here sent me Snow White's Gnome (a long time ago) but it didn't survive more than a year.
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There's been a good response here and in PMs I've received. I'll give it another day or two and then edit and re-present the list.
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I have 'greenpeace' Its flowering now....will pop out today and get a picture ;D
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Two Eyes is definitely alive and well - Wol & Sue were selling it this month - restricted to one per person ;D
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Hi Steve
'Amberglow' I saw in 1 garden a few years ago.
'Fatty Arbuckle' - I have seen in 2 gardens'
'L. P. Short' & 'L. P. Long' - I saw what I wrote down as 'J. P. Long' & 'J. P. Short' at an event last year (Photo here http://www.srgc.org.uk/forum/index.php?topic=6670.msg185423;topicseen#msg185423 )
'Ragamuffin' - I grow
'Snow Whites Gnome' - I am at work right now so can't check in the garden - but I think someone sent me this last year.
'Squire Burroughs' - At work so can't check the description in the book - but took this pic last year ( http://www.srgc.org.uk/forum/index.php?topic=6670.msg189772;topicseen#msg189772 picture number 7 ) that I had forgotten the name of. Something in the back of my brian is telling me it could have been 'Squire Burroughs'
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Something in the back of my brian is telling me it could have been 'Squire Burroughs'
;D
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I'm entirely happy that you should disagree with me, but in fact you do the opposite and reinforce my point which was that only the very best survive more than a few years and the mediocre or overly similar vanish without trace.
Actually, the point you made was about 'the utter stupidity of naming snowdrop varieties' but we'll let that pass. Of course, by definition, only the best will survive the test of time but how exactly are we supposed to predict in advance which these will be? And how are we supposed to discuss them while we are waiting for history to deliver her verdict? Perhaps Lesley has a crystal ball, in which case could I borrow it, especially if it does stock market predictions too? Naming a plant gives its finder pleasure, enables everyone else to enthuse about it (or dismiss it) succinctly and does no harm since, as we agree, indifferent selections will soon disappear into obscurity. There is another problem with showing too much restraint. My friend Margaret Owen gave some good snowdrops provisional names while she assessed them for garden worthiness. When she wanted to name one of them formally - after her daughter Decima McAuley - she was told that this was not permitted under the Code, because the provisional name had already been validly published (in 'Snowdrops').
edit by maggi to sort out a "quotes" muddle :)
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Tom, I've sorted out your "quote" box muddle to show your comment clearly.
My friend Margaret Owen gave some good snowdrops provisional names while she assessed them for garden worthiness. When she wanted to name one of them formally - after her daughter Decima McAuley - she was told that this was not permitted under the Code, because the provisional name had already been validly published (in 'Snowdrops').
That is something that would have made me pretty annoyed. These Codes seem often to lead to bother. :-\
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Maggi,
One thing which bugs me about these rules for naming plants is that even when a genuine mistake is made when the name of a plant is put into print for the first time, this mistake is then considered the valid name. A simple example is someone misspelling a name when it is first published. This, for me, is taking the rule to a ridiculous level.
Paddy
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Yes, like a lot of bureaucracy... these rules seem to lack a good deal of common sense.... that rarest of commodities. :-X
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How about a new term for galanthophiles who name too many snowdrops - 'drop-namers'.
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Might that not be too confusing with those folk who want the (multitudinous) names dropped ? ::)
Those might be the named 'drop droppers, I suppose........ ;)
For sure there are a lot of name dropping 'drop fiends ;) ;D ;D ;D
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How about a new term for galanthophiles who name too many snowdrops - 'drop-namers'.
I thought this was funny; even without the use of smiley faces to convey intended humour.
Maggi, those who want the multitudinous names dropped are, of course, 'name-droppers'.
'Drop droppers' are clumsy people at the sales table!
Oh, and 'name namers' are whistle-blowers - is that all clear now?
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Just to drop names this reminds me of a combined snowdrop and crocus day at Chris Brickell's, and made me think how snowdrops get together - so 'Long Tall Sally' going out with 'Big Boy' and 'Blewbury Tart' with 'Chadwick's Cream'! On 'Rules'; I suppose we only follow them if they seem to make sense - there is no 'Rule' that one has to accept a 'Rule'.
