Scottish Rock Garden Club Forum

Bulbs => Bulbs General => Topic started by: wmel on January 08, 2012, 04:12:18 PM

Title: Allium 2012
Post by: wmel on January 08, 2012, 04:12:18 PM
to begin I wish everyone a very good, happy, healthy and succesfull 2012!!

Here in holland we stil don't have anything that looks like winter.
We only got lots of rain, and high temperature's, and no frost at al.
al this rain is not very good for the bulbs. On some fields there are problems because there is to much water.
because al this warm weather bulbs are comming out very early to! a lot of tulips are already out and also a lot of our alliums are green.
below some photos of very early growing allium seed (Silver Spring).
Title: Re: Allium 2012
Post by: John85 on January 10, 2012, 08:33:41 AM
Allium shevockii
This is a very particular allium and I wonder why it isn't more often grown.Is it very difficult?
Are seeds or bulbs available somewhere?
Title: Re: Allium 2012
Post by: TheOnionMan on January 11, 2012, 01:54:04 AM
@Wietse,  I hope your winter stays mild so all those seedlings don't get whacked.  You're getting some incredible germination.

@John
Allium shevockii is exceedingly rare, only found on two mountains in the the southern Sierra Nevada Mountains of California, one population with several thousand plants, the 2nd population with only about 500 plants.  Because it is an endangered plant, it is not likely you'll see it in cultivation anytime soon. :(  It's a stunning species.

http://www.calflora.org/cgi-bin/species_query.cgi?where-calrecnum=234
http://calphotos.berkeley.edu/cgi-bin/img_query?where-taxon=Allium+shevockii&where-anno=1
http://www.flickr.com/search/?q=%22Allium+shevockii%22

PDF File:
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=allium%20shevockii&source=web&cd=2&ved=0CCQQFjAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.blm.gov%2Fpgdata%2Fetc%2Fmedialib%2Fblm%2Fca%2Fpdf%2Fpdfs%2Fcdd_pdfs.Par.000a43e9.File.pdf%2Fspanneed1.PDF&ei=zukMT-WPDOHo0QHohvDXBQ&usg=AFQjCNHd3X44Wx5Ik2_CY1MIyOa8rxCPLQ (http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=allium%20shevockii&source=web&cd=2&ved=0CCQQFjAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.blm.gov%2Fpgdata%2Fetc%2Fmedialib%2Fblm%2Fca%2Fpdf%2Fpdfs%2Fcdd_pdfs.Par.000a43e9.File.pdf%2Fspanneed1.PDF&ei=zukMT-WPDOHo0QHohvDXBQ&usg=AFQjCNHd3X44Wx5Ik2_CY1MIyOa8rxCPLQ)
Title: Re: Allium 2012
Post by: Stephenb on January 11, 2012, 11:50:23 AM
This onion was collected on a vegetable market in India and I suspected it was Allium chinense (Rakkyo) which is a cultivated species in the Far East, notably Japan when I posted this picture in the Allium 2010 thread:

(http://www.srgc.org.uk/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=5766.0;attach=245789;image)

Here is another accession of Allium chinense from a different source from my garden this summer. I've never flowered these species (they go dormant in summer and would normally flower in winter):
Title: Re: Allium 2012
Post by: wmel on January 16, 2012, 09:36:24 PM
A little winter has arrived here (day +2 oC, night -5 oC)
We protect the seed with straw,
The bulbs can have some frost but if it's getting to cold, we pak them also in straw.
Title: Re: Allium 2012
Post by: TheOnionMan on January 29, 2012, 03:12:55 PM
This onion was collected on a vegetable market in India and I suspected it was Allium chinense (Rakkyo) which is a cultivated species in the Far East, notably Japan when I posted this picture in the Allium 2010 thread:

Here is another accession of Allium chinense from a different source from my garden this summer. I've never flowered these species (they go dormant in summer and would normally flower in winter):

Stephen, I drove by a local Chinese market yesterday but didn't stop for sake of time, but your post is a reminder that I should stop in sometime and see what fresh vegetable "onions" they might have, I'm anxious to get A. chinense.

Wietse, I'm sure your allium seedlings and crops will take a moderate hit of winter, they are rather resilient plants.
Title: Re: Allium 2012
Post by: TheOnionMan on January 29, 2012, 03:19:43 PM
I was on Facebook and found a misidentified photo of Alli um narcissiflorum (no surprise there, it was Alli um cyathophorum var. farreri), but when searching for some good photos of real A. narcissiflorum, I came across some stunning photos taken in Italy.  In particular, photos showing how it grows on mountain sides give clues about how to grow this elegant species.  Scroll down to the bottom for some remarkable red-hued forms.
http://www.microsofttranslator.com/BV.aspx?ref=IE8Activity&a=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.actaplantarum.org%2Ffloraitaliae%2Fviewtopic.php%3Ft%3D11938 (http://www.microsofttranslator.com/BV.aspx?ref=IE8Activity&a=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.actaplantarum.org%2Ffloraitaliae%2Fviewtopic.php%3Ft%3D11938)
...and another link with excellent photos:
http://www.actaplantarum.org/acta/albums1.php?id=1047


And a couple more photos of plants in mountain habitat:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/stationalpinejosephfourier/3777485794/in/photostream/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/stationalpinejosephfourier/3776681663/
Title: Re: Allium 2012
Post by: wmel on February 07, 2012, 07:37:39 PM
Last week serious winter and frost was expected. we took our precautions, and now real winter has arrived!!
last week night temperatures until -23 Celcius!!, and the day's maximum is only -3/-5 Celcius.
We were happy for the bulbs we had some 10cm snow for isolation!!
I post some photo's........
Title: Re: Allium 2012
Post by: Janis Ruksans on February 08, 2012, 07:06:17 AM
Almost as in Latvia, only warmer  ;D We had minus 33 C, now temperature raised to "only" minus 17 C :'(
Janis
Title: Re: Allium 2012
Post by: John85 on February 16, 2012, 11:44:31 AM
Wietse how are your seedlings after that cold spell?Were the straw and the snow insulating them enough to keep them alive?
Title: Re: Allium 2012
Post by: wmel on February 17, 2012, 07:00:37 PM
Wietse how are your seedlings after that cold spell?Were the straw and the snow insulating them enough to keep them alive?

Snow and frost are gone now, but they left a lot of damage in the Allium.
Under the straw we do not have most damage, but still allium's as Silver Spring, and ampeloprasum type's have a lot of damage.
The 1e year seedling as I posted photo's in the begin of this topic have only a little frost damage.
I think the photo's  I post tell it all.......... We will wait and see.......
Title: Re: Allium 2012
Post by: wmel on March 11, 2012, 06:18:18 PM
Spring arrived here now, al bulbs grow fast, and alliums are recovering from frost very well.
Also a lot of seeds start to germinate now.
Title: Re: Allium 2012
Post by: TheOnionMan on March 11, 2012, 11:55:38 PM
Weitse, impressive to see those long immaculate rows of sprouting Alliums.  Last autumn I never had a chance to clean up my garden, and the Allium garden looks like a shambles right now.  If anyone thinks that Alliums are easy carefree plants, they haven't had the tedious pleasure of cleaning up, particularly with rhizomatous species like A. senescens, where there are a billion dried persistent flower stems that are not easy to pull off.  Your rows of allium are neat and ready to grow, glad the winter cold snap did not produce any serious damage.
Title: Re: Allium 2012
Post by: wmel on March 18, 2012, 09:54:56 PM
Some photo's from today...
Title: Re: Allium 2012
Post by: Janis Ruksans on March 20, 2012, 04:04:26 PM
Wietse how are your seedlings after that cold spell?Were the straw and the snow insulating them enough to keep them alive?

Snow and frost are gone now, but they left a lot of damage in the Allium.
Under the straw we do not have most damage, but still allium's as Silver Spring, and ampeloprasum type's have a lot of damage.
The 1e year seedling as I posted photo's in the begin of this topic have only a little frost damage.
I think the photo's  I post tell it all.......... We will wait and see.......
Silverspring is not hardy with me. All stocks baught by me turned virus infected, but I have seedlings of it in greenhouse. Hope they will be healthy.
Janis
Title: Re: Allium 2012
Post by: wmel on March 25, 2012, 08:45:36 PM
Wietse how are your seedlings after that cold spell?Were the straw and the snow insulating them enough to keep them alive?

Snow and frost are gone now, but they left a lot of damage in the Allium.
Under the straw we do not have most damage, but still allium's as Silver Spring, and ampeloprasum type's have a lot of damage.
The 1e year seedling as I posted photo's in the begin of this topic have only a little frost damage.
I think the photo's  I post tell it all.......... We will wait and see.......
Silverspring is not hardy with me. All stocks baught by me turned virus infected, but I have seedlings of it in greenhouse. Hope they will be healthy.
Janis

In my first post this year I posted a photo of SilverSpring seed, I have tried to protect if from the frost with a lot of straw, but still I lost about 80% of it.......  Most bulbs survived and are growing well now.

After 6 years of sowing about 5-8 seeds every year, at last I have about 6 seedlings of allium REGELII !! SEE PHOTO,  first time they germinate !!

First allium starts to flower now:  allium paradoxum var normale and allium zebdanense.

also some other photos from today...
Title: Re: Allium 2012
Post by: Paul T on March 26, 2012, 03:59:18 AM
You certainly are growing on a big scale,aren't you!!  :o

I had Allium paradoxum var normale sent to me last year and didn't know what to expect.  I don't grow many Allium, although I am starting to pick up a few more here and there..... I rather love it.... such a different proportion to the traditional Allium.  Very different!! (but in a good way!  ;D)
Title: Re: Allium 2012
Post by: TheOnionMan on March 26, 2012, 05:27:12 AM
Allium zebdanense
http://www.srgc.org.uk/forum/index.php?topic=5766.msg151469#msg151469

Allium paradoxum var. normale:
http://www.srgc.org.uk/forum/index.php?topic=5766.msg148517#msg148517

Allium paradoxum var. normale described:
http://www.srgc.org.uk/forum/index.php?topic=5766.msg145381#msg145381
Title: Re: Allium 2012
Post by: Paul T on March 26, 2012, 09:57:50 AM
Interesting, Mark.  Your pics show var normale flowering above the foliage, yet mine flowered like wmel's..... flowers almost lost amongst the foliage.  Does that mean in future years the flower may sit up high?  Mine were lucky to flower maybe 15cm tall, with the leaves much larger and more prominent than the flower. ::)
Title: Re: Allium 2012
Post by: wmel on March 26, 2012, 11:21:08 AM
Interesting, Mark.  Your pics show var normale flowering above the foliage, yet mine flowered like wmel's..... flowers almost lost amongst the foliage.  Does that mean in future years the flower may sit up high?  Mine were lucky to flower maybe 15cm tall, with the leaves much larger and more prominent than the flower. ::)

last year they were much longer, see photo
I think in the next weeks they will grow longer
Title: Re: Allium 2012
Post by: gote on March 26, 2012, 01:07:17 PM
Nice paradoxum. I am thinking of moving mine. Do you have any views about how sunny they should be placed.
Göte
Title: Re: Allium 2012
Post by: wmel on March 26, 2012, 05:44:12 PM
Nice paradoxum. I am thinking of moving mine. Do you have any views about how sunny they should be placed.
Göte

They grow very wel in full sun with me, but with some shade they flower much longer....
It's one of the first to harvest (mine go out as soon as the leaves are died somewere in the end of may)
Best is to keep warm and dry al summer and re-plant in oktober.
Title: Re: Allium 2012
Post by: Stephenb on March 26, 2012, 08:15:30 PM
Could someone please identify this for me. I suspect it's one of the commercially sold bulb Alliums - distinctive red tips to the leaves.
Title: Re: Allium 2012
Post by: wmel on March 26, 2012, 08:51:47 PM
Could someone please identify this for me. I suspect it's one of the commercially sold bulb Alliums - distinctive red tips to the leaves.

