Scottish Rock Garden Club Forum
Bulbs => Crocus => Topic started by: Thomas Huber on December 04, 2006, 10:21:51 AM
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4th of December and nobody wants to open a new thread ?
So it's my turn:
Lots of spring flowering plants in the garden in this warm winter - hope they will survive
when the "real" winter comes.
Crocus korolkowii "Mountains Glory"
C. imperati ssp suaveolens
Hope you will forgive me, if I show something different than Crocus in this thread, but
I think Ipheion "Rolf Fiedler" is a wonderful combination with the yellow korolkowii's in the background.
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Thanks Hans Joschko for helping to identify my Ipheion as a blue form
of Ipheion uniflorum. He told me, that Ipheion "Rolf Fiedler" is a form of
Ipheion penduculata and would not survive our winters!
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Looks like an early spring in Germany .... roll on the summer!!
Ipheon Rolf Fiedler is to my mind the best blue ipheon. It does not thrive outside here but is very vigorous under glass ..... don't plant it in a bulb frame where it becomes a weed!
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Forgive me that I don't mention the "C" word here but a question about I. `Rolf Feidler.' Mine grows very well outside and it didn't occur to me to think of it as other than quite hardey. However, it only gives a very few flowers. Is that perhaps because our summers may not be hot enough? Or why?
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And your Crocus korolkowii pics are beautiful Thomas. I bought 3 forms from Marcus last autumn and they've done really well, flowering for 2 full months.
Did he tell you that he can't export crocuses this year because his MAF inspector found some yellowing leaves which were subsequently identified as a potyvirus. So no crocuses to NZ at least. A shame as he has so many that I DON't have, and all the ones I imported last season did so well.
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Hi Maggi, yes it IS definitely a very long time since I visited you and Ian in Aberdeen.
Tony, many thanks for your information. I did not know there were any lilac hadriaticus with yellow throat in the Taigetos. I also visited Monemvasia this year, which is situated south of the Parnon Mts. in the Malea Peninsula. There was a display board with information about the native flora and Crocus hadriaticus ssp. parnonicus was said to occur on the summit of this small island but it was probably too early. According to "Wild Flowers of Greece, the Peloponnese" ssp. parnonicus also occurs south of Monemvasia.
Here are a few more croci from southern Greece for you all:
-Crocus niveus in the Mani Peninsula, southern Peloponnesenear near its upper altitudinal limit (Ocotber 3rd 2006);
-Crocus robertianus in open woodland, southern Pindus, October 21st 2005;
-Crocus hadriaticus ssp. parnassicus, just west of Delphi, mid-October 2005.
Regards,
Kees Jan van Zwienen, Netherlands
Sorry, Crocus niveus was photographed at 1000m, not 100m! I did not find any crocuses in flower at lower altitude. By the way, the flowering season of autumn crocuses in Greece seems to start earlier up in the mountains. Perhaps due to cooler temperatures or a earlier rain?
Kees Jan
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Hi all
I suppose there's a first time for everything: will it work, I ask myself?
Thought you'd like to see some images of crocus taken in SW Turkey in early December. We arrived after some days of rain and floods to wall to wall sunshine but, boy was it cold. Firstly, pics are of Crocus mathewi; these grow in the stony turf areas at the locality shown at c 2000m.
Dave
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Welcome, Dave, great to have you join the forum after we have so enjoyed your essays in the articles section of the main site. You haven't quite cracked the image posting, I've tidied it for you... I sugesst you have a browse in the info threads... there's a lot of stuff there to iron out posting wrinkles!
Cheers,
Maggi
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Crocus mathewi is so perfect.. the forms with the darkest throats andthe whitest flowers... just the best of the best!
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Thanks, Maggi, I'll just have to try again. Here goes.
This time some pics of Crocus cancellatus ssp lycius, a very common little plant scattered throughout much of Antalya region, occurring from sea level to well over 2000 m. Like C mathewi, seems to like growing as single bulbs dotted around, never in huge numbers; saw almost no clumps at all. C c ssp lycius sems highly variable, as this selections shows. The intensely divided styles are amazing.....
Dave
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And a final offering for tonight, is in my humble opinion a little gem: Crocus wattiorum, apparantly a very localised endemic, typically growing in crevices in limestone or on scree.
Dave
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Well, C. wattiorum is something different, isn't it? Fantastic contrast of style colour and black anthers... and that outer feathering to echo the anther colour is lovely.
Remind me again, what is it that is so exciting about snaw dreeps? ::)
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Hi Dave!
Your crocus are wonderfull nothing to say more. Are they flowering this times in Antalya? If you can tell
exacty local name where you have seen them I would be happy. I realy admired them.
I wish to see more!!!!!!