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Just to drop names this reminds me of a combined snowdrop and crocus day at Chris Brickell's
Happy happy memories
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How about a new term for galanthophiles who name too many snowdrops - 'drop-namers'.
I thought this was funny; even without the use of smiley faces to convey intended humour.
Maggi, those who want the multitudinous names dropped are, of course, 'name-droppers'.
'Drop droppers' are clumsy people at the sales table!
Oh, and 'name namers' are whistle-blowers - is that all clear now?
Priceless... I love it! 8)
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Just to drop names this reminds me of a combined snowdrop and crocus day at Chris Brickell's
Happy happy memories
Crocus and the charming Mr and Mrs Brickell.... all one would need for a perfect day. :)
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Mrs Brickell had made a most wonderful lunch - with wine.
She said that if we could make the effort to travel many miles, then the least she could do was provide a modest lunch - nothing modest about the scrumptious lunch - a very happy memory :)
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39 of the 118 varieties I first listed have now come off that list. That doesn't mean that the 39 are readily available; nearly all are desperately difficult to locate and some have only "I think I saw it in a garden somewhere once" provenance. Some are geographically a long way away.
That leaves 79 varieties that non-one has signified they know they exist. Here they are;
Armistice Day August Barguest Beechwood Beenak Bob Nelson Ceri Roberts Crimea Christmas Cheer Crimean Emerald Dame Margot Fonteyn Diana Broughton Donna Buang Earliest Elcatus Eleanor’s Double Ellen Minnet Ermine Lace Ermine Oddity Ermine Ruby Eva Turner Friedl Genet’s Giant Gimli Gladysdale Green Maid Greenshank Halo Hardwick Harlequin Hazeldene Hoddles Creek Ida Maud Ispahan Joan Weighell Julia Julie July June Katie Campbell Krabat Lady Mary Grey Lanarth Light Bulb Limey Linnetts Green Tips Long Tall Sally Longfellow Mafangza Maid Marian Margaret Markham Matt-adors Melbourne Missenden Slender Molly Watts Mr Spoons Norm’s Late Mystra Otto Fauser Pat Mackenzie Pelican Peter Pan Phil Bryn Powelltown Proliferation Quintet Rabbit Ears Robert Berkeley Ron Ginns(not to be confused with Ginns Imperati) Ruth Ryton Ruth Scissors Shadow Silvia Six Leaves Slim Jim Squib Wandin Warburton Westburn Yuletide
79 is still nearly 15% of the named snowdrop universe as listed in the Snowdrops book - still a surprisingly high proportion. Again, if anyone knows of the existence of any of these long-lost snowdrops, please message me, if preferred off-line.
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Steve - A friend in the UK definitely has 'Ryton Ruth'.
Might it not be a good idea to highlight in bold the really important ones or those with very unique characteristics? That way we could all alert our non-forumist galanthophile friends.
johnw - +2c
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I'm a tad annoyed that Pelican isn't around. I wanted to call one of my seedlings, which looks very much like a pelican's bill, that but can't because the name's taken - by a snowdrop that no-one seems to even grow.
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Broughton is the family name of Lord Fairhaven of Anglesey Abbey. He has a snowdrop named after him ("Ailwyn") and I presume another snowdrop, "Jamie Broughton", is named after his son. Perhaps "Diana Broughton" is named after his daughter? Anyway, I presume Diane Broughton originates from a snowdrop found at Anglesey Abbey so they might know if it still exists. Lord Fairhaven himself has a snowdrop collection so he of all people might have Diana Broughton and might be willing to trade. This is all just speculation on my part, however.
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No 'Eva Turner' were ever distributed under this name so it does not exist, it was identical to 'Chadwick's Cream'
I think this got listed in the book at the last minute before they had finished debating whether it was different or not, it was named for the finder's mother so a bit sad that the name was wasted.
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Seems quite ridiculous that these names cannot be re-used for another plant, especially if it can a) be shown to be no longer in existence and b) be properly defined for the future.