I will look in my "garden" tomorrow morning at sunrise, becauce it can be a lot of different alliums........
Title: Re: Allium 2012
Post by: wmel on March 27, 2012, 04:41:24 PM
Could someone please identify this for me. I suspect it's one of the commercially sold bulb Alliums - distinctive red tips to the leaves.

Most likely it is Aflatunense (Hollandicum)  or "Purple Sensation" But we will see wen they flower.......
Title: Re: Allium 2012
Post by: Stephenb on March 29, 2012, 12:02:12 PM
Thanks - strange, I don't have any note of planting that in this place, but somewhere else. Looks like I've mixed things up!
Title: Re: Allium 2012
Post by: wmel on April 03, 2012, 07:27:57 PM
The weather is very nice here, so al bulbs grow fast.
First tulips start flowering, and alliums grow well to
Some photos from today. As you can see allium paradoxum now is much higher then a week ago
Title: Re: Allium 2012
Post by: TheOnionMan on April 04, 2012, 02:36:34 AM
Hi Weitse, impressive as always.  If I may ask, how to do go about handling the beds of 2-year seedlings as we see in your photo "allium 2-year seed 3-4-2012 1.JPG"?  With so many seedlings (I imagine thousands in each block), do these get dug up and separated so that the bulbs have room to develop?  If so, must be a tremendous amount of work, how is it done?

Now that A. paradaoxum var. normale has developed and the flowers are above the foliage, it shows well just how lovely this species is.  :) 
Title: Re: Allium 2012
Post by: wmel on April 05, 2012, 08:18:27 AM
Hi Weitse, impressive as always.  If I may ask, how to do go about handling the beds of 2-year seedlings as we see in your photo "allium 2-year seed 3-4-2012 1.JPG"?  With so many seedlings (I imagine thousands in each block), do these get dug up and separated so that the bulbs have room to develop?  If so, must be a tremendous amount of work, how is it done?

It is a lot of work indeed, We let the seed/bulbs in the ground for 2 years on the same spot, because after 1 year grow they are just to smal for harvesting and for surviving a dry storage al summer.
The second year we dig out al bulbs with al surrounding soil and wash them out by hand, some bulbs grow only 1 or 2 centimeter deep so these are easy to find (like karataviense type's) but others (like schubertii or auctum) grow sometimes to a depth of 20 centimeters so these we have to wash a lot of soil to get a little bulbs.
I post 2 old photos in wich you can see a box of harvested bulbs with soil, and how they look after washing, I make some more photos this year.

Last autumn I had some bulbs left over of the wild allium paradoxum, and just throw them into the bush in my garden... see photo
Title: Re: Allium 2012
Post by: TheOnionMan on April 08, 2012, 04:04:32 PM
Thanks Weitse for explaining, that's quite an operation, and lots of work.  The box full of A. tschimganicum bulbs look like little coctail onions :D  When you plant them out, do you just "broadcast" the little bulblets in a planting bed, or use some sort of planting machine?  I can't imagine that you would actually go to the trouble of planting the bulbs right-side-up, the little bulbs will probably "right" themselves as they increase in size.

By comparison, it makes my my simple seed sowing quite easy and manageable, particularly when I do a little bit of seed "sowing-in-place".

Here are some seed flats full of germinating Allium, thanks so much Wietse!
Allium tuncelianum and macranthum:
[attachthumb=1]

[attachthumb=2]


Allium huber-morathii:

[attachthumb=3]


Allium aff. elburzense from Kurt Vickery seed, sown directly in the garden in 2 locations, here's one location with 12 second-year seedlings.

[attachthumb=4]


Allium species coll.Turkey, from NARGS 2008-09 seed, direct sown in 2010. these are second-year seedlings.

[attachthumb=5]


Allium fedtschenkoanum, coll. Kazakhstan.  I received about 25 Allium collections from Kazakhstan, all but 3 have germinated.

[attachthumb=6]
Title: Re: Allium 2012
Post by: TheOnionMan on April 08, 2012, 04:23:39 PM
About 5 years ago, I was given some seedlings from a variegated form of Allium nutans.  Some were all green, others had some variegation, while one was nearly totally white-leaved.  The most boldly variegated one was a weak grower and eventually died, but I do have one that shows some fairly strong variegation, and has finally got to a large enough size to start dividing.  Not sure if this clump is from just one seedling or several grown in together; the variegation is stronger on some leaves more than others.  The flowers are ugly, an insipid few-flowered affair, but the leaf variagation might prove useful for hybridization.

Taken 4-7-2012, Allium nutans "variegated form".

[attachthumb=1]


Along similar lines, Darrell Probst found a number of purple-striated leaf forms of Allium tricoccum in the woods of central Massachusetts, he shared a couple bulbs with me.  They just came up a couple days ago.

[attachthumb=2]
Title: Re: Allium 2012
Post by: Stephenb on April 08, 2012, 04:43:04 PM
Thanks for showing, Mark! Both very desirable plants!
Title: Re: Allium 2012
Post by: wmel on April 08, 2012, 10:01:58 PM
Thanks Weitse for explaining, that's quite an operation, and lots of work.  The box full of A. tschimganicum bulbs look like little coctail onions :D  When you plant them out, do you just "broadcast" the little bulblets in a planting bed, or use some sort of planting machine?  I can't imagine that you would actually go to the trouble of planting the bulbs right-side-up, the little bulbs will probably "right" themselves as they increase in size.

By comparison, it makes my my simple seed sowing quite easy and manageable, particularly when I do a little bit of seed "sowing-in-place".

Here are some seed flats full of germinating Allium, thanks so much Wietse!
Allium tuncelianum and macranthum:

All bulbs (small and big) are re-planted between the last week of september and half oktober. We tryed a lot of different systems for planting with al kinds of self-made machines, but the last years we have build the right machine (for us). I post some photo's of planting. Now al our bulbs are planted with this machine. We plant 2 rows on 1.5 meters ( as wide as the tractor)
All bulbs we lay in the ground by hand, the big bulbs one by one right-side-up, but for small bulbs there is no need to do so. They know to find there way up.....

Mark; your allium seeds grow very well as I see in your photo's!, What kind of soil do you use to sow the seeds in??
My seeds of tuncelianum and macranthum are also growing well, and also seeds from the white form of macranthum!!
seeds from allium plumerae, campanulatum, stellatum, cardiostemon, giganteum and schubertii are not germinated yet :'( :'(
I think I have lost about 10-15 alliums because of the frost last winter, I make a list of alliums later for other people so they know this alliums need protection against frost.
Title: Re: Allium 2012
Post by: TheOnionMan on April 10, 2012, 01:37:32 AM

Mark; your allium seeds grow very well as I see in your photo's!, What kind of soil do you use to sow the seeds in??
My seeds of tuncelianum and macranthum are also growing well, and also seeds from the white form of macranthum!!
seeds from allium plumerae, campanulatum, stellatum, cardiostemon, giganteum and schubertii are not germinated yet :'( :'(
I think I have lost about 10-15 alliums because of the frost last winter, I make a list of alliums later for other people so they know this alliums need protection against frost.

Wietse, that is one impressive operation :o :o :o  It really makes me think, seeing your operations, that there should be no excuse for me to lose so many Allium species over time, but I do.  If one is using longs beds "bulb management beds" that are annually or bi-annually dig up and replenished, it's a whole other aspect of garden.  When I build a new bed, it simply gets filled up right away, or overfilled, the intention being that what gets planted, needs to stay there.  But growing on lots of seed certainly makes sense... wish I had not lost so many wonderful Allium that I had from places like Kew or ones collected by Arnis Seisums and shared with me, plants that are now mere memories.

Regarding seed sowing mixes, I don't use anything fancy, just garden soil mixed 50-50 with sand.  I do now top dress with decomposed shredded pink bark mulch, seems to work well on many items.

Sorry to hear of some Allium losses, it seems inevitable with the vagaries of winter/spring weather that one has some losses each year, but it's still always a blow to lose things one is trying hard to grow.
Title: Re: Allium 2012
Post by: wmel on April 10, 2012, 07:59:52 PM
About 5 years ago, I was given some seedlings from a variegated form of Allium nutans.  Some were all green, others had some variegation, while one was nearly totally white-leaved.  The most boldly variegated one was a weak grower and eventually died, but I do have one that shows some fairly strong variegation, and has finally got to a large enough size to start dividing.  Not sure if this clump is from just one seedling or several grown in together; the variegation is stronger on some leaves more than others.  The flowers are ugly, an insipid few-flowered affair, but the leaf variagation might prove useful for hybridization.
[

I was walking in my 4-year old seedlings from christopii and found 2 different varigated plants, never seen them before !?, and also never found some in other alliums. (We did find a lot of varigated plants in our tulips)
Title: Re: Allium 2012
Post by: TheOnionMan on April 11, 2012, 03:36:54 AM

I was walking in my 4-year old seedlings from christopii and found 2 different varigated plants, never seen them before !?, and also never found some in other alliums. (We did find a lot of varigated plants in our tulips)

Cool, does it propagate?
Title: Re: Allium 2012
Post by: wmel on April 15, 2012, 02:51:45 PM
Cool, does it propagate?

Last year "Before" they were variegated, they did propagate very good. this alliums came from crossing christopii and atropurpureum.
Title: Re: Allium 2012
Post by: TheOnionMan on April 15, 2012, 03:20:16 PM
Weitse, I hope your variegated hybrids remain stable and one day can be introduced.

An updated photo of the purple-striped version of Allium tricoccum, and in the background, a form of A. listera that Darrell Probst collected in China; this form sprouts about 2 weeks earlier and is green leaved versus another clone that Darrell collected that emerges a striking dark ruddy reddish-brown color initially then changes to green.  The latter clone just showed its brown nose yesterday; phew, I was getting worried that it would be a "no show".

[attachthumb=1]


In the past I lamented how a single plant of Allium tricoccum that I planted in some dry woods in the lower portion of my property, had never increased in all the years I have been at my current property (25 years).  The area where it is planted is overgrown and left as wild woodland, beyond the reach of water hoses.  Last year, while traipsing through thickets of overgrowth, to my surprise discovered that the "ramps" finally established themselves after a couple of decades, making nice clumps and with evidence it was seeding around.  I cleared some of the brush from the area.  Here are a couple recent photos.  Last year I never caught them in bloom, will try to catch them in flower this year.

