Scottish Rock Garden Club Forum
Plant Identification => Plant Identification Questions and Answers => Topic started by: JohnnyD on January 15, 2012, 11:56:50 AM
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Clare collected seed of this allium in southern Spain some years ago and it persists, even after a couple of frosty nights.
It is essentially white but shows a little pink as it ages. It is distinctly scented.
It seems to have mainly three basal leaves.
Height is about 30cm.
Does anyone know it?
JohnnyD
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You didn't say anything about the habitat from which this was collected.
But I think this may possibly be A. subvillosum which is very common in some areas of southern Spain particularly in grassy and sandy areas.
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I agree, it looks like A. subvillosum.
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Thanks Guys.
The stratum was a grassy bank by a lake.
My books don't mention scentfor subvillosum!
J.
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Not sure about A. subvillosum - normally stamens are much longer (http://herbarivirtual.uib.es/cat-med/imatges_especie/5042_79491.html) also leaves look wide for this species - perhaps A. subhirsutum?
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Hmm.... I find it difficult to distinguish between these two species sometimes. However, Blamey & Grey Wilson, Mediterranean Wild Flowers state that A. subhirsutum has brownish anthers rather than yellow, though I agree that there is no mention of scent for Subvillosum.
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Hi Dave, not sure about the colour of the anthers in literature - but here the plants called A. subhirsutum have yelllow ones: http://herbarivirtual.uib.es/cat-med/imatges_especie/5034_79478.html
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Telling these two species apart (and a couple other allied species) is difficult because they are so similar and both are highly variable. Accordingly, on many web pages they're mixed up. I don't know if the floras take into account the degree of variability on many plant species.
Flora Europaea gives the following to distinguish these species:
1.
A. subhirsutum: leaves 6-45 cm long, 2-10 mm wide
A. subvillosum: leaves 6-30 cm long, 2-20 mm wide
[subvillosum can have wider leaves than subhirsutum, at least as reported by Flora Europaea]
2.
A. subhirsutum: pedicels to 40 mm, 3-5 times as long as perianth segments (wider lax head)
A. subvillosum: pedicels to 20 mm, 2 times as long as perianth segments (tighter head)
[better match is subvillosum, with short pedicels and tighter head]
3.
A. subhirsutum: stamens 1/2 to 2/3 as long as perianth
A. subvillosum: stamens slightly shorter to slightly longer than perianth
[better match is subhirsutum, with shorter stamens]
4.
A. subhirsutum: anthers usually brown (occassionally yellow)
A. subvillosum: anthers yellow
[better match is subvillosum, with brown anthers, but characteristic is unrealiable]
So there you have it, when keying plants, they never neatly fit the keys, but one can make a determination on closest fit. The actual dimensions of the leaves, length of pedicels, stamens and filaments, would be needed to hone in on the most probable species fit.
So, I think it is A. subvillosum or A. subhirsutum (slightly favoring subvillosum) ;)
Some more links, be aware however that researching on the web can lead to more ambiguity and confusion.
http://www.aphotoflora.com/mon_allium_subhirsutum_hairy_garlic.html
http://luirig.altervista.org/schedeit/ae/allium_subhirsutum.htm
http://www.biolib.cz/en/image/id47154/
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Allium_subvillosum.JPG
http://www.biolib.cz/en/taxonimage/id47555/?taxonid=460588
Allium subvillosum - Native, from Bachas, Mallorca, Spain (whole plant)
http://pharm1.pharmazie.uni-greifswald.de/systematik/7_bilder/coolpix/Ma020143.jpg
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Certainly hairs on leaf margins.
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Yes, both subhirsutum and subvillosum have ciliate leaf margins.
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Cannot contribute to which it is - but I'm impressed that it can flower at this time and take some frost.
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I believe I've heard reports that winter in the UK this year has been unusually mild, and some spring-flowering bulbs are already in flower. Tony Willis showed images of his garden, and there are lots of precocious bloomers. One reason I can't successfully grow some of the Mediterranean species outdoors over the long term, like A. roseum, neapolitanum, subhirsutum, subvillosum, trifoliatum, etc., is because the foliage comes up in fall/early winter, and too easily gets whacked with prolonged frigid weather.
I'm surprised that the bulbs I received late summer of 2010 of Allium 'Cameleon" (either A. longanum or trifoliatum) survived the winter and lived to flower in spring. Of course, it helped we had something like 10-12' (4 M) of snow last year. This fall and early winter, with an extra mild season, this Allium is in very advanced growth, yet we almost no snow cover and now the deep deep freeze is here (this morning 0 F, -18 C).
John, is your Spanish Allium actually blooming now, or were your photos taken at a different time of year?
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It is blooming now and has been for the last three weeks at least.
Buds are still coming and, unless there is a real frost, it looks set for a while yet.
John