Scottish Rock Garden Club Forum
Plant Identification => Plant Identification Questions and Answers => Topic started by: alpinelover on January 03, 2012, 07:59:40 PM
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I bought these Draba named as Draba condensata, several years ago, but I 'm not sure of the name.
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I don't know that foliage but what a delightful little plant. Perfect for a chunk of tufa. :)
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I've also condensata Draba. It looks similar to yours.
Look into my website.
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I don't know that foliage but what a delightful little plant. Perfect for a chunk of tufa. :)
Yes Lesley, it's a great plant in a tufarock.
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I've also condensata Draba. It looks similar to yours.
Look into my website.
Yes, Franz, that's the same plant. Now, I'm sure, many thanks.
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Draba condensata is not a valid name as far as I can find. We get seed with this name donated to the AGS seed exchange every year, but I can not find it any published lists. This is a name I have been trying to resolve for many years - if anyone can help I would be very grateful.
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It is certainly a widely used name.
Might it be connected with this?
Draba daurica f. condensata E.Ekman which Kew gives as a synonym of
Draba glabella Pursh
The record derives from WCSP (in review) which reports it as a synonym with original publication details: Svensk Bot. Tidskr. 24: 286 1930. ( Svensk Botanisk Tidskrift Utgifven af Svenska Botaniska Foreningen. Stockholm )
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After tussling with the name for years, I saw the plant pictured in John Richard's diary - he has featured it in 2008 and 2009:
http://www.alpinegardensociety.net/diaries/Northumberland/+May+/105/ (http://www.alpinegardensociety.net/diaries/Northumberland/+May+/105/)
http://www.alpinegardensociety.net/diaries/Northumberland/+April+/193/ (http://www.alpinegardensociety.net/diaries/Northumberland/+April+/193/)
I then did a bit of research on this name last year. Some of the following information was given me by John.
In Flora Europaea, Draba hirta is a synonym for the high arctic Draba glabella, but the mystery plant is not that as Draba glabella has white flowers. The mystery plant is fairly widely grown, and has been distributed under that name by Josef Jurasek and the Seed Exchanges
The plant in the picture is possibly a Western American or Canadian Rocky plant, similar to D oligosperma, ventosa, exunguiculata, densifolia but is not any of these.
The only botanical reference that has been tracked was a chromosome count from Greenland material, with D. hirta v. condensata quoted as a synonym (Heilborn 1927). So the pictured plant may be a Greenland or Canadian yellow flowered relative of D glabella.
Geoffrey Halliday who is an expert on Greenland Flora had never heard of the epithet condensata at any level for any arctic Draba and there is no such name in the Flora of North America.
The mystery remains unresolved.
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Diane, I love a good mystery! During the workday when I peeked at SRGC Forum, I saw this thread and started doing some research, however, I had to get back to work. ::) For North America, the only Brassicaceae with the same species name is Physaria condensata (accepted by FNA) + synonyms Lesquerella condensata, L. alpina var. condensata, L. alpina ssp. condensata. Not sure if this is the source of a possible mixup with Draba "condensata" but I suspect it is unrelated, but I'll look at some of my old floras tonight.
It is more likely that "condensata" came from Draba daurica f. condensata that Maggi pointed out, and that it became shortened to D. condensata along the way... and who knows, the plant under that name might not have any validity whatsoever nor no relationship to a plant under the old description of Draba daurica f. condensata, just a well-established horticultural misnomer/mis-ID that lives on in perpetuity, similar to the way the NOT-Allium-loratum is well established in the large commercial bulb trade, while the true dwarf white Allium loratum lives in quiet alpine solitude away from any bulb farms.
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Diane, I love a good mystery!
Pleased to have your input, Mark.
For North America, the only Brassicaceae with the same species name is Physaria condensata (accepted by FNA) + synonyms Lesquerella condensata, L. alpina var. condensata, L. alpina ssp. condensata. Not sure if this is the source of a possible mixup with Draba "condensata" but I suspect it is unrelated, but I'll look at some of my old floras tonight.
I've already been down this route, and they are not connected.
It is more likely that "condensata" came from Draba daurica f. condensata that Maggi pointed out, and that it became shortened to D. condensata along the way... and who knows, the plant under that name might not have any validity whatsoever nor no relationship to a plant under the old description of Draba daurica f. condensata, just a well-established horticultural misnomer/mis-ID that lives on in perpetuity,
Yes, the D daurica route leads us back to D glabella, a possible solution, except there is no publication of a yellow flowered form of this species. I'm a bit more inclined to your well-established horticultural misnomer ...