[attachthumb=2]

[attachthumb=3]   
Title: Re: Allium 2012
Post by: wmel on April 15, 2012, 05:34:41 PM
some photos taken today
Title: Re: Allium 2012
Post by: Maggi Young on April 15, 2012, 05:55:46 PM
Weitse, I would scarcely be believing this rate of growth if it were not for the photographic evidence.  8)
Title: Re: Allium 2012
Post by: wmel on April 15, 2012, 06:28:51 PM
Weitse, I would scarcely be believing this rate of growth if it were not for the photographic evidence.  8)

sinds I was about 12 years old I started collecting alliums, but it is becauce it became my work/living I have so much of it.
We are mostely working on making (trying to make) new alliums, but sometimes an wild allium is also very interesting to grow in big amounts for use as cutflower or gardenplant. so that is why it looks so much. I stil like allium most and stil try to get as many species as possible, I have to say we throw away thousands and tousands of bulbs every year that are flowering from seed and do not fit in what we expected or trying to find....
Title: Re: Allium 2012
Post by: ronm on April 15, 2012, 07:08:29 PM
 :-X
Title: Re: Allium 2012
Post by: Tony Willis on April 19, 2012, 10:41:24 AM
One of my only two alliums

Allium akaka
Title: Re: Allium 2012
Post by: ronm on April 19, 2012, 11:32:35 AM
A very nice one though Tony. 8)
Title: Re: Allium 2012
Post by: Oron Peri on April 21, 2012, 05:36:02 PM
Tony
That is a real beauty.

Here are two alliums photographed this morning in the south of the Golan Heights [Syrian teritory]
A dark form of Allium schubertii and an  newly described species belonging to the A. nigrum group, soon it  is going to have its own name.
Title: Re: Allium 2012
Post by: wmel on April 21, 2012, 10:16:08 PM
Here are two alliums photographed this morning in the south of the Golan Heights [Syrian teritory]
A dark form of Allium schubertii and an  newly described species belonging to the A. nigrum group, soon it  is going to have its own name.

it looks like allium "Silver Spring" as we grow it here in holland. SilverSping came from Israel where it is used as cutflower they told us.....
Is it the normal time now for these alliums to flower??
Title: Re: Allium 2012
Post by: Oron Peri on April 22, 2012, 02:07:38 PM
Apparently it is the same one.
Yes, this species is in flower in April, consider that temperatures are 20-27c at the moment.
Title: Re: Allium 2012
Post by: wmel on April 22, 2012, 09:46:14 PM
Some photo's from today. Last year it was very warm in april, but this year it's only about 10-13 oC last week, so the alliums are growing slow.
Every day we see more damage from the cold winter we had.
Title: Re: Allium 2012
Post by: Tony Willis on May 03, 2012, 09:59:07 AM
A different clone of  Allium akaka to the one I showed previously  this one from Kars in NE Turkey
Title: Re: Allium 2012
Post by: LucS on May 06, 2012, 04:12:20 PM
A few more from the same group :
Allium haemanthoides
Allium caspium
Allium derderianum
Allium noeanum
Allium elburzense
Title: Re: Allium 2012
Post by: wmel on May 10, 2012, 07:48:29 PM
Last weeks we were very busy with our tulips on the fields. Now all flowers are gone we have some time for the Allium's again!!.
the alliums are growing fast now, and a lot will start flowering soon. I will post some photos made today.
Title: Re: Allium 2012
Post by: wmel on May 10, 2012, 07:50:09 PM
some more photo's from today
Title: Re: Allium 2012
Post by: wmel on May 13, 2012, 06:25:56 PM
Some more photo's from today

allium cupuliferum
allium chelotum
allium kazerounii
allium variegated
allium nevskianum
allium karatavience "red" seed-mix
Title: Re: Allium 2012
Post by: wmel on May 13, 2012, 06:30:25 PM
We are sowing a lot of seed from allium karataviense "Red Giant", "Red Globe" and other type's and we see a lot 'new' colours.
I post some of the most beautiful...........
Title: Re: Allium 2012
Post by: David Nicholson on May 13, 2012, 07:08:49 PM
Plenty of colour variation there Wim. A lovely show.
Title: Re: Allium 2012
Post by: Oron Peri on May 14, 2012, 05:38:14 PM
A few more from the same group :
Allium haemanthoides
Allium caspium
Allium derderianum
Allium noeanum
Allium elburzense

Luc
Fantastic collection! and well grown.
Title: Re: Allium 2012
Post by: xthomasx on May 15, 2012, 04:43:45 PM
To many this may be just a food plant but I appreciate Allium schoenoprasum bloom every year. I my hometown we had zillions growing along the river bank - unfortunately I don't make it to see them this year >:(

A nice clump of Allium schoenoprasum from my garden... which I don't harvest but enjoy it for its flower.

Title: Re: Allium 2012
Post by: fredg on May 22, 2012, 05:35:07 PM
I don't have a field  :(

Allium falcifolium

Title: Re: Allium 2012
Post by: wmel on May 23, 2012, 06:45:16 AM
I don't have a field  :(

But they are beautifull !!

some allium today from witch I only have a few...

akaka seedling
pseudobodeanum
shelkovnikovii
howelii var. clokeyi
Title: Re: Allium 2012
Post by: olegKon on May 24, 2012, 08:57:42 PM
1,2.seedgrown Allium bodeanum. It took the only seedling 5 years to flower.
3. Allium carputense. The beginning
Title: Re: Allium 2012
Post by: wmel on May 27, 2012, 09:07:55 AM
some photos from today
allium protensum
Title: Re: Allium 2012
Post by: TheOnionMan on May 27, 2012, 04:03:13 PM
Weitse, that middle photo is freakin UNBELIEVABLE!  What an amazing sight!!!  :o :o :o
Title: Re: Allium 2012
Post by: wmel on May 27, 2012, 07:35:34 PM
Weitse, that middle photo is freakin UNBELIEVABLE!  What an amazing sight!!!  :o :o :o

Thanks! , Here two more made the same time. (late in the evening, while the sun was going down, and made against the sunlight)
Title: Re: Allium 2012
Post by: wmel on May 27, 2012, 07:41:52 PM
Last week we had very high temperatures in Holland, up to 30oC and more, so at last the alliums are growing and flowering in high speed now (a little to fast), we also started harvesting 2 and 3-year old seed from the alliums, and as I have promised I post some photo's from the harvesting and washing of the bulbs
Title: Re: Allium 2012
Post by: Stephenb on May 27, 2012, 09:09:11 PM
Weitse, that middle photo is freakin UNBELIEVABLE!  What an amazing sight!!!  :o :o :o

I'll second that!  :)
Title: Re: Allium 2012
Post by: Lina Hesseling on May 28, 2012, 10:40:47 AM
Weitze, wat een prachtig gezicht!
Thank you for showing us and explaining how you work.

Lina.
Title: Re: Allium 2012
Post by: David Nicholson on May 29, 2012, 03:13:28 PM
From the garden today-Allium 'Purple Sensation'

Title: Re: Allium 2012
Post by: Oron Peri on May 31, 2012, 04:15:14 PM
Weitze, your Allium fields are just stunning, congratulations!!!
David, on a smaller scale, yours too ;)
Title: Re: Allium 2012
Post by: Janis Ruksans on June 02, 2012, 09:51:40 AM
Last two days I had very famous visitor exploring Iranian Alliums - Dr. Reinhardt Fritsch - at present leading authority in Melanocromium alliums - from Gatersleben Institute of Plant Genetics in Germany. We checked names of my Alliums and found between my Iranian gatherings two new, still unknown to science species. Few got new names, too. Here two beauties:
Allium chloropetalum
Allium ellisii
Janis
Title: Re: Allium 2012
Post by: daveyp1970 on June 02, 2012, 10:07:05 AM
Last two days I had very famous visitor exploring Iranian Alliums - Dr. Reinhardt Fritsch - at present leading authority in Melanocromium alliums - from Gatersleben Institute of Plant Genetics in Germany. We checked names of my Alliums and found between my Iranian gatherings two new, still unknown to science species. Few got new names, too. Here two beauties:
Allium chloropetalum
Allium ellisii
Janis
WOW,WOW,WOW again Allium chloropetalum is just stunning,so far new plant of the year for me.
Title: Re: Allium 2012
Post by: wmel on June 02, 2012, 11:54:15 AM
Last two days I had very famous visitor exploring Iranian Alliums - Dr. Reinhardt Fritsch - at present leading authority in Melanocromium alliums - from Gatersleben Institute of Plant Genetics in Germany. We checked names of my Alliums and found between my Iranian gatherings two new, still unknown to science species. Few got new names, too. Here two beauties:
Allium chloropetalum
Allium ellisii
Janis

I think allium ellisii flower looks a lot like allium christopii??, Is it higher or lower, or are there other differents in plant or flower?? allium chloropetalum is spectacular !!!. How high is this allium, and what size are it's bulbs??, and when will you offer some....   very beautifull !!
Title: Re: Allium 2012
Post by: Carlo on June 02, 2012, 02:43:04 PM
Janis,

I must join the chorus singing the praises of A. chloropetalum...wonderful! I can't think of anyone who wouldn't welcome it into their garden. What a thrill it must be to have a range of plants verified--and then find that you have two new species. I can only imagine the excitement.
Title: Re: Allium 2012
Post by: Janis Ruksans on June 02, 2012, 03:41:49 PM
I think allium ellisii flower looks a lot like allium christopii??, Is it higher or lower, or are there other differents in plant or flower?? allium chloropetalum is spectacular !!!. How high is this allium, and what size are it's bulbs??, and when will you offer some....   very beautifull !!
Allium christophii has round inflorescence and it is larger. There soon will be two subspecies included - one looks as traditional (subsp. christophii), another has very hairy leaves, is shorter and not so bright in color. You can see both on attached pictures.
Title: Re: Allium 2012
Post by: mark smyth on June 02, 2012, 08:22:16 PM
Allium chloropetalum

wow that is a beauty
Title: Re: Allium 2012
Post by: TheOnionMan on June 02, 2012, 09:54:39 PM
I'll chime in with all the others showing admiration for Allium chloropetalum, a striking inflorescence.  Also, relative to the hairy subspecies of Allium cristophii, I showed photos of plants from Iran grown by Kurt Vickery, showing the whole plant with those plush hairy leaves;
http://www.srgc.net/forum/index.php?topic=5766.msg137868#msg137868 (http://www.srgc.net/forum/index.php?topic=5766.msg137868#msg137868)

On true Allium ellisii, I find it fascinating that the tepals recurve just slightly backwards or past 180 degrees, to define/mimic the curvature path of the composite inflorescence globe.
Title: Re: Allium 2012
Post by: Stephenb on June 03, 2012, 08:45:48 AM
Fantastic pictures and Mark's comment about ellisii is thought provoking!
Title: Re: Allium 2012
Post by: Janis Ruksans on June 03, 2012, 09:00:05 AM
Shortly ago returned from Kazahstan. Some Alliums from just Chinese border at west end (Shogansay, alt. 2750 m). May be Mark know the name of yellow Allium?
Janis
Title: Re: Allium 2012
Post by: Janis Ruksans on June 03, 2012, 09:19:10 AM
Allium tulipifolium - Kein Kerish, Kazahstan. alt. 515 m
Janis
Title: Re: Allium 2012
Post by: TheOnionMan on June 03, 2012, 02:22:16 PM
Janis, thanks for showing these Allium species from Kazakhstan, good to see photos of them in the wild and with habitat.  From Panayoti Kelaidis' seed collecting trip to Kazakhstan in 2010, I received 23 Allium accessions, of which I had germination on 20 of them, already one species showing buds right now.  Of those I received, I have high hope for good results with A. atrosanguineum, the closely allied yellow A. fedtschenkoanum.  I'm puzzled by the yellow species you show (pure delight to the eyes), at first glance I thought it might be A. chysanthum, or possibly A. fedtschenkoanum, but with flat channeled leaves, it doesn't fit the either species.  I'll work on researching that one.