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My goodness. What an entrance Dave! Fabulous to see these crocuses in the wild. I'll be looking out for Crocus wattiorum, as it looks quite different. Stirling group meeting on Wednesday 6 Dec at 7.30 p.m. (check web site, but note it is in the Allan Centre in Fountain Road, Bridge of Allan, not Chalmers Church Hall).
Thanks for this note about Stirling Group meeting, Anthony, we'll get the details changed. M
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Dave,
Beautiful!! I haven't come across the C. wattiorum before, but it definitely looks well worthwhile growing. Must keep an eye out for it. The C. mathewii with the pure white petals and dark throat (with the beautiful orange style to contrast) is just SO striking. Such beautiful pics of a beautiful flower!! Well done!!
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Dave
Your C. wattiorum is spectacular. If I could design a Crocus it would be very similar to that.
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Brilliant Dave - for those of us confined to base for our various reasons it is great to be able to see some of our favourite plants in their natural setting.
Where are you going next? :)
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Thanks guys, pleased to see that you enjoyed the images, which I am pleased to share.... a few more to follow in due course, including a bit of a puzzle....... Am still thinking of the next trip......
I agree with you that C wattiorum is fabulous. According to the article by helmut Kerndorff and EWrich Pasche in the AGS Bulletin for Dec 1996, it was found in 1986 by Peter and Penny Watt and named by Brian Mathew as C biflorus ssp wattiorum. I understand that it has since been raised to specific level. I don't know whether it is in cultivation, though I'd be surprised if some of the croconuts don't have it. Anyone have more info? It would be great to obtain some seed - (best way of introducing a plant in my view).
Ibrahim: I greatly enjoyed my trip to Antalya, my first, but hopefully not the last, visit to your country. Yes, these crocus were all in flower during the first week in November this year. I hope you'll forgive me if I don't give the locality details for C wattiorum over the web for all to see. Some of you will recall that when C mathewi was first described, the localities were made available, shortly after which the whole site was decimated by collectors. i would hate this to happen to this beauty! Suffice to say that this is from a previously known locality. Having said this, the population looked to be a viable one with significant numbers in the small area we examined. Much of the area adjacent is very difficult to access, but my guess is that the crocus is all over it. This is in stark contrast to some of the localities in which we saw C mathewi where we only saw small numbers.
Regards
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Dave - your info on C wattiorum is all correct. I will try to locate some more details for you. I am not certain if anyone has it in cultivation at present but I know one or two people who have had it .... but some of the alleged material turned out to be a different taxa. Your thoughts on seed are spot-on. Are you going back in the spring? I also applaud your decision not to share exact location details too widely.
Who did you go with? Was this an organised tour or a private visit?
Are you a Crocus Group member? If so you will have access to the 2006 Bulletin which has an article by Peter & Penny Watt about some of their travels in Anatolia - if not let me know and I will copy it to you.
Looking forward to the next batch of pics :)
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A few more crocus from Antalya......
One of the sites visited was said to show 'white' Crocus mathewi, as below. The small, scattered population in rough bare limestone and thin rocky turf terrain were very much the same:
[attachthumb=1]
[attachthumb=2]
[attachthumb=3]
None of these appeared to have any of the purple present in the other populations. Is this the white form of Crocus mathewi? or.......
To complicate matters, just a few kms along the road we saw the following with a few good clumps:
[attachthumb=4]
[attachthumb=5]
This looks likely to be C asumaniae.
Any thoughts appreciated.
Dave
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Hi Tony, any added info most welcome. No immediate plans to go back this next spring. But I guess the same area will be very rich in flowers. The trip was an organised one, with Green Tours. Excellent trip, well organised and to well researched localities - one of the tour leaders was Basak Gunar, botanist daughter of Adil. I heartily recommend their trips. Sad to say that I'm not a member of the Crocus group... perhaps I ought to join. Have now had two great autumn hols to crocus country (last year to Pelops.... absolutely fabulous) and these have fired my enthusiasm for the genus!!
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The asumaniae/mathewii debate can only be resolved by more extensive field studies (and possibly only by genetic analysis) but your pictures do show that there is considerable variation in the wild between the two 'fixed points' that these two taxa represent. Thanks for sharing them with us.
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Sorry for the late reply - I took a day of yesterday!
Tony, I found your number on my business-phone, don't you have my private number?
Dave, your photos are absolutely glorious!!!
Many thanks for sharing them with us!
I only know about two people who have C. wattiorum, but unfortunately not me :'(
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I'm attaching some Crocus cancellatus ssp. mazziaricus pics from Greece. This is a very common and quite variable plant in many of the Greek mountains. The Mount Chelmos pictures were made in late September 2006. This seems to be one of the earlier Greek crocuses to flower in autumn. All cancellatus mazziaricus that I found on Chelmos had white flowers. Last year I found some very nice blue forms in the foothills of Mount Pilion, eastern Greece.