After all, there is not even an official Galanthus registry, only what seems a rather ad hoc arrangement by self-appointed guardians...... if we were talking about a change of name for a fully registered Narcissus cultivar, I could see the point, but this is all smoke and mirrors. :P
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Woottens of Wenhaston are advertising Limey.
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Any snowdrop - or anything else - named 'Dame Margot Fonteyn' would have to be very special indeed. There was a story I read years ago about her travelling up in a lift (elevator) in New York and complaining about the persistent rain. The lift man said "Ah but Ma'am, you can dance between the raindrops." I was very privileged to see her dance in what was, I think, the only performance she gave in this country.
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Any snowdrop - or anything else - named 'Dame Margot Fonteyn' would have to be very special indeed. There was a story I read years ago about her travelling up in a lift (elevator) in New York and complaining about the persistent rain. The lift man said "Ah but Ma'am, you can dance between the raindrops." I was very privileged to see her dance in what was, I think, the only performance she gave in this country.
I once had a brief (5 minute) conversation with her over a coffee in a Covent Garden market coffee shop. Thirty years ago. She was luminous.
Martin, if you have a distinctive snowdrop that you want to call "Pelican" and there's no sign of the Pelican in Snowdrops, and you are ready to distribute it, maybe you should just go ahead? Mao Tse Tung said "you don't get given power, you take it".
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Seems quite ridiculous that these names cannot be re-used for another plant, especially if it can a) be shown to be no longer in existence...
You can search and search for something and fail to find it but you can never show that is doesn't exist.
...After all, there is not even an official Galanthus registry....
Don't say that to the Dutch. The problem is that their registry misses-out most named snowdrops.
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Martin, if you have a distinctive snowdrop that you want to call "Pelican" and there's no sign of the Pelican in Snowdrops, and you are ready to distribute it, maybe you should just go ahead? Mao Tse Tung said "you don't get given power, you take it".
I would like to propose the name "Baxendale's Pelican".
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The problem seems to be the "publication" of a name. Once a snowdrop has been identified by a particular name in almost any kind of publication, even a nursery catalogue, or on a website, then the nomenclatural rules seem to demand that forever and a day that must be the name of the plant and no other plant of the same genus can ever bear that name, even in some re-hashed way such as 'Pelican' and 'Baxendales' Pelican'. Then again, who's going to physically stop you? ;D
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You can search and search for something and fail to find it but you can never show that is doesn't exist.
Like the Loch Ness monster. It can't be proved it DOESN'T exist. :)
The general rule for naming when there is not a recognised registering body, is that the plant concerned should be published in an authoritative publication, with name, colour photograph and clear, detailed description of appearance, habit, size, flowering time etc. If this hasn't happened, anyone can call any plant whatever he/she pleases. But if you want a name officially recognised, then get it published properly and THEN no-one else may use that name for a plant of the same genus.
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Then again, who's going to physically stop you? ;D
Quite probably nobody, and if it is widely distributed and grown then I am sure we, the general public, would hold sway ;)
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So there you have it, Martin. You just need to send one to everyone on the forum and you will win the day!
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Martin, if you have a distinctive snowdrop that you want to call "Pelican" and there's no sign of the Pelican in Snowdrops, and you are ready to distribute it, maybe you should just go ahead? Mao Tse Tung said "you don't get given power, you take it".
I would like to propose the name "Baxendale's Pelican".
I can't see why this couldn't be used, how may snowdrops have the used the words Magnet, Merlin or even Ketton?
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Martin, if you have a distinctive snowdrop that you want to call "Pelican" and there's no sign of the Pelican in Snowdrops, and you are ready to distribute it, maybe you should just go ahead? Mao Tse Tung said "you don't get given power, you take it".
I would like to propose the name "Baxendale's Pelican".
I can't see why this couldn't be used, how may snowdrops have the used the words Magnet, Merlin or even Ketton?
Plenty, and apparently it's "not allowed". Lesley, we were told at the last snowdrop gala that the nomenclatural rules have now been broadened out so that any publication anywhere now consitutes official publication of a plant name, probably based on the ludicrous way researchers have gone back through literature finding obscure early references to prior names for widely-used later names so they can change them and annoy us all.