Now if you like a good mystery, you might like to start on Townsendia hirsuta - what is going around under this invalid (unpublished) name??
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Now if you like a good mystery, you might like to start on Townsendia hirsuta - what is going around under this invalid (unpublished) name??
Most likely another misapplied or concocted name of no validity, only existing in horticulture. There it is, showing up on seed exchange lists, for sale from commercial seed companies, and referenced and pictured on plant-related web sites. I found the following link depicting Townsendia "hirsuta", the photo is surely an Aster and not a Townsendia:
http://www.filuna.cz/picture/Filunafotky/Mate%E8nice/Townsendia%20hirsuta.jpg
I'm happy to be proven wrong.
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Draba condensata photographed on Mt Evans, Colorado might be the plant.
http://www.photosbygerhard.com/detail.php?offset=16&class=Plants
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Please refer to the preceding entries re. "Draba condensata":
Draba condensata is not a valid name as far as I can find. We get seed with this name donated to the AGS seed exchange every year, but I can not find it any published lists. This is a name I have been trying to resolve for many years - if anyone can help I would be very grateful.
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Draba condensata photographed on Mt Evans, Colorado might be the plant.
http://www.photosbygerhard.com/detail.php?offset=16&class=Plants
The Photos by Gerhard has made a mistake, there is nothing by the name of Draba condensata on Mt. Evans, nor in Colorado, nor anywhere in North America. However, this person's post with a misidentification is very effective at perpetuating the mistake.
For a quick view of what Draba species exist in North America, use the following link. You can familiarize yourself which state is Colorado in the map, but click on a species, then mouse over the filled in States and it will tell you what State it is. Once you know which State is Colorado, at a glance you can find a list of species of Draba that live in Colorado.
USDA list of Draba species with distribution maps:
http://plants.usda.gov/java/profile?symbol=DRABA
Lori, I will be starting a similar thread on NARGS about fictitious plants or mislabeled plants that only exist in Horticulture :D
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The Photos by Gerhard has made a mistake, there is nothing by the name of Draba condensata on Mt. Evans, nor in Colorado, nor anywhere in North America. However, this person's post with a misidentification is very effective at perpetuating the mistake.
The picture may be the same as the mystery plant. So now the big question, is - what is the correct name of the plant pictured in the link? Panyoti will surely know, if, indeed the picture was taken on Mount Evans, this bit is probably correct.
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I have Facebook contacted Panayoti, will report back on what species he thinks that Mt. Evans one is... several species grow up there.
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I have Facebook contacted Panayoti, will report back on what species he thinks that Mt. Evans one is... several species grow up there.
Very up to date of you, McMark.... I was satisfied with an email! ;D (Since I'm fresh out of carrier pigeons)
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Thought it might be the quickest way to get to PK, as he's a FB fanatic. He hasn't responded to my query yet, he might have missed it, although we "facebooked" on some other threads in the interim.
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He must be off gallivanting... no reply to my email either.... he is a frightful gadabout.... who knows where he might be! :)
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Another draba. I bought this one, named as Draba cappadocica. I'm not sure of it.
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Very nice rock, Frankie 8)
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Hi,
Now that we are into Drabas, I have a Draba, acquired 20 years ago but I don't know the name. I personally think it's Draba brunifolia ssp. olympica, but I'm not sure. Any Draba experts ?
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Another draba. I bought this one, named as Draba cappadocica. I'm not sure of it.
Hi Alpinelover,
According to me your Draba looks more like Draba aizoides, it's certainly not Draba cappadocica. Draba cappadocica has more a grey leaf. ;)
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I have a plant labelled D. sphaerallea and a search has also uncovered reference to D. sphaeralea and D. sphaeralcea but I can find no valid reference to any of these. Are they all corruptions of D. sphaeroides? I will get a picture when the flowers open if 1) the caterpillar I haven't found yet leaves any flower stems intact and 2) I'm physically capable of holding a camera in two hands when they open (don't ask!). It was going to be my first show plant of the year till the caterpillar got it >:(
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A mis-written Draba sphaerula perhaps?
Caterpillars never care what the plant is, do they?... only that you want to preserve it and they want to eat it. :'(