The fields of Allium tulipifolium (apparently also spelled tulipaefolium) look impressive; this has so often been a misapplied name for plants in cultivation, which have never been true, so its great to see the real thing. Part of the problem is that the name tulipifolium has been confused with A. decipiens, which is a different valid species. I have seed of tulipifolium from of the PK Kazakhstan collection, from the same location in Kiin Kerish.  The habitat photos give good indication about how it needs to be grown. 

If you have more photos of Alliums from Kazakhstan, please show us!
Title: Re: Allium 2012
Post by: wmel on June 03, 2012, 03:13:48 PM
something I don't see every day :)
Title: Re: Allium 2012
Post by: wmel on June 03, 2012, 03:21:26 PM
This allium is sold by a lot of allium specialists as allium carolinianum (see forum last year too), also by me?!, Bus as I know now it isn't allium carolinianum. Does someone know what this is??

Bulbs are white and maximum size is about zift 9, grows very easy and healty
Title: Re: Allium 2012
Post by: wmel on June 03, 2012, 04:36:47 PM
The fields of Allium tulipifolium (apparently also spelled tulipaefolium) look impressive; this has so often been a misapplied name for plants in cultivation, which have never been true, so its great to see the real thing. Part of the problem is that the name tulipifolium has been confused with A. decipiens, which is a different valid species. I have seed of tulipifolium from of the PK Kazakhstan collection, from the same location in Kiin Kerish.  The habitat photos give good indication about how it needs to be grown. 

I post 4 photo's of an allium I have bought as allium decipiens........  Could this be allium tulipaefolium??
(last year you said it wasn't decipiens)
Title: Re: Allium 2012
Post by: wmel on June 03, 2012, 04:51:40 PM
And some more photo's from today ;D ;D

allium litvinovii
allium howelii var. clokeyi
allium pallasii
allium trautveteranum
allium bolanderi mirabile
allium nevskianum x karataviense
Title: Re: Allium 2012
Post by: wmel on June 03, 2012, 05:06:00 PM
Shortly ago returned from Kazahstan. Some Alliums from just Chinese border at west end (Shogansay, alt. 2750 m). May be Mark know the name of yellow Allium?
Janis

Sorry for asking, but isn't allium atropurpureum something else??
I would think your photo is allium atrosanguineum??

http://www.plantarium.ru/page/image/id/46416.html (http://www.plantarium.ru/page/image/id/46416.html)
Title: Re: Allium 2012
Post by: Lvandelft on June 03, 2012, 10:21:06 PM
Wietse, your field looks much better when not raining cats and dogs  ::) ::) :-X
Title: Re: Allium 2012
Post by: Tom Waters on June 03, 2012, 10:53:16 PM
Allium caeruleum
Title: Re: Allium 2012
Post by: TheOnionMan on June 04, 2012, 12:09:54 AM
Sorry for asking, but isn't allium atropurpureum something else??
I would think your photo is allium atrosanguineum??

http://www.plantarium.ru/page/image/id/46416.html (http://www.plantarium.ru/page/image/id/46416.html)

Yes, of course.  In my article "For the Love of Onions" in the NARGS Rock Garden Quarterly - Summer 2011, I describe Allium atrosanguineum and published with permission from Kurt Vickery a photo of that species in a meadow in Kazakhstan.  I guess we're all mixing our "atros" ;D  I hope one day to bring my seedlings to maturity and show the plant in cultivation. 

Wietse, your A. atropurpureum is flowering the same time as mine, he's a photo taken in waning light this evening, not looking too bad after 5" (12.5 cm) of rain yesterday.

[attachthumb=1]

Also looking good now is Allium oreophilum 'Torch', also I'm afraid, taken in dim light which skews the color somewhat.  This year I had a couple seedlings bloom, 4-5 years from seed.

[attachthumb=2]
Title: Re: Allium 2012
Post by: John85 on June 07, 2012, 01:26:28 PM
My allium fistulosum never flowers.As it is nearly a vegetable is it possible that a sterile clone has be selected as for instance for sorrel.Has anyone heard of this?
I have already tried a potash feed:it didn't work.
Title: Re: Allium 2012
Post by: wmel on June 07, 2012, 05:02:51 PM
My allium fistulosum never flowers.As it is nearly a vegetable is it possible that a sterile clone has be selected as for instance for sorrel.Has anyone heard of this?
I have already tried a potash feed:it didn't work.

I have never seen a allium fistulosum that didn't flower (from seed in the second year already)
Are you sure it is allium fistulosum??, Do you have a photo of your plants??
Title: Re: Allium 2012
Post by: John85 on June 07, 2012, 05:25:19 PM
Quite sure.There are two forms for sale at the local markets:the red one and the white one.Referring to the colour of the outer skin of the bulb.I read that there is also a var. bulbiferum but I have never seen that one for sale here.
Sorry no picture.
Title: Re: Allium 2012
Post by: wmel on June 07, 2012, 05:36:03 PM
This is what we grow as allium fistulosum
Title: Re: Allium 2012
Post by: John85 on June 07, 2012, 05:56:46 PM
Yours are a bit "fatter"than mine,you must be even more generous with the manure or your polder soil is of better quality .The tops of mine dry very easily even if the plant is well watered.It is like if they dislike heat and as we had a few days with 28°c.....
Title: Re: Allium 2012
Post by: Janette on June 08, 2012, 07:14:50 AM
Please can anyone suggest a book covering the Allium species, as looking on internet I am not finding anything.

Title: Re: Allium 2012
Post by: Diane Clement on June 08, 2012, 09:07:08 AM
Please can anyone suggest a book covering the Allium species, as looking on internet I am not finding anything.

The only one I know of is "Alliums, the ornamental onions" by Dilys Davies.  It's out of print, but available through second hand sellers such as Abe
http://www.abebooks.co.uk/servlet/SearchResults?an=davies&bt.x=50&bt.y=7&kn=allium+dilys+davies (http://www.abebooks.co.uk/servlet/SearchResults?an=davies&bt.x=50&bt.y=7&kn=allium+dilys+davies)
 or Amazon
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Alliums-Ornamental-Onions-Dilys-Davies/dp/0713470305/ref=sr_1_7?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1339142287&sr=1-7 (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Alliums-Ornamental-Onions-Dilys-Davies/dp/0713470305/ref=sr_1_7?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1339142287&sr=1-7)

It's surprisingly comprehensive, although not without its faults, but it's the best on the subject that we currently have available, until Mark McOnion writes one  ;)  ;D
Title: Re: Allium 2012
Post by: WimB on June 08, 2012, 09:58:26 AM
....until Mark McOnion writes one  ;)  ;D

I've been waiting for that one too  ;) ;) :P
Title: Re: Allium 2012
Post by: Janette on June 08, 2012, 02:18:58 PM
Many thanks Diane. I have now ordered it from Abe books, and I look forward to seeing the contents and hope that it covers some of the smaller species.
Title: Re: Allium 2012
Post by: Lori S. on June 08, 2012, 03:29:02 PM
... it's the best on the subject that we currently have available, until Mark McOnion writes one  ;)  ;D

Janette, you may find Bulbs of North America, to which Mark McDonough was a major contributor, to be a very helpful resource too!
Title: Re: Allium 2012
Post by: wmel on June 08, 2012, 06:05:42 PM
Please can anyone suggest a book covering the Allium species, as looking on internet I am not finding anything.

There is also the book: "A field guide to the Bulbs of Greece" by Christopher Grey-Wilson
In this book you find about 35 alliums and very, very much other bulbs......
Title: Re: Allium 2012
Post by: wmel on June 11, 2012, 09:19:10 PM
Some photo's from today
Title: Re: Allium 2012
Post by: Michael J Campbell on June 11, 2012, 09:27:15 PM
What is the name of the blue one in the first picture.?
Title: Re: Allium 2012
Post by: wmel on June 11, 2012, 10:25:42 PM
What is the name of the blue one in the first picture.?

That is allium caesium
Title: Re: Allium 2012
Post by: Stephenb on June 23, 2012, 12:52:16 PM
Anyone recognise this Allium, received as A. meteoricum. I was struck by the rather smart black pedicels which on first glance thought was a black aphid attack  ;)
Title: Re: Allium 2012
Post by: TheOnionMan on June 23, 2012, 03:38:23 PM
Whether on NARGS or SRGC, I'm still mystified about which allium this could be ;)

I wonder if the pedicel color carries any diagnostic importance; often pedicel color can vary within a species.  I googled allium "black pedicels" and it came up with our very own previous conversation about some forms of Allium ochotense (typically this is a syn. of A. victorialis) with dark pedicels. ;)  Allium cernuum has pedicels that range from green, through shades of reddish and purplish, and tones of gray to near black, thus not useful as a diagnostic characteristic in that case.

Stephen, are the leaves hollow in cross section, and do the leaves feel scabrous along the leaf margins?

Very interesting Allium whatever it is. 

Must photograph first bloom on an Allium from Kazakhstan from Panayotis Kelaidis' 2010 collecting expedition, it looks akin to A. saxatile, but I think it may be closer to A. kurssanovii.
Title: Re: Allium 2012
Post by: Stephenb on June 24, 2012, 04:47:22 PM
Thanks, Mark. Here's a picture - didn't feel particularly scabrous.

Title: Re: Allium 2012
Post by: TheOnionMan on June 25, 2012, 01:33:32 AM
Hmmm, fistulose leaves, has very much the look of a chives ally, perhaps a dark pedicel form of Allium ledebourianum?  Just a wild guess. ;)
Title: Re: Allium 2012
Post by: Stephenb on June 25, 2012, 08:23:27 AM
Thanks Mark! What's the main diagnostic separating ledebourianum and schoenoprasum?
Title: Re: Allium 2012
Post by: TheOnionMan on June 25, 2012, 04:05:49 PM
Thanks Mark! What's the main diagnostic separating ledebourianum and schoenoprasum?

The differences are slight, largely separated by length of stamen filaments:

Flora of China, drawing of Allium schoenoprasum & ledebourianum
http://www.efloras.org/object_page.aspx?object_id=60290&flora_id=2 (http://www.efloras.org/object_page.aspx?object_id=60290&flora_id=2)

Allium schoenoprasum - filaments 1/3--1/2(--2/3) as long as perianth segments

Allium maximowiczii    - filaments slightly shorter than to equaling perianth segments

Allium ledebourianum  - filaments longer than perianth segments
Title: Re: Allium 2012
Post by: Stephenb on July 09, 2012, 02:34:00 PM
I received this as Allium karelinii (SRGC seed from 2007).