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I wonder in this modern technological age whether posting a name on SRGC would be enough to call it published?
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I wonder in this modern technological age whether posting a name on SRGC would be enough to call it published?
I think it might well be.
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I wonder in this modern technological age whether posting a name on SRGC would be enough to call it published?
Just checked via google and a new ruling by the International Botanical Congress takes effect this month allowing new species names to be "officially" published online as well as in a paper publication. I would guess that the same will, or soon will, apply to cultivated plant names.
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... I presume Diane Broughton originates from a snowdrop found at Anglesey Abbey so they might know if it still exists.
So much for that idea. I spoke to the deputy head (?) gardener at Anglesey Abbey today. He confirmed that "Diane Broughton" originates from Anglesey Abbey but they don't have it there; he has never even seen one!
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Lesley, I think the rules for publishing a new species or sub-species are much more rigorous. For garden cultivars I think it's just a case of publication of the name with a general description (not necessarily very botanical or in Latin).
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http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/07/110727141321.htm
and full report, I think....
http://www.pensoft.net/journals/phytokeys/article/1850/abstract/outcomes-of-the-2011-botanical-nomenclature-section-at-the-xviii-international-botanical-congress 8)
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Thanks Maggi. I see they're now allowing the description of new plant taxa in either Latin or English rather than insisting on Latin.
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Lesley, I think the rules for publishing a new species or sub-species are much more rigorous. For garden cultivars I think it's just a case of publication of the name with a general description (not necessarily very botanical or in Latin).
Well that's what I meant Martin tho' maybe didn't say it very well. A new species or subspecies (like Crocus fauseri) certainly has to go the whole hog but I've always seen the word "authoritative" included for publishing a new cultivar by which I would take to mean somewhere like "The Garden," The AGS Bulletin or similar. Probably not our Forum as so many different opinions are given and posted. Perhaps the rules are relaxed somewhat over recent years. Everything I thought I knew was from the days when my brain worked at full strength but now, I'm lucky to have it working efficiently before lunch and probably only after 3 cups of coffee. ???
Anyway, I should keep well away from all discussions about snowdrops. Only put my foot in it and offend someone.
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Hi Lesley. I don't know all the ins and outs of it. I'm just going by my vague recollection of what a speaker told us at a recent snowdrop gala about publishing snowdrop names. I think the general theme was that the definition of an suitable publication had been relaxed to the extent that for a cultivar even a plant catalogue could count as publication.
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79 is still nearly 15% of the named snowdrop universe as listed in the Snowdrops book - still a surprisingly high proportion. Again, if anyone knows of the existence of any of these long-lost snowdrops, please message me, if preferred off-line.
I am sure that I can help with information about quite a few of the snowdrops that you are still trying to track down.
As time permits, I will send a number of separate posts, but let us start with those that do not exist and/or which have gone to snowdrop heaven viz
‘Eva Turner’ – as already mentioned on this thread by Brian Ellis, this was originally named for Barrie Carson-Turner’s mother. It was found in a churchyard, very near to the spot where ‘Chadwick’s Cream’ had been discovered a year or two earlier. Upon detailed examination, when both plants were side by side and in full bloom, Barrie Carson-Turner & Robert Marshall (who along with Nigel Chadwick, discovered both plants) determined that the two plants were clearly the same as there were no discernible differences between them. ‘Eva Turner’ was never distributed and the name has now been abandoned.
‘Mystra’ – Ruby Baker/Ronald Mackenzie have confirmed that this plant is now extinct and that it was never distributed.
‘Rabbit Ears’ – Lesley Cox wrote, on the SRGC Forum on 2nd May 2007 “I had a chat with Don Schofield from Mt Tomah…..He also says that the `Rabbit Ears' (from Michael Carle) referred to a split spathe and is, in fact just G. n. `Scharlockii.' When it produced just 2 petals at one stage, the `Rabbit Ears' name was applied but since then it has produced 3 petals, as normal. Storm in a teacup.”