Kees Jan van Zwienen
Netherlands
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Dave: I get your feel very well. I did'nt imagine that It left so little part on the wild. I have seen on the net. Yasemin Konuralp also was making trip to wildflower who lives in Antalya. She has also same wattiorum in her photo album. It might be same area!
best regards.
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Ibrahim - I really do hope you manage to see C wattiorum in due course.
By way of a final offering on crocus from my trip, below are some images from another locality with C mathewi. Again not a large population and this time growing in a deep deposit of red earth (terra rossa). The first is a typical dark throated form. The second has a pale throat, but note the colour of the style. The third image seems to be more like C pallassii.... (this was the only flower of this type seen on that day. There were also some plants of C cancellatus ssp lycius in the same locality.
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Dave, your 'pallasii' has a very long style. I'd put it closer to asumaniae although the strong lilac colouring is not typical. And then we head back into the asumaniae/mathewii problem!
The image below is of a pot of crocus raised from seed received as .... mathewii.
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Just caught up with this thread again marvellous piccies everyone and particularly great to see those in the wild.
Also I love that Wattiorum Dave. Is it in cultivation as I have never heard of it before? Does anyone know its pedigree?
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damnations. I'm not 'watching' this thread. Only just realised it exists.
Fabulous photos Dave. By coincidence I bought the AGS Bulletin for Dec 1996 yesterday for 50 newps
Maggi just wait until January 30th and I'll change your mind
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I know someone who goes to Greece every autumn and never mentions Crocus
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Mark, how could you possibly have missed this super thread, with Tony, Thomas et al posting daily? After the Old Forum, surely you realized there would be a crocus thread set up immediately. Now, I can almost imagine that someone could miss a snowdrop thread.....
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I know and I hang my head in shame. It was while at work that I noticed a new post today and the contents took me by surprise
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Some more Crocus from my garden:
Crocus laevigatus, creme Form, ex TG:
[attachthumb=1]
Crocus sieberi "Bowles White" - always the first in spring, but this year somewhat toooo early:
[attachthumb=2]
Crocus imperati ssp suaveolens has become a nice clump in the last 2 weeks:
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my 'Bowles White ' are also up but a few days before they open. Lots of other Crocus are pushing through out in the garden
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Hello friends,
a little bit spring in december
Crocus aerius
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Hello, Dirk, good to have you join us again in the new forum! I see that your Crocus have lost their calendar, also, like Thomas' !
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I think the Crocus are reading the 'Flowering now in the Southern Hemisphere' thread and getting all confused.
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that cream lavaegatus is stunning and looks like something I already grow. Maybe I have it labelled wrong. I'll know when I get home
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how stoopid am I. It is imperati suaveolens that I have.
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Thanks Maggi,
here a other spring species,
Crocus reticulatus ssp.hittiticus
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I don't think the crocuses are THAT confused John. December is maybe the ONLY month, except Nov and Jan depending on the weather, when we don't have a single crocus in flower.
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Just me getting confused then Lesley. :'(
My fish are also getting confused, trying to climb the Cherry Tree.
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:D
They'll be disapointed John not finding any cherries in the tree !
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Udo could you edit and repost that lovely Crocus? I would like to see a larger/closer image. Thanks
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Very clever fish John!
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here is my Crocus 'Bowles White' slightly open in todays sunshine. Other corms are just poking throughThe fog has finally lifted or blown away by this mornings breeze.
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Now, THERE'S a white flower that is really yummy! Can't beat a Bowles white, can you really? Just a perfect shot, Mark, incredible for December. Hope the fog is clearing all over the UK.... got a chum flying to Liverpool for Christmas who's worried her flight will be cancelled at the last minute... she's flying on Christmas Eve, mid-afternoon May need to make the festive beans on toast stretch to another helping!
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I like all white Crocus. I should say for those not familiar with this Crocus the 'pink' is caused by the low sun
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A Christmas crocus!
Below is Crocus biflorus ssp melantherus. Usually an autumn flowering plant this form was collected as seed from a spring flowering population. This is its 2nd flowering in 2006 .. the first one was in February! Mind you if the current cold snap had come 10 days earlier this flower would have held off until the turn of the year.
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in Little Britain stylee - I want that one!
Very nice. So good I feel I could touch it
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I hope you don't do the same when you get things Mark.
Tony, that's a real Christmas cracker.
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Having a good look around pots of spring flowering Crocus shows them all above ground. In the garden are a few late speciosus and ochroleucus in pots