From FOC: Leaves, leaf sheaths, and scape scabrous-denticulate along angles. Fl. Aug.
Meadows, along streams; 2000--2500 m. Xinjiang (Altay Shan, Tarbagatay Shan, Tian Shan) [Kazakhstan, Mongolia, Russia].

It  doesn't feel obviously rough. Suggestions?
Title: Re: Allium 2012
Post by: wmel on July 15, 2012, 11:08:32 AM
There is not much interest in the allium forum the last weeks......
Does nobody have some nice photo's of special alliums, or some beautiful photo's of more normal alliums...

I received this as Allium karelinii (SRGC seed from 2007).

From FOC: Leaves, leaf sheaths, and scape scabrous-denticulate along angles. Fl. Aug.
Meadows, along streams; 2000--2500 m. Xinjiang (Altay Shan, Tarbagatay Shan, Tian Shan) [Kazakhstan, Mongolia, Russia].

It  doesn't feel obviously rough. Suggestions?

For as far as I can find, it looks correct to me, but I don't know allium karelinii. To me it looks like a kind of allium schoenoprasum??

http://www.plantarium.ru/page/image/id/118764.html (http://www.plantarium.ru/page/image/id/118764.html)

A photo of our allium "garden" at this moment
Title: Re: Allium 2012
Post by: Magnar on July 25, 2012, 08:52:10 AM
Too many unnamed Alliums in my garden. Here is one of them, about 45 cm tall. Would anyone please suggest a name for it. Thanks.

Title: Re: Allium 2012
Post by: wmel on July 25, 2012, 12:06:46 PM
Too many unnamed Alliums in my garden. Here is one of them, about 45 cm tall. Would anyone please suggest a name for it. Thanks.

It looks like allium amphibolum.
Is it flowering sometimes 2 times a year, and is it making very much massive seeds??
Title: Re: Allium 2012
Post by: Lvandelft on July 25, 2012, 10:34:28 PM

This Allium was shown this week at the Flowershow in Lisse (see also
http://www.srgc.net/forum/index.php?topic=1315.msg252234#msg252234 (http://www.srgc.net/forum/index.php?topic=1315.msg252234#msg252234)
and it was grown from seed named Allium flavum var. minus.
Interesting is the strange habit, so possibly it might have another name?
Anybody seen this strange form before??
Title: Re: Allium 2012
Post by: Thomas Huber on July 27, 2012, 01:33:09 PM
Luit, I have observed the same habit this year on A. obliquum in my garden. Could this be caused by strange weather and temperatures in spring?

I also have two unnamed Alliums flowering in my garden today. The bigger one looks like A. amphibolum like shown from Wietse above, the second is smaller. I don't know where I got them from, but probably both were a souvenir from Greece. Can anybody give an exact ID?
Thanks in advance.
Title: Re: Allium 2012
Post by: David Nicholson on July 27, 2012, 07:35:18 PM
Hi Thomas, long time no read ;D
Title: Re: Allium 2012
Post by: wmel on July 27, 2012, 11:45:35 PM
This Allium was shown this week at the Flowershow in Lisse (see also
http://www.srgc.net/forum/index.php?topic=1315.msg252234#msg252234 (http://www.srgc.net/forum/index.php?topic=1315.msg252234#msg252234)
and it was grown from seed named Allium flavum var. minus.
Interesting is the strange habit, so possibly it might have another name?
Anybody seen this strange form before??

Your foto is showing allium flavum var nanum, and it shows the plant as it normaly is.
Title: Re: Allium 2012
Post by: wmel on July 27, 2012, 11:50:49 PM
Luit, I have observed the same habit this year on A. obliquum in my garden. Could this be caused by strange weather and temperatures in spring?

I also have two unnamed Alliums flowering in my garden today. The bigger one looks like A. amphibolum like shown from Wietse above, the second is smaller. I don't know where I got them from, but probably both were a souvenir from Greece. Can anybody give an exact ID?
Thanks in advance.


The first (pink) allium looks like some kind of allium nutans, or a seedling from this allium, The second looks like allium saxatille
Title: Re: Allium 2012
Post by: Thomas Huber on July 28, 2012, 08:34:57 AM
Thanks Wietse for your ID - finally I have names for these wonderful plants  :D

Hi David. Yes, it's been a long time since I was here, wasn't sure if anybody will still know me  ;D
Title: Re: Allium 2012
Post by: Maggi Young on July 28, 2012, 11:28:21 AM
Thanks Wietse for your ID - finally I have names for these wonderful plants  :D

Hi David. Yes, it's been a long time since I was here, wasn't sure if anybody will still know me  ;D

 Oh, Hubi, how could we forget you?  :-*
Title: Re: Allium 2012
Post by: TheOnionMan on July 28, 2012, 03:39:22 PM
Luit, I have observed the same habit this year on A. obliquum in my garden. Could this be caused by strange weather and temperatures in spring?

I also have two unnamed Alliums flowering in my garden today. The bigger one looks like A. amphibolum like shown from Wietse above, the second is smaller. I don't know where I got them from, but probably both were a souvenir from Greece. Can anybody give an exact ID?
Thanks in advance.

Thomas, it looks like the yellowish one has flat leaves, which led to my immediate impression it is Allium ericetorum.  Some photos will show white flowers tinged pinkish, but most often this species has pale yellow flowers in tight heads.  Mine is in flower now.

Allium saxatile has nearly rounded or terete leaves, these bloom at the same time as ericetorum (now); I have several forms in flower now.  There are yellowish forms of A. saxatile (aka synonym A. marschallianum), although more commonly the variable saxatile has blooms of white to pink.

By the way, did you make the trip in search of Allium narcissiflorum?
Title: Re: Allium 2012
Post by: Magnar on July 28, 2012, 05:45:25 PM
It looks like allium amphibolum.
Is it flowering sometimes 2 times a year, and is it making very much massive seeds??

I don't think it can be A. amphibolum. From what I see of pics on the net, the leaves don't seem to fit.

Title: Re: Allium 2012
Post by: Lvandelft on July 28, 2012, 06:42:37 PM
Your foto is showing allium flavum var nanum, and it shows the plant as it normaly is.
Thanks Wietse, I'm sure that the person who showed the pot will read these lines, otherwise I'll tell him next Monday :)
Title: Re: Allium 2012
Post by: Palustris on July 29, 2012, 04:47:35 PM
Anyone know anything about Allium loratum?
TIA
Title: Re: Allium 2012
Post by: Maggi Young on July 29, 2012, 05:43:20 PM
Not a whole lot, Eric.   :-\    I think it is one of those names  that bulbs are offered under, but which turn out not to be A. loratum.

I think the real thing is about six inches tall ( 15cms)with quite little bulbs, white flowered and from pretty high altitudes  in the Himalayas.......... is that any use?


There are a couple of links in the Forum .....
http://www.srgc.net/forum/index.php?topic=8297.msg224726#msg224726 (http://www.srgc.net/forum/index.php?topic=8297.msg224726#msg224726)
From MarkMcDonough
...."just a well-established horticultural misnomer/mis-ID that lives on in perpetuity, similar to the way the NOT-Allium-loratum is well established in the large commercial bulb trade, while the true dwarf white Allium loratum lives in quiet alpine solitude away from any bulb farms."

From Luit VanDelft
 Scans  here: http://www.srgc.net/forum/index.php?topic=1315.msg203863#msg203863 (http://www.srgc.net/forum/index.php?topic=1315.msg203863#msg203863)  from The Journal of Botany, British and Foreign, article entitled "On the Alliums of India, China, and Japan", by J.G. Baker, Vol.III page 290, published 1874

and of The Flora of British India by Sir J.D. Hooker, Vol. VI. Orchideae to Cyperaceae, published in 1894




Title: Re: Allium 2012
Post by: Thomas Huber on July 29, 2012, 06:01:49 PM
Thomas, it looks like the yellowish one has flat leaves, which led to my immediate impression it is Allium ericetorum.  Some photos will show white flowers tinged pinkish, but most often this species has pale yellow flowers in tight heads.  Mine is in flower now.

Allium saxatile has nearly rounded or terete leaves, these bloom at the same time as ericetorum (now); I have several forms in flower now.  There are yellowish forms of A. saxatile (aka synonym A. marschallianum), although more commonly the variable saxatile has blooms of white to pink.

By the way, did you make the trip in search of Allium narcissiflorum?

Hi Mark.
You're right - I've just observed the leaves of my yellow Allium and they are surely flat, not rounded - so this makes them to A. ericetorum, thanks for your help!

Yes, I've made the trip to the A. narcissiuflorum habitat - Chris and I have been there with the Mountainbikes, but as we assumed, it was too early in the end of March. We were right to find hundreds of white Crocus versicolor and thousands of Narcissus pseudonarcissus, but we didn't find this wonderful Allium  :-[  Weather wasn't fortunate with us, on 2000m we had only 4°C and 10 meters of sight so we decided to turn around and repeat the tour on one of our next journeys...
Title: Re: Allium 2012
Post by: Palustris on July 29, 2012, 06:09:57 PM
Thanks  Maggi. The bulbs certainly are small and the supplier is  more likely to have the real thing than most. Question is how to grow it to see what it really is.
Title: Re: Allium 2012
Post by: Maggi Young on July 29, 2012, 06:17:43 PM
More about this onion and it's mistaken ID here :
http://www.srgc.net/forum/index.php?topic=1315.msg203080#msg203080 (http://www.srgc.net/forum/index.php?topic=1315.msg203080#msg203080) - doesn't seem to be any advice about growing the darn thing though!
Title: Re: Allium 2012
Post by: Stephenb on July 29, 2012, 07:30:26 PM
I got this as Allium aciphyllum - could it be the real thing?
Title: Re: Allium 2012
Post by: TheOnionMan on July 29, 2012, 07:50:23 PM
Thanks  Maggi. The bulbs certainly are small and the supplier is  more likely to have the real thing than most. Question is how to grow it to see what it really is.

Maggi: a good summary of past discussion on misnomer Allium loratum, thanks.

Palustris:  I am of the firm opinion that Allium loratum is not in cultivation whatsoever.  I don't believe any supplier will be "more likely to have the real thing" because the misidentification is so old and entrenched, that it is impossible to find anything that begins to look close to the originally described plant.
Title: Re: Allium 2012
Post by: TheOnionMan on July 29, 2012, 08:37:30 PM
I got this as Allium aciphyllum - could it be the real thing?

Stephen, is your Allium blooming now?  It reminds me of Allium amplectans, particularly in the way the fading blooms "invest" the ovary, becoming papery and wrapping themselves around the ovary, although that species a spring bloomer. The stamens are supposed to be 1.25 x tepal length, on your plant they look slighter shorter than tepals?  Allium aciphyllum has dark brown reticulated bulb tunics... what do the bulbs and leaves look like?