‘Silvia’ – ‘Snowdrops’ describes it as similar to Blonde Inge’ but a photo published in a German magazine in, I believe, the early 2000’s showed a very much deeper yellow form. ‘Silvia’ was found in the meadow of a cemetery near Oberursel by a Mrs Kupferschmidt. She kept one bulb & gave one to a Belgian. Her bulb died & the Belgian later told her that the other bulb had also been lost as a result of leaving it unplunged on a table outside in severe weather. Presumed lost!
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Your revised 'Where are They Now' list contains the following 24 Australian snowdrops – partly because there are only a handful of serious snowdrop collectors in Australia, and probably mainly because of the CITES regulations, only a few Australian snowdrops have found their way to the UK.
Photo’s of some of them can be found in the SRGC archives.
I can confirm that I have knowledge that 22 of them are definitely alive and kicking viz
August
Beenak
Bob Nelson
Donna Buang
Elcatus
Friedl
Genet's Giant
Gladysdale
Hardwick
Hazeldene
Hoddles Creek
Ida Maud
Julie
July
June
Katie Campbell
Melbourne
Norm's Late
Otto Fauser
Powelltown
Wandin
Warburton
I have not yet come across anyone who is growing G. elwesii var. monostictus ‘Westburn’ but, as this was only one of about 20 snowdrops named and distributed by Norm Collins, and these others are all still alive, there is presently no reason to assume that this particular snowdrop has expired.
As detailed elsewhere ‘Rabbit Ears’ is no more!
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Anyway, I should keep well away from all discussions about snowdrops. Only put my foot in it and offend someone.
Don't be silly Lesley - if you keep away we will never manage to convert you ;D
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... I presume Diane Broughton originates from a snowdrop found at Anglesey Abbey so they might know if it still exists.
So much for that idea. I spoke to the deputy head (?) gardener at Anglesey Abbey today. He confirmed that "Diane Broughton" originates from Anglesey Abbey but they don't have it there; he has never even seen one!
Alan - I haven't seen Michael Broadhurst around on the Forum for a while, but perhaps he might know of the fate of this snowdrop?
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Alan - I haven't seen Michael Broadhurst around on the Forum for a while, but perhaps he might know of the fate of this snowdrop?
If Mike isn't on for a while we can always ask him on Saturday.
Good to have you back Chris, thanks for sharing your information, we have missed your input :D
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Alan - I haven't seen Michael Broadhurst around on the Forum for a while, but perhaps he might know of the fate of this snowdrop?
If Mike isn't on for a while we can always ask him on Saturday.
Good to have you back Chris, thanks for sharing your information, we have missed your input :D
Brian - That would be good if you can ask Mike & glad to be back
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Chris
Thanks for this input, really helpful.
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Good to have you back Chris, thanks for sharing your information, we have missed your input :D
Just what I was thinking!
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Now Chevrons, Dorothy Lucking, Double Top, Greenpeace and riz. Ismail have all appeared.
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Anyway, I should keep well away from all discussions about snowdrops. Only put my foot in it and offend someone.
Don't be silly Lesley - if you keep away we will never manage to convert you ;D
I'm already converted John, always loved the ones I have, it's just that so many have never seen the light of a southern hemisphere day, or the dark under the soil here. Make no mistake I really love snowdrops, but am obsessed by irises ;D and all seeds of course. ;D
Good if descriptions of plants can now be in English as well as or instead of Latin. It seems the taxonomists have at last caught up with the church which permits mass to be said in English or the language of any country instead of Latin. After all, not much point if no-one can understand it. I'm afraid I don't hear it in any language. ::)
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Greenpeace
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A friend was telling me he had checked some of his plants from the "lost" list....
He still has......
Elcatus ( there is a pic in SRGC Galanthus 2008 )
Warburton
July
Beechwood ( a pic posted in 2008 ) and
Snow White's Gnome
He has lost Wandin and Essie Huxley
(these from Australia, perhaps lost as a result of a failure to "turn-around" the hemisphere"
{not sure if messages are getting through to Steve or not :-\ }
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That leaves 79 varieties that non-one has signified they know they exist.
Steve - Here are comments on a few more, which are on your updated list viz
I can confirm that both ‘Beechwood’ and ‘Light Bulb’ are still in circulation – I obtained my bulbs of both from mainland Europe sources.
