Scottish Rock Garden Club Forum
General Subjects => Plants Wanted Or For Exchange => Topic started by: Palustris on January 18, 2012, 05:52:14 PM
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I am seeking information on a plant which is sometimes shown as Heuchera micans. Anyone grow this?
TIA
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Here's the plant, as pictured at the East Cheshire AGS SHOW 5th May 2007 AT Macclesfield, by Cliff Booker from this post
http://www.srgc.org.uk/forum/index.php?topic=482.msg11898#msg11898
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Seems this is a question that is taxing the National Collection Holder, too!
http://www.growsonyou.com/question/show/70360
Also, you'll see that Palustris gets about!! ;)
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I would start here; http://www.efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=1&taxon_id=115382 (http://www.efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=1&taxon_id=115382).
I would suggest the possibilities of abramsii, elegans, hirsutissima, parishii, and/or, rubescens.
Also, the name, micans, may have been someones shorthand for micrantha, but the plant does not look right for that species.
But, without keying it in the FNA treatment a guess based on pictures is not good.
Aaron
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Appears that this is yet another plant species that exists in Horticulture only, as there is no evidence of a validly published name H. "micans", not found in IPNI.ORG, The Plant List, Flora of North America (where the genus Heuchera resides), nor Tropicos. Aaron, I thought of the mossibly name corruption of micrantha, but it does not match that species.
There is a name Saxifraga micans, but that is a kabschia, and per The Plant List, the name is unresolved, but it is not related to the subject plant.
Aaron, I think I can narrow the list of suggested species as to its actual identity, my first guess is H. abramsii, second guess is H. rubescens.
http://www.laporteavenuenursery.com/html/heuchera_abramsii.html
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My picture of the offending plant does not show who the owner was, so I am unable to contact him/her directly. I was hoping some kind person would offer me a piece.
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Cliff's plant (or the plant photographed by Cliff) is very fine whatever its true identity.
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Didn't we have an article in IRG on species Heuchera, maybe the author could help?
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We did indeed, David, from Grahame Ware who has written a book on these plants. .... I've passed this query on to him :)
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edit by maggi: ....having followed the link in a previous post, Mark writes:
A response at the end worries me "The Heuchera ?micans was in existence in 2009 as I have a picture of it at an AGS show from that year"
The scenario seems to be, if a plant is shown once (even with a dubious name), that act in of itself makes it real and legitimate, without considering the possibility the plant name may be scrambled, invented, unpublished, or otherwise invalid. Then it gets photographed, reposted, the plant propagated and distributed, blogged about, posted and reposted, etc etc etc, as we all know, "if its on the internet it must be legitimate", and another urban legend is born and becomes embedded in horticulture.
Need to start a thread on fictitiously named plant species; has anyone heard of Androsace victoriae? It's another one going around.
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I am utterly disgusted that this site allows such an unpleasant and down right rude posting to remain. To criticise someone on another site for their use of language is as far as I am concerned beyond the pale.
edit by maggi:
The post that upset Eric has been removed.
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I m not so sure that it is so wrong of the "site" which is a "broad church" and (I believe) better for being so. What I do think is wonderfull is the amount of restraint and self regulation which takes place between members. If some thing is wrong and is challenged surely that is a good thing? ;)
I remember a posting of Allium "clevlandii/ cleavelandii" ( Aparently an un published name.) There was never any help forthcoming on its correct identification though, but the suppliers of this lovely plant were slated. ::)
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Peter, I think Eric/Palustris is upset by the criticism of the blogger's writing style, not the use of the plant name.
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I've heard from Grahame Ware, who we thought might be able to cast some light on the use of the name H. micans .....
Maggi: Not sure where this name started but I looked through my papers and in the second box found that the name is attributable to H. rubescens which is the most variable species in the Heux cosmos. Micans is an invalid name as you stated. There are a quite few in the Nat'l Collection.
Thus it seems that the National Collection Holder of historical note (Ramsdale) and/or the RHS has to be responsible for the continued use of this invalid name.
So this plant is what taxonomists would call either a nomina ambigua, a nomina confusa or just plain nomen illegitumum.
Still it was a lovely, floriferous plant on the stand, was it not? (referring to the picture of a show plant which I sent him)
I'll keep poking through the info and let you know if I find anything else.
Regards,
Grahame
I wish I could tell you where the use of this name started. I'll keep looking thru the boxes!
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If the criticism has been levelled at me then fair enough, my shoulders are broad (too broad some would say), but it is the fact that it was made of someone who is not a member of the SRGC nor a poster to this board and thus unable to defend herself which really made me angry.
I apologise if my reaction has upset anyone and would like to say thank-you to those posters who tried to help with suggestions of possible identity, that kind of help is what I have come to expect from the majority of people on this site.
If anyone out there is into Heucheras, Heucherellas and Tiarellas then I can thoroughly recommend the nursery. The plants are beautifully grown and reasonably priced and correctly named.
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Eric, I have edited some posts and I hope this helps.
There is no question that the National Collection holder is part of a very successful nursery team. Their Gold Medal exhibits speak for that!
M
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I just tried entering Heuchera micans into the Plant Finder search. It came up with a result for H. rubescens.... shown as offered by half a dozen nurseries.