Here's the Flora of China illustration (notice the long slender reticulated bulbs):
http://www.efloras.org/object_page.aspx?object_id=60235&flora_id=2 (http://www.efloras.org/object_page.aspx?object_id=60235&flora_id=2)

Title: Re: Allium 2012
Post by: Stephenb on August 03, 2012, 09:26:42 AM
Sorry, Mark, I missed your reply - I will check at the weekend...

In the meantime, here's a new one I got as Allium stenodon - it seems about right from a quick check of FOC. What do you think?

Title: Re: Allium 2012
Post by: TheOnionMan on August 04, 2012, 08:14:15 PM
Sorry, Mark, I missed your reply - I will check at the weekend...

In the meantime, here's a new one I got as Allium stenodon - it seems about right from a quick check of FOC. What do you think?

Oooh, that likes like the right plant, indeed matching FOC, right down to the long teeth on alternate filaments, and the flat leaves.  Beautiful coloring, it is rarer than rare to see this in clutivation, where did you get it? It is once listed as a variety of A. plurifoliatum.

Soon I will post a photo of Allium henryi, just coming into bloom now, in the FOC Allium key, this species is in a couplet with A. stenodon, so stenodon and henryi are closely related.  My A. henryi came as A. cyathophorum from Chen Yi about 10 years ago, but turned out to be this light blue species,  In previous years something (a rabbit) nip off most of the flower stems, hope that doesn't happen this year.  I will send you a PM about stenodon/henryi seed swap  ;)
Title: Re: Allium 2012
Post by: Stephenb on August 04, 2012, 08:37:36 PM
Wow!

Sounds like a good deal  :)
Title: Re: Allium 2012
Post by: Stephenb on August 04, 2012, 08:43:58 PM
Interesting that cyathophorum can also result in rarities not just the other way round or is cyathophorum (i.e., not farreri) rare in culture?
Title: Re: Allium 2012
Post by: Stephenb on August 04, 2012, 09:56:01 PM
Stephen, is your Allium blooming now?  It reminds me of Allium amplectans, particularly in the way the fading blooms "invest" the ovary, becoming papery and wrapping themselves around the ovary, although that species a spring bloomer. The stamens are supposed to be 1.25 x tepal length, on your plant they look slighter shorter than tepals?  Allium aciphyllum has dark brown reticulated bulb tunics... what do the bulbs and leaves look like?

Here's the Flora of China illustration (notice the long slender reticulated bulbs):
http://www.efloras.org/object_page.aspx?object_id=60235&flora_id=2 (http://www.efloras.org/object_page.aspx?object_id=60235&flora_id=2)

Well it's not that - it is flowering now (just about over). Here's a couple more pictures - yes stamens are bout 0.75 x tepal length
Title: Re: Allium 2012
Post by: TheOnionMan on August 05, 2012, 02:49:17 AM
Well it's not that - it is flowering now (just about over). Here's a couple more pictures - yes stamens are bout 0.75 x tepal length

Stephen, I think you definitely have Allium amplectans, it has small rounded bulbs with a reddish membranous bulb coat, here's a link to photo of 4 allium species that I bare-rooted and profiled, Item G is Allium amplectans.  In case anyone is wondering, Item E is A. przewalskianum, F is A. heldreichii, and H is a dwarf white form of Allium schoenoprasum.
http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Allium/Allium_profiles_4.jpg (http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Allium/Allium_profiles_4.jpg)
Title: Re: Allium 2012
Post by: Stephenb on August 05, 2012, 07:19:54 AM
Thanks once again, Mark! I don't mind so much when misidentified things turn out to be species I don't grow before - my search for the real aciphyllum continues...(have received imposters 3 times now!)
Title: Re: Allium 2012
Post by: TheOnionMan on August 05, 2012, 01:39:46 PM
Interesting that cyathophorum can also result in rarities not just the other way round or is cyathophorum (i.e., not farreri) rare in culture?

Indeed it is Stephen, the irony is not lost on me.  In my one-and-only-to-be order to Chen Yi a decade ago, I opted to order the plain species Allium cyathophorum (versus the ubiquitous var. farreri) because the type species is not in cultivation that I know of.  The photos of Allium cyathophorum var. cyathophorum in FOC show a really lovely Allium, the tepals more rounded in the type species. But I'm happy to get Allium henryi out of the deal.
http://www.efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=2&taxon_id=200027468 (http://www.efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=2&taxon_id=200027468)
Title: Re: Allium 2012
Post by: mark smyth on August 05, 2012, 04:32:33 PM
Does anyone want seeds of A. amplectans, sikkimensis and Forescate?
Title: Re: Allium 2012
Post by: John85 on August 05, 2012, 05:55:22 PM
Mark,
Can I have some seeds of A.sikkimensis,please.
Title: Re: Allium 2012
Post by: mark smyth on August 05, 2012, 07:42:23 PM
John pm or email me your address
Title: Re: Allium 2012
Post by: Palustris on August 18, 2012, 08:56:47 PM
Very pleased to have flowered this. Bought the original plant from Mike Smith before he retired and lost it. But before I could throw away the 'empty' pot a couple of seedlings appeared. Taken a while but here they are in flower. Allium wallichii (or at least it is until someone says different)
 
Title: Re: Allium 2012
Post by: mark smyth on August 19, 2012, 10:15:54 PM
I saw this Allium today. It looks like A. paniculatum but mine doesnt produce bulbils
Title: Re: Allium 2012
Post by: TheOnionMan on August 19, 2012, 10:26:15 PM
Mark, it could be Allium carinatum (produces bulbils, but typically with rosy-purple flowers the same color as A. carinatum ssp. pulchellum), or more likely, a form of A. oleraceum, closely allied and similar to Allium paniculatum, but with bulbils and rather variable in flower color, from light pink, to deeper pinks, to tawny brownish coppery forms (I grow such a form from Richard Dadd, I believe collected in Morocco).  So, I would say what you're seeing is Allium oleraceum.

And then again, it is not rare for so-called non-bulbilliferous allium species to sport an ocassional bulbilliferous form; I've witnessed bulbillifery in many species that are not supposed to have bulbils, including A. cernuum, senescens, nutans, flavum, stellatum, hollandicum, and many others.
Title: Re: Allium 2012
Post by: mark smyth on August 19, 2012, 10:30:26 PM
in a whispering voice - I aquired some bulbils  8) ::) :o

Thanks Mark
Title: Re: Allium 2012
Post by: Maggi Young on August 19, 2012, 10:45:10 PM
.....
And then again, it is not rare for so-called non-bulbilliferous allium species to sport an ocassional bulbilliferous form; I've witnessed bulbillifery in many species that are not supposed to have bulbils, including A. cernuum, senescens, nutans, flavum, stellatum, hollandicum, and many others.
Would weather conditions have anything to do with that sort of random bulbil production, McMark?
Title: Re: Allium 2012
Post by: TheOnionMan on August 20, 2012, 01:57:24 AM
Would weather conditions have anything to do with that sort of random bulbil production, McMark?

I believe "bulbillifery" is genetic; almost all Allium species have the propensity to produce bulbils, even if rarely so.  In my non-scientific trials, I would grow on bulbils from species not normally associated with having bulbils (such as from A. cernuum, senescens, and angulosum), and plants grown from such bulbils produce a much higher percentage of bulbilliferous progeny.  Thus a case for never propagating from bulbils, opting for seed propagation instead.
Title: Re: Allium 2012
Post by: Maggi Young on August 20, 2012, 09:26:42 AM
Thanks McMark.             Isn't 'bulbillifery' just a fun word?
Title: Re: Allium 2012
Post by: TheOnionMan on August 20, 2012, 01:57:10 PM
Thanks McMark.             Isn't 'bulbillifery' just a fun word?

Indeed it is :D

http://books.google.com/books?id=wbeW6_yVJbgC&pg=PA110&lpg=PA110&dq=bulbillifery&source=bl&ots=NXhChlBOWo&sig=1ugtq4VVwu4l1EJvfkNNv-EzuVY&sa=X&ei=XjMyUNy_JMGA6QHRsIGIAQ&ved=0CAYQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=bulbillifery&f=false (http://books.google.com/books?id=wbeW6_yVJbgC&pg=PA110&lpg=PA110&dq=bulbillifery&source=bl&ots=NXhChlBOWo&sig=1ugtq4VVwu4l1EJvfkNNv-EzuVY&sa=X&ei=XjMyUNy_JMGA6QHRsIGIAQ&ved=0CAYQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=bulbillifery&f=false)
Title: Re: Allium 2012
Post by: Janis Ruksans on September 01, 2012, 05:46:43 AM
From summer pictures still left unshown this beautifull Allium christophii from Iran
But few days ago I pictures one of latest americans Allium sanbornii subsp. sanbornii - grown from Ron Ratko seeds (05-54, Northern Sierra Nevada, CA, ~1300m - By Ron: This is the last allium to flower in the foothills of the Northern Sierra Nevada).
Janis
Title: Re: Allium 2012
Post by: PeterT on September 02, 2012, 10:32:09 PM
A visiting forumist from Romania  has been taking pictures in my garden while I was potting.
Razvans eye and camera lit on a few Alliums in the rockery.
The A virgunculae is from the Wallaces and is a little taller than another pot which I have of it.
The A beesianum came from them too, I think that it may have an Archibald history but am not sure.
The A saxatile came from Leonid Bondarenko
Title: Re: Allium 2012
Post by: TheOnionMan on September 03, 2012, 02:21:16 AM
Peter, your Allium virgunculae looks suspiciously like Allium daghestanicum to me rather than A. virgunculae; can you show us a whole plant shot to see the foliage characteristics.  Here's a link that shows A. daghestanicum.
http://nargs.org/smf/index.php?topic=964.msg19379#msg19379 (http://nargs.org/smf/index.php?topic=964.msg19379#msg19379)

Your photo of the lovely Allium beesianum reminds me that the form I received from a correspondant in France looks very much like your plant, the interesting feature is that it would produce a few innocuous miniscule bulbils in the flower head that would start sprouting, and these tiny sprouts could be plucked off and planted to start new plants. Your plant shows these sprouts.

Janis, love both the alliums you show, that is a rather special deep color for of A. cristophii you show.  I was able to grow and flower the Californian Allium sanbornii for a few years, but it seems a challenge in the New England climate, and has become just a memory.
Title: Re: Allium 2012
Post by: pehe on September 06, 2012, 09:19:22 AM
Allium komarovianum flowering for the first time for me.

Poul
Title: Re: Allium 2012
Post by: PeterT on September 06, 2012, 07:56:41 PM
It looks lovely Poul
Title: Re: Allium 2012
Post by: TheOnionMan on September 07, 2012, 02:01:26 PM
Allium komarovianum flowering for the first time for me.

Poul

The name komarovianum is a synonym for Allium sacculiferum, a species very close to Allium thunbergii.  I suspect your plant may actually be an Allium senescens form or hybrid that often goes around under the name of "komarovianum". What is the foliage like as it relates to the stem, on the true A. sacculiferum (aka, synonym A. komarovianum), the foliage sheaths the stem 1/4 to 1/2 the length of the stem, whereas in senescens (and its hybrids with species like nutans, angulosum, etc) the foliage is mostly basal and the stems are naked for the most part.

http://www.efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=2&taxon_id=240001053 (http://www.efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=2&taxon_id=240001053)
Title: Re: Allium 2012
Post by: pehe on September 10, 2012, 12:26:29 PM
Mark, thank you for the name correction. The pic shows you were right. I am no expert in alliums, I have only few a species, mostly autumn flowering.