Michael Myers was selling G. plicatus ‘Ron Ginns’ in 2006 – to the best of my recollection it was the real thing but, bearing in mind the confusion with pure G. nivalis, mentioned in ‘Snowdrops’, this id would need to be re-confirmed.
‘Greenshank’ was observed in your fellow NC holder’s collection at Brandy Mount House in 2007 – it seems pretty robust.
‘Green Maid’ has also been observed in several gardens.
I understand that, as of May last year, ‘Christmas Cheer’ was still being grown in the USA by its breeder, Stephen Vinisky, but it is unclear to me whether and to what extent it may have been distributed, as Stephen Vinisky apparently abandoned his Galanthus breeding programme some years ago.
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That leaves 79 varieties that non-one has signified they know they exist.
Steve - Phil Cornish told me in 2005 that ‘Harlequin’ was defunct – whether he just meant that it was defunct in his garden or that it was totally extinct I do not know, but I have yet to come across it. [Apparently mentioned by Joe Sharman on 28/1/2012 in his snowdrop talk at Blacksmith's Cottage Nursery]
I note that ‘Harlequin’ was mentioned in the recent book “Schneeglöckchen ABC“ by Maria Mail-Brandt, but perhaps she was just including it because it was listed in ‘Snowdrops’ – perhaps there is someone on the Forum who has a copy & could check what she has to say.
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Last year I had SNOW WHITE`S GNOM in my garden.
This year I have to look.
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I hope you find him Hagen, enjoy your trip to England 8)
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That leaves 79 varieties that non-one has signified they know they exist.
Steve
‘Ruth’ has to be treated with extreme caution as there are at least two snowdrops of this name in circulation – ‘Snowdrops’ refers to G. nivalis ‘Ruth’ and Matt B. describes it as similar to ‘Greenish’. Whilst I have not so far come across this form in any collection, I do note that MB spoke in ‘Snowdrops’ of “a patch of this clone, some several hundred plants strong, had obviously been there for a considerable time’, so it seems unlikely to me that it is now extinct.
The second snowdrop circulating as ‘Ruth’ is G. plicatus ‘Ruth’, which was distributed for a time under this name by Richard Bashford & Valerie Bexley before they realised that the name ‘Ruth’ had already been previously used. So the name was then changed to G. plicatus ‘Farthinghoe Beauty’, as this snowdrop had come to RB/VB from Ruth Dashwood of Farthinghoe.
(Note of caution - whilst discussing the RB/VB snowdrop, I should mention that there is also a snowdrop in circulation called G. plicatus ‘Ruth Dashwood’ – VB has confirmed that this is a different snowdrop to 'Farthinghoe Beauty'.)
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That leaves 79 varieties that non-one has signified they know they exist
Steve
G. plicatus ‘Peter Pan’ is another tricky one and, albeit in small numbers, it is possible that there are two forms circulating under this name!
The G. plicatus ‘Peter Pan’ in ‘Snowdrops’ is described as ‘one of the shorter, more dainty G. plicatus cultivars’ and was found & circulated by Phil Cornish. I understand from PC that he no longer has it and I have not yet come across this form in any collection.
Ian Christie also provisionally named one of his Scottish finds G. plicatus ‘Peter Pan’, and circulated it under that name to a very small number of friends – Ian told me in 2010 that he had stopped using this name and that his snowdrop was to undergo a further period of evaluation before deciding whether or not it warranted a new name.
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Whilst discussing the RB/VB snowdrop, I should mention that there is also a snowdrop in circulation called G. plicatus ‘Ruth Dashwood’ – whether or not this is the same snowdrop, and therefore possibly the third name under which it has been circulated, I do not know.
Whilst discussing this with Valerie last year she did say that I had bought 'Ruth Dashwood' from them and that when you saw it next to 'Farthinghoe Beauty' you could easily tell the difference.
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Whilst discussing this with Valerie last year she did say that I had bought 'Ruth Dashwood' from them and that when you saw it next to 'Farthinghoe Beauty' you could easily tell the difference.
Most helpful Brian - thanks - I will amend my earlier post
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I also asked Mike Broadhurst today about Diana Boughton and he said that he thought it was no longer in existence.