I hope this link shows those:
http://apps.rhs.org.uk/rhsplantfinder/pfregions.asp?ID=8718
When I get a minute I'm going to have a poke around the ir listings to see if there are any photos of the plants they are offering to see if they equate to the cute little "micans".... it may be that suppliers have already abandoned the "micans" label and that it may be possible to source this plant mail order.
Not hugely hopeful, I must say... but the show plants we've seen are so nice, it's worth a look.
Eric, had you tried this route already?
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I just tried entering Heuchera micans into the Plant Finder search. It came up with a result for H. rubescens.... shown as offered by half a dozen nurseries.
I hope this link shows those:
http://apps.rhs.org.uk/rhsplantfinder/pfregions.asp?ID=8718
Well, that didn't get me very far.
Some of the nurseries do not have websites so no chance to read what they say about a plant or see a photo.
Some with websites have no actual list online, or photos.
Some are not actually listing the plant now.
None have photos.
Ah well, back to the drawing board!
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I did try this route and got to the same dead end as you. Main reason why I tried on here. The H. rubescens I have seen is not the same as this show plant. Fascinating, exploring the little lanes of plant names. Wonder if I should enquire about Allium daghestanicum then....................no I think I will pass on that one.
It is certainly a misnamed plant, but it does exist( the plant that is) and as such surely it deserves to be properly identified.
Thank-you once again for these valiant efforts. I have passed on the info so far to the interested party.
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I hope we can find a source in the end, Eric.... you've got me interested enough to fancy trying the plant.
I have only got the snailmail contact for one of the exhibitors that I've found the name for... but I'm working on a quicker contact ;D
There remains the mystery of the origin of the name, of course........ but I'm sure there are others better able than I to track that.
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Wonder if I should enquire about Allium daghestanicum then....................no I think I will pass on that one.
Palustris, there is a real Allium daghestanicum, I can post photos late tonight in the Allium topic when I get home from work. Most often plants going around under this name are usurped by Allium senescens.
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Aaron's previous suggestion is a good one. With living material (and flowers) it should be possible to key the plant in Flora of North America, why not start there?
http://www.srgc.org.uk/forum/index.php?topic=8396.msg226553#msg226553
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Hi: I'm posting with the sounds of Madonna's "Virgin" ringing in my head! Not really....but I am posting here on the SRGC "for the very first time."
On the subject of H. micans, it is indeed elusive. I've found nothing so far.
Here's what I do know after rifling through my Heuchera boxes:
The only significant treatment of the genus heuchera was done during the Depression by a team of botanists led by Otto Rosendahl and assisted by Frederick Butters and Olga Lakela. They roamed over all of N America from Mexico to Vancouver Island and Georgia to Ontario conducting field studies. They also examined all the herbariums that contained the holotypes. Their enormous work resulted in, "A Monograph on the genus Heuchera", U of Minnesota Press, 1936.
Subsequent detailed work has been done in recent years by Drs. Elizabeth Wells and Barbara Shipes and can be found in the Flora of North America. Follow this link- http://www.efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=1&taxon_id=115382
Nowhere in either of these texts can one find reference to Heuchera micans or a synonymy involving that putative species.
This begs the question then, 'Where did this name arise?'
I'll stay on the trail and let you know.
Grahame
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Hi Grahame... hope we were gentle with you?!
Thanks for your help. :-*
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I concur with Mark ;D If one does not know what they are looking at and there is a good dichotomous key, then start there. If it does not key and the origin of the plant is obscure it is likely a hybrid or mutant selection. Or, if one does have provenance the keying part should be simple. Since Heuchera is endemic to North America (including Meso-) and the FNA treatment is only 2 years old FNA is the best choice.
Aaron
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But, Wells is wrong in the lumping of H. macrorhiza, villosa, and arkansana. I may even go so far as to say villosa var. intermedia is a good taxon! I grow all four and have explored the areas where the two overlap in Tennessee (only one site I can find where the two grow within a few miles of one another). and arkansana is so disjunct and also distinct in morphology.
Now back to someones misreading of someones bad hand writing (my handwriting may have inadvertently renamed rivers, mountains, and plants :o), H. "micans."
Aaron
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Aaron: I don't think that Wells is lumping she simply sees them (arkansas, mac., etc) as subspecies.
She's been on the Heuchera 'trail' for quite some time and seen many a specimen.
Check out her well researched piece, "A revision of the genus Heuchera in Eastern North America" in Systematic Botany Monographs Vol. 3, May 1984 for more insight as to locations of the subspecies you referred to.
Hope this helps.
Grahame
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Hi: Just came a cross a printout from Wisley that was prepared for their trials of Heux in 1998.
They list it as Heuchera MICANS (all CAPS!).
Am pursuing this...
G
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MICANS .... Must I Change All Named Specimens ........Maybe Is Completely A-Nother Species....... I could be here all day playing this game :P
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Maggi....
Maybe... maybe but you don't need to 'play this game' at all!
::)
G
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Maggi....
Maybe... maybe but you don't need to 'play this game' at all!
::)
G
Oh! You can be such a party pooper. :P
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I am beginning to wonder if I should have quietly forgotten all about wanting this plant. Unless, of course, if you good folks are enjoying yourselves. I do hope so!
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Sure, this is fun, who needs the SRGC Forum puzzles thread when there are puzzles such as this one ;)