Poul
Title: Re: Allium 2012
Post by: Magnar on September 16, 2012, 11:27:58 AM
Two unnamed Alliums.

As I have said before, I have lost the names of too many Alliums in my garden. Hopefully someone here can help me with a name for these two.

No 1. about 20 cm tall, flowering in August here in North Norway

No 2. Abour 50 cm tall. The stem has very charactreistsic sharp edges. Flowering in August.

Thanks in advance


 
Title: Re: Allium 2012
Post by: pehe on September 17, 2012, 09:17:59 AM
Two unnamed Alliums.

As I have said before, I have lost the names of too many Alliums in my garden. Hopefully someone here can help me with a name for these two.

No 1. about 20 cm tall, flowering in August here in North Norway

No 2. Abour 50 cm tall. The stem has very charactreistsic sharp edges. Flowering in August.

Thanks in advance

Magnar, No 2 looks like Allium wallichii to me.

Poul
Title: Re: Allium 2012
Post by: pehe on September 17, 2012, 09:22:15 AM
Allium callimischon haemosticum in my green house today. Close up it is one of the prettiest autumn flowering alliums.

Poul
Title: Re: Allium 2012
Post by: Magnar on September 17, 2012, 10:37:06 AM
Magnar, No 2 looks like Allium wallichii to me.

Poul

Mange takk, Poul, ser ut som du har helt rett  :). Jeg hadde den i min såliste fra 2005

Thanks a lot , Poul, seems you are right  :) I had in in my sowing list for 2005

Magnar
Title: Re: Allium 2012
Post by: Magnar on September 17, 2012, 10:38:04 AM
Allium callimischon haemosticum in my green house today. Close up it is one of the prettiest autumn flowering alliums.

Poul

Lovely plant, I guess it's not hardy in the open garden up here

Magnar
Title: Re: Allium 2012
Post by: TheOnionMan on September 18, 2012, 02:14:52 AM
Magnar, I agree with Poul, your second Allium looks like a very fine form of Allium wallichii.  The first species, with few-flowered heads of what looks like Allium cyaneum with exserted stamens, I feel fairly confident is Allium henryi, a species from China that I grow.  It is a distinctive species, with blue flowers that look like cyaneum with exserted stamens, but much fewer-flowered than cyaneum. Unlike A. cyaneum, Allium henryi has flat leaves, which can be seen in your plant.

Poul, your Allium callimischon haemosticum ssp. haemostictum is surely a welcome and lovely autumn blooming miniature.  I've not grown it, but the other form, Allium callimischon ssp. callimischon is very hardy here, one would hope that the nice red-spotted form would be hardy too, but perhaps not.
Title: Re: Allium 2012
Post by: Magnar on September 18, 2012, 10:19:27 PM
Thanks, Mark, for another name. Always good to be able to put in a labe beside the plants.

Here some Alliums from eralier this summer. All with names, and correct ones I hope.

Allium crenulatum
Allium heldereichii
Allium paradoxum var normale
Allium validum
Title: Re: Allium 2012
Post by: Stephenb on September 19, 2012, 12:12:05 PM
I received this one as Allium kermesinum a few years ago and asked in 2009 if anyone could confirm its identity, but this was before the real Allium guys joined us and I didn't get an answer.   Appreciate if someone could give their opinion:

(http://www.srgc.net/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3028.0;attach=155837;image)
Title: Re: Allium 2012
Post by: Stephenb on September 20, 2012, 11:14:26 AM
I showed some pictures in 2010 of a large Allium seen in the UK and collected from an Indian market. See the following link:
http://www.srgc.net/forum/index.php?topic=5766.msg167762#msg167762 (http://www.srgc.net/forum/index.php?topic=5766.msg167762#msg167762)

It was tentatively identified as Allium hookeri by Mark and Dr. Reinhard Fritsch at Gaterseleben.

I now have a plant which I will try to overwinter for the first time. This is what the roots look like. I only have the one plant and am a bit concerned of its hardiness. Is it possible to propagate from these roots?
 
Title: Re: Allium 2012
Post by: Stephenb on September 20, 2012, 12:01:28 PM
Any suggestions for this one which is emerging very slowly now (in the cool weather)?
Title: Re: Allium 2012
Post by: Stephenb on September 20, 2012, 12:16:49 PM
This dark sparsely flowered Allium wallichii is flowering for the first time. mainly as it's not had very good conditions. I had noted it as Allium wallichii "Dwarf" but it isn't dwarf (but seed propagated so wouldn't necessarily come true). It is much later (maybe 3 weeks later) than my other wallichiis...
Title: Re: Allium 2012
Post by: TheOnionMan on September 21, 2012, 01:56:22 AM
That's an awesome dark form of A. wallichii!  For some reason, I'm not at all successful with this species.  I had good germination from the seed you sent me, only a few seedlings came back the following spring, but I suspect they're gone now after our HOT HOT HOT summer.  I shall weigh in on the other ID plants over the weekend, I'm supposed to be working tonight!

Magnar, all 4 of the alliums you posted look correct; nice selection.
Title: Re: Allium 2012
Post by: olegKon on September 21, 2012, 08:38:42 PM
Magnar, I've just seen the allium you asked about on July,25 (page 8 of this thread). As far as I understood you haven't received the right ID so far (at least I've failed to find it here). Can it be Allium carolinianum?
Title: Re: Allium 2012
Post by: TheOnionMan on September 22, 2012, 03:34:46 AM
Magnar, I've just seen the allium you asked about on July,25 (page 8 of this thread). As far as I understood you haven't received the right ID so far (at least I've failed to find it here). Can it be Allium carolinianum?

Oleg, I think you're right, Magnar's plant looks like A. carolinianum.  I hadn't yet weighed in on the ID, as I've had so little time to check in here.
Title: Re: Allium 2012
Post by: Magnar on September 22, 2012, 10:18:34 AM
Thanks, both of you.  :) I have been thinking of that name myself too.
Title: Re: Allium 2012
Post by: TheOnionMan on September 23, 2012, 02:54:47 PM
I received this one as Allium kermesinum a few years ago and asked in 2009 if anyone could confirm its identity, but this was before the real Allium guys joined us and I didn't get an answer.   Appreciate if someone could give their opinion:

(http://www.srgc.net/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3028.0;attach=155837;image)

Stephen, this does indeed look correct as Allium kermesinum, it fits the description of the flowers perfectly, namely heads 8-20 flowered, outer tepals cymbiform (boat shaped), stamens exserted, short persistent 2-valve spathe.  Can't see any leaves on your plant, but they are described as 10-25 cm x 1-5 mm wide, flat. The flowers are simply described as "red", but can be pale as well. 

There are some good links that show this species, here are a few.

Great photos in this link, the 2nd and 3rd photo look just like your plant.
http://flora.nhm-wien.ac.at/Seiten-Arten/Allium-kermesinum.htm (http://flora.nhm-wien.ac.at/Seiten-Arten/Allium-kermesinum.htm)

On NARGS:
http://www.nargs.org/nargswiki/tiki-browse_image.php?imageId=3177 (http://www.nargs.org/nargswiki/tiki-browse_image.php?imageId=3177)

On alpinegarden.se:
http://alpinegarden.se/plants/Allium%20kermesinum.htm (http://alpinegarden.se/plants/Allium%20kermesinum.htm)

On the Republic of Slovenia site (interesting history of this species, also note that their plant photos all have super-saturated color, the red color here looks exaggerated)
http://www.vlada.si/en/about_slovenia/geography/pearls_of_the_floral_wealth_of_slovenia/crimson_or_kamnik_leek_allium_kermesinum/ (http://www.vlada.si/en/about_slovenia/geography/pearls_of_the_floral_wealth_of_slovenia/crimson_or_kamnik_leek_allium_kermesinum/)

I have grown and flowered this Slovenian endemic, took years to get to flowering size, and something (rabbits?) would invariably eat it to the base each year, one year it escaped the varmints and produced a small impoverished head of bloom, then decided to exit this world soon thereafter.

Stephen, as to your small, late-blooming white-in-bud Allium, please show us what it looks like in flower.
Title: Re: Allium 2012
Post by: TheOnionMan on September 23, 2012, 03:00:31 PM
I showed some pictures in 2010 of a large Allium seen in the UK and collected from an Indian market. See the following link:
http://www.srgc.net/forum/index.php?topic=5766.msg167762#msg167762 (http://www.srgc.net/forum/index.php?topic=5766.msg167762#msg167762)

It was tentatively identified as Allium hookeri by Mark and Dr. Reinhard Fritsch at Gaterseleben.

I now have a plant which I will try to overwinter for the first time. This is what the roots look like. I only have the one plant and am a bit concerned of its hardiness. Is it possible to propagate from these roots?

I don't think it is possible to separate out these fleshy roots to propagate the plant.  In the few species that have such roots, when I tried such propagation (usually as an accident when dividing up a clump, and breaking off some roots), it has not worked.
Title: Re: Allium 2012
Post by: Stephenb on September 23, 2012, 07:20:11 PM
Thanks, Mark - yes the leaves also fit the bill (picture)...coincidentally, my plant came from Magnar in 2004!
Title: Re: Allium 2012
Post by: Magnar on September 23, 2012, 09:07:52 PM
Thanks, Mark - yes the leaves also fit the bill (picture)...coincidentally, my plant came from Magnar in 2004!

Good to know the plant was correctly named. I got the seeds from a friend in Montreal in 2004. She usually has well identified plants. But she is not able now to tell where she got the seeds.
Title: Re: Allium 2012
Post by: Stephenb on September 23, 2012, 09:11:37 PM
It says Ex-Slovakia on my label..
Title: Re: Allium 2012
Post by: Magnar on September 23, 2012, 10:26:30 PM
It says Ex-Slovakia on my label..

Yes thats what my friend wrote on the seed pack. But no further infromation.
Title: Re: Allium 2012
Post by: TheOnionMan on October 07, 2012, 03:42:50 PM
At peak bloom now are two Asian allium species, the purple has been distributed as Allium aff. thunbergii DJH (Dan J. Hinkley).  I believe it is actually Allium sacculiferum.  The white allium is a particularly handsome robust form of Allium thunbergii alba I picked up at a general garden center.  In the first photo, the composition was chosen to show the typical disposition A. thunbergii flowers; lax, flowers facing out and downwards, an informal mop-head, florets with very long stamens; whereas Allium sacculiferum (almost always misidentified as thunbergii) has tight spheres of bloom, shorter pedicels thus smaller inflorescence globes, much higher number of florets per head, among other differences.

[attachthumb=1]


Two views of Allium thunbergii alba and purple Allium sacculiferum.  In the first of the three views, if you look closely, a tiny Allium virgunculae is starting to show purple bud color in the lower right.