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At last years Gala or Garden House event there was some chat about Broadwell being lost. How many people grow it?
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'Margaret Markham' is alive and well.
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Martin - Back in January 2009 you asked about the source of your 'Robert Berkley' which you chipped in 2001. I notice a friend bought one from Dr. MacKenzie in 2001. Could he have been your source? Sorry to take so long. Does anyone have a picture of it?
johnw
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Martin - Back in January 2009 you asked about the source of your 'Robert Berkley' which you chipped in 2001. I notice a friend bought one from Dr. MacKenzie in 2001. Could he have been your source? Sorry to take so long. Does anyone have a picture of it?
johnw
Yes he was. Thanks.
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At last years Gala or Garden House event there was some chat about Broadwell being lost. How many people grow it?
Margaret Glynn gave it to me some years ago and I now have a reasonable size clump. It is much admired, partly due to the fact that it flowers much later than other varieties.
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Thanks again to all who have chipped in with information and suggestions. Here is the latest version of the Where Are They Now? list. I have removed from it a number of snowdrops that apparently originated in Australia or other far-flung places and never properly entered cultivation in the UK. I have also deleted some snowdrops where an informant has said "this variety is alive and well" without adding any evidence as to where and with whom - so we have only one person's word for it. In two cases I have removed snowdrops where I received messages saying "I have this snowdrop, no-one else has nor will" - in which case one wonders why they presumably volunteered them for the Book.
The remaining list below remains a mystery, and it's still quite sizeable;
Armistice Day
Barguest
Ceri Roberts
Crimea
Crimean Emerald
Dame Margot Fonteyn
Diana Broughton
Earliest
Eleanor's Double
Ellen Minnet
Ermine Lace
Ermine Oddity
Ermine Ruby
Gimli
Halo
Ispahan
Joan Weighell
Julia
Krabat
Lady Mary Grey
Lanarth
Linnetts Green Tips
Long Tall Sally
Longfellow
Mafangza
Maid Marian
Matt-adors
Missenden Slender
Molly
Watts
Pat Mackenzie
Pelican
Phil Bryn
Proliferation
Quintet
Robert Berkeley
Ryton Ruth
Scissors
Shadow
Six Leaves
Slim Jim
Squib
Yuletide
If you know differently, post a comment or send me a Personal Message via the PM tab! Thanks again for the help received so far,
Steve
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Steve - would it be worth you writing to Dr MacKenzie as 'Pat MacKenzie' is named after his late wife according to the book.
(The photograph in the book has always reminded me of 'Pat Mason' which is not in the book)
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Steve - A friend had 2 Robert Berkeley in 2003, received one from Dr. MacKenzie in 2001 . As I am just writing a letter I will ask him if it has bulked up over the last 9 years and will let you know. As mentioned before Ryton Ruth is alive and well in Devon.
johnw
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I found Robert Berkely from Ron to be prone to disease and also not terribly distinct, just another single-marked nivalis x plicatus. It kept going back here so I chipped it and it recovered for a year then started going back again. I think I gave up on it but may still have the remnants somewhere. Will have a look when I'm recovered from my current bad cold and everything has defrosted.
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Steve - ... As mentioned before Ryton Ruth is alive and well in Devon.
johnw
Apologies John, I missed your earlier post.
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Linnett Green Tips
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i grow longfellow Steve! Try to make a picture of it tomorrow. Not sure its still in flower
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its great to see the list being whittled down. Was Diana Broughton ever found?
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'Pat Mackenzie' is grown in Washington state in the U.S.
Jim
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someone on here sent me Snow White's Gnome (a long time ago) but it didn't survive more than a year.
Richard,
'Snow White's Gnome' is from Wolfgang Kletzing.It blooms very late (April) .I have some sold in England.
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I could be wrong but I think I have Dame Margot Fonteyn
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I could be wrong but I think I have Dame Margot Fonteyn
It appears on eBay so several people probably grow it.
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I could be wrong but I think I have Dame Margot Fonteyn
Here is a picture of mine
[attachimg=1]
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Help please Maggi .I can't straighten the picture ???
edit by maggi = fixed it.