[attachthumb=2]

[attachthumb=3]


A closer view of Allium sacculiferum; the saucer-shaped forets are densely packed into spherical heads, so showy.

[attachthumb=4]


View of Allium thunbergii alba, with such long and lovely "eyelashes":

[attachthumb=5]
Title: Re: Allium 2012
Post by: shelagh on October 07, 2012, 04:43:51 PM
Just one shot of our favourite Allium at the Loughborough Show yesterday.
Title: Re: Allium 2012
Post by: TheOnionMan on October 07, 2012, 07:57:42 PM
Shelagh, is the plant shown the same as seen in the following link?
http://www.alpinegardensociety.net/discussion/atshows//AUTUMN+SOUTH+SHOW+/16795/?page=3 (http://www.alpinegardensociety.net/discussion/atshows//AUTUMN+SOUTH+SHOW+/16795/?page=3)

I do not believe this is Allium virgunculae; in my estimation it is Allium togasii (also been published as A. togashii).  Looks just like a couple forms I grew of Allium togasii, both are late blooming (one form I grew flowered in August, another form flowered in September), but both grew upright, one was about 20 cm, the later blooming one grew up to 40 cm.  Allium togasii is typically this palest pinkish-white color, with open starry blooms as seen in the subject plant.  Allium virgunculae will be much smaller, shorter, and rather few-flowered.
Title: Re: Allium 2012
Post by: Diane Clement on October 07, 2012, 09:13:42 PM
Shelagh, is the plant shown the same as seen in the following link?
http://www.alpinegardensociety.net/discussion/atshows//AUTUMN+SOUTH+SHOW+/16795/?page=3 (http://www.alpinegardensociety.net/discussion/atshows//AUTUMN+SOUTH+SHOW+/16795/?page=3)

Mark, this is the same plant, shown by forumist MartinR.  I didn't think it was A virgunculae as I thought that to be a much shorter plant.  I am growing a very similar plant to Martin's, mine is labelled A daghestanicum, interesting mine came from NARGS seed sown in 2001.  Thanks for your help in identifying it.
Title: Re: Allium 2012
Post by: mark smyth on October 07, 2012, 09:19:05 PM
I think I'm getting hooked on Alliums especially those flowering now. I bought one at Harrogate autumn show that is still in tight bud. It's so small it would get lost in my garden.

I potted up A. wallichii, a gift from Anne Wright, and was happy to see lots of new roots.
Title: Re: Allium 2012
Post by: mark smyth on October 07, 2012, 09:46:28 PM
The one in tight bud is A. splendens kurilense which Google / Rare Plants says is the same as A. thunbergii
Title: Re: Allium 2012
Post by: TheOnionMan on October 07, 2012, 10:29:22 PM
Mark, this is the same plant, shown by forumist MartinR.  I didn't think it was A virgunculae as I thought that to be a much shorter plant.  I am growing a very similar plant to Martin's, mine is labelled A daghestanicum, interesting mine came from NARGS seed sown in 2001.  Thanks for your help in identifying it.

Diane, when we corresponded I forgot to address the "daghestanicum" issue.  Allium daghestanicum grows like a fine open grass of firm, thread-thin leaves that splay into a low arching mound, then in summer small, loose open sprays of very pale pink flowers, on stems that similarly arch over in graceful manner.  If it is blooming now, even with Europes cool and delayed 2012 season, if it is blooming now, I don't think it's daghestanicum.  Do you have a photo of your plant labeled as daghestanicum?
Title: Re: Allium 2012
Post by: TheOnionMan on October 07, 2012, 10:32:35 PM
The one in tight bud is A. splendens kurilense which Google / Rare Plants says is the same as A. thunbergii

Mark, getting hooked on onions eh?  ;)  They can certainly spice up your life ;D

The name A. splendens kurilense doesn't exist, well, except in horticulture as an invalid combination.  Plants going around under that name are usually A. thunbergii or virgunculae. The name "splendens kurilense" should be adandoned as it has no meaning.
Title: Re: Allium 2012
Post by: Diane Clement on October 07, 2012, 11:13:28 PM
Diane, when we corresponded I forgot to address the "daghestanicum" issue.  Allium daghestanicum grows like a fine open grass of firm, thread-thin leaves that splay into a low arching mound, then in summer small, loose open sprays of very pale pink flowers, on stems that similarly arch over in graceful manner.  If it is blooming now, even with Europes cool and delayed 2012 season, if it is blooming now, I don't think it's daghestanicum.  Do you have a photo of your plant labeled as daghestanicum?

It's sort of going over now, so was at its best flowering in mid September.  I don't think there is anything about it that arches, it's quite upright, very similar to Martin's plant.  I'll try and take a picture tomorrow.
Title: Re: Allium 2012
Post by: fermi de Sousa on October 08, 2012, 08:04:00 AM
Here's the first flowers on Allium drummondii which I got as seed from Kurt Vickery in 2009 (sown May 2010) as A. nuttallii which Mark McD pointed out was a synonym. Actually 2 flower spikes came up in the pot labelled A. drummondii and one came up in the pot labelled A. rosenbachianum! But I think it was just a stray seed as there is another type of foliage in the pot. I hope so anyway!
cheers
fermi
Title: Re: Allium 2012
Post by: Martinr on October 08, 2012, 09:24:29 AM
A close up of the disputed Allium virgunculae. I exhibited it at Autumn South with a question mark on the name and no one present was able to come up with a better idea. Almost all of the pink hue seems to come from the stamens. Whatever the name it is a pretty thing, the flower power being enhanced by umbels of flowers sprouting half way up some stems as well as at the tip.
Title: Re: Allium 2012
Post by: Stephenb on October 21, 2012, 09:20:27 PM

Stephen, as to your small, late-blooming white-in-bud Allium, please show us what it looks like in flower.

This one never really emerged into flower and is unlikely to now. These are the best pictures I got:
Title: Re: Allium 2012
Post by: Stephenb on October 24, 2012, 11:43:46 AM
This picture of Allium rupestre was taken on 1st September. The cool weather has meant that it didn't emerge much further than this.....
Title: Re: Allium 2012
Post by: Paul T on October 24, 2012, 12:22:39 PM
Mark, getting hooked on onions eh?  ;)  They can certainly spice up your life ;D

McMark,

Either spice it up, or bring tears to your eyes.  :P

Martin,

That Allium virgunculae is lovely.  Delicate colour and shape to it.
Title: Re: Allium 2012
Post by: YT on November 12, 2012, 09:32:11 AM
Allium virgunculae 'Hirado White' is an albino and dwarf selection from a wild population in Hirado island. Its pot diameter is 9cm.
Title: Re: Allium 2012
Post by: Maggi Young on November 12, 2012, 09:48:11 AM
Allium virgunculae 'Hirado White' is a albino and dwarf selection from a wild population in Hirado island. Its pot diameter is 9cm.
What an attractive plant -  presents  itself well in  a pot, doesn't it?
Title: Re: Allium 2012
Post by: WimB on November 12, 2012, 12:11:02 PM
Allium virgunculae 'Hirado White' is a albino and dwarf selection from a wild population in Hirado island. Its pot diameter is 9cm.

Very beautiful, Tatsuo!
Title: Re: Allium 2012
Post by: TheOnionMan on November 12, 2012, 12:36:51 PM
Tatsuo, that's a little gem!  I once grew a similar looking dwarf white form which I got from Kazuo Mori back in the 1980s, although sadly I no longer have it.

Two years ago I bought a purple-rose form of Allium virgunculae at a general garden center, it remains dwarf, growing less than 10 cm tall.  This photo in my garden as taken on 10-19-2012.  It is now starting to set seed capsules.
Title: Re: Allium 2012
Post by: YT on November 12, 2012, 02:22:59 PM
Thank you all :) My 'Hirado White' plants stay in that small pot 2 years and still look good.

Mark, your beautiful little allium looks like A. virgunculae var. kiiense by their slightly pendurous flowers. But I cannot say 100% sure that these alliums cross and produce seeds freely as you know ;)
Title: Re: Allium 2012
Post by: TheOnionMan on November 12, 2012, 04:29:06 PM
Thanks Tatsuo, my plant does have flowers that look similar to A. virgunculae v. kiiense, as seen in this link:
http://hanamist.sakura.ne.jp/flower/tansiyo/yuri/kiito.html (http://hanamist.sakura.ne.jp/flower/tansiyo/yuri/kiito.html)

My plants coming from a general nursery, it could also be the result of hybridization too, no way to know, so I will just enjoy this little plant.  :)
Title: Re: Allium 2012
Post by: Wim de Goede on December 18, 2012, 10:48:45 AM
Dear Mark,

I have send you two years ago some bulbs of Allium Cameleon to see what it looks like, when it came in flower you thouht it was species ???? I cannot remember what name you was think of.
please can you tell me the name again . Thank you

Wim
Title: Re: Allium 2012
Post by: TheOnionMan on December 18, 2012, 02:21:56 PM
Hello Wim,

Initially I had narrowed it down to two possibilities, both being closely related Mediterranean species, Allium longanum or A. trifoliatum. Now that the bulbs you kindly sent me have settled in, flowering beautifully this past spring, there is no doubt this is a pink-flowered form of Allium trifoliatum.  In fact, I just did a google image search and found a nursery offering of this, identified as A. trifoliatum.
http://www.suttons.co.uk/Gardening/Flower+Bulbs/All+Bulbs/Allium+Chameleon+10_220980.htm (http://www.suttons.co.uk/Gardening/Flower+Bulbs/All+Bulbs/Allium+Chameleon+10_220980.htm)

Here are two images of this Allium in bloom in my garden, the end of April 2012; it remained in fine flower for weeks. I find it interesting that this species, which sprouts with fresh flush of leaves in autumn and lasting all winter, seems completely hardy here so far.
Title: Re: Allium 2012
Post by: Wim de Goede on December 18, 2012, 06:30:10 PM
Hello mark ,

Thank you for the information it will help me for the trade to Japan and it is nice to see that firms in USA have  it for sale.

Wim
Title: Re: Allium 2012
Post by: pontus on January 20, 2013, 03:35:34 PM
which is the very tall, ball headed dark purple allium in your image?

is it giganteum?

it is interesting to see so many alliums still in bud in early june. Is it obliquum in the far background to the right?

Pontus


Some photo's from today
Title: Re: Allium 2012
Post by: wmel on January 26, 2013, 11:57:19 AM
which is the very tall, ball headed dark purple allium in your image?
is it giganteum?
it is interesting to see so many alliums still in bud in early june. Is it obliquum in the far background to the right?
Pontus

The very tall allium in the first photo is a crossing from allium giganteum.
In the second photo you see the dark purple crossing from giganteum "Ambassador"
To the right you see different allium ampeloprasum seedlings almost starting to flower
Title: Re: Allium 2012
Post by: mark smyth on June 13, 2014, 10:01:02 PM
more likely, a form of A. oleraceum, closely allied and similar to Allium paniculatum, but with bulbils and rather variable in flower color, from light pink, to deeper pinks, to tawny brownish coppery forms

A year and 10 months on the first bulbils have reached flowering size. They are in the green house plunged in a terracotta put and despite watering the plants have chosen to go dormant except for the flower